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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Rick Sides on November 03, 2008, 06:21:00 PM

Title: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Rick Sides on November 03, 2008, 06:21:00 PM
A friend of mine and I recently had a conversation about dream courses we would love to play.  His first choice was Augusta, although I know very few people personally that have ever gotten to play it; not just watch the Masters.  What do you think is the most difficult course to get on and why?
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Anthony Gray on November 03, 2008, 06:23:41 PM



  Old Huckaby


Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: PCCraig on November 03, 2008, 06:27:48 PM
Augusta National
The Floridian
Cypress

Here in Chicago;

Chicago Golf,
Shoreacres,
Old Elm,
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Mike Nuzzo on November 03, 2008, 06:29:03 PM
Wolf Point
To get on you'd need to know the architect, the super or the owner.
And get a little lucky too - because one has more weight than the other two.
Cheers
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Bob_Huntley on November 03, 2008, 06:31:23 PM
Rick,

It all depends on when you want to play.

At one time is was Royal dar es Salaam on Rabat, Morocco. The king played there and no one else was on the course at the time. He then put on a tournament each year and Billy Casper was generally his guest of honor and frequent winner of the event.

In the States,  I think Walter Annanberg's place in Palm Desert was the toughest ticket.


Bob
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Tom Birkert on November 03, 2008, 06:48:02 PM
In the UK I'd probably say Queenwood.

In the US, from a UK perspective, from the "ranked" courses I'd guess at Cypress Point, Chicago Golf Club and Seminole.

I think Ellerston in Australia is probably up there too.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: John Keenan on November 03, 2008, 06:51:01 PM
Bob

Curious if the Annanberg course is still in existence?

I would suspect that other personal courses are quite hard to get on.

John
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Rick Sides on November 03, 2008, 06:54:07 PM
Mike,
I heard the architect of that Wolf Point is pretty good.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: J_ Crisham on November 03, 2008, 07:02:19 PM
In the US some tough accesses would be The Jupiter Island Club, Fishers Island, Augusta National. I've found Chicago Golf to be quite doable-I suspect as with the other named clubs it's simply a matter of being in the proper circles.           Jack
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Mike Fowler on November 03, 2008, 07:03:38 PM
The Alotian, Warren Stephens new course in Maumelle, Arkansas.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Mark Smolens on November 03, 2008, 07:04:24 PM
I think I need to spend more time in Jack's circles  ;D
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Brian Cenci on November 03, 2008, 07:28:46 PM
I've never played it, but tried to, but Seminole Golf Club has got to be up there.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: tlavin on November 03, 2008, 07:31:19 PM
I'd go with Augusta National, if only on the basis of the limited number of members and the limited amount of time it's open during the year.  That makes it tough to get done, even if one has some connections.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Phil_the_Author on November 03, 2008, 07:49:06 PM
From the number of guys, and a few ladies, who have asked me to help, Bethpage Black is a real tough one to manage as well for those who live out of state and even for a few who are in-state...

p.s. - I don't mind helping when I can...
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Will MacEwen on November 03, 2008, 07:53:45 PM
In Canada, it is likely Redtail, although I think the Quebecor or Powercorp people have some sort of ultra exclusive course in rural Quebec.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Chip Gaskins on November 03, 2008, 07:59:18 PM
Morfontaine  (Honorable Mentions: Crystal Downs, LACC, The Golf Club, Fishers Island, Yeamans Hall)
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: C. Squier on November 03, 2008, 08:08:18 PM
I'd suspect it all comes down to where you're from.....I know quite a few guys from Georgia who've played Augusta National.  But they wouldn't know where to start if they wanted to play Chicago GC or Shoreacres, and vice versa for myself. 

ANGC does have one thing going against it, if the legend is true.....you can't ask a member or even hint at the desire to play it, even if they're more than just an acquaintance.  I don't know of any other club that has that unwritten rule for the members to abide by....again, if the legend is true. 

I hold out hope that dumb luck will be my guiding light over time and I'll get to see a few of the places named here :) 
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Ash Towe on November 03, 2008, 08:12:20 PM
I think in Australia it would be Ellerston.   It is owned by the Packer family, I think you have to know a family member.
In New Zealand it would be Michael Hill's course in Arrowtown.  However he does allow some outside play, as well as the NZ Open.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: J_ Crisham on November 03, 2008, 08:13:31 PM
Chip,   I would agree with all of the courses you listed with the exception of Crystal Downs. My understanding is that after mid Sept the course will allow outside play if your home pro makes the call for you. We played here in the 2nd week of Sept and you could shoot a cannon thru the course and not hit anyone. I counted 3 other groups the day we played. As an aside, I found this to be one of the friendliest group of people at a top notch club that I've visited. The staff, one of whom is a GCA member who shall remain nameless, was very engaging and quite helpful. Great place, Jack
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Joe Bausch on November 03, 2008, 08:15:39 PM
Bausch National in Saint Davids, PA.  A neat little pitch and putt by Whigham and Barker.  Well, come to think of it, a case of cold Budweiser will get you on it in no time.  :)
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: J_ Crisham on November 03, 2008, 08:21:22 PM
I'd suspect it all comes down to where you're from.....I know quite a few guys from Georgia who've played Augusta National.  But they wouldn't know where to start if they wanted to play Chicago GC or Shoreacres, and vice versa for myself. 

ANGC does have one thing going against it, if the legend is true.....you can't ask a member or even hint at the desire to play it, even if they're more than just an acquaintance.  I don't know of any other club that has that unwritten rule for the members to abide by....again, if the legend is true. 

I hold out hope that dumb luck will be my guiding light over time and I'll get to see a few of the places named here :) 
Clint, You bring up an excellent point regarding it depends on where you call home. That was my thought regarding what circles you run in. Obviously those of us in Chicago are more likely to have aquaintences at Chicago or the venerable OFCC! ;D        Jack
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Kenny Baer on November 03, 2008, 08:28:26 PM
I would have to say Augusta; I am from GA and have never had the chance to play it and neither has my father and he is in his mid 50's and has played at least 35-40 of the Top 100 including some pretty exclusive places.

What makes Augusta so difficult is the "don't ask policy" plus the fact that everyone wants to get on; people spend their entire lives trying to get an invite to ANGC and never get the opportunity, there are just so few "regular" guys among their membership anymore.  

I think if anyone spent their whole life trying to get on Chicago, Fishers, PV, The Golf Club, Double Eagle.....ect......they would find a way.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: cary lichtenstein on November 03, 2008, 08:35:37 PM
Augusta is the most difficult to get to play
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Anthony Fowler on November 03, 2008, 08:47:41 PM
Pocantico Hills is certainly up there.  Are there any others that are comparable in terms of quality and sheer exclusivity.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Anthony Gray on November 03, 2008, 10:42:39 PM



   What does this thread say about american golf ? Most of the private clubs in GB & I allow non-members.


Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Andy Troeger on November 03, 2008, 10:59:12 PM
Of the guys I know who are pretty connected, Augusta is the course that has been the hardest for them to access. I think maybe one of them have played it.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Patrick Kiser on November 03, 2008, 11:13:09 PM
I'm I to gather from the non-listing of Pine Valley and SFGC that ... they're walk ons???  :o
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Scott Stambaugh on November 03, 2008, 11:22:21 PM
How about the single-owner/no membership courses-

-Tim Blixseth's Porcupine Creek (once turned down a purchase offer from Bill Gates.)

-Craig McCaw's James Island (was for sale, not sure of the status of this one.)

-John Fry's Institute (tour event on the way?  Maybe will lose some of its mystique.)

-Another McCaw property north of Seattle- Caledon (a few charity events a year and that's it.)





Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Jon Spaulding on November 03, 2008, 11:50:07 PM
How about the single-owner/no membership courses-

-Tim Blixseth's Porcupine Creek (once turned down a purchase offer from Bill Gates.)

-Craig McCaw's James Island (was for sale, not sure of the status of this one.)

-John Fry's Institute (tour event on the way?  Maybe will lose some of its mystique.)

-Another McCaw property north of Seattle- Caledon (a few charity events a year and that's it.)


Take Porcupine off the list. They have charity events there every year where you simply write a check & tee it up.

I would tend to agree with the "homer" theorem. Shoot, in the bay area one can throw a dart at an SCU yearbook from 1942 and play the Cliffs at Olympic. :D
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Will MacEwen on November 04, 2008, 12:07:52 AM
How about the single-owner/no membership courses-

-Tim Blixseth's Porcupine Creek (once turned down a purchase offer from Bill Gates.)

-Craig McCaw's James Island (was for sale, not sure of the status of this one.)

-John Fry's Institute (tour event on the way?  Maybe will lose some of its mystique.)

-Another McCaw property north of Seattle- Caledon (a few charity events a year and that's it.)







Was James Island ever completed?

Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: W.H. Cosgrove on November 04, 2008, 12:08:48 AM
How about Seminole? 

Augusta
Fishers
Seminole
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Pete_Pittock on November 04, 2008, 01:19:52 AM
Augusta - No. Become a sportswriter or a longtime volunteer for the turnamint. Your chances are gretly improved.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Brad Fleischer on November 04, 2008, 02:09:31 AM
I agree with most of the listings so how about le prince de provence and ellerston.....
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Mark_Rowlinson on November 04, 2008, 05:23:06 AM
The UK is getting easier - Swinley Forest and Rye are much more accessible than once. I imagine Wisley is still strictly members' guests only. Even the golf courses attached to our (ever dwindling) RAF stations are usually available for party bookings. Has anyone ever played the course at the US Air Base at RAF Lakenheath? It looks to be heathland.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Ally Mcintosh on November 04, 2008, 05:39:50 AM
The UK is getting easier - Swinley Forest and Rye are much more accessible than once. I imagine Wisley is still strictly members' guests only. Even the golf courses attached to our (ever dwindling) RAF stations are usually available for party bookings. Has anyone ever played the course at the US Air Base at RAF Lakenheath? It looks to be heathland.

As Tom said elsewhere, I guess Queenwood to be the most difficult in the UK... The Wisley has a larger membership and a less interesting 80's RTJ course, both of which I suspect makes it that slight bit easier... Loch Lomond is still not easy... Swinley and Rye are much easier than the above three by comparison...

Any other really private courses in the UK?
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Mike Hendren on November 04, 2008, 09:50:58 AM
I am confident that I am the only member of the treehouse that has played The Lighting Bug At Solutude.  In fact, I doubt anyone else could even find it.

Bogey
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Lester George on November 04, 2008, 11:17:31 AM


Kanawha Club,  even if you have heard of it you can't find it.  Very cool.

Lester
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: PCCraig on November 04, 2008, 11:33:30 AM


Kanawha Club,  even if you have heard of it you can't find it.  Very cool.

Lester

Lester...you are listed as the GCA. Care to elaborate on your experience there? The club looks really cool and quiet.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Lester George on November 04, 2008, 12:51:21 PM

Kanawha Club is a private, 9 hole hole par 3 course with 50-60 members.  Many of the members are women (including my wife) and there are no rules except you can not smoke inside. 

You want to wear jeans, okay. 
You want to wear flip=flops, okay. 
You want to play a 7-some, okay. 
Carry you cell phone, walk, play with children, whatever.

Usually does around 8-10 rounds per day.

Immaculately maintained and a lot of fun.

Lester
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Tim Leahy on November 04, 2008, 01:20:31 PM
The Institute in Morgan Hill, Ca. Only available to friends of Frye's
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: PCCraig on November 04, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
I am confident that I am the only member of the treehouse that has played The Lighting Bug At Solutude.  In fact, I doubt anyone else could even find it.

Bogey

What is The Lighting Bug At Solutude? Where is it?
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Tim Gavrich on November 04, 2008, 01:56:02 PM
What about Morefar on the CT-NY line?  Isn't it owned by AIG or one of those companies?  The mother of a friend of mine played it once and said it was really cool.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Jim Franklin on November 04, 2008, 02:47:43 PM
Clearly, everybody has forgotten that only two men in all of history have gotten onto the Reverse Jans National....

But only one wanted to so it doesn't count.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: PCCraig on November 04, 2008, 03:05:30 PM
Shivas,

When is the reverse Jans going to be playable this winter?
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Jeff_Mingay on November 04, 2008, 03:09:59 PM
Was James Island ever completed?

Will,

Yes, there's an 18-hole course on James Island, designed by Jack Nicklaus and co. An irrigation contractor from B.C., who we've worked with on two jobs this year, did some work there. He says he's only seen a handful of people on the course. The turf is apparently IMMACULATE. I hear it looks like no one's ever hit a shot at James Island!
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: John Foley on November 04, 2008, 03:15:53 PM
What about Domaine Laforest in Quebec??
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Will MacEwen on November 04, 2008, 03:24:59 PM
Was James Island ever completed?

Will,

Yes, there's an 18-hole course on James Island, designed by Jack Nicklaus and co. An irrigation contractor from B.C., who we've worked with on two jobs this year, did some work there. He says he's only seen a handful of people on the course. The turf is apparently IMMACULATE. I hear it looks like no one's ever hit a shot at James Island!

At one point I heard only 11 were complete, but I don't hang in the McCaw crowd.  I think they have been trying to sell the Island, but that must be tough right now.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Mike Wagner on November 04, 2008, 04:23:30 PM
Augusta
Arran Point (Wildflower)
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Phil McDade on November 04, 2008, 04:47:22 PM
It strikes me that the 1,500 or so members of this Discussion Board are pretty well-connected. My sense, in reading threads, is that Augusta National is probably the most exclusive, at least judging from comments of GCA DB regulars who had admitted to playing there. There doesn't appear to have been that many, compared to Cypress, Seminole, Pine Valley, and others mentioned.

(The media/volunteer point seems outside the bounds of the original question....)
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Marty Bonnar on November 04, 2008, 04:49:19 PM
The Old Course on a Saturday in July  ;D
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Paul Jones on November 04, 2008, 05:11:31 PM
It has to be Augusta since that is the one most want to play over all other and they are closed for 1/2 year.

Any other course that requires you to play with a member and have very few members: Seminole, Chicago, etc...
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Marty Bonnar on November 04, 2008, 05:14:27 PM
The Old Course 5 months a year (my contention being that you can't really say you've played a course through a 1/2" of Astroturf)  :'(
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Mark Chaplin on November 05, 2008, 04:59:56 AM
Wisley - which I've played several times
Queenwood - I know a couple of members but never played it
Loch Lomond - although that may just about to be getting a damn sight easier

ANGC - interestingly I know at least six people at my club that have played there, all through different ANGC members.

Chicago - I've been lucky enough to play.

I guess every private club is difficult to play if you do not know anyone and relatively easy if you do.

Privately owned courses are different and don't really count in my opinion.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Rich Goodale on November 05, 2008, 05:20:03 AM
The Old Course 5 months a year (my contention being that you can't really say you've played a course through a 1/2" of Astroturf)  :'(

Martin

I would suggested that you try to sweep the ball off the astroturf rather than hit down and through it.  The latter can be painful as well as ineffective.

Rich
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Marty Bonnar on November 05, 2008, 06:26:10 PM
Audible Huckabian Yucks, Rich!
Have you ever done that?
Bejabbers, but it hurts! (Both the cold hands and the heated pride as the little astroturf square flies perfectly straight down the fairway for twenty or thirty yards and the ball merely pops straight up in the air and falls on exactly the spot it left.) OUCH!

 ;D
FBD.
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Dan Herrmann on November 06, 2008, 07:18:31 AM
I'm I to gather from the non-listing of Pine Valley and SFGC that ... they're walk ons???  :o

Not exactly :)

Pine Valley even has its own police department to keep the rif-raff out!
Title: Re: What is the most difficult course to get to play?
Post by: Justin Broderson on November 06, 2008, 07:29:26 AM
It amazes me that after 2 pages no one said PV.  I've lived in NJ for 23 years and have never even had a slight hope of getting on.  I must be doing something wrong.