Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: David_Elvins on February 23, 2009, 07:27:50 PM
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I saw this recent photo of Barnbougle Dunes. Must admit I have no other information on this feature (it may have always bee there and I just missed it, or it may just have grown a bit). Before noticing this feature my opinion was that Barnbougle was closer to perfect than any other golf course that I had seen. This doesn't help its cause IMO.
Is this thread an over-reaction? What are others thoughts?
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z17/Digby_Jeffrey/barnbougle.jpg)
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I don't like it, and don't remember it from building the course. Judging from the photo, it's in a fairway bunker on the 15th hole.
The only reason to have something like that is to minimize sand from blowing out of the bunkers.
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Sorry for that one...
Me and George Waters actually planted that thing originally (I don't know if they had to replant it during grassing)...
It is actually that thing that we were planting on the picture on page 117 of Golf Architecture a worldwide perspective volume 3...
Funny isn't it. I think it comes down to my definition of a bunker as a hazard. Maybe 1 ball out of a thousand balls going in the bunker will be in trouble because of this... but this little feature will require player to respect the bunker a little more.
As for the aesthetic, maybe it would look better if there was a little more wild grasses on the edges of that bunker... but maybe it would strike as much and thus making me and george less famous... and that, that is really important ;D
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Sorry Tom for that one...
hell, I even just mentionned the piece of conviction... I'm in trouble. I'll have to retire, call it the worst mistake in the history of golf architecture to save Barnbougle Dunes going down as a 0 ;D ;D
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Yeah, it's in the middle of the bunker in the middle of the fairway at 15th... so much for a straight drive...
keep this picture as archives, round up might be coming over it soon then
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David,
I'd say whack it with that rake, make sure it's dead, and drag it out of there.
On the other hand, the somewhat similar features in the hillside bunker(upper left) don't look bad.
Is that because the hill is convex vs. the concave bunker, or just that it's the type of growth you see on grassy dunes?
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Here's how to start a debate...
There is stuff like that at Merion... have fun now
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Here's how to start a debate...
There is stuff like that at Merion... have fun now
That was my first reaction/ observation.....for the record, I don't particularly like the look, let alone function, at Merion, either.
Joe
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David,
I'd say whack it with that rake, make sure it's dead, and drag it out of there.
On the other hand, the somewhat similar features in the hillside bunker(upper left) don't look bad.
Is that because the hill is convex vs. the concave bunker, or just that it's the type of growth you see on grassy dunes?
This made me laugh out loud!
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I don't have an issue with this as long as it fits in with the natural setting and is something you might find out there. Assuming it is, or close to it, it is simply part of the course you have to deal with. You could always take an unplayable lie if you had to.
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Does anyone else speak Philippe? I honestly had no idea what he was saying in his first three posts along this thread. Is it Mauri Kudzu or something? Tasmanian whacky weed? Can you smoke it? I think it is too much, especially given the craggy nature of the bunker, which seems penalty enough. I don't like it in the hillside bunker, not neither.
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I'm curious...these appear to be all over the place.
I circled one on the top left corner as well. Is the one in the original picture being singled out or are all of these being summarily reprimanded.
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I'm curious...these appear to be all over the place.
That's the Trouble with Tribbles
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/STTroubleTrib.jpg)
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I'm curious...these appear to be all over the place.
That's the Trouble with Tribbles
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/STTroubleTrib.jpg)
Ha ha ha..great call. I remember that episode!! ;D
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Is that Shatner, Chris Kattan or their love child?
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In my opinion, they are bad..whether there is 1 or 10 or 100...design the bunker to be penalty-enough...the clumps of pampas look terrible ....if I need to take a drop, might as well make it a lake.
Bart
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Good point about the pampas. All we need is El Pato or El Gato on a steed with a bolero and we'll be all set.
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Sorry for that one...
It is actually that thing that we were planting on the picture on page 117 of Golf Architecture a worldwide perspective volume 3...
Not much better evidence than that picture.
I am not a fan of things in a bunker (or anywhere) that make it impossible to hit some sort of shot. My view is not so much based on fairness as it is on lack of fun. I've played in some stroke play events where guys have had to make the walk of shame because of things like that either in or on the edge of bunkers.
Of course many of the best courses in the world have such features - Pine Valley, Royal Melboune and apparently Merion.
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I like it...a lot.
Of course, I also believe snakes, gila monsters, fiery flames of hades, toxic waste, nuclear radiation, and wolverines are all fair game to include inside a bunker HAZARD, so maybe it's just me.
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...and if you look into the bunker from the opposite direction, you see this.....
(http://images.hollywoodupclose.com/images/4/10/53/27/37/10532737_349.jpg)
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Well done Joe, absolutely hilarious.
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I don't much like it. I too would rather the bunker itself be the penalty. I also don't much like the look of it, though that probably means that if more of that crap were in the bunkers then it would look alright. All that said, it is what it is, a pretty minor detail. The far more important questions concern the bunker itself. Is it well placed? Does it value to the hole? Was there an alternative natural hazard that could have been used to accomplish the designer's goal? Is the bunker a real penalty?
Ciao
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I like it...a lot.
Of course, I also believe snakes, gila monsters, fiery flames of hades, toxic waste, nuclear radiation, and wolverines are all fair game to include inside a bunker HAZARD......
...........so maybe it's just me.
So far, so good ;)
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Ronald, my language is Franglish... sorry, my writing was off a bit...
The thing is, I wrote my first comment before seeing Tom Doak comment, then I read Tom comments 2 seconds later and post the second comment.
Baically, what I'm saying is, I am, with Goerge Watters, responsible for putting that clump of grass there. Which is what I'm sorry (jokingly) about even more now that I know Tom don't like it.
The picture in Golf Architecture is me and George planting that clump of grass.
One thing, there was also a mini devil's A**hole in the next bunker that dissapeared during construction... that was severe... very severe.
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I bet I could easily make it a movable obstruction. ;D
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I like this feature alot, but not in this particular bunker.
Does anyone think these would be better in a larger waste-type bunker in a fairway? That way they could be a hazard within a harzard?
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I like this feature alot, but not in this particular bunker.
Does anyone think these would be better in a larger waste-type bunker in a fairway? That way they could be a hazard within a harzard?
I agree Pat. I don't like it in that centreline bunker, but think the ones in the hill bunker top left work well.
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I like this feature alot, but not in this particular bunker.
Does anyone think these would be better in a larger waste-type bunker in a fairway? That way they could be a hazard within a harzard?
Pat,
Why would you want a double hazard?
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I like this feature alot, but not in this particular bunker.
Does anyone think these would be better in a larger waste-type bunker in a fairway? That way they could be a hazard within a harzard?
Pat,
Why would you want a double hazard?
I wouldn't call it a hazard any more than I would an obsticle, which I think works well in a more vast area and further away from the green. That way its less of a hazard.
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If the course is essentially "natural" then this appears out of place because it is clearly in play and in a bunker that is "maintained".
The furball in the top left of the picture actually looks "natural" in its surrounds due to the waste bunker vibe.
Man, that thing is ooooo-gly. Someone grab it by the hair and put it out of its misery!!!!
I think if I encountered it after flying 6k miles to Tas, it would meet a quick death via my putter.
Cue the scene from Office Space where they destroy the copier . . .
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Dave.
It was not built as it now appears - as an isolated island in the bunker.
What has happened over time is the wind blew out the edge of that bunker, the nose collapsed and they have just cut it through and left the island.
I agree it does not look good - and it won't be there forever.
It is on the same line as the left hand greenside bunkers at 14 that went from being two feet deep to about eight inside a year of the course opening. That bunker has been fixed and they can now manage the problem.