Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: TEPaul on November 21, 2008, 11:15:14 PM
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I have about a ten acre field next to the barn/office here on the farm. I was just eyeing it the other day and I realized I could design a homemade course that would basically be a target course (putting would be a bit raw and tough). I could make hazards out of high grass shapes and I could make maybe 6-9 target greens. No seeding or sodding, just mowing out fairway shapes and high grass hazards in various arrangements.
If I didn't like it I could redesign it in about a month with the tractor and lawn mower! ;)
It would probably be something like golf around 1800.
Would you do it if you were me? ???
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Well it wouldn't really be a course on 10 acres, correct?
It would be a really fun and cool practice facility, no?
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Tom, Build it and they will come! I would love to have another reason to come and hack it around Philly. ;D In all seriousness this is a great idea-wonderful opportunity to do your own thing. Plus a great cocktail setting with a few short irons amongst friends. You could even get some hickories and play as it was meant to be. Good Luck, Jack
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At my high school graduation we mowed a "green" in the corner of the yard, creating about a 100 yard downhill shot. There were trees/woods behind the green on both sides and wide open spaces in front--not a bad little hole really as if one wanted to get it close you had to flirt with the hazards behind.
I also occasionally put the one hole in other spots and created tees to play to it. I enjoyed it and it was a good way to learn some different shots. We had a few acres that were mowed, so there were quite a few little holes that could be played with a wedge.
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"Well it wouldn't really be a course on 10 acres, correct?
It would be a really fun and cool practice facility, no?"
Chipperino:
I take that as an insult and a direct challenge. I cannot talk about it right now but I do know as a absolute fact that in the not too distance future Tiger Woods is going to be in the neighborhood and if he breaks 70 on my homemade course I'm going to be really pissed and I'll be forced to pull out all the stops and seriously "Tiger Proof" it. Among other architecture, maintenance and set-up defenses I might be forced to take the greens down to 1 on the stimpmeter!
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TE - I'm not sure this is what you have in mind, but how about one hole with a ten-acre-wide fairway and one massive double green, the only expense being a giant portable wind machine that could change the hole's playing characteristics daily, or even hourly....
Peter
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Years ago my dad had about twenty acres of land with pond and stream. I built about five holes. The longest being about 300 yards. I cut fairways and greens where I hit lob shots. It was great fun and my young son and I would play on it for hours. Go for it. You have nothing to lose. Have you thought about the price of greens fees?
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A wind machine?
I don't know about that. Has anyone seen one at Home Depot?
How about this Peter? I've got enough space in that field where Tiger could land his Gulfstream VI. How about if he just got his pilots to turn it around backwards, put on the parking brake and floor it? That should give us all the wind we need. If we want a different challenge they could taxi the GVI to the other end of the property and put on the parking brake and floor it again.
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A wind machine?
I don't know about that. Has anyone seen one at Home Depot?
I raised one. His name is Curtis. A gosh awful sounding wind it is at that....
Joe
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Why not two greens at either end and multiple tees?
By the way, I build a green with sod wall bunker when I was around 15 or 16. I had three tees. My Dad throught it was funny but encourages me and Ikept it cut as tight as I could. There was nothing over 100 yards but I used to walk out to the tees and play shots back into the central green and finish them all out. You couldn't putt, unless I scalped it all down for my buddies to play, but I had a flag and cup and would play to a white circle around the cup.
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It is a fantabularific idea!
I mentioned this on another thread, but my brother and I play 1800's golf (I described it as "nuclear winter" golf) in the warm-weather months at his house. He also has about 10 acres, with a log barn, cabin, bunkhouse and his own house. Of course he has a couple of forested areas surrounded by open meadow and gardens so it is a fairly tight course. The grass in the open areas is not all mown regularly, so the further method of tiger-proofing he uses is to keep the fairways about 10-20 feet wide. Talk about the designer taking driver out of your hands ;).
I wonder (perhaps this thread will answer my question) whether golf would have survived past it's infancy if the folks on this board would have been the one's responsible for playing it and passing it on. Obviously in your case Tom, the answer is a resounding yes :D. Mr. 1-on-the-stimpmeter.
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List the New England golf courses of the following architects:
Tom Doak: none
Mike and Dylan Sweeney: The Gammy Club !!
My son and I laid out a 5 hole course in Stamford CT the hometown of world famous golf club architect Tom Doak. My son was much cheaper than Doak. The Gammy Club has a 5 person membership and we do have an artisan membership of local neighborhood kids who watch the place during the week.
We are especially proud of the Par 4 fourth hole a tribute hole to the Tillinghast Barn Hole at Five Farms. The course features New England rock outcroppings, original horse barn, native grasses and is the defacto standard for minimalism. It could use a little tree work on the second hole and the greens are a little rough, but we think this gives the course and club their Yankee feel.
(http://watervilleresearch.squarespace.com/storage/other-stuff/GoogleEarth_Image.jpg)
A few GCAers including Historian Moore, World Traveler Huntley and Long Ball Hitting Loh have been on and walked the property. However, none have been granted playing rights to the exclusive grounds.
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Great idea. Could you incorporate that fascinating old piano of yours as an unusual hazard somewhere. Get behind it and you have to play a perfect Liszt Transcendental Study before you are allowed to move on....
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Tom
Go for it as long as the land is suitable and will give you a challenging course. Don’t forget that a six hole course will work well, and if fussy you could add additional Tees to perhaps give you 6 holes, 12 Tees.
My father had a small putting green at the very bottom of our garden when I was around 11-12 years old. Not enough area for a small course but adequate for a 9 hole putting green with a few lumps and bumps.
PS May see one problem, cart track maybe a NO-NO, but for those who need assistance in getting around what about using what this guys has. Single seater mobile Golf bag.
(http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p421/Melvyn_Hunter/DeluxSingleSeaterUKCart.jpg)
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Mike S. you and your boy pass the golf survival test. Well done!
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Not to hurt your feelings but plant a vineyard and get an artificial putting green for your living room....you would like it more..... ;D
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8) How about a 9 hole par three course? Given your reported loss of distance off the tee, build it to your strength.. while you have it under control..
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Not only would I build it, I would be unable to not build it.
When I was a kid, I laid out a course over the crushed culm surface in and around an anthracite coal breaker across the street from my house.
(http://www.northeast.railfan.net/captclint/gravity_slope.jpg)
It wasn't ideal terrain for golf, and the jagged coal would scuff up the balls pretty quick, but most of the fun was in conceptualizng the holes.
Too bad they didn't play quite as well as I imagined.
Actually, I just found an artist's charcoal drawing of the exact Coal Breaker that was across the street from my house.
Please excuse me while I have a nostalgic moment, as that patch of culm between the street and the breaker of about 150 yards was indeed also our baseball field.
Balls that hit the breaker in the air were home runs, and balls that went down the mine shaft were ground rule doubles, and often the end of the game unless someone could squeeze in and retrieve it.
(http://www.fbartcreations.com/Images_Large/CM_ace.jpg)
My older brother still has a visible piece of coal embedded under the skin in his knee from sliding into second base.
You should have seen the night that breaker burned to the ground...some kid reportedly sent a flaming arrow into it one night. I never saw anything burn so big and bright and my dad spent the night hosing our roof as huge chunks of blazing timbers fell from the sky.
Charred embers were found as far as ten blocks uphill north of the fire.
Yeah...I'd build it Tom.
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When I was 12, I made a par 3 hole in a lot across the street. Dug out bunkers, asked the local club for a hole and flag, and did the best I could with nothing. I guess that is when this passion really started. I say go for it...it should be a lot of fun.
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Steve, Bryon, Mike C., Melvyn, Mark....Pass
Mike Y...FAIL!
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YES!!! Of course build it. Buy some hickories and travel back in time. I think it would very cool!
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TE - the "wind" machine idea was meant only to forestall Patrick's inevitable reference to wind :)
Otherwise, I'm with everyone else on this one - your grand experiment would be great (you could even channel the spirit of Behr....)
Peter
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I definitely would, it's the whole reason I got interested in golf course architecture in the first place.
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Tom,
The real question is....can you get it finished by 12/17?? A few cars around the perimeter for lights and we got us a game!
Ray
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I think you just have a fixation for mowing your property, Tom. You like to ride your mower and have a few nips and see how many interesting mowing patterns you can create... ::)
Here are some ideas for maintenance...
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/98/267332697_7f64e76057.jpg)
with aeration included:
(http://www.gadgetgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/mow-aerator-installed.jpg)
exercise included:
(http://cyberfoo.com/media/1/20060514-ATT00010.jpg)
For when the Hillbilly tour is in town:
(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/curioustoe/redneck_lawn_mowing.jpg)
for when you hold the Hell's Angels cup:
(http://www.ridingmower.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/john-deere-chopper-lawn-mower-300x245.jpg)
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"You should have seen the night that breaker burned to the ground...some kid reportedly sent a flaming arrow into it one night."
Yeah Right! Nice excuse, Cirba. It sounds just about like what I told the police one time when I was a kid after me and a friend burned down an entire block of apartment buildings in Daytona Beach while we were playing with matches in a small hayfield next to them.
Police:
"Did you kids see what happened here?"
Me and my friend:
"Yes, officers, we saw some kid send a flaming arrow right into the hay field that used to be next to those apartment buildings that used to be there about an hour ago."
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David, Peter, George, and Ray (and others I am sure I am missing)...Pass. Golf would survive your ombudsmanship.
RJ, I shudder to think what golf would look like today given your seriously weird sense of humor ;).
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HOUSTON, We have a problem!
I've been very encouraged by your cards and letters and posts. At first I was kidding but you guys got me into it for next year.
The problem is, technically that ten acre field belongs to me sister even though I've always considered that to be nothing more than a trivial deed-kind-of-thing. I told her I was going to design a golf course on it and she said---"No Way Jose!"
You see, my sister is basically an ultra naturalist and she wants birds to nest in that field so she's decided to only cut it once a year.
Do not lose heart though. I HAVE A PLAN and I'll need your help, OK? I want you to all come out here next spring and together we will commit total genocide on every damn bird in Willistown Township! We will burn down all their neighborhoods, all their upscale homes, all their apartments, all their shopping malls and restaurants, everything. I don't want an avian trace left in the vicinity! If we go about it correctly it shouldn't be much of a problem. I was in the US Marine Corps and I watched the Recon Marines at work. I'll make the plan and you help me carry it out. I want you all dressed in about the same basic uniform Bill Murray had on in Caddie Shack (by the way there are at least a dozen ground hog holes in that field). That's not asking too much, is it?
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NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! How could she?!?!?!? :'(
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I'm with your sister. Bluebirds need that 10 acres more than you need another place to whack it.
Here is a little ditty to listen to while drinking way your pain at the loss of the 10 acre field of dreams. :'( :-\ ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4mlUaCW_L8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4mlUaCW_L8)
or, maybe more inline with our era... 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4UFQwCXxRQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4UFQwCXxRQ)
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Tom:
There is a web site dedicated to this:
http://www.pasturegolf.com/
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I'm with you RJ---the birds win!
Too bad though, yesterday I designed about half of it. It coulda had about six greens and could've played about 18 ways. Actually it's 13 acres.
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TE Paul,
The most amazing thing I find about this question is that after over 33,000 posts you still have a farm.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! My advice would be to play your local course and enjoy your friends there. A course at your farm would require too much work to mantian.
Anthony
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Tom: Start mowing, put up a bird feeder, and tell your sister she can play for free. :)
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Tom Paul,
After you build it, will you play it or just be happy to walk it?
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I posted this a couple of years ago. It's from the book titled 'The Golfer's Home Companion'. I don't know if it will fit on your 10 acres, but it is fun to look at.
Layout of the McAlister 2-Hole Ranch & Country Club
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e153/gkbucket/Scan001.jpg)
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Tim Cronin:
There must be two dozen bird feeders on this place. The birds here are treated better and with more respect than I am! But at least I still feel superior to the groundhogs.
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Thanks for posting that, Gary - I wanted to but my copy of that book is currently on loan to a friend. I thought it was one of the most chapters in the book.
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8) TEP,
As you formulate plans, put me down for sniper duty.. I'll bring my Crossman pellet gun..
By the way, does your sister understand that the underbrush is great habitat for snakes and many other critters that love to eat birds and bird eggs?
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The only dangerous and predatory snakes in Philly are the two legged kind with law degrees... but they are for the birds, so they got that going for them.... ::)
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I would hate to make that walk from 2 to 3 and 5 to 6. ;D
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"By the way, does your sister understand that the underbrush is great habitat for snakes and many other critters that love to eat birds and bird eggs?"
Steve:
Sure she does but why mess with the balance of Nature? It's been going on for a very long time. ;) We also have one of the most sophisticated conservation organizations you've ever seen right here in this township (it's right down the street on the place of my new neighbor, M. Night Shymalan). This farm was actually the first that went into it and into a Federal conservation easement over thirty years ago.
I mow that field anyway but not more than twice a year these days. If I put a golf course on it with basically grass hazard areas it would just be a matter of mowing SOME of it a whole lot more often like once a week at least with a tractor and green areas with a lawn mower. I wouldn't exactly be trying to compete with Merion's Matt Shaeffer or anything with conditioning.
I would also go back to the Rules of Golf of the 18th century where one must tee off no more than six club lengths from the previous cup and stymies would always be in effect, as you would only be able to touch your ball when you put it in play on the tee and you would not be able to touch it for any reason at all until you removed it from the hole.
My annual maintenance cost would be no more than the annual cost of diesal fuel. If I want to redesign it would all be done simply by mowing.
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8) Are you near Blue Bell?
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I'm on the other side of the river in Willistown Township just outside Newtown Square. White Manor GC is about a half mile down the road and Aronimink GC is about 3-4 miles down another street.
This is an amazing township here. The township may be something like 15,000 acres and this incredible conservation organization has over 5,000 acres under Federal conservation easement (basically no building, ever). The field is basically a little more than 125 yards wide (at the narrowest) and probably 450-550 yards long.
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Let's do this Tom.
I envision your first tee right on your stoop, with a hole running diagonal and away from the driveway. You'd have to move the Volvo, but the Mini is probably small enough to hit over. From there we could wedge a Par 3 along Marlborough Road a la the 10th at Whitemarsh and have a skyline with your driveway.
From there, a long par 5 between your barn and your sister's house with a green somewhere down the hill. Options to play between, or around the buildings abound.
Okay, maybe not, but in all seriousness I'd love to route something on your property some time. :)
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Tom
Take a look at the Toomey & Flynn layout of the Golf Course on the estate of Mr. Robert K Cassatt. I think it would fit into your yard !
Willie
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I would certainly put in a little golf course looking facility in that land. I have thought if doing the same myself if I had the property to do it.
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Kyle:
Your description of the first or second hole is actually another field of about four acres along the driveway that I've had my faced shaped for a practice range for a few years. That one I don't need to deal with birds and such or my ultra conservationist, unreconstructed hippie sister because the deed to that field is in my name and not hers!
This morning when it was 19 degrees out I saw her walking by the barn/office with her dog out for a long walk and even though she couldn't see me in here I watched her turn towards the barn and scream; "NO GOLF COURSE!!" ;)
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Intriguing. Birds can benefit from a well-planned and researched golf facility. I'm more worried about your heavy horses.
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The field is basically a little more than 125 yards wide (at the narrowest) and probably 450-550 yards long.
Tom
Knowing your game (and a little bit about the land) I think you can get 18 holes on that sucker. All you need are 5-15 yard wide fairways with Firestone type/up and back, up and back.... routing and you've got a par 70 ~6000 yard course. Just put OOB stakes between all the holes, stimp the greens at 13 and you could probably beat any player in the world on that track.
Rich
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Rich:
I'm a disciple of Max Behr----I'm all about having it as wide as possible. Some clubs and people worry about things like people getting hit and hurt and liability. I don't.
"I'm more worried about your heavy horses."
Horses and golf coexisted just fine once upon a time in early golf, so I'm sure they could again.
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With the whole bird situation, I'm guessing Featheries are "out".
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A few GCAers including Historian Moore, World Traveler Huntley and Long Ball Hitting Loh have been on and walked the property. However, none have been granted playing rights to the exclusive grounds.
Jeff Loh and his wife Suzanna were granted playing privileges today. Like many clubs, we need the unescorted fees these days!
(http://watervilleresearch.squarespace.com/storage/jlohat%20gammy.jpg)
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Tom,
I first began posting on here in 2003 as I was seeking some comment on my plans to build a golf hole(s) on my 5 acre property.
I would say my best assistance was George C THomas' Golf Course arhcitecture of America and TD's Anatomy of golf course.
as I was scared of the amount of maintenance involved, I imported a synthetic Impact green from Atlanta Georgia to here in Australia. I had the green, 7 bunkers and 10 tees (3 tee complexes) shaped by Tony Cashmore's shaper, incorporated a water storage, reticulating bore water thru a series of ponds and a 'burn', basically designed the 10 tees beginning with Sand wedge at 85 yds up thru each club to 3 iron and hybrid, at about 205 yards, with a fair bit of irrigation, but not too much.
The green site is about 360 sq feet with three pin positions and a 'fairway' area of around 3,300 sq metres.
It is a wonderful thing, with hours of fun for my family, handicap down from 15 to 7, but has required significant commitment, time and energy, but have enjoyed every minute of it. Weeds are my biggest issue.
Cheers
Brett
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I've got a couple of friends with homemade "courses" . . . one guy retired as head of a company, and for a retirement gift his friends built him a par three with various teeing sites from the back of his house. The green is an artificial surface with three holes. The other guy has a farm with various teeing sites out back, and targets across a pond. All I can say is that with a drink and some good friends on hand, these are great "courses" to chill on. I'd take either one of them.
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3 or 4 (2, par-4s and 2, par-3s) huge double greens - each with about 4 holes cut in each and as you played a hole, on the way off, you change that pin to a different position on that green.
you can play any of the other 3 greens after you putt out
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This topic has been a lifetime discussion with my golfing buddies over a couple of beers and what we would do with lottery winnings. We have never done up drawings but it basically came down to 3 greens in a triangle that could be played any number of ways.
Might have to start some drawings, we have 40 million on for Lotto 6/49 tonight.
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The green site is about 360 sq feet with three pin positions and a 'fairway' area of around 3,300 sq metres.
It is a wonderful thing, with hours of fun for my family, handicap down from 15 to 7, but has required significant commitment, time and energy, but have enjoyed every minute of it. Weeds are my biggest issue.
Cheers
Brett
Brett
Any chances of you showing some pics of "Sunnyside Downs" ?
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Sounds great Brett. Where is this amazing course you speak of!? :D
I too would be interested in some pics please.
Pup
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I have about a ten acre field next to the barn/office here on the farm. I was just eyeing it the other day and I realized I could design a homemade course that would basically be a target course (putting would be a bit raw and tough). I could make hazards out of high grass shapes and I could make maybe 6-9 target greens. No seeding or sodding, just mowing out fairway shapes and high grass hazards in various arrangements.
If I didn't like it I could redesign it in about a month with the tractor and lawn mower! ;)
It would probably be something like golf around 1800.
Would you do it if you were me? ???
Not unless I could devote the time and resources to MAINTAIN it.
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8) ??? 8) ??? 8) ???
Any crop circles on the farm lately ???
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Come on, Tom - We need another golf course around these parts!