Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Melvyn Morrow on October 31, 2008, 02:10:54 PM
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So you have a buckets full of money, a beautiful site for a course, you have designed one of the most enjoyable and challenging courses in the world, only thing left is to suggest to the client the names for the 18 holes. Can you suggest 18 names and a short explanation i.e.
Hole 1 Doak’s Folly Apparently still trying to get one right!!
Hole 2 Bausch Tipple Short simple hole with unguarded green
Hole 3 Kavanaugh Way Confusing Par 4 with what looks like two greens
Hole 4 McBrides Birdies Short, adventurous and scary Par 4
Hole 5 Arble Bay Par 5 around the houses but gets ther in the end
Hole 6 Troeger Lament Frustration hole as no yardage Markers
Hole 7 Paul’s Madness Par 6 Matches his long posts, but is it challenging
Hole 8 Braley’s Barrow Blind Hole - distance information is of little help
Hole 9 Mucci Dream If only he understood the principles of design!!
Hole 10 Gray Spot Honest traditional challenging Par 4
Hole 11 Ocean Eleven Typical Dye’s type Green with water trap
Hole 12 Bonnar Bond Distinguish Par 4 with hidden hazards (Cats)
Hole 13 Crafter Doctored Template hole based upon TOC 18th
Hole 14 Goodale Dyke Short but powerful hole, not quite what it seems
Hole 15 Naccarato Hollow Fairway well protected but with some bumps
Hole 16 Forrest’s Run Whin encroaching to create narrow fairway
Hole 17 Cirba Quirk Hole in total harmony with the land
Hole 18 Morrow’s Burn Sweetest Hole on the course, mature, hint of
the Traditional - could have been designed by
Old Tom
To comply with the cart fraternity a hidden cart track has been installed, but it skirts the course some 150 yards away. In some parts the cart track runs precariously close to the cliff edge, insurance cover is a must. Laser jammers have also been installed over the course so as not to spoil the enjoyment of the traditional golfer. ;)
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I have to say I feel more insulted by the lack of inclusion than any of these guys will be by how you describe their holes.
I had thought we declared peace, Melvyn. Don't make me draw up the war papers.
;D
TH
ps - I have to say that cracked me up! Well done.
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Tom
I was going to suggest a 22 hole course but that might have had me removed from GCA.com. Expect I might still get removed for making comments regards our architects or designers.
Some fun, but I think all courses should name their holes, it’s an honour which I thing is a way of saying thanks to some of our unsung heroes in the game.
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Tom, you could suggest Melvyn include:
Hole X. Huck's Eye Candy -- spectacular view and well-conditioned but weak on the design.
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Melvyn - well said, all of it.
And Carl, great call! That's what I'd expect and want.
;D ;D
I do think in general it's a cool thing to name golf holes, but over here at times it does get a little "precious." That is, some of the names they give are really cutesy and stupid. So I like the idea overall, but I nominate Melvyn and Carl to be the official namers.
TH
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A Huckaby Hole would I expect be one that gives the novice as much help as is required with giant TV monitors as 50 yard distance markers – a loudspeaker system shouting the distance just in case the techno-golfer did not understand his handheld range finder and misunderstood the TV information.
I fully understand Tom that those who love their gadgets are not always as gifted as others.
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A Huckaby Hole would I expect be one that gives the novice as much help as is required with giant TV monitors as 50 yard distance markers – a loudspeaker system shouting the distance just in case the techno-golfer did not understand his handheld range finder and misunderstood the TV information.
I fully understand Tom that those who love their gadgets are not always as gifted as others.
Love it. We are back at peace.
;D
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Melvyn:
Early in my career we built a couple of courses where we named all 18 holes. But, as clients kept asking us to do it, I found it impossible to keep coming up with good original names for all of the holes -- and including a few clunkers does no favors for the course.
I doubt any of those Scottish courses you revere had good names for all 18 holes on opening day, either.
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Most imposed names are too formulaic. I might try this approach:
1 - "Jitters" - tee right in front of the pro shop
2 - "Chunk it in the Soup" - par three over water
3. "Fore- Right" - OB on the right
4. "Psychological Chunk" - short par 4 with green perched on a hill and no rough
5. "Lie Detector" - hole with a carry distance to the fairway of 235 over a cavernous bunker from the 6700 yard tees and similar carry distances from other tees.
6. "Yip Meter" - a hole with a slow grainy green that shows whether someone actually can make a 3 foot putt
7. "You are not Nicklaus" a green with a steep slope in front and a steep slope behind requiring a solid, controlled iron shot.
8. "Think!" - Front to back sloping green where par is easy from long but impossible from short.
9. "Break out the wallet" - A wildly undulating green on a short par five or par four.
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I have to say I feel more insulted by the lack of inclusion than any of these guys will be by how you describe their holes.
I had thought we declared peace, Melvyn. Don't make me draw up the war papers.
;D
TH
ps - I have to say that cracked me up! Well done.
Huckaby,
I'm afraid your a 2nd class citizen on GCA.com now as you didn't make the 1st string "select group". Don't take this personally but I just can't hang out with you no more... it'll be bad for my image :P ;D
Melyvn,
Very interesting course, and I do love blind holes...just as long as they dont stick ponds or other lurking tall grass where I can't see em. ;)
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Kalen - second class is a step up for me.
;)
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Tom D
The main point of my post is that holes IMHO should have names as I mentioned above. These names should be based upon the individuals connected to the course and who have contributed to the local game - starting with the designer(s)
In a way it is a small thank you for their contribution to the game, plus I feel it is far more appropriate that just calling them Dell, Sahara, etc. The second point I was also trying to make was the hole should reflect their personality.
Or does this discussion group feel numbers are still the way forward?
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I think every hole deserves a name. Case in point: Do you remember #17 at TOC as a number, or do you know The Road Hole?
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If Dave Miller were designing the course, then Kalen's hole would be covered with bunkers...
SANDMAN!!! ;D
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I am depressed that my name is not attached to one of the holes. ??? :'( Truly saddening.
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If Dave Miller were designing the course, then Kalen's hole would be covered with bunkers...
SANDMAN!!! ;D
Hey,
I resemble that remark. Its a dang fine thing that David M won't be quitting his day job anytime soon. ;D
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A Huckaby Hole would I expect be one that gives the novice as much help as is required with giant TV monitors as 50 yard distance markers – a loudspeaker system shouting the distance just in case the techno-golfer did not understand his handheld range finder and misunderstood the TV information.
I fully understand Tom that those who love their gadgets are not always as gifted as others.
Melvyn,
The Huck Hole......Long uphill par 6 that requires a cart (buggy) with GPS.
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An additional list due to some complaints because I did not include their names in the first place.
Hole 1 Rabbit Warren Many Bunkers to minimise using electronic aids
Hole 2 Burzynski Gate Hidden hole, need to refer to scorecard
Hole 3 Benham’s Hill Interesting Tee shot then gets complicated
Hole 4 Glynn’s Burn Surprising & enjoyable, but has hidden hazards
Hole 5 Wagner Hollow Long hole, may weigh on your mind but fun
Hole 6 Macpherson Whim Traditional Hole with old world magic
Hole 7 Tepper’s Shelf Like a library, hole stacked with bunkers
Hole 8 Daley’s Pail Friendly hole with various approaches to the pin
Hole 9 Cardinal Moore Shy hole, but never short of surprises
Hole 10 Bert’s Way Groundhog hole seems to repeat itself
Hole 11 Morgan’s Hovel More structure than substance to the hole
Hole 12 Huckaby Dip Fighting little hole with full of self importance
Hole 13 Topp’s Edge Bemusing hole and questions your game
Hole 14 Muldoon Reach Searching hole, but can touch ones Spirit
Hole 15 Gavrich’s Quarry Deep hole with the ability to catch you out
Hole 16 Stiff’s Path Traditional routing with a touch of magic
Hole 17 Bomber Harris Unconventional hole made easy by aids
Hole 18 Ran’s Ultimatum Deceptive hole, hidden out of bounds areas
Just a little fun and no insults intended, but the idea is to name the holes which hopefully part reflects upon the individuals. To all those I have left out or missed, I sincerely apologise and to all those I have included I also apologies.
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Melvyn,
Well done. Better yet you picked my "lament" for my least favorite number! :D
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Melvyn:
Early in my career we built a couple of courses where we named all 18 holes. But, as clients kept asking us to do it, I found it impossible to keep coming up with good original names for all of the holes -- and including a few clunkers does no favors for the course.
I doubt any of those Scottish courses you revere had good names for all 18 holes on opening day, either.
Tom:
What you need to do is pick up a paperback edition of the collected works of Robert Burns, Scotland's all time National Poet.
He uses Scots dialect in all his poems, and I'm sure you could pick a couple of words at random, and use them to name the hole, ie:
Skelpit Stanes
The advantage is that it doesn't have to make sense, in either Old Scots or modern English ........ and you are left with both Visitors and Members alike speculating on the "real" meaning of the hole. ??? ???
;D ;D ;D
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Melvyn,
Thank you for the honor. You are truly a gentleman architect as well as a gentleman golfer.
Hole 3 Kavanaugh Way... It is going to take several plays to figure this hole out. The green is going to be in terrible condition since the super only gets 40 quid a day.
Hole 10 Gray Spot... What a perfect way to turn for home.
Hole 18 Morrow's Burn... With just the thought of the hole I have bagpipes in my ears.
Anthony
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Full of self-importance? You couldn't have picked the one thing I am less full of... Man I am the most self-deprecatory participant on this site. Hell my posts in this thread ought to prove that. And I am reminded of a certain pot saying things to a kettle....
So war is back on.
;D
All in good fun, as always.
TH
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Every course needs a name. How about The Kavanaugh Club....No I like Old Huckaby better..... No better yet.............. ROYAL MORROW..........where The Spirit of the Game lives on forever !!!!!!
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What about courses where holes usedd to have names but no longer do, is RCD the only example of this?
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The best names reflect something to do with the nature of the land or feature on the hole. The association is easy.
I think Long, Short can be included on all courses for said holes so long as there isn't a feature that lends itself better.
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What exactly is my hole supposed to mean???
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What exactly is my hole supposed to mean???
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What exactly is my hole supposed to mean???
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Melvyn, thanks, you could have named my hole "Glenmorangie!"
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Melvyn,
Does you course have a tiebreaker or a watering hole? You could probably name it after Huckaby :-\
Tom,
You want war? I hear the greenskeeper has utilized weapons of moss destruction. :D
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Tom
War & Peace, but when you are willing to dispose of a book on MacKenzie
perhaps I was right about self.
You moan if I did not include you, you moan when I do – I will never get it right but being such a kind, decent, generous, amicable and lovable guy I keep trying. Although I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are a total lost cause – tell me again what game do you play, as I can’t remember - think you said it may have a vague connection with golf.
War or Peace – see you in Flavian Amphitheatre (The Coliseum in Rome) – Dye style – filled with water or the more normal sandy bunker state – the choice is yours but my gladius (sword) is being sharpened as we speak.
The alternative is just to remove your name form one of the most magnificent course to be found in the Universe - just no pleasing some people. ;)
Tim
Think you have got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it, got It, got it, got it – what were we talking about ? ???
Bill
If I did call it ”Glenmorangie”, play would be backed up for days, first while you searched for your bottle(s) then sobered up enough to complete your round. :D
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Peter
Would Tom have such a thing as a tie, is he that formal? I certainly would not call it a sty or trough - that would just be totally unfair on Tom. 8 :o
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Melvyn:
You're right, there's just no winning with me.
As for my willingness to dispose of a book on Mackenzie, heck I thought it was a nice thing to do. Ian Andrews is a darn fine golf course architect and a fine writer as well and I figured he could use it more than I can, especially since he is having a hard time finding a copy. Please do fill me in on how this makes you more correct in jibing me for self-importance.
BTW I wear ties for two things and two things only: weddings and funerals.
Man we really do have to meet someday so you can see how horribly wrong you have me judged. Peter can fill you in. I'm pretty much just a fun-loving yokel. That's why I tend to take issue with those who take all this too seriously and profess absolutes... know anyone like that?
;D
In any case I remain as honored for the inclusion in course 2 as I was offended by lack of inclusion in course 1.
All the best, as always.
Tom H.
ps - not sure if you follow English football, but I am a rather rabid Arsenal fan.. and the events of mid-week and today have me in a painfully foul mood. So please do bear with me.
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Tom
:D :D :D :D :D :D 8)
Melvyn
PS When we meet due to my Scottish blood line you will have to buy the first few drinks, will give you that feeling of self importance OK 8)
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Melvyn:
It will be an honor.
Self-importantly,
Tom
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M2, I have no idea what your 2nd hole means, but to follow Tom Doak is some kind of honor. I think.
;)
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Joe
To be named on my course - you should be proud. The hole is short & natural with no actual hazards by the Green – mind games as the Green is the trap.
Melvyn
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All the names I usually use for courses look like
@&#%$#&
#@*(&$%^#
etc
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Pat
I hope you the maturity not to shout them out loud ;)
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Pat
I hope you the maturity not to shout them out loud ;)
ummmm errrrrrrrr Okay sure ::)
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Pat
Wrong again, well I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but clearly in some cases it’s not advisable – banging my head against a brick wall – the youth of today – what can one say, perhaps it’s the case of just using the immortal words “**** ***” ;)
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Mel,
Sometimes it is not just the youth. ;)
JesII
Go to Hell
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Mike
Regrettable, I am not perfect and frustration can surface (when it does I try to apologise as soon as I realise my mistake), but I hope never on a course with other players.
A little bit of Hell is good for the Tan, so I am told or is it just good practice for the future as I expect it will be my final destination.
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Melvyn,
Just go easy on us fat lazy Americans. I took a cart yesterday on probably the easiest walking course in America. You will just have to trust me there was a good reason. I feel fortunate to have an owner that understands all sides of an issue/policy.
Cheers
Mike Sweeney
Member
Enniscrone Golf Club
Architect: Eddie "Doak is no Minimalist!" Hackett ;D