Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Ran Morrissett on August 05, 2008, 11:00:37 AM
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A few weeks ago, I posted several photos of a course in Pinehurst that is scheduled to open in March next year and asked people to guess the architect. A fair few rushed in with Coore & Crenshaw based on the style of the bunkers and, in fact, they were correct.
How about here? Can you readily identify the architect firm and/or where the course is located? This is much harder as the bunker ‘style’ is of little/no help.
In addition to the three photos below, here are some hints:
*one of the architects is a regular poster on GolfClubAtlas.com (and yes that classes him as being very smart, at least smart enough to avoid any Merion/Myopia threads 8))
* the site is blessed with sandy soil throughout
* the location is generally windy, enough so that the seventh hole is a 300 yard par three :o that makes sense
* the course features what is being billed as the world’s biggest bunker and since it stretches out of eye-sight, it just might be!
* play is year-around and is slated to commence in the January, 2009 timeframe.
* as you may be able to discern, it’s not Oakland Trees, site of this week’s PGA Championship, but there is a connection, albeit a painful one
* this probably gives it away but its location may be the sole hot spot of golf course construction in the Americas.
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/DLPC11.JPG)
Above is the 200 yard uphill eleventh with a sixty foot plus drop off the back right through that gap.
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/DLPC15g.jpg)
This one is taken forty yards shy of the fifteenth green. Though photos flatten green contours, some of the excellent (!) random movement are still evident.
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/DLPC17.JPG)
Seen from behind, the reachable seventeenth plays dead downwind but holding the small elevated green in the foreground will be the trick. The wide fifteenth fairway is seen to the right and the 140 yard sixteenth is in the far distance.
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Whoa that place looks incredible.
Obviously on the great lakes....
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It's not in the US - Mexico or Costa Rica. Mike Young?
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Mayan Riviera?
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It kind of looks like the Oregon Coast around Florence/Newport.
I am sure I am wrong by at least one body of water.
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How is this "obviously" the great lakes?
My guess is Mexico.
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I think that's Paul Cowley's work in Mexico (Cabos?). With Davis Love III Design (is that the connection with the PGA Championship?)
Even the usually very modest and reticent Mr. Cowley has not been able to resist talking about how good his new course in Mexico would be (and even at that, I think it was a few months ago that he last mentioned it)...and if my guess is right, it appears that Paul had very good reasons to be proud!
Peter
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Not sure about "sole hotspot of golf course construction in the Americas" but...
I would guess Cabo San Lucas
not sure about architect....
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Can you play year round in the Great Lakes region? I don't think so. Go south to mexico for this one.
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I'll second the guesses of Paul Cowley and mexico. We know he's been working down there causing all sorts of trouble and rabble-rousing with the locals.
If this is the course he's been working on perhaps, he'll be redeeming himself.
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I dont need to know the name per se, but I would LOVE to play it! That is an extremely well thought out and very, very natural from aesthetic point of view.
I am thinking a warmer climate type area...
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No comment.
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How many holes are actually under grass now? When I visited six months ago or so I guess about half had been planted.
That eleventh hole was the one that shocked me on our walk-through, boy did it look like it would be severe in a wind, and it is a very windy site.
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How many holes are actually under grass now? When I visited six months ago or so I guess about half had been planted.
That eleventh hole was the one that shocked me on our walk-through, boy did it look like it would be severe in a wind, and it is a very windy site.
I believe 13 holes were grassed as of last week and completion slated for next week.
11 will be tough but plans were to amend the left side to some degree allowing for more playability there... generally the wind willl keep most from entering "the world's biggest bunker" right of the green... Actually among my favorite holes without having had the chance to hit a ball.
A few others offered questions but until playing them extended discussion would be unfair... only to say that 600 into the prevailing wind to what would be one of the better green complexes were it approached with a short iron (highly unlikely) is a bit of a head scratcher.
Sorry PC... you know how much I like the place.
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given the front page picture on GCA recently changed to Cabo Del Sol I think there is a good chance this is in Cabo as well.
my first thought was this looked like El Dorado's ocean holes (Nicklaus) but the Sea of Cortez looked to docile. (and the ocean holes have been bulldozed for housing now)
there is a lot of work down there:
hanse/shackelford (now), doak (i think?), love III, c&c (next year?), etc
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I'm guessing it's Miami after they blow up all the condos they can't sell or its Mexico.
I wonder how the resort golfers are going to like it.
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Beautiful photos, thanks for sharing.
I might even be able to convince my wife that we should vacation there.
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If this is what Paul Cowley's been working on, where does Phil Mickelson fit into the picture? Wasn't he involved on this overall project?
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Maybe I shouldn't judge from a few photos, but that looks penal to the extreme, scary, and a nightmare for a mid-level handicapper to try to play. All in all, a good reason to put up the clubs and go lie on that great looking beach behind it.
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If this is what Paul Cowley's been working on, where does Phil Mickelson fit into the picture? Wasn't he involved on this overall project?
Same development... differrent course... totally different land. Probably a couple years off for that one but think Shadow Creek concept.
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Maybe I shouldn't judge from a few photos, but that looks penal to the extreme, scary, and a nightmare for a mid-level handicapper to try to play. All in all, a good reason to put up the clubs and go lie on that great looking beach behind it.
Steve, most driving areas actually appear rather wide and of the photos shown there is no sense of difficulty or lack thereof from the tee at all.
The photo of 11 is from about 175 on an uphill par 3... go for the back right pin and you are one brave hombre!
The photo does show the difficulty of the approach at 15 (my initial reaction last week was... hmmmm this aint easy...) but in fairness the green is the size of Rhode Island or thereabouts.
The other photo looks over the 15th through 17th without a real sense of playability of shotmaking requirements. But sure is purty!
17 in the foreground was probably the lease favorite of Ran and I both... but again future playability tweaks were noted by on site supervisor.
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Greg - thanks for that post. I appreciate the details.
Peter
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Greg - thanks for that post. I appreciate the details.
Peter
Peter, My pleasure... love the place. Now if they would just put me in charge of sales I might loosen up with my praise a bit more. ;D
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Where in Cabo is this?
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Where in Cabo is this?
Pacific Side... maybe 3-4 miles up from the arch/land's end. Just past the lighthouse if you are familiar.
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Greg, what will happen when the wind kicks up? Will it be a sandstorm?
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Greg, what will happen when the wind kicks up? Will it be a sandstorm?
I will defer to those charged with marketing the property for that answer ;)
I am sure wind was a concern/factor in the design... though there exists conflicting evidence to that end. Again without playing it can only make assumptions but my assumptions are based on a bit of experience in the area.
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Even with my limited knowledge of the area, I would be concerned. As for the new pic on GCA I assume that's the ocean course 16 & 17.
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Maybe I shouldn't judge from a few photos, but that looks penal to the extreme, scary, and a nightmare for a mid-level handicapper to try to play. All in all, a good reason to put up the clubs and go lie on that great looking beach behind it.
Steve, most driving areas actually appear rather wide and of the photos shown there is no sense of difficulty or lack thereof from the tee at all.
The photo of 11 is from about 175 on an uphill par 3... go for the back right pin and you are one brave hombre!
The photo does show the difficulty of the approach at 15 (my initial reaction last week was... hmmmm this aint easy...) but in fairness the green is the size of Rhode Island or thereabouts.
The other photo looks over the 15th through 17th without a real sense of playability of shotmaking requirements. But sure is purty!
17 in the foreground was probably the lease favorite of Ran and I both... but again future playability tweaks were noted by on site supervisor.
OK, now that it seems we have been found out [and I'm getting over last nights red eye flight from San Diego], I'll field a few.
Its apperant that there is some confusion on yardages....similar to Bandon there is a prevailing wind but not always....it can reverse itself a lot of the time, or even be still.
We have built many tees in places that were appropriate for the design of the hole, but only to be used for the appropriate conditions.
#14, a par five that plays into the wind much of the time, does have a 600 yd back tee, but will play just over 500 yds most of the time. Its interesting [actually frustrating], that many people want to play every hole from the tips, regardless of the conditions.....and then complain that the hole might be too tough. A rather famous ex baseball player who hits it long, hit three wood, three wood, 3/4 three wood into the wind at #14 when it was blowing a steady 25 mph....and complained a little....but I enjoy the fact that a person of similar ability could hit the 535yd, par 4, #10 in two with a 7 iron, or the 300yd par three with a 4 iron in the same conditions.
Most people should play this course from the same overall yardage they play from while playing their home course......and then they might not even lose a ball! [ my goal].
The par three #11 has a 9,000 sq ft green and plays slightly crossing and down wind most of the time. I don't feel its any more difficult than Spyglass #3 in the wind.
#15, par four, is similar, but not near as difficult, as say PBeach #8.
#17, a reachable par 5, will have a lot more turf almost all the way to the green, now that we are beginning to pull sod from our nursery.
We are just starting the final detail phase of the course, and have much to do prior to opening.....bunker detailing, edge treatments and tie ins, re vegetation etc. The three holes shown served as part of our nursery and we harvested the sprigs for the rest of the course from them. I was able to approve the final three greens for sprigging just yesterday.
Its been very interesting.
I'm glad Ran and Greg were able to pass through and have favorable impressions.....but its early yet, and we need time to finish it before getting involved in too much commentary.
But I will say its going to be a good one!
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Even with my limited knowledge of the area, I would be concerned. As for the new pic on GCA I assume that's the ocean course 16 & 17.
Henry, That is correct... the personal handywork of one Ran Morrissett. Move over Joanne Dost!
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It is a great photo. Sure hope his ball wasn't anywhere near where he took the snapshot.
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Maybe I shouldn't judge from a few photos, but that looks penal to the extreme, scary, and a nightmare for a mid-level handicapper to try to play. All in all, a good reason to put up the clubs and go lie on that great looking beach behind it.
Steve, most driving areas actually appear rather wide and of the photos shown there is no sense of difficulty or lack thereof from the tee at all.
The photo of 11 is from about 175 on an uphill par 3... go for the back right pin and you are one brave hombre!
The photo does show the difficulty of the approach at 15 (my initial reaction last week was... hmmmm this aint easy...) but in fairness the green is the size of Rhode Island or thereabouts.
The other photo looks over the 15th through 17th without a real sense of playability of shotmaking requirements. But sure is purty!
17 in the foreground was probably the lease favorite of Ran and I both... but again future playability tweaks were noted by on site supervisor.
OK, now that it seems we have been found out [and I'm getting over last nights red eye flight from San Diego], I'll field a few.
Its apperant that there is some confusion on yardages....similar to Bandon there is a prevailing wind but not always....it can reverse itself a lot of the time, or even be still.
We have built many tees in places that were appropriate for the design of the hole, but only to be used for the appropriate conditions.
#14, a par five that plays into the wind much of the time, does have a 600 yd back tee, but will play just over 500 yds most of the time. Its interesting [actually frustrating], that many people want to play every hole from the tips, regardless of the conditions.....and then complain that the hole might be too tough. A rather famous ex baseball player who hits it long, hit three wood, three wood, 3/4 three wood into the wind at #14 when it was blowing a steady 25 mph....and complained a little....but I enjoy the fact that a person of similar ability could hit the 535yd, par 4, #10 in two with a 7 iron, or the 300yd par three with a 4 iron in the same conditions.
Most people should play this course from the same overall yardage they play from while playing their home course......and then they might not even lose a ball! [ my goal].
The par three #11 has a 9,000 sq ft green and plays slightly crossing and down wind most of the time. I don't feel its any more difficult than Spyglass #3 in the wind.
#15, par four, is similar, but not near as difficult, as say PBeach #8.
#17, a reachable par 5, will have a lot more turf almost all the way to the green, now that we are beginning to pull sod from our nursery.
We are just starting the final detail phase of the course, and have much to do prior to opening. I was able to approve the final three greens for sprigging just yesterday.
I'm glad Ran and Greg were able to pass through and have favorable impressions.....but its early yet, and we need time to finish it before getting involved in too much commentary.
But I will say its going to be a good one!
Paul not trying to mislead anyone on yardage and do not believe I did to be honest.
Please see the "Am I a wuss" thread... I will not be playing from 600 into the previaling wind... heck I porbably will not be playing it any way >:(
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I think the name of the project is Diamante, Cabo San Lucas.
The DL3 course is The Dunes.
The Mickelson course is The Oasis.
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Paul - Can't wait to see photos of the finished course. YOU ARE THE MAN!!!
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Clearly the best property that Love Design has ever had with which to work (that same statement would have applied to 9X% of all architects as well), the fun that Paul and everyone had is evident. For instance, the 10,000 sq.ft. plus second green looks like it came straight from The Old Course with its wild random contours. As discussed above and seen below, the long par five fourteenth through a natural valley will require your very best as it plays into the prevailing wind.
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/DLPC14t.JPG)
You'll obviously be seeing a lot more on this course in the months to come. Hopefully, we can get Paul to do a Feature Interview with us in the January timeframe to walk us through the routing process and the design's evolution.
In the meanwhile, everyone at Love Design deserves congratulations as they begin to wrap this one up.
Cheers,
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Is this course something the Republicans can point to as one of the trade benefits of NAFTA? ;)
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Is this course something the Republicans can point to as one of the trade benefits of NAFTA? ;)
I don't know about that, Mike, but I can certainly say that threads like this are one of the things I can point to as one of the great benefits of participating on GoflClubAtlas.com. So great to see a new course as it is created, and then to hear from one of the architects.
Mr. Cowley, congratulations on a job that must have been very fulfilling !
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Thank you Kirk....the job has been fulfilling...and exciting, exasperating, and exhausting!
It's a fantastic site of which we won't likely see the likes of again....in a country where building something can be a unique experience all in itself.
My oft repeated mantra is that "I have to go there twice as much to get half as much done".
Its true.....I think I have made close to 45 trips there in the last two and a half years!
I do appreciate your compliment, but can only accept a portion of it.
Love Golf Design....which consists of Davis and Mark Love, Bob Spence and myself....is very much a design team, of which all members contribute in measure.
If and when we do a feature interview as Ran has suggested, I think that this relationship will be interesting to bring out....especially as to the evolution of this course in particular.
Tom Doak, posting on the Rock Creek Cattle thread, describes a similar relationship within his company while talking about the creation of the routing for the course.
I find these collaborations of talent very interesting.....from the Pine Valleys of the past, to the Sebonaks of today.
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Thought I would post a few additional images to add a different perspective on what Ran has already posted. Unfortunately, they don't match Ran's for quality.....
This is the par-3 11th, just after grassing. This image will hopefully provide a sense of size and scale for the green.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o197/lovegolfdesign/CIMG2573.jpg)
A view from the tee of the par-4 15th. From the back tee, this hole will play right around 400 yds. into the prevailing wind. The fairway is nearly 100 yds. wide in the landing area and it does provide a ground game option if played along the left side.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o197/lovegolfdesign/cabo15close7-08copy.jpg)
Bonus image- I just like this view of the green at the short, 135 yardish par-3 16th. This green was shaped in and around the three native dunes and is larger than it appears. It also features a nice bailout area left and long to accomodate the prevailing wind.
(http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o197/lovegolfdesign/cabo167-08copy.jpg)
Thanks to Ran for taking the time to visit Diamante and thinking enough of it to post a few pics. The last one he posted of #14 should explain the addition of a 600 yd. back tee on a hole that plays into the prevailing wind. The wind doesn't blow every day and how could you not expose players to that view.
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The pictures and views really look wonderful, but could someone involved in the project comment on the playability with a strong prevailing wind. I see "drift" fences in the foreground of the 16th green.
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The pictures and views really look wonderful, but could someone involved in the project comment on the playability with a strong prevailing wind. I see "drift" fences in the foreground of the 16th green.
Henry, Rather than force Paul or Señor McKenzie to spew a "company line" allow me to take a shot at it while admitting I am the #1 fan of the course at present time.
Like any seaside course wind will be a factor virtually every single day. That said the course is designed with that in mind and with the infrequent but not uncommon changes in wind direction the golf staff will be well schooled on how to set up the course for each condition.
Inevitably there will be days that some find too harsh to play whilst many will relish the conditions as "the way seaside golf was meant to be played" and who is to say which faction is correct?
If you do not want to play in the wind do not come... If you want a great golf experience akin to the way the game was and continues to be played on the great old courses of Scotland... sign up early.
How is that for ya? Read between the lines draw your own conclusions... but IF given the chance you should play the golf course.
Cheers from Baja Cantina on the Marina!
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Thanks Greg.....good post and live from the Cantina!....I'm getting misty [and thirsty] ;)
HenryE.....the course will play no more difficult than any of the exposed linkside courses anywhere around the world.
Once the wind gets above 30 mph the game becomes one of invention and survival, and this course will be similar in that aspect........but with one very favorable condition:
IT WON'T BE COLD WHEN ITS WINDY AND WET!
On a different train of thought....
I have on numerous occasions tried to imagine other courses that were built on similar terrain, and under similar conditions. It is a pretty unique and bold site that has at times required a similarly unique and bold approach in its construction.
So far the course that I feel might be closest in comparison would be Cypress Point. I'm basing this on the pre and post construction photos, and from what I have read and observed first hand on its site.
The exposed and sandy areas of Cypress were pretty raw and wild....and our site starts to sting bare skin when the wind gets above 25mph.....but by adding water and grass, Cypress has toned down considerably, and this course will be no different in my opinion.
Throughout construction I have designed with the knowledge that this course will be constantly changing, and I have tried not to get hung up on any idea of permanence when it comes to certain features or surfaces.....we have even designed the cart paths to be movable [they are all RR ties laid next to each other and perpendicular to direction of travel].
It is going to be very interesting to see how this course morphs over the years!
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Thanks guys. I have stayed just south of there a number of times in Pedregal on the pacific side. The sands are very fine there, hence my concern. I'm sure you've both spent substantially more time there than me and know the conditions in the prevailing wind. The dunes are beautiful and seemingly endless. Best of luck with the course, Paul.
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Thanks Bob.....good post and live from the Cantina!....I'm getting misty [and thirsty] ;)
HenryE.....the course will play no more difficult than any of the exposed linkside courses anywhere around the world.
Once the wind gets above 30 mph the game becomes one of invention and survival, and this course will be similar in that aspect........but with one very favorable condition:
IT WON'T BE COLD WHEN ITS WINDY AND WET!
On a different train of thought....
I have on numerous occasions tried to imagine other courses that were built on similar terrain, and under similar conditions. It is a pretty unique and bold site that has at times required a similarly unique and bold approach in its construction.
So far the course that I feel might be closest in comparison would be Cypress Point. I'm basing this on the pre and post construction photos, and from what I have read and observed first hand on its site.
The exposed and sandy areas of Cypress were pretty raw and wild....and our site starts to sting bare skin when the wind gets above 25mph.....but by adding water and grass, Cypress has toned down considerably, and this course will be no different in my opinion.
Throughout construction I have designed with the knowledge that this course will be constantly changing, and I have tried not to get hung up on any idea of permanence when it comes to certain features or surfaces.....we have even designed the cart paths to be movable [they are all RR ties laid next to each other and perpendicular to direction of travel].
It is going to be very interesting to see how this course morphs over the years!
Bob???? Those whose work I gush over call me Greg! Haven't seen Bob of late but perhpas run into him this evening.
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sorry GREG....I've fixed it.
It was four in the morning though..... ::)
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sorry GREG....I've fixed it.
It was four in the morning though..... ::)
Fortunately for me the Cantina shuts down LOOOOONG before 4:00 or I may have responded sooner. You hearing much about the site adjacent to Diamante? Cristobal... rumor is Norman around here.
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Paul — Looks very cool. I suggest you immediately purchase several miles of sand fence! I speak from experience. Tidal dunes are very recent — maybe only a few thousand years. Wind blows. It moves sand! 8)
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Thank you Forrest.....and I think its interesting to note that our two courses in the Baja Peninsula couldn't be farther apart!....distance wise that is, and
I'm sure they have a hole host of similarities. ;)
Actually sand fence has already become a staple for sand drift control, but usually as a temporary measure until we can re vegetate and stabilize the up wind sand share sources that tend to migrate quite freely when the wind blows above 25mph.
We have three or four holes that are in high sand mobility areas, which I have had serious concerns about from the beginning....enough concern at times to be not quite sure if we should commit the effort to build them....and just as much concern about saddling the future maintenance staff with having to maintain them.
I don't have these fears now, for a variety of reasons:
The existing dune sand was tested and found to be excellent greens mix and topdressing, with an exceedingly high perc rate.....and was good enough that we would not need to amend it with organics, or need to provide any sub surface drainage piping.....in the greens, bunkers or fairways.
Basically the whole site is one of bringing water to where you want to grow grass, add fertilizer and grow!
The grass we chose was a variety of paspalum, "Supreme", that has the ability to be used as the green, fairway and rough.....essentially, since we have only one kind of grass, the type of playing surface we want is determined by cutting height. We are not bound by a green shape or size....we can change it at will, or we can let the wind change it at will! The blowing sand top dresses and raises areas that work well aerodynamically and provide play interest much of the time....in fact throughout the shaping process we would routinely just punk up areas and go away to let the wind finish the shaping work for us.
As I mentioned previously, the ability to have movable cart paths by the use of RR ties was another important part of the flexibility puzzle.
Water is another.....because putting water on the surface reduces its ability to move, and this was driven home to me last year, when by poor planning on my part, I was able to sit through a Cat 1 hurricane.....peak winds maybe reached 100 mph.
After it passed, I made my way to the site expecting a lot of wind blow outs and damage.
Much to my surprise there was none to speak of....in fact it was almost finely polished and looked better than before the storm!
The rain that accompanied the wind held the sand in place, and I learned much about how to use irrigation for erosion control.
Anyway....just a few random thoughts....I'm getting out of here. :)
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Revegetation works — but it also changes the look. "Enough" vegetation usually means full coverage. The physics of sand fence are amazing. A vortex is created on the downwind side. That forms a wind barrier that accumulates sand in a hump. And, from that point, sand continues to build up. The idea is to build a dune using wind — and then add vegetation.
Where are all the para-sailers and street vendors?
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Paul, I think you've outlined a bit why the site might be a bit different from the links courses og GB&I. Lack of rain, makes the sand light and more susceptible to movement.
This may sound crazy to you, but what about the possibility of watering the sand with seawater around your few exposed holes? The salt would prevent anything from growing and the water would keep the sands in place. I guess a concern might be if and when the sands dry out and blow salt could accumulate on the grasses? Truth is your going to get some salt anyway from the Pacific.
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HenryE and the esteemed Mr Richardson:
I appreciate your interesting comments and ideas, but many of our sand problems will be going away in the future when the area of drifting sand coming our way will become fixed in place by the construction of various 4 and 5 story wind buffering structures....accompanied by horizontal surface additions that will seal and cap much of these sand areas. I also understand that some large water filled basins will be Incorporated as well!
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Señor Cowley,
Taking another panelist out to Diamante sometime this weekend. Has everything been grassed? Anything in particular you suggest looking at closely?
Please tell Davis and Mark that they can put me on the payroll at any time and I accept pesos!
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Paul — Looks very cool. I suggest you immediately purchase several miles of sand fence! I speak from experience. Tidal dunes are very recent — maybe only a few thousand years. Wind blows. It moves sand! 8)
Forrest, one thing I really liked at Las Palomas was the railroad tie bunker walls, obviously there to keep sand from blowing out as much as possible. The one behind #4 is particularly cool. Check it out:
(http://www.golfgroupltd.com/images/projects/large_imgs/las_palomas-4.jpg)
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I will definately check it out....almost did about two years ago.....especially as both our courses are in the same neighborhood....but just about 800 miles apart. ;)
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I will definately check it out....almost did about two years ago.....especially as both our courses are in the same neighborhood....but just about 800 miles apart. ;)
Paul, please see my question above.
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Paul, your wall-to-wall Paspalum comment is interesting. Sounds like the camouflage of fescue fairways, collars, and greens, where it's hard to tell where the fairway ends and the green begins. This is a very distinctive feature of Barnbougle Dunes.
Paul and Greg, can you talk more about the playing characteristics of Paspalum being used down there? Greg, are you using it on any of your projects? Does it yield ball marks on greens, how do tee and approach shots react on it, that sort of thing?
Thanks!
Mark
PS Good comments on Nicklaus's designs in Cabo by George Peper in the latest Links Mag...
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added as our first Mexico Photo Tour at:
http://delicious.com/golfclubatlas/Mexico (http://delicious.com/golfclubatlas/Mexico)
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BTW, got a good routing tour of the course next to Diamante this weekend.
May not be as pure of a golf experience but will have 4 or 5 of the most photographed holes built ANYWHERE in the next decade.
Paul the added grass on 17 is a huge improvement.
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sorry GREG....I've fixed it.
It was four in the morning though..... ::)
Fortunately for me the Cantina shuts down LOOOOONG before 4:00 or I may have responded sooner. You hearing much about the site adjacent to Diamante? Cristobal... rumor is Norman around here.
Hate to answer my own question but not Norman but under the current ownership/master plan David Kidd is slated to do the course immediately to the north of Diamante.
BTW not the same course as noted in the post immediately preceding this one. That will be a Nicklaus course under the direction of Señor Lipe. Special stuff.
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Any grown in updates? I've never been to Mexico, but this course & commentary may provide the necessary motivation to risk Montezuma's Revenge.
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Looks great, thanks for sharing
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Nick, cary.....I wish I could give you an update, but I haven't been to the site since August....right about the time of this thread.
Lehman Bros was the lender and the plug was pulled about that same time.
I understand new funding has been arranged, and I might be getting back to finish in Feb/March.
But.....these times are strange. I'll let you know soon after my feet feel touch Mex dirt once again.
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Paul,
I'm very bummed about the last post and I feel for you on this one.
The course looked really interesting - possibly the site of a lifetime - and I imagine you were pretty excited with it being so close to being ready for play.
I sincerly hope everything comes together real soon so you can get this one open.
Regards,
Ian
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Paul:
I can't imagine how I completely missed this entire thread but I sure did (even though I did get those few photos from you some months ago). I know how much you've raved about this site and its possibilities and I can definitely see why.
This whole issue of the massive sand areas really fascinates me. It looks something like Cypress in the beginning but with far more surrounding sand area. You know what they say about not screwing around with Mother Nature----eg that site looks like that adage in spades. What an amazing look though!
Also, I've got to say, I can't imagine that any Golden Age era course ever done in an environment like that had anything over what you guys have done there!
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Paul,
Great looking stuff!
Lester
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Thanks guys.
When finished the course should be quite special........hell, the sites already quite special without a golf course! ;)