Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Dean Stokes on May 17, 2008, 11:10:57 AM
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What is the concencus on GCA about the chances of 10 handicappers breaking 100 on the Open set up?
I have never been there and do not know if it will play as tough as say Oakmont, Winged Foot or Shinnecock - where I do not believe a 10 handicap could break 100 at strokeplay.
I still don't think they will have a chance at Torrey but wondered what y'all thought.
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Dean, With the cameras and the whole circus, I don't think so. Maybe if he was just playing with his golf buddies he has a decent shot.
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The answer is no, no, and again no at any U. S. Open course. For example, any time I looked back for the tournament tees at Shinnecock they were inevitably 50 yards back on all but the one-shot holes. The native grass was low as the season was just beginning and the greens were a modest pace. The weather was awful and as a 12 handicap I didn't make a par.
If there's one true advertising slogan in this country it's "These guys are good."
Mike
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Of the 4 participants in the NBC thing, I think only Romo has a good shot. Apparently he's a very good golfer, having played in US Open qualifiers, and the outside pressures shouldn't affect him as much (as long as the Giant D is not there... :)).
I will say, just from viewing on TV, Torrey would appear to be one of the only Open venues where they'd even have a prayer. Even then, I say no.
I'd hate to see any 10 handicapper play TP 16-18 under Open conditions and TV pressure.
To everyone -
If you were trying to do it, would you change your normal strategy at all, or would you simply try to play your normal game and hope for the best?
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If the goal was simply to break 100, I would probably just hit irons off the tee all the way around (with a rare exception or two) and avoid the big number material.
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I think at least one will break 100 and probably more. If they simply try to break 100, then they have a good shot. If they get greedy and try to shoot 85, then they could shoot 110.
We got to play Quail Hollow the morning after the tournament a couple of years ago, before they cut the rough or moved the pins or anything. Granted, that is not quite a US Open setup, but the winning score of 277 was not far from what the Open produces. Also, it was soaking wet and 7400 yards and the rough was impossible that year. Anyway, everyone was between a 6 and an 11 hdcp and nobody broke 90, BUT nobody came close to going over 100 either. It was just a bogey slog with an occasional double or triple and an occasional lucky par. Everyone gravitated around 92 or so when it was all said and done (including the guy who magically birdied 1, 2 and 7).
Each Open is different and I doubt any normal 10 could break 100 at Oakmont or that crazy setup at Shinnecock, but I think they have a shot at Torrey. We will see.
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I don't know anything about the contest, but Romo will break 80. The guy is a pretty well-seasoned amateur golfer. T34th at The Azalea ( I think) with a 69 and an 80 or something like that. He just needs to show up to break 100.
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I don't know anything about the contest, but Romo will break 80. The guy is a pretty well-seasoned amateur golfer. T34th at The Azalea ( I think) with a 69 and an 80 or something like that. He just needs to show up to break 100.
Break 80?????? Glenn come on now.........There will be tour players can't break 80 and he's not nearly a tour player.
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If the goal was simply to break 100, I would probably just hit irons off the tee all the way around (with a rare exception or two) and avoid the big number material.
Problem with that strategy is that if you miss an iron or put it on the wrong side of the hole you're boned.
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I think this is a great exercise because it will show how far us mere mortals are from the Tour players. Romo has no hope of breaking 80. I think he'll break a 100 though depending on what kind of player he is. Is he that hits it long and crooked and plays where he can get away with that? If so, he'll struggle mightily. He doesn't play consistently enough. His rounds at the Azalea were something like 79, 70, 80, 69. And, isn't the Azalea played on a relatively short course (with probably little tough)? The rest of them don't stand a chance at breaking 100. 7,600 yards is freaking long!!!! Plus, the pressure they will be feeling will be huge. With bogey and double bogey they will be inching themselves closer to 100 line. The rough will be brutal. The regular Joe guy will have never played on the greens that fast even if they are only an 11. He will under read a lot of putts because of the speed.
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If the goal was simply to break 100, I would probably just hit irons off the tee all the way around (with a rare exception or two) and avoid the big number material.
Assuming you could reach the fairway....
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Assuming you could reach the fairway....
Yikes!
Ouch, this is gonna hurt
Peter
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I think this is a great exercise because it will show how far us mere mortals are from the Tour players. Romo has no hope of breaking 80. I think he'll break a 100 though depending on what kind of player he is. Is he that hits it long and crooked and plays where he can get away with that? If so, he'll struggle mightily. He doesn't play consistently enough. His rounds at the Azalea were something like 79, 70, 80, 69. And, isn't the Azalea played on a relatively short course (with probably little tough)? The rest of them don't stand a chance at breaking 100. 7,600 yards is freaking long!!!! Plus, the pressure they will be feeling will be huge. With bogey and double bogey they will be inching themselves closer to 100 line. The rough will be brutal. The regular Joe guy will have never played on the greens that fast even if they are only an 11. He will under read a lot of putts because of the speed.
Why is he going to show up then? Let's see. Quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys, famous around the world, busy with all of that and finds time to work on his golf game and show quite well at The Azalea. There is an abundance of talent needed to do those things, he won't have any problems at all. It is not as if there is some hidden mystery to Torrey Pines.
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I don't know anything about the contest, but Romo will break 80. The guy is a pretty well-seasoned amateur golfer. T34th at The Azalea ( I think) with a 69 and an 80 or something like that. He just needs to show up to break 100.
Break 80?????? Glenn come on now.........There will be tour players can't break 80 and he's not nearly a tour player.
I will bet you a dollar that not one exempt tour player doesn't not break 80.
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Glen,
Done.
Bob
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Ok, Bob. Remember, they get two rounds.
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If the goal was simply to break 100, I would probably just hit irons off the tee all the way around (with a rare exception or two) and avoid the big number material.
Problem with that strategy is that if you miss an iron or put it on the wrong side of the hole you're boned.
That's right. Also, you're going to be hitting an awful lot of irons. Probably three full ones on just about every par 4. 3 to 4 on the par 5's. Can a 10 handicap hit 3 nearly perfect irons in a row, on a U.S. Open course and setup that is 7500 yards long with ribbon-like fairways? If he doesn't he's in the rough or bunkers.
Glenn -- what if Romo brings his "80 at Azalea" game to Torrey? He shot that half the time there. What do you think he will score if he plays like that at Torrey, which is probably going to be much, much tougher.
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If the goal was simply to break 100, I would probably just hit irons off the tee all the way around (with a rare exception or two) and avoid the big number material.
Problem with that strategy is that if you miss an iron or put it on the wrong side of the hole you're boned.
That's right. Also, you're going to be hitting an awful lot of irons. Probably three full ones on just about every par 4. 3 to 4 on the par 5's. Can a 10 handicap hit 3 nearly perfect irons in a row, on a U.S. Open course and setup that is 7500 yards long with ribbon-like fairways? If he doesn't he's in the rough or bunkers.
Glenn -- what if Romo brings his "80 at Azalea" game to Torrey? He shot that half the time there. What do you think he will score if he plays like that at Torrey, which is probably going to be much, much tougher.
Well, I don't think 80 at CC of Charleston will translate to U.S. Open Torrey Pines very well. One round is not the best barometer, in my opinion. There are a lot of factors, but, I just don't think he will have that much trouble. He must have an awful lot of game to do what he has been able to do on the golf course. If he cares about this side-show, I think his game will be there. I played Torrey Pines and didn't see a whole lot to figure out. Why shouldn't he break 80? 100 is just a joke for someone like Romo. I could see someone of his ilk getting into a little bit of trouble at Shinnecock or Oakmont on the wrong day, but that isn't going to happen at Torrey Pines.
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I don't know anything about the contest, but Romo will break 80. The guy is a pretty well-seasoned amateur golfer. T34th at The Azalea ( I think) with a 69 and an 80 or something like that. He just needs to show up to break 100.
Break 80?????? Glenn come on now.........There will be tour players can't break 80 and he's not nearly a tour player.
I will bet you a dollar that not one exempt tour player doesn't not break 80.
Glenn, there are exempt tour players who don't break 80 at regular tour events. Even though I have never seen Torrey, the USGA are going to try and save par and that will cause players to shoot in the 80's. I'll take your bet all day long. As for Romo, I have never seen him play nor do I know his handicap. However talented he is, which he obviously is, being an average handicap golfer is not nearly enough to get you round a US Open venue. He will not nearly break 80 but I think out of the 4 he could be the one to break 100. We will see.
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I don't know anything about the contest, but Romo will break 80. The guy is a pretty well-seasoned amateur golfer. T34th at The Azalea ( I think) with a 69 and an 80 or something like that. He just needs to show up to break 100.
Break 80?????? Glenn come on now.........There will be tour players can't break 80 and he's not nearly a tour player.
I will bet you a dollar that not one exempt tour player doesn't not break 80.
Glenn, there are exempt tour players who don't break 80 at regular tour events. Even though I have never seen Torrey, the USGA are going to try and save par and that will cause players to shoot in the 80's. I'll take your bet all day long. As for Romo, I have never seen him play nor do I know his handicap. However talented he is, which he obviously is, being an average handicap golfer is not nearly enough to get you round a US Open venue. He will not nearly break 80 but I think out of the 4 he could be the one to break 100. We will see.
Dean,
My bet is that there will not be an exempt player that posts two rounds in the 80's. That will not happen. It hardly ever does. You will lose that bet. Romo is a +1 at Dallas National or something like that. He could break 100 with his eyes closed. he is not average in any way. I don't even think he is a part of the bet. I think he is the celebrity guest or something like that. There is 0 chance that he will not break 100.
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7 guys shot 2 rounds in the 80's last year at freaking Oakmont!!! None of them were exempt players, to my knowledge, unless Ryan Palmer was exempt last year.
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Glenn, if Torrey proves as tough this year as Oakmont was last year, do you think Romo will break 80?
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Jim,
Do you expect Torrey Pines to play the same as Oakmont? ;D Oakmont is as tough as we have and only seven guys failed to do it. None of them near exempt status. My bet really is an easy winner.
I still think he can, yes. That is 10 over par. This US Open is a glorified tour event with smaller fairways. I think the winner will be well under par, well under. Cabrera was 5 over.
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4 scores in the 80's last year at Torrey Pines. 400 and some rounds and 4 of them were in the 80's. I don't think the USGA can make it THAT tough.
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I agree that no exempt player will shoot two rounds in the 80's. Romo willl not break 80 however. So our bets will be equal. 8)
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Torrey Pines is no Oakmont. I think Oakmont is one of the most difficult courses in the world! It would be interesting to see the scores if they had this challenge last year at Oakmont. As far as the players, whoever was selected as the average joe will not break a 100. The average joe is use to playing a local course at 6100 yards, with wide fairways, slow greens, and average rough. The length alone could make the average joe shoot over a 100. Justin Timberlake is suppose to be a decent golfer, but these conditions could cause higher scores. Matt Lauer is suppose to be around a 7 handicap but I don't see him breaking a 100. Tony Romo is a very good golfer who is use to playing courses that have a lot of length and are set up in a tournament format. I believe he will shoot in the 80's. Most people do not realize that a golf course is set up very different during tournaments. Length is a huge factor. Greens are usually double cut and rolled. The rough is a lot thicker. And the fairways sometimes tightened. Not to mention pin placement can be a major factor.
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FWIW, I have attempted to play a 7800 yd. course. I was at Kinderlou Forest in Valdosta, GA last fall, and on the second round of 36 hole day, decided I would go to the tips just to see what it was like. I lasted less than nine holes before I moved up; it was completely unplayable for me.
For reference, my index at that time was approx. 4.5, and while I'm no monster off the tee, length is not usually a problem. I often couldn't reach the fairways, even with driver; irons would have been completely out of the question. When I could reach the fairway, I couldn't get to the corner of the doglegs anyway.
And this was w/o Open rough and greens running 12 or 13, plus the added pressure of media, etc. AND, we were on the back end of an historic drought here, so that the course was running really fast.
In sum, I vote nobody (including Romo) breaks 85, and it wouldn't surprise me if nobody broke 90 either day.
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As an aside here -- the guy who is "not famous" is from my fine state and hails from Omaha. He appears to be a good story. He rolled through the popular vote on Golf Digest. He is in his late 30s and has inoperable lung cancer -- he has never smoked in his life. I hope he finds it inside him somewhere to shoot 99. Bob Rotella will be his caddie.
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Glenn, while Oakmont was par 70, Torrey is par 71. One less stroke Romo can lose and still break 80. (Which I think he won't.)
As for the winning score at the Open: even at this year's Buick, only three players besides Tiger shot under 280. 2nd place shot 277. For the Open the course will be longer. Fairways narrower. Rough vastly deeper and thicker. Greens faster, supposedly stimping around 13. What about the winds? Seems like I read they are tougher in June as well.
Tiger's knee and lack of playing make him a question mark at this point. Even par is 284. If that's the winning score, it will be virtually the same as at Oakmont last year.
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I don't even think he is a part of the bet. I think he is the celebrity guest or something like that. There is 0 chance that he will not break 100.
Glenn:
Exactly! The assertion by Tiger that spawned this is that a 10 couldn't do it, not a competitive plus-handicap amateur. He is just there to increase TV ratings and provide a measuring stick for better players.
But I don't think he'll break 80.
Sobe
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If it is indeed US Open conditions, I'd be VERY surprised if Romo is able to break 80 in this event. As a diehard Eagles fan, I hope he shoots 107. ;D
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I played Toorey Pines South from the set of tees up from the tips about 2 years ago and the rough was easy to get an iron on and advance the ball. I think even a good golfer in the scratch to 5 handicap range will have a very tough time breaking 80 at Torrey. I am a 10 handicap and with some good length off the tee, I played it down lost one ball and shot 88 from the blue tees. If I had played the tips I would have been really happy to break 100. This major is setup for a guy like TIger becasue Fred Funk can drive it like he is shooting an arrow but, it doesn't matter you hit it 270 in the middle of the fairway and you still have 230 to the hole with a 3 wood.
From the tips they can stretch this course to like 7800 yards and I am telling you if they grow the rough up and you miss just one or two drives during the round and it flairs out about 200 off the tee your not going to get to the green. They have some par 4's that I swear to God look like par 5's from the tips seriously - it is really kind of scary if this is what golf is coming to with regard to length. The common man golfer that dominates their local club is not used to this arena it is way out of their league during a competition. They might have one good round shoot 75 and then follow it up with an 85 or higher the next day.
Rees has tweaked the greens and bunkers so that the presentation of the course is like a US Open venue and with thick 3" to 4" thick rough these guys will be working damn hard to make bogey. Remember Bethpage Black that course was not a pushover and it tested the players. Tiger may beat this course down during the Buick every year but, I am thinking come US Open Sunday about 4-7 under wins. Are they going to play the course Par 70 or Par 72?
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As for Glenns bet, I think he is right. An exempt PGA player may shoot 80+ on one day, but not likely 2 days in a row...they're just too good for that and is I guess the reason why they are exempt on Tour.
I'll bet a dollar, or two or whatever that Romo doesn't break 80. Any takers? I do think he'll break 90 though. Perhaps I would get more action on betting for Romo to break 90 or not.
When is the round by the way? Pete you going to be our eyes on the ground for this or will it be top secret and have to wait until Sunday of the US Open to see the result? ;D
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When is the round by the way? Pete you going to be our eyes on the ground for this or will it be top secret and have to wait until Sunday of the US Open to see the result? ;D
They are supposed to play one week before the Open with "a select group of 200 spectators following them". I have not yet received my invitation.
As I said on the Torrey report thread, right now it would be doable, definetly not easy but possible due to the current condition of the greens. If they are firmed up and get 4 feet quicker I just don't see it happening. The rough is a pure hack out right now; there is actual talk of lowering it from the 5 inchs it measures now. It still takes a lot of straight shots to cover 7600 yards.
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When is the round by the way? Pete you going to be our eyes on the ground for this or will it be top secret and have to wait until Sunday of the US Open to see the result? ;D
They are supposed to play one week before the Open with "a select group of 200 spectators following them". I have not yet received my invitation.
As I said on the Torrey report thread, right now it would be doable, definetly not easy but possible due to the current condition of the greens. If they are firmed up and get 4 feet quicker I just don't see it happening. The rough is a pure hack out right now; there is actual talk of lowering it from the 5 inchs it measures now. It still takes a lot of straight shots to cover 7600 yards.
Pete,
Well seeing how that invitation is likely "lost in the mail", I suppose you could get in one of those paragliders rigs, put a fan on the back and crash the party by providing some "aerial" coverage. ;D
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Pete,
Based on your post - I don't care who is playing 80 wil be a career round at Torrey South from the tips with 5" rough, narrow fairways and greens that are rollig in the 11-12 range on the stimp.
If they are playing a week before the US Open this will the ultimate test. Before any even especially a major zero play is allowed on the course for about 2 weeks to a full month in preparation for playing conditions to be perfect leading up to the tournament. 200 spectators will also be tough for someone not used to playing around a good size group following.
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I am curious... is the player in question going to be get a US course handicap of 10 from the tips at Torrey? That would mean he's an 8 point something index.... Which would be significantly different from a 10 index...
My feeling has always been that either way, his chances of a double digit score will not be good. But if they select an 8 point something index who's played a little tournament golf, well... that person would have a fighting chance.
Thus I want to know more about the player himself before I make my call.
I say Romo shoots somewhere in the high 70s. Maybe he gets it under. He is a player, and as much as conditions will be tough, it will be still just a funsy round, not the actual US Open. Put him in that and the collar does tighten, I think.
TH
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So Tom,
You want some action on that bet then? I say Romo won't even sniff 80, much less something in the 70s...85 is about the closest he gets. ;D
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Make the number 85 and I'll take the under.
TH
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Make the number 85 and I'll take the under.
TH
Ahh come on what happened to the 70s ;D ;D
Ok man, you got yourself a deal Over/Under at 85, I'm picking over. Whats the bet? ;)
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My first post was poorly worded. I meant to say he has a CHANCE to shoot high 70s, maybe even lower. But he'll have to play very well to do that. More likely is a number in the low 80s... and if things go bad it could go higher, for sure. Hell a lot can happen in any one golf round. But my feeling remains they picked a guy who's at least somewhat of a competitive golfer, not just a football player dabbling in such. And thus he does have a fighting chance to post a good number.
As for the stakes, hell odds are others get in on this... so let's wait and see.
TH
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TH,
Is it wrong for me to actually admit that I am looking forward to seeing this as much as the actual tournament? ;D
Romo didn't play golf for a week before Open qualifying this year. 42-33-75 at Golf Club of Dallas. His Azalea scores are on page 1 of this thread thanks to Steve Kline. 10 scores all week in the 60's at The Azalea, with a low of 67. Romo had a 69. 77-68-77 T11th at The Celeb thing in Tahoe.
Open Qualifying 2007- 72. 68 got out.
JJ Henry and Harrison Frazar def. Trip Kuehne and Tony Romo 3&2 to open some course in Texas.
2008- Broke up with Jessica Simpson.
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TH,
Is it wrong for me to actually admit that I am looking forward to seeing this as much as the actual tournament? ;D
Romo didn't play golf for a week before Open qualifying this year. 42-33-75 at Golf Club of Dallas. His Azalea scores are on page 1 of this thread thanks to Steve Kline. 10 scores all week in the 60's at The Azalea, with a low of 67. Romo had a 69. 77-68-77 T11th at The Celeb thing in Tahoe.
Open Qualifying 2007- 72. 68 got out.
JJ Henry and Harrison Frazar def. Trip Kuehne and Tony Romo 3&2 to open some course in Texas.
2008- Broke up with Jessica Simpson.
Glenn - there is nothing wrong with that at all. ;D
And scores such as these are what make me think he has a fighting chance to do well in this one round.
TH
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TH,
Romo had a 69. 77-68-77 T11th at The Celeb thing in Tahoe.
Its those scores at Tahoe that really tell the story to me. I mean c'mon playing from the whites, with little rough at Tahoe, and he shoots 2 77's? I'm not seeing it.
However give me Jack Wagner, and I'd put money on him breaking 80 at TP from the tippers. ;D
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TH,
Romo had a 69. 77-68-77 T11th at The Celeb thing in Tahoe.
Its those scores at Tahoe that really tell the story to me. I mean c'mon playing from the whites, with little rough at Tahoe, and he shoots 2 77's? I'm not seeing it.
However give me Jack Wagner, and I'd put money on him breaking 80 at TP from the tippers. ;D
I thought the exact same thing about Tahoe. I just thought wait a second here. It is all washed out by the 3rd 69 at The Azalea though. Cut looming and he fires 69, I like it. I would think Wagner would also have a good chance.
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What is the concencus on GCA about the chances of 10 handicappers breaking 100 on the Open set up?
I have never been there and do not know if it will play as tough as say Oakmont, Winged Foot or Shinnecock - where I do not believe a 10 handicap could break 100 at strokeplay.
I still don't think they will have a chance at Torrey but wondered what y'all thought.
I think Torrey would give a 10 handicapper a much better chance than other Open venues like Winged Foot, but I still think it's a real longshot. The best strategy would be to play like an old man and hit it short and straight and hopefully make some putts. There are some holes, however, where hitting the fairway will be very problematic. Then there's the issue of the rough. Even if the rough is "only" 5 inches deep, a 10 handicapper will have a real hard time hitting it more than forty yards. Finally, you have the green speeds. Luckily, they won't be playing on the weekend, where the greens will probably stimp at 14 or so. Even at 12, it will be murder, because those set-up guys working for the USGA know every impossible-to-read putt on every green. I'd bet a hundred bucks that none of the 10's will break 100.
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If it is indeed US Open conditions, I'd be VERY surprised if Romo is able to break 80 in this event. As a diehard Eagles fan, I hope he shoots 107. ;D
i'll be looking for you in the gallery JES with a Jessica Simpson mask on ;)
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TH,
Romo had a 69. 77-68-77 T11th at The Celeb thing in Tahoe.
Its those scores at Tahoe that really tell the story to me. I mean c'mon playing from the whites, with little rough at Tahoe, and he shoots 2 77's? I'm not seeing it.
However give me Jack Wagner, and I'd put money on him breaking 80 at TP from the tippers. ;D
wasn't Wagner the guy at one of the celeb tournaments a few years ago
who was going for a course record or something and totally screwed up the last hole??
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Not sure about the record part.
But yes Jack Wagner does play the Tahoe celeb event every year and is a fine golfer. And to boot, recently he's been rumored to have been dating his Melrose Place love interest Heather Locklear.
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Not sure about the record part.
But yes Jack Wagner does play the Tahoe celeb event every year and is a fine golfer. And to boot, recently he's been rumored to have been dating his Melrose Place love interest Heather Locklear.
If that is the case, he should not be screwing around with events like this.
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If it is indeed US Open conditions, I'd be VERY surprised if Romo is able to break 80 in this event. As a diehard Eagles fan, I hope he shoots 107. ;D
i'll be looking for you in the gallery JES with a Jessica Simpson mask on ;)
Jamie has the legs to pull it off, but not the...ahem... upper torso. :)
I'll take the over with Romo and 85, I'll take the over with everyone else at 100.
Huck, you're a tournament tested sub 5 index, no? Do you think you'd break 100 under this setup? 90?
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If it is indeed US Open conditions, I'd be VERY surprised if Romo is able to break 80 in this event. As a diehard Eagles fan, I hope he shoots 107. ;D
i'll be looking for you in the gallery JES with a Jessica Simpson mask on ;)
Jamie has the legs to pull it off, but not the...ahem... upper torso. :)
I'll take the over with Romo and 85, I'll take the over with everyone else at 100.
Huck, you're a tournament tested sub 5 index, no? Do you think you'd break 100 under this setup? 90?
Very funny George. ;D
Ms. Simpson is indeed "gifted". ;)
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George:
At one point in my life I could perhaps call myself a somewhat competitive player. That time is LONG ago, if it ever really existed at all. I am right now a 3.8 index who plays once a month if he's lucky and never practices.
So I suck and I am not the issue. An 8 point something index who plays a LOT - including a lot of competitive golf - would do far better at this event than I would.
I'd like to think though that if a double digit score was my sole and only goal - as it would be, I guess - I could do it. Again, I'd play as conservatively as possible, and hope for a good ball-striking day. I'll say the same for the right type of 10 handicapper.
Romo is a LOT LOT LOT better player than I am.
And I will continue to take the under on 85 for him.
TH
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I don't think Romo will break 80...I'm guessing he'll shoot 85-87, something like that. A 10-handicapper would never break 100 on a US Open course. I'm not sure why this is even up for debate, is it because Tiger brought it up last year at Oakmont?
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Is there something wrong with the math on this board or the handicap system. Romo is a +1 and that is 11 shots different than a 10 handicap. If he shoots in the 80's, the other guys should be breaking 100.
Romo shot 69 in the Azalea, there were 10 scores in the 60's that week including his 69. I would think the same field would post at least 10 scores of 74 or better on Torrey Pines, so there should be plenty of room for him to break 80, if he plays reasonably well.
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George:
At one point in my life I could perhaps call myself a somewhat competitive player. That time is LONG ago, if it ever really existed at all. I am right now a 3.8 index who plays once a month if he's lucky and never practices.
Huck,
This is the saddest thing I've ever heard. You spend more time on this web site than you do playing!
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Glenn - are you a plus handicap? I have been one for virtually 14 years with a low of +4 last year. Last week I played in the Carlton Woods Invitational - a tournament for Mid-Ams. We played two courses at 7,200 yards (400 less than Torrey Pines). There was virtually no rough on either course we played, the fairways were very wide imo, and the greens ran 13 the first day and 11-12 the next two days after some rain. These, courses have more water than Torrey so there was more of a chance for big numbers. While not everyone in the field was a plus handicap, these were all very good players - most guys had played in the Mid-Am and/or U.S. Am at least once and some were winners of the Texas state Am or Mid-Am. The average score for the three days was virtually 80.
The Azalea is played on a 6,600 yard course. I cannot stress enough how much an extra 1,000 yards will hurt Romo or any other golfer. One can easily recover from a missed drive on a 6,600 yard course. On a 7,600 yard course it is an automatic bogey and a very good chance at a double. I am on the short side off the tee (about 260-5 average) as virtually everyone I play with in top Mid-Am events drives it by me. I can hardly imagine 7,600 yards. I did play #2 from the Open tees 3 times last year. The course was soft, with no roll in the fairways and the greens were holding. Three par 4s every round I busted drives (for me) and every round I had three wood to the green. Now keep in mind the greens were soft so my long irons were holding and there was little rough. The greens were relatively slow which made chipping and putting easy. I shot 76, 75, 75. In U.S. Open conditions I don't see myself breaking 80 unless my short game is really, really on. All of that is to say that I think Romo has virtually no chance of breaking 80. 7,600 yards!!! Again, I say 7,600 yards!!! That is insane length for virtually anyone to play a golf course.
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Steve, you are now up there with Jamie, Sully and MWP as a top tourney player whose opinion I will seek to read whenever possible.
Glenn, I'm amazed you focus on the 69 and ignore the big numbers. I would think the biggest single difference between a scratch or even a plus golfer and the tour pros would be consistency. I'd guess a lot of scratch/plus golfers have had an occasional round in the 60s in tournaments, but those are probably not the rule.
On a one shot deal, I say there's little chance Romo breaks 85. Give him a few cracks at it and I'd say he might through a couple low 80s - or even better - out there, but for a single round, I'm betting 85 or over.
A few years ago Johnny Bench and Mike Schmidt thought they were going to waltz onto the Senior Tour. They learned quickly how good these guys are.
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I think a 10 handicap could break 100 on a US Open course, if he manages his game right. I honestly think I could break 90 somewhat easily. The par 3's are not going to be overly hard, no 300 yarders like at Oakmont last year. I see no reason why a 10 handicap person who plays as if they have a brain and plays away from trouble and such can't shoot below 100, not reason at all. (assuming this person is a legit 10, and not a 18 who post only his low scores because of ego)
--Steve--is 7600 really that hard?? I mean, if it was 18 straight holes that were 425 yards (that equals 7650) would it still be stupidly difficult?
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Glenn - are you a plus handicap? I have been one for virtually 14 years with a low of +4 last year. Last week I played in the Carlton Woods Invitational - a tournament for Mid-Ams. We played two courses at 7,200 yards (400 less than Torrey Pines). There was virtually no rough on either course we played, the fairways were very wide imo, and the greens ran 13 the first day and 11-12 the next two days after some rain. These, courses have more water than Torrey so there was more of a chance for big numbers. While not everyone in the field was a plus handicap, these were all very good players - most guys had played in the Mid-Am and/or U.S. Am at least once and some were winners of the Texas state Am or Mid-Am. The average score for the three days was virtually 80.
The Azalea is played on a 6,600 yard course. I cannot stress enough how much an extra 1,000 yards will hurt Romo or any other golfer. One can easily recover from a missed drive on a 6,600 yard course. On a 7,600 yard course it is an automatic bogey and a very good chance at a double. I am on the short side off the tee (about 260-5 average) as virtually everyone I play with in top Mid-Am events drives it by me. I can hardly imagine 7,600 yards. I did play #2 from the Open tees 3 times last year. The course was soft, with no roll in the fairways and the greens were holding. Three par 4s every round I busted drives (for me) and every round I had three wood to the green. Now keep in mind the greens were soft so my long irons were holding and there was little rough. The greens were relatively slow which made chipping and putting easy. I shot 76, 75, 75. In U.S. Open conditions I don't see myself breaking 80 unless my short game is really, really on. All of that is to say that I think Romo has virtually no chance of breaking 80. 7,600 yards!!! Again, I say 7,600 yards!!! That is insane length for virtually anyone to play a golf course.
I think my lowest was +2. I have not been playing this year and when I have, it has not been pretty. But who cares about handicaps? They don't have anything to do with tournament golf. 7.600 yards is long and tough for you, not for everybody.
Are you seriously comparing the Carlton Invitational to The Azalea? Seriously???? Have you played Torrey Pines? There is basically no chance to 3-putt out there. I didn't 3-putt once at Junior World and I am the worst putter in the world.
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Steve, you are now up there with Jamie, Sully and MWP as a top tourney player whose opinion I will seek to read whenever possible.
Glenn, I'm amazed you focus on the 69 and ignore the big numbers. I would think the biggest single difference between a scratch or even a plus golfer and the tour pros would be consistency. I'd guess a lot of scratch/plus golfers have had an occasional round in the 60s in tournaments, but those are probably not the rule.
On a one shot deal, I say there's little chance Romo breaks 85. Give him a few cracks at it and I'd say he might through a couple low 80s - or even better - out there, but for a single round, I'm betting 85 or over.
A few years ago Johnny Bench and Mike Schmidt thought they were going to waltz onto the Senior Tour. They learned quickly how good these guys are.
George,
Put yourself in Romo's shoes for a little bit. Dallas QB out there with all eyes on him, having to play golf with some of the best young players this country has and he comes up with a 69. Only 4 scores or so lower all week. A lot of scratch players shoot in the 60's at tournaments. They are called the State Amateur and qualifying events. Have you ever seen the scores that most athletes shoot when they are given exemptions like these? Jordan, Rypien, the list goes on and on. Shooting a 69 in your first attempt at a national tournament like The Azalea says an awful lot about what kind of player you are. Especially, when the course only gives up a few scores lower than that.
I played with Johnny Bench in an Open qualifier once. Nice guy and all, but his hands might have been a bit too big for golf. ;D
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I think Romo breaks 100, but the GD winner doesn't. That rough is tough stuff and those fairways are narrow. plus all the pressure.
I just want to also go on record and say - who really cares what Randy Random from Muskogee would shoot at torrey tricked up for an open? I'd rather see him tackle Oakmont or WF.
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George,
Put yourself in Romo's shoes for a little bit.
I don't think I have that good of an imagination. :)
I'm not saying he can't do it (break 85), just that I find it very unlikely.
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I don't know anything about the contest, but Romo will break 80. The guy is a pretty well-seasoned amateur golfer. T34th at The Azalea ( I think) with a 69 and an 80 or something like that. He just needs to show up to break 100.
Break 80?????? Glenn come on now.........There will be tour players can't break 80 and he's not nearly a tour player.
I will bet you a dollar that not one exempt tour player doesn't not break 80.
Glenn, there are exempt tour players who don't break 80 at regular tour events. Even though I have never seen Torrey, the USGA are going to try and save par and that will cause players to shoot in the 80's. I'll take your bet all day long. As for Romo, I have never seen him play nor do I know his handicap. However talented he is, which he obviously is, being an average handicap golfer is not nearly enough to get you round a US Open venue. He will not nearly break 80 but I think out of the 4 he could be the one to break 100. We will see.
Dean,
My bet is that there will not be an exempt player that posts two rounds in the 80's. That will not happen. It hardly ever does. You will lose that bet. Romo is a +1 at Dallas National or something like that. He could break 100 with his eyes closed. he is not average in any way. I don't even think he is a part of the bet. I think he is the celebrity guest or something like that. There is 0 chance that he will not break 100.
Glenn
I was considering taking your bet until you instituted the posting two scores rule. I can see an exempt player shooting in the 80s on Thursday and pull out with an "injury" - hence not breaking 80.
Ciao
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Sean,
You are correct. That would be a winner. I guess that should be included in the bet though, to be fair.
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I think there are some other pieces of information that people are forgetting about.
1) Has he even played Torrey Pines before? I would think he is at a disadvantage to start with because I doubt he little if any experience with the course. Thats got to be worth at least 3-4 strokes in local knowledge. How will he deal with the bumpy poa?
2) His playing parters - He'll be playing with some decent names, and being the best player of the bunch I'm sure there will be some gamemanship going on with a bit of ego. He'll likely be pulling out the big stick and going for the risky shots maybe more so than he should otherwise and bringing double or worse into play when he tries the miracle recovery or heroic approach.
3) TV Audience - As one used to not playing his golf in front of the cameras and a gallery, I think it will affect him. For evidence, he shot two 77s from the white tees at the celeb event in Tahoe from the white tees...not good.
All these things added up, and then when we add in what we know. Playing from US Open tips, US Open Rough, US Open Greens, etc, etc... thats good for at least 14-15 extra strokes.
So in the end, he's got a snowballs chance in hell of breaking 80...I'm just not seeing it.
I do think 85 is an interesting over/under and I'm taking the over on that one as well.
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Glenn - are you a plus handicap? I have been one for virtually 14 years with a low of +4 last year. Last week I played in the Carlton Woods Invitational - a tournament for Mid-Ams. We played two courses at 7,200 yards (400 less than Torrey Pines). There was virtually no rough on either course we played, the fairways were very wide imo, and the greens ran 13 the first day and 11-12 the next two days after some rain. These, courses have more water than Torrey so there was more of a chance for big numbers. While not everyone in the field was a plus handicap, these were all very good players - most guys had played in the Mid-Am and/or U.S. Am at least once and some were winners of the Texas state Am or Mid-Am. The average score for the three days was virtually 80.
The Azalea is played on a 6,600 yard course. I cannot stress enough how much an extra 1,000 yards will hurt Romo or any other golfer. One can easily recover from a missed drive on a 6,600 yard course. On a 7,600 yard course it is an automatic bogey and a very good chance at a double. I am on the short side off the tee (about 260-5 average) as virtually everyone I play with in top Mid-Am events drives it by me. I can hardly imagine 7,600 yards. I did play #2 from the Open tees 3 times last year. The course was soft, with no roll in the fairways and the greens were holding. Three par 4s every round I busted drives (for me) and every round I had three wood to the green. Now keep in mind the greens were soft so my long irons were holding and there was little rough. The greens were relatively slow which made chipping and putting easy. I shot 76, 75, 75. In U.S. Open conditions I don't see myself breaking 80 unless my short game is really, really on. All of that is to say that I think Romo has virtually no chance of breaking 80. 7,600 yards!!! Again, I say 7,600 yards!!! That is insane length for virtually anyone to play a golf course.
I think my lowest was +2. I have not been playing this year and when I have, it has not been pretty. But who cares about handicaps? They don't have anything to do with tournament golf. 7.600 yards is long and tough for you, not for everybody.
Are you seriously comparing the Carlton Invitational to The Azalea? Seriously???? Have you played Torrey Pines? There is basically no chance to 3-putt out there. I didn't 3-putt once at Junior World and I am the worst putter in the world.
Am I comparing them? Not really. I have no idea how to compare them since I've never played the Azalea. I'm just saying he shot 69 on a 6,600 yard course. I've never seen the course, but anything that is 6,600 yards is a hell of a lot easier than something 7,600 yards. Plus, I'm sure the rough wasn't anything like Torrey's will be. I shot 70 in the Southeastern Am one year - doesn't mean I would have much chance of breaking 80 at Torrey under those conditions. So he shot 75 in Open qualifying this year. I shot 76 today in qualifying- big whoop. I'd played Torrey about 17 years ago in the Jr. World. It was a dump - other than that I don't remember much.
J. Ken - I think 7,600 is that hard. It just grinds on you. It's not fair to say it's 18 425 yards holes - because it's not. It's a bunch of really long par 4s
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Guys,
I am telling you I played Torrey South 2 years ago after all the changes had been put in place by Rees to add length. To this day, I have never seen a golf course with such long par 4's holes. I played them from the blue tees and they were some of the longest toughest par 4's because the wind was blowing that day and some rain moved in on the back 9. I was thinking about them on the airplane flying back to Tennessee.
Steve you are correct the pros will be tested and for many of them they will card 75 on opening day playing from 7,600 yards with 5" rough and greens rolling 13 stimp. The west coast has been wanting a US Open like Bethpage. When Torrey was awarded the 2008 Open they put in place a plan to put on an first class event the old clubhouse it still in place but, they have a really nice grill room near the putting green and a hotel that is world class overlooking the course. This is not your average muni but, it is owned by the City of San Diego Parks.
If you have never played Torrey South you need to if just to experience the length of this monster. If they only have 3" rough you are not getting it on the green on a poorly hit tee ball and if they grown the rought to 5" and any wind or rain enters the equation 75-77 is a good round. At this length one bad shot = bogey or worse to recover and several bad shots puts you close to 80 real fast.
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Glenn - are you a plus handicap? I have been one for virtually 14 years with a low of +4 last year. Last week I played in the Carlton Woods Invitational - a tournament for Mid-Ams. We played two courses at 7,200 yards (400 less than Torrey Pines). There was virtually no rough on either course we played, the fairways were very wide imo, and the greens ran 13 the first day and 11-12 the next two days after some rain. These, courses have more water than Torrey so there was more of a chance for big numbers. While not everyone in the field was a plus handicap, these were all very good players - most guys had played in the Mid-Am and/or U.S. Am at least once and some were winners of the Texas state Am or Mid-Am. The average score for the three days was virtually 80.
The Azalea is played on a 6,600 yard course. I cannot stress enough how much an extra 1,000 yards will hurt Romo or any other golfer. One can easily recover from a missed drive on a 6,600 yard course. On a 7,600 yard course it is an automatic bogey and a very good chance at a double. I am on the short side off the tee (about 260-5 average) as virtually everyone I play with in top Mid-Am events drives it by me. I can hardly imagine 7,600 yards. I did play #2 from the Open tees 3 times last year. The course was soft, with no roll in the fairways and the greens were holding. Three par 4s every round I busted drives (for me) and every round I had three wood to the green. Now keep in mind the greens were soft so my long irons were holding and there was little rough. The greens were relatively slow which made chipping and putting easy. I shot 76, 75, 75. In U.S. Open conditions I don't see myself breaking 80 unless my short game is really, really on. All of that is to say that I think Romo has virtually no chance of breaking 80. 7,600 yards!!! Again, I say 7,600 yards!!! That is insane length for virtually anyone to play a golf course.
Nicely put Steve. Romo by his own admittance on TV last week said he is a short hitter.
When he looks out at the 23 yard wide fairways that look like bowling alleys, misses one early and takes double, any final score is possible. Most golfers are used to looking at 40,50 and 60 yard wide fairways. A US Open set up takes a lot of game and a helluva lot of tournament experience to navigate.
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I give in. Romo is going to shoot a thousand. Nobody can handle pressure besides Tour professionals and Redstone is an harder golf course than Merion. 7,600 yards is so long that nobody can play it except Tour professionals. Another one, even though only 10 scores were shot in the 60's at the freaking Azalea, it wasn't hard because the course was only 6,600 yards.
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I give in. Romo is going to shoot a thousand. Nobody can handle pressure besides Tour professionals and Redstone is an harder golf course than Merion. 7,600 yards is so long that nobody can play it except Tour professionals. Another one, even though only 10 scores were shot in the 60's at the freaking Azalea, it wasn't hard because the course was only 6,600 yards.
Glad you finally saw the light. :o
Who says no one on GCA ever changes their mind?
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Torrey will not be Oakmont but, it will solidly defend par as a great score. I will say it one last time my prediction is 4-7 under wins. If they get to double digits under par I doubt the course will host another major.
The USGA likes it tough and fair if you hit the fairway you have 4-7 iron into the greens that can hold your shots you miss the fairway and you better hit a good recovery shot close and make a putt to save par. Birdies can be made on this course its just going to be different from the Buick for the US Open.
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I give in. Romo is going to shoot a thousand. Nobody can handle pressure besides Tour professionals and Redstone is an harder golf course than Merion. 7,600 yards is so long that nobody can play it except Tour professionals. Another one, even though only 10 scores were shot in the 60's at the freaking Azalea, it wasn't hard because the course was only 6,600 yards.
Glad you finally saw the light. :o
Who says no one on GCA ever changes their mind?
I was just thinking the same thing Jim. Good to see that conversions can actually happen on GCA.com.
Glenn,
Its a pleasure to have you aboard, and we're glad to add you to the team. ;D ;)
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I am a decent golfer, consistently shoot in the 80's from around 6,600 yards. Last summer I ventured up to Bethpage to play. I was paired with 3 other guys who all wanted to play from the tips, so I said what the hell, I will try it. It was about 7,300 yards. I will tell you I had my best round of my life that day and still shot 96. Now Bethpage is hard, but it was not in US Open conditions. Imagine adding another 300 yards, make the fairways more constricted, thicken the rough and speed up the greens. For most average golfers like myself playing at Bethpage that day, you are constently hitting driver then 3 wood or hybrid except on the par 3's. Even the par 4's feel like par 5's from 7,000+ yards. So the average player shooting from the tips at Torrey, even without tournament conditions, has slim to no chance of breaking 100.
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Reporter: Are you trying to embarrass the 10 handicap golfer?
USGA Official: No, we're trying to identify them.
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The answer is no, no, and again no at any U. S. Open course. For example, any time I looked back for the tournament tees at Shinnecock they were inevitably 50 yards back on all but the one-shot holes. The native grass was low as the season was just beginning and the greens were a modest pace. The weather was awful and as a 12 handicap I didn't make a par.
If there's one true advertising slogan in this country it's "These guys are good."
Mike
Ooooohhh, Shinnecock...nice.
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I agree totally with Rick and I would add only one thing to this thread. Anyone on GCA that has never played in a foursome with 3 pros and I am a 10 handicap golfer will be amazed at the difference in length.
When these pros regardless of their size hit the ball it makes a different sound. They can hit it a country mile because they have great swing mechanics to maximize distance. When I play with these guys and bomb a tee ball with my R5 270-280 yards and then watch as all 3 of these pros blow it by me in the fiarway by 20-40 yards you see the reason for the long holes in a US Open. I am hitting an 8 iron into a 440 yard hole and they are flipping wedges into the greens. You see the need now for 470 to 510 yard par 4's in a US Open?
These guys are really good!!! The fine line between the Nationwide Tour and the PGA Tour is all in chipping and putting and having the mental control to handle the pressure and compete at such a high level every week.
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I give in. Romo is going to shoot a thousand.
I'll take the under ... ;)
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Matt you are exactly correct. The average guy cannot believe how far a skilled, pro can hit the ball. Three weeks ago, I remember Adam Scott hitting a driver- 7 iron onto the green of a 550 yard par 5. Most average players would struggle to hit the green in 3 shots on a 550 yard par 5. I am a relatively big guy about 6'1 200 pounds and I once played with a very good high school player who was about 5'7 tall and watched this kid drill bullets past my 260 yard drives.
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Tony Romo could be a great amateur golfer, he can play a really great round of golf in a top amateur tournament, probably more then once. However, I still give a small chance, about the size of the sweet spot on a 1970’s era 1-iron, of him breaking 80.
First, as much as NBC and the USGA will say that this foursome will be playing under US Open conditions, we all know they won’t be. They will be playing 2 weeks before the Open so the fairways and most definitely the greens will not be close to the final firmness and speed for the tournament weekend. I’ll venture to say the greens will be no faster then an 11, and even that is questionable. Where will the holes be located?
Second, we all know that the USGA protects par for the Open and making birdies is extremely difficult. With the narrow fairways, length of the course and tall rough, I see Romo fighting for pars on most holes and birdies will be viewed flying along the edge of the cliffs.
The Numbers:
• To break 80, he must have no more then 7 bogeys assuming he makes no birdies.
• He needs to keep the ball in the fairway, needing to hit at least 8 fairways (57% - #125 on the PGA Tour is 60%) to have 12 clean approach shots to the greens (including par 3s).
• Of those 12 clean approach shots, he needs to hit the green at least 7 times (58% - #125 on the PGA Tour is 60%) and 2 putt for pars.
• Of the 5 missed approach shots, he needs to scramble for par on 66% (3 - #125 on the PGA Tour is 56%) of them.
• Of the 6 missed fairways, he will need to scramble for pars 17% of the time (1). Scrambling from a missed US Open fairway is far more difficult then a missed GIR assuming a pitch out to the fairway.
Thrown in the possibility of a double-bogey, then each of those numbers above have to improve. A birdie will give some leeway.
As with any golfer playing in the US Open, the ability to make pars is going to come down to keep the ball in the fairway and hitting the center of the greens.
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Nobody has mentioned that San Diego, especially along the coast, is almost always cold and damp in June. If they get a bad day, it could make the course (especially the rough) play even longer. Ever since I heard the Open was going there I thought about the very real chance that viewers on TV might watch all 4 rounds and never see the sun and that is going to be a bit of a shock for those who don't know about "June gloom." Hopefully it won't be as bad as it can be!
I would say if the 10 gets in a bunch of practice rounds (and I am assuming he will) and there is no wind, he's got a chance at breaking 100. If he doesn't have a chance to come up with a good plan for managing the course or if the wind kicks up, forget it.
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Ooooohhh, Shinnecock...nice.
Hey hoser, Hillbilly on Hillbilly sarcasm does not advance our cause.
Think that's something? I recently played a course whose name is ____________ National Golf Club. How do you you like me now?
Your pal. Honestly. No, I really mean it.
Mike
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What do you shoot?????? :) ;) :D ;D >:( ???
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Ooooohhh, Shinnecock...nice.
Hey hoser, Hillbilly on Hillbilly sarcasm does not advance our cause.
Think that's something? I recently played a course whose name is ____________ National Golf Club. How do you you like me now?
Your pal. Honestly. No, I really mean it.
Mike
How was that Norman design, anyway? ;)
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George:
At one point in my life I could perhaps call myself a somewhat competitive player. That time is LONG ago, if it ever really existed at all. I am right now a 3.8 index who plays once a month if he's lucky and never practices.
Huck,
This is the saddest thing I've ever heard. You spend more time on this web site than you do playing!
It's more like this: work takes up 6am-4pm more or less M-Fri. Kids sports plus other parental duties take up 4pm-10pm M-Fri. Kids sports take up damn near all daylight each Sat-Sun. You tell me where I fit in the golf. :'(
As for Romo, I still take the under on 85. If a guy can play football before 100,000 and gazillions on TV, one funsy non-competitive golf round before a few spectators and taped/edited TV ain't gonna faze him. Oh, he'll have his troubles as of course the golf course will be very very difficult. But if a guy can shoot 69s in competition as he has, he can break 80 anywhere. I'm not saying he WILL as a lot can go wrong in any one golf round... but he surely can.
TH
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Huck, a couple things:
1) Many other pro athletes have found that their immunity to pressure in their own sport doesn't translate to the golf course;
and
2) Is there any reason to believe Romo is a better golfer than absolutely any golfer who qualifies for the US Open? There's probably going to be one or two of those guys who shoots in the mid 80s, I see no reason to believe Romo is better than any of them.
Can he do it? Sure. Pete hits on the most likely reason - even though this is billed as Open setup, we all know that a week or two prior can make a big difference. The course won't be quite as firm or fast or nasty. Close, but not quite. A more accurate test, which wouldn't fit into NBC's plans, would be to have them tee it up on the day after.
Will he do it? My money says no - and I'm willing to back it up with that cool hard dollar. :)
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George:
At one point in my life I could perhaps call myself a somewhat competitive player. That time is LONG ago, if it ever really existed at all. I am right now a 3.8 index who plays once a month if he's lucky and never practices.
Huck,
This is the saddest thing I've ever heard. You spend more time on this web site than you do playing!
It's more like this: work takes up 6am-4pm more or less M-Fri. Kids sports plus other parental duties take up 4pm-10pm M-Fri. Kids sports take up damn near all daylight each Sat-Sun. You tell me where I fit in the golf. :'(
As for Romo, I still take the under on 85. If a guy can play football before 100,000 and gazillions on TV, one funsy non-competitive golf round before a few spectators and taped/edited TV ain't gonna faze him. Oh, he'll have his troubles as of course the golf course will be very very difficult. But if a guy can shoot 69s in competition as he has, he can break 80 anywhere. I'm not saying he WILL as a lot can go wrong in any one golf round... but he surely can.
TH
Word for word, exactly where I stand!!!
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Huck, a couple things:
1) Many other pro athletes have found that their immunity to pressure in their own sport doesn't translate to the golf course;
and
2) Is there any reason to believe Romo is a better golfer than absolutely any golfer who qualifies for the US Open? There's probably going to be one or two of those guys who shoots in the mid 80s, I see no reason to believe Romo is better than any of them.
Can he do it? Sure. Pete hits on the most likely reason - even though this is billed as Open setup, we all know that a week or two prior can make a big difference. The course won't be quite as firm or fast or nasty. Close, but not quite. A more accurate test, which wouldn't fit into NBC's plans, would be to have them tee it up on the day after.
Will he do it? My money says no - and I'm willing to back it up with that cool hard dollar. :)
George,
Your point number 2 is easily the most logical approach that I have seen. Makes me wonder about any other person trying, but as TH says, I think Romo's case is a little different. Also, I don't think enough emphasis is being put on Romo's Azalea being his FIRST National tourney. Those are 2 really good rounds of golf that he put together.
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Also, I don't think enough emphasis is being put on Romo's Azalea being his FIRST National tourney. Those are 2 really good rounds of golf that he put together.
That's certainly one way of looking at it. The flip side is that he might have gotten a little lucky in a first outing and a few more tourney results might show he's actually not quite as good as he might appear.
We really don't have any way of knowing which is true.
For my money, we know that every single guy who qualifies for the US Open is a very very good golfer (a great golfer, really, though obviously not great in the "He's one of the greats" sense of the word) , tournament tested and approved. I don't see Romo beating any guy in the field, not yet anyway.
It's also true that the guys that shoot in the 80s at the Open are off their game those days. They're not that caliber of golfer, it's just the nature of the game that any given day you're going to have excellent golfers shoot big numbers. But it's also not a coincidence that those guys tend to be the amateur qualifiers rather than the tour pros.
It's a fun discussion, at any rate. I'm actually looking forward to the little broadcast to see how all 4 guys do.
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The Azalea is only important from a pressure standpoint and I am really happy that he is perceived as being comfortable in the spot light.
The Azalea is not important as a measuring stick unless the fairways were at US Open width of 20 or so yards and it had US Open rough at 4 - 6 inches.
Does anyone think that Romo will drive more accurately then 125th place on the PGA Tour stats?
Does anyone think that Romo will hit more GIR then 125th place on the PGA Tour stats?
7 bogeys ... no more then 7 bogeys ...
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George, in one round of golf anything can happen.
I just will continue to stand by my take, which is this: Romo likely will not break 80, as a lot would have to go his way for that to occur. The course will be very tough and unlike anything he has seen before. But he certainly does have the capability to shoot in the 70s in this silly funsy event (the "pressure" on which escapes me); just as an amateur qualifier for the US Open has the capability to shoot one round in the 60s in the high-pressure atmosphere of the US Open itself (as has occurred plenty of times).
I will take the under on 85; but I don't feel all that strongly about this to put any serious money on it.
TH
ps to Mike - in one round, yes Romo could do all those things. He likely won't but he certainly could.
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I just read in a golf article about the set up at Torrey Pines this year. Appears that Mr Davis, the course setter upper for the USGA, is not as callous as the fella before him.
Fairways will be 29-34 yards wide instead of the usual 24. And the first cut will only be 2 3/4 inches rather than the usual 5 - he said.
All seems a trifle timid for the US Open and surely offers considerable more chance for these guys to break the scoring 80/100 as we have been discussing. >:(
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Dean,
Fairway widths at Torrey are the same they use for the Buick; they don't widen the course after the tournament. I paced off an average fairway, the par 5 9th, on Fri. and it was 26 yards wide. There is a 6 yard wide strip of secondary rough which was shorter than 2 inches. The primary rough is very lush and at least 5 inches deep; total wedge out stuff. You will need to drive the ball accurately to score well.
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I will take the under on 85; but I don't feel all that strongly about this to put any serious money on it.
So you're not willing to match my cool dollar.... :)
Lloyd: Give it me me straight, Mary, what are my chances? 1 in a thousand?
Mary: More like 1 in a million.
Lloyd: So you're telling me there's a chance....
- Dumb and Dumber
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George - sorry - missed that part.
You are on, Mortimer.
Come on Romo!
BTW has the 10 capper been identified yet?
TH
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Hey George,
Get in line, if Huck puts up a buck its going to me...I started the whole 85 under/over thing. ;D
I will agree in principle that its possible for Romo to play his very best golf that day and indeed break 80, its just very very unlikely in my mind that he will actually do so.... and so I rate his chances at the "snowball in hell" level.
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Kalen - you did? I sincerely thought I created that, either here on in IMs.
Oh well, you can have the vigorish - what is that, 10%?
;D
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So Tom,
You want some action on that bet then? I say Romo won't even sniff 80, much less something in the 70s...85 is about the closest he gets. ;D
Ok ok, so I was only half right.....
I suggested 85 as a number first, you were the first one to suggest 85 as an "over/under" combo.
Either way, if your putting a dollar down, I'm first in line taking the over against your under. ;D
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Fair enough. So I accept, and now I am in for two Mortimers.
Come on Romo!
;D
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Yeeehah.
Now I need to put a call in to Jessica Simpson to make sure she gets an invitation and it doesn't get lost in the mail like Petes invitation did. She is Romo's kryptonite.... ;)
Or perhaps the Happy Gilmore route would be more effective. I'd have someone follow along saying "Don't bobble the placement" during his backswing..
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Let's bump this back up now that we've got the scores in:
Romo (2.2 index) - 84
Timberlake (6.0) - 98
Lauer (6.2) - 100
Atkinson (8.1) - 114
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Let's bump this back up now that we've got the scores in:
Romo (2.2 index) - 84
Timberlake (6.0) - 98
Lauer (6.2) - 100
Atkinson (8.1) - 114
Th effect the South course has appears to be logarithmic!
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Romo shot an 84...
I guess 85 as an over/under was pretty dcent. Kudos to Romo for shooting that. Pretty darn good score on a tough layout.
I guess Tiger was right, a 10 would have pretty much no chance to break 100 on a US open layout.
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The answer is no, no, and again no at any U. S. Open course.
Mike
It's good to be Bogey.
Mike
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Who in the hell is Romo??
There's a difference here I doubt has been mentioned. Since I don't know who Romo is I couldn't comment on whether he's capable of breaking 80 on Torrey with a US Open set up. But I would pretty much guarantee if you put Romo in the ACTUAL US OPEN at Torrey he wouldn't have a chance in hell of breaking 80 or probably any other US Open site. Forget the setup, if anyone thinks playing in an actual US Open wouldn't add shots to a guy like Romo's round, they're nuts! :P
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Let's bump this back up now that we've got the scores in:
Romo (2.2 index) - 84
Timberlake (6.0) - 98
Lauer (6.2) - 100
Atkinson (8.1) - 114
Th effect the South course has appears to be logarithmic!
Pete -- I believe that in fact is true on real tough courses.
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Let's bump this back up now that we've got the scores in:
Romo (2.2 index) - 84
Timberlake (6.0) - 98
Lauer (6.2) - 100
Atkinson (8.1) - 114
Th effect the South course has appears to be logarithmic!
Pete -- I believe that in fact is true on real tough courses.
I agree, which is why I think the slope system needs to have a steeper grade.
Ken
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Who in the hell is Romo??
There's a difference here I doubt has been mentioned. Since I don't know who Romo is I couldn't comment on whether he's capable of breaking 80 on Torrey with a US Open set up. But I would pretty much guarantee if you put Romo in the ACTUAL US OPEN at Torrey he wouldn't have a chance in hell of breaking 80 or probably any other US Open site. Forget the setup, if anyone thinks playing in an actual US Open wouldn't add shots to a guy like Romo's round, they're nuts! :P
Tom,
I disagree. I dont think there would be added pressure and the course would not play any harder then what he played it as. If anything, I think that playing with better players would elevate his game and provide him with a better chance to break 80. Playing with better players makes you better.
Cheers,
Jordan
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Who in the hell is Romo??
There's a difference here I doubt has been mentioned. Since I don't know who Romo is I couldn't comment on whether he's capable of breaking 80 on Torrey with a US Open set up. But I would pretty much guarantee if you put Romo in the ACTUAL US OPEN at Torrey he wouldn't have a chance in hell of breaking 80 or probably any other US Open site. Forget the setup, if anyone thinks playing in an actual US Open wouldn't add shots to a guy like Romo's round, they're nuts! :P
Tom,
I disagree. I dont think there would be added pressure and the course would not play any harder then what he played it as. If anything, I think that playing with better players would elevate his game and provide him with a better chance to break 80. Playing with better players makes you better.
Cheers,
Jordan
Jordan, just playing in a tournament will often add 3-4 shots to your scorecard. Next make it the US Open, add another 3-4, then put 3000 people around every hole, add another 3-4. Oh and the greens will be twicw as hard and 4 stimps faster, add another 3-4. He shoots high 90's. :o
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Who in the hell is Romo??
There's a difference here I doubt has been mentioned. Since I don't know who Romo is I couldn't comment on whether he's capable of breaking 80 on Torrey with a US Open set up. But I would pretty much guarantee if you put Romo in the ACTUAL US OPEN at Torrey he wouldn't have a chance in hell of breaking 80 or probably any other US Open site. Forget the setup, if anyone thinks playing in an actual US Open wouldn't add shots to a guy like Romo's round, they're nuts! :P
Tom,
I disagree. I dont think there would be added pressure and the course would not play any harder then what he played it as. If anything, I think that playing with better players would elevate his game and provide him with a better chance to break 80. Playing with better players makes you better.
Cheers,
Jordan
JW,
I am not sure that I totally agree with all of that, but you make a REAL solid point. It can't be easy to have to watch those others guys just completely HACK the place to pieces.
Clubhouse,
I guess, serve me my plate of crow. I really thought he would break 80. We all know that anything can happen in a round of golf though. Romo must be struggling with his game, his cap has gone up 3 shots!!! I was wrong, but slightly mislead cap-wise.
Dean,
Just playing in a tournament only often adds strokes to hacks, not players. Romo would not shoot in the high 90's in the US Open, that is absurd.
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I take it back. Romo doubled 18 and didn't make another double. It doesn't sound like the course got him, just didn't play well. Who do I owe dollars to anyway??
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Who in the hell is Romo??
There's a difference here I doubt has been mentioned. Since I don't know who Romo is I couldn't comment on whether he's capable of breaking 80 on Torrey with a US Open set up. But I would pretty much guarantee if you put Romo in the ACTUAL US OPEN at Torrey he wouldn't have a chance in hell of breaking 80 or probably any other US Open site. Forget the setup, if anyone thinks playing in an actual US Open wouldn't add shots to a guy like Romo's round, they're nuts! :P
Tom,
I disagree. I dont think there would be added pressure and the course would not play any harder then what he played it as. If anything, I think that playing with better players would elevate his game and provide him with a better chance to break 80. Playing with better players makes you better.
Cheers,
Jordan
JW,
I am not sure that I totally agree with all of that, but you make a REAL solid point. It can't be easy to have to watch those others guys just completely HACK the place to pieces.
Clubhouse,
I guess, serve me my plate of crow. I really thought he would break 80. We all know that anything can happen in a round of golf though. Romo must be struggling with his game, his cap has gone up 3 shots!!! I was wrong, but slightly mislead cap-wise.
Dean,
Just playing in a tournament only often adds strokes to hacks, not players. Romo would not shoot in the high 90's in the US Open, that is absurd.
Glen, I would never question how much tournament golf you have played so i will go off my own experience. Having played many top amateur events and several years on the mini tours i can definitely speak from my own experiences. In practise rounds and friendly Saturday games I regularly see mini tour players ( myself included) shoot 66 , 67, 68. They then tee it up a day later at the same course and shoot 73,74 ,75 and miss cuts. I have caddied for several Tour players at private clubs on their days off - many of them shoot mid to low 60's with ease and don't do that in tour events. Given, they play tougher courses in tournaments. But are you really trying to say there is no difference in scoring patterns between friendly rounds of golf and when you have a card in your hand playing for a living? A tournament round will definitely add shots to most peoples round if only because it actually 'matters'.
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Who in the hell is Romo??
There's a difference here I doubt has been mentioned. Since I don't know who Romo is I couldn't comment on whether he's capable of breaking 80 on Torrey with a US Open set up. But I would pretty much guarantee if you put Romo in the ACTUAL US OPEN at Torrey he wouldn't have a chance in hell of breaking 80 or probably any other US Open site. Forget the setup, if anyone thinks playing in an actual US Open wouldn't add shots to a guy like Romo's round, they're nuts! :P
Tom,
I disagree. I dont think there would be added pressure and the course would not play any harder then what he played it as. If anything, I think that playing with better players would elevate his game and provide him with a better chance to break 80. Playing with better players makes you better.
Cheers,
Jordan
JW,
I am not sure that I totally agree with all of that, but you make a REAL solid point. It can't be easy to have to watch those others guys just completely HACK the place to pieces.
Clubhouse,
I guess, serve me my plate of crow. I really thought he would break 80. We all know that anything can happen in a round of golf though. Romo must be struggling with his game, his cap has gone up 3 shots!!! I was wrong, but slightly mislead cap-wise.
Dean,
Just playing in a tournament only often adds strokes to hacks, not players. Romo would not shoot in the high 90's in the US Open, that is absurd.
Glen, I would never question how much tournament golf you have played so i will go off my own experience. Having played many top amateur events and several years on the mini tours i can definitely speak from my own experiences. In practise rounds and friendly Saturday games I regularly see mini tour players ( myself included) shoot 66 , 67, 68. They then tee it up a day later at the same course and shoot 73,74 ,75 and miss cuts. I have caddied for several Tour players at private clubs on their days off - many of them shoot mid to low 60's with ease and don't do that in tour events. Given, they play tougher courses in tournaments. But are you really trying to say there is no difference in scoring patterns between friendly rounds of golf and when you have a card in your hand playing for a living? A tournament round will definitely add shots to most peoples round if only because it actually 'matters'.
Here are my thoughts and I am not saying you don't have points, just that you can really only automatically add to the hacks. When I said players, I was thinking top amateurs, not professionals, my fault. Average Professional golf brings a lot of different elements. Those guys have a hard living and a lot on their mind. The class professionals are different and so are the class amateurs. Romo seems to be a class amateur considering his day job. To go a little further, I have to invoke Trevino's story, Palmer playing for his engagement ring at Pine Valley or whatever he used the money for. Isn't the record at Oakmont still 63? Does Love shoot 64 at The Players if it was for fun? Does Tiger make that putt at Pumpkin Ridge with his buddies? How about the guy at Open Qualifying this year? He shoots 76 the first round and qualifies with a second round 66 by a shot. The other low score was 71 shot by just two different guys. It goes both ways, but I just think the blanket statement only applies to the hacks. Interestingly enough, Timberlake was headed well North of 100 and he then said he went into "Tiger" mode, 2 pars and 2 bogeys to finish at 98. Concentration was high, some guys do that when the flag goes up on the first hole. On the lighter side, I play a few games a year with a guy that swings it like a 30, putts like a +6 and I am almost convinced that I would take him straight up against Tiger on the 9th and 18th holes. It is uncanny what he pulls off with the bets in the air. I promise you he doesn't miss a putt on those greens that doesn't at least hit the hole. ;D
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I think Dean is right that scores often go up in tournaments, especially for amateurs. But the round at Torrey was not just a casual round for fun. The eyes of the world were on those players, and they knew it. They knew they would get world-wide press coverage. They knew they would appear on national (global) tv. So I think there was more pressure than normal on them.
Does anyone know for sure how hard the course setup was, compared to how Torrey will play in the Open? Tees, rough, speed of greens, pins, weather?
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I remember coming into the Big Room at St. Andrews after a particularly satisfying practice round on TOC. Sipping a gin and tonic next to on of the oldest Members, I mentioned the score and added some narrative. He looked over and said, "Laddie, don't get too excited, it'll be completely different when ye get the pencil in your hand."
How right he was.
All due kudos to Romo, I doubt he would break 90 in the real thing.
Does anyone know the last professional, i.e., Doctor, Dentist, Professor, Scientist etc., to qualify for the US Open? Exclude Gil Morgan.
Bob
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Tiger Woods double bogeyed the first hole. This put him one shot behind the pace John Atkinson set during his 114.
This could get interesting.
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Tiger Woods double bogeyed the first hole. This put him one shot behind the pace John Atkinson set during his 114.
This could get interesting.
Funny stuff JAL..
He's now 1 under thru 11. ;)
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I am feeling quite generous as I have the Celtics in the series. I think I will let all of you out of your $1 bets. Every single exempt player broke 80 today. That bet is done. I think the boys will get it in gear a little more tomorrow. -6 wins it.
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Lets see, Glenn, by how much did Romo break 80?
We never did get an exact test of Tiger's proposition: that a 10 handicap could not break 100. Why didn't they choose some actual 10 handicaps?
I'm also curious how the course played yesterday. Long, short, windy, calm, easy, hard, etc.
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Jim,
Why are you being like that? I never bet that Romo would break 80. It was my prediction and I owned up to it. Some people from the first page said that some Tour players can't break 80 at U.S. Open golf courses. Well, they all did today. Romo did some very strange things, a 4-putt on 3 and doubling 18. He is obviously capable of breaking 80 on the course, he just didn't that day. For the love of God, people on the first page were saying that Romo MIGHT break 100. I just can't imagine insulting a guy who shot 69 in the 3rd round of The Azalea with the number 100. From the sound of things, give him a few more rounds and he is pushing breaking 75.
I didn't expect to enjoy the course and how it played as much as I did. It gave and it took and was very interesting. I certainly didn't feel like it played long in any way. Some tees were up, but it played more "short" than "long." For instance, Els 3-wood off 4. Tiger 7-iron? into 18. Mickelson didn't have a driver. Also, I heard several 9-irons into those "monster" par 4's.
As for the contest, Tiger never said a 10-handicap couldn't break 100 in front of national television cameras with 3 celebrities. He said that a 10-handicap couldn't break 100 on a US Open golf course. Maybe, they felt the cameras added to it and got a few lower caps.
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Glenn, I was teasing you. So far your prediction on how TP would play has been right.
I never doubted Romo would break 100. 90 seemed likely to me, but not 80. Maybe he is capable of doing that. Did he play well, for him? I also wonder if the course was set up in actual U.S. conditions. I thought they firmed it up this past week, and made the greens quicker. Was the heavy rough a bit thicker too?
Tiger said a 10 handicap could not break 100 at Oakmont, IIRC. I thought he was right at the time, and this little experiment at Torrey backs him up. Though what do 10 handicappers from Oakmont itself shoot there? If they play the tips, and have a ten handicap, doesn't that mean their best 10 of 20 rounds average 91 or so?
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Jim,
Ok, my apologies. Have you ever 4-putted and doubled the last hole and said, yeah, I played pretty good today? I didn't think so, same probably applies to Romo. I would think that Oakmont 10's break 100 regularly, but course knowledge would really come into play in that scenario. I don't think Tiger was accounting for that. I think Friday before the event is good enough for me as far as conditions. Anything more than that is getting a little picky. Hell, I never saw an account of the wind, could have been brutal for all I know. 84 with a 4-putt and a double on the pushover 18 is pretty damn capable of breaking 80.
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I am feeling quite generous as I have the Celtics in the series. I think I will let all of you out of your $1 bets. Every single exempt player broke 80 today. That bet is done. I think the boys will get it in gear a little more tomorrow. -6 wins it.
Isn't Hunter Haas exempt? 80. Day 2 Craig Parry, Jerry Kelly, Michael Campbell, Steve Flesch and Niclas Fasth all exempt, all in the 80's.
Two days of toughening up to go! When these guys played last week the greens were no where near what they are now. You think the USGA would risk that a week before their showpiece event?
Romo shot 84 which is very admirable. Could he break 80 though, very doubtful with the tournament conditions. Could he break 75, very very doubtful.
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Long, short, windy, calm, easy, hard, etc.
Actually, the amateur that played probably was a 10 handicap on Torrey at the slope rating it would have under the existing setup.
Ken
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As Bobby Jones said, "there's golf, and then there's tournament golf."
Speaking from personal experience, it's amazing what can happen to a golf swing when it matters.
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Long, short, windy, calm, easy, hard, etc.
Actually, the amateur that played probably was a 10 handicap on Torrey at the slope rating it would have under the existing setup.
Ken
You're right, thanks. And he shot 114.
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I am feeling quite generous as I have the Celtics in the series. I think I will let all of you out of your $1 bets. Every single exempt player broke 80 today. That bet is done. I think the boys will get it in gear a little more tomorrow. -6 wins it.
Isn't Hunter Haas exempt? 80. Day 2 Craig Parry, Jerry Kelly, Michael Campbell, Steve Flesch and Niclas Fasth all exempt, all in the 80's.
Two days of toughening up to go! When these guys played last week the greens were no where near what they are now. You think the USGA would risk that a week before their showpiece event?
Romo shot 84 which is very admirable. Could he break 80 though, very doubtful with the tournament conditions. Could he break 75, very very doubtful.
Haas, 70 second round. I don't know if he is exempt or not.
Romo. My god, you guys are unbelievable. Fowler shoots 70. Tway 75. Stanley 72. Fathauer 73,73. Thompson 74,73,73.
2008 Azalea- Kevin Tway 72-72-75-73. Romo 73-80-69-81. Cuts Tway by six shots in R3.
Dean,
Would you care to explain how Tway can't break 72 at The Azalea and can shoot 75 IN the US Open. Romo can shoot 69 at The Azalea and according to you, he can't break 80 on the same course.
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I am feeling quite generous as I have the Celtics in the series. I think I will let all of you out of your $1 bets. Every single exempt player broke 80 today. That bet is done. I think the boys will get it in gear a little more tomorrow. -6 wins it.
Isn't Hunter Haas exempt? 80. Day 2 Craig Parry, Jerry Kelly, Michael Campbell, Steve Flesch and Niclas Fasth all exempt, all in the 80's.
Two days of toughening up to go! When these guys played last week the greens were no where near what they are now. You think the USGA would risk that a week before their showpiece event?
Romo shot 84 which is very admirable. Could he break 80 though, very doubtful with the tournament conditions. Could he break 75, very very doubtful.
Haas, 70 second round. I don't know if he is exempt or not.
Romo. My god, you guys are unbelievable. Fowler shoots 70. Tway 75. Stanley 72. Fathauer 73,73. Thompson 74,73,73.
2008 Azalea- Kevin Tway 72-72-75-73. Romo 73-80-69-81. Cuts Tway by six shots in R3.
Dean,
Would you care to explain how Tway can't break 72 at The Azalea and can shoot 75 IN the US Open. Romo can shoot 69 at The Azalea and according to you, he can't break 80 on the same course.
Glenn, what the Azalea has to do with anything regarding the US Open and breaking 80 on a US Open course I have no idea.
I have no idea why young Tway did not have a low score at the Azalea. Perhaps he putted like a dog. I do know he finished the tournament 11 shots ahead of Mr Romo which would appear to make him a much better golfer.
Glenn, we are not discussing Romo here. We are discussing a 2 handicap amateur not dropping any more than 8 shots on a US Open set up. Does that sound realistic to you?
I played the TPC the day after the Players and I played Castle Pines the day after the International. Until I stood on the tees and looked at the width of the fairways, hit in the rough and hit to bone hard greens I had no idea how difficult it was to score on a Tour venue.
There was no way a 2 handicap could break 80 on either of those courses and we are talking about the US Open here.
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I am feeling quite generous as I have the Celtics in the series. I think I will let all of you out of your $1 bets. Every single exempt player broke 80 today. That bet is done. I think the boys will get it in gear a little more tomorrow. -6 wins it.
Isn't Hunter Haas exempt? 80. Day 2 Craig Parry, Jerry Kelly, Michael Campbell, Steve Flesch and Niclas Fasth all exempt, all in the 80's.
Two days of toughening up to go! When these guys played last week the greens were no where near what they are now. You think the USGA would risk that a week before their showpiece event?
Romo shot 84 which is very admirable. Could he break 80 though, very doubtful with the tournament conditions. Could he break 75, very very doubtful.
Haas, 70 second round. I don't know if he is exempt or not.
Romo. My god, you guys are unbelievable. Fowler shoots 70. Tway 75. Stanley 72. Fathauer 73,73. Thompson 74,73,73.
2008 Azalea- Kevin Tway 72-72-75-73. Romo 73-80-69-81. Cuts Tway by six shots in R3.
Dean,
Would you care to explain how Tway can't break 72 at The Azalea and can shoot 75 IN the US Open. Romo can shoot 69 at The Azalea and according to you, he can't break 80 on the same course.
Glenn, what the Azalea has to do with anything regarding the US Open and breaking 80 on a US Open course I have no idea.
I have no idea why young Tway did not have a low score at the Azalea. Perhaps he putted like a dog. I do know he finished the tournament 11 shots ahead of Mr Romo which would appear to make him a much better golfer.
Glenn, we are not discussing Romo here. We are discussing a 2 handicap amateur not dropping any more than 8 shots on a US Open set up. Does that sound realistic to you?
I played the TPC the day after the Players and I played Castle Pines the day after the International. Until I stood on the tees and looked at the width of the fairways, hit in the rough and hit to bone hard greens I had no idea how difficult it was to score on a Tour venue.
There was no way a 2 handicap could break 80 on either of those courses and we are talking about the US Open here.
Nice to see that you are not letting facts get in the way of your argument. What does shooting 69 in The Azalea have to do with playing in the US Open? What do you think Dean? For the love of God, we ARE discussing Romo!!!m Where the hell have you been? When was any of my discussion about anything besides Romo? I am watching it right now and Romo is disgusted with his swing and play. You have no idea what you are talking about and you didn't answer the logic that was put in front of you.
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You think shooting 73,80,69,81 around a 6500 yard, par 71 with a course rating of 71.9 has any relevance to what he could shoot at a US Open venue? And I don't know what I'm talking about? I'm still trying to find the logic. ;)
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I am feeling quite generous as I have the Celtics in the series. I think I will let all of you out of your $1 bets. Every single exempt player broke 80 today. That bet is done. I think the boys will get it in gear a little more tomorrow. -6 wins it.
Isn't Hunter Haas exempt? 80. Day 2 Craig Parry, Jerry Kelly, Michael Campbell, Steve Flesch and Niclas Fasth all exempt, all in the 80's.
Two days of toughening up to go! When these guys played last week the greens were no where near what they are now. You think the USGA would risk that a week before their showpiece event?
Romo shot 84 which is very admirable. Could he break 80 though, very doubtful with the tournament conditions. Could he break 75, very very doubtful.
Haas, 70 second round. I don't know if he is exempt or not.
Romo. My god, you guys are unbelievable. Fowler shoots 70. Tway 75. Stanley 72. Fathauer 73,73. Thompson 74,73,73.
2008 Azalea- Kevin Tway 72-72-75-73. Romo 73-80-69-81. Cuts Tway by six shots in R3.
Dean,
Would you care to explain how Tway can't break 72 at The Azalea and can shoot 75 IN the US Open. Romo can shoot 69 at The Azalea and according to you, he can't break 80 on the same course.
Glenn, what the Azalea has to do with anything regarding the US Open and breaking 80 on a US Open course I have no idea.
I have no idea why young Tway did not have a low score at the Azalea. Perhaps he putted like a dog. I do know he finished the tournament 11 shots ahead of Mr Romo which would appear to make him a much better golfer.
Glenn, we are not discussing Romo here. We are discussing a 2 handicap amateur not dropping any more than 8 shots on a US Open set up. Does that sound realistic to you?
I played the TPC the day after the Players and I played Castle Pines the day after the International. Until I stood on the tees and looked at the width of the fairways, hit in the rough and hit to bone hard greens I had no idea how difficult it was to score on a Tour venue.
There was no way a 2 handicap could break 80 on either of those courses and we are talking about the US Open here.
As a historical note, I played Pebble Beach 3 days after the 2000 Open. The rough had been cut a couple of inches but was still incredibly nasty. Playing from the Blue Tees (one up from the tournament tees) and starting, in a shotgun start with 3 other guys who didn't break 120, shot 83 after being 10 over after the first 6 holes. I doubt my score would have been much higher from the back tees and would have certainly been lower if I was playing in a group of people that could hit the ball straight, if I hadn't started on #9 (I doubled #9 and tripled #10, starting on #1 would have been much easier).
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You think shooting 73,80,69,81 around a 6500 yard, par 71 with a course rating of 71.9 has any relevance to what he could shoot at a US Open venue? And I don't know what I'm talking about? I'm still trying to find the logic. ;)
No, you clearly don't. Difficult is difficult. Go over and check out the scores from the 2008 Azalea. So, you have Romo's scores up, I guess we are talking about him. When a lot of the best amateurs in the country show up at a tournament and shoot 10 scores in the 60's all week and Romo shoots one of them??? Are you really this dumb?? The golf course at The Azalea was really playing hard. Hard is hard!! Are you dumb enough to think that CCoC doesn't toughen up the course for that tournament? Do you think they did the rating the week of The Azalea?
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I am feeling quite generous as I have the Celtics in the series. I think I will let all of you out of your $1 bets. Every single exempt player broke 80 today. That bet is done. I think the boys will get it in gear a little more tomorrow. -6 wins it.
Isn't Hunter Haas exempt? 80. Day 2 Craig Parry, Jerry Kelly, Michael Campbell, Steve Flesch and Niclas Fasth all exempt, all in the 80's.
Two days of toughening up to go! When these guys played last week the greens were no where near what they are now. You think the USGA would risk that a week before their showpiece event?
Romo shot 84 which is very admirable. Could he break 80 though, very doubtful with the tournament conditions. Could he break 75, very very doubtful.
Haas, 70 second round. I don't know if he is exempt or not.
Romo. My god, you guys are unbelievable. Fowler shoots 70. Tway 75. Stanley 72. Fathauer 73,73. Thompson 74,73,73.
2008 Azalea- Kevin Tway 72-72-75-73. Romo 73-80-69-81. Cuts Tway by six shots in R3.
Dean,
Would you care to explain how Tway can't break 72 at The Azalea and can shoot 75 IN the US Open. Romo can shoot 69 at The Azalea and according to you, he can't break 80 on the same course.
Glenn, what the Azalea has to do with anything regarding the US Open and breaking 80 on a US Open course I have no idea.
I have no idea why young Tway did not have a low score at the Azalea. Perhaps he putted like a dog. I do know he finished the tournament 11 shots ahead of Mr Romo which would appear to make him a much better golfer.
Glenn, we are not discussing Romo here. We are discussing a 2 handicap amateur not dropping any more than 8 shots on a US Open set up. Does that sound realistic to you?
I played the TPC the day after the Players and I played Castle Pines the day after the International. Until I stood on the tees and looked at the width of the fairways, hit in the rough and hit to bone hard greens I had no idea how difficult it was to score on a Tour venue.
There was no way a 2 handicap could break 80 on either of those courses and we are talking about the US Open here.
As a historical note, I played Pebble Beach 3 days after the 2000 Open. The rough had been cut a couple of inches but was still incredibly nasty. Playing from the Blue Tees (one up from the tournament tees) and starting, in a shotgun start with 3 other guys who didn't break 120, shot 83 after being 10 over after the first 6 holes. I doubt my score would have been much higher from the back tees and would have certainly been lower if I was playing in a group of people that could hit the ball straight, if I hadn't started on #9 (I doubled #9 and tripled #10, starting on #1 would have been much easier).
Nice Round Mike!! You are now one of the lucky 127 people that can play golf in the world. Congrats, you, God and the exempt 125. Sounds like you could have shot a lot lower. Dean is going to tell you that Pebble isn't that long though. That makes it monumentally easily, don't you know?
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I am feeling quite generous as I have the Celtics in the series. I think I will let all of you out of your $1 bets. Every single exempt player broke 80 today. That bet is done. I think the boys will get it in gear a little more tomorrow. -6 wins it.
Isn't Hunter Haas exempt? 80. Day 2 Craig Parry, Jerry Kelly, Michael Campbell, Steve Flesch and Niclas Fasth all exempt, all in the 80's.
Two days of toughening up to go! When these guys played last week the greens were no where near what they are now. You think the USGA would risk that a week before their showpiece event?
Romo shot 84 which is very admirable. Could he break 80 though, very doubtful with the tournament conditions. Could he break 75, very very doubtful.
Haas, 70 second round. I don't know if he is exempt or not.
Romo. My god, you guys are unbelievable. Fowler shoots 70. Tway 75. Stanley 72. Fathauer 73,73. Thompson 74,73,73.
2008 Azalea- Kevin Tway 72-72-75-73. Romo 73-80-69-81. Cuts Tway by six shots in R3.
Dean,
Would you care to explain how Tway can't break 72 at The Azalea and can shoot 75 IN the US Open. Romo can shoot 69 at The Azalea and according to you, he can't break 80 on the same course.
Glenn, what the Azalea has to do with anything regarding the US Open and breaking 80 on a US Open course I have no idea.
I have no idea why young Tway did not have a low score at the Azalea. Perhaps he putted like a dog. I do know he finished the tournament 11 shots ahead of Mr Romo which would appear to make him a much better golfer.
Glenn, we are not discussing Romo here. We are discussing a 2 handicap amateur not dropping any more than 8 shots on a US Open set up. Does that sound realistic to you?
I played the TPC the day after the Players and I played Castle Pines the day after the International. Until I stood on the tees and looked at the width of the fairways, hit in the rough and hit to bone hard greens I had no idea how difficult it was to score on a Tour venue.
There was no way a 2 handicap could break 80 on either of those courses and we are talking about the US Open here.
As a historical note, I played Pebble Beach 3 days after the 2000 Open. The rough had been cut a couple of inches but was still incredibly nasty. Playing from the Blue Tees (one up from the tournament tees) and starting, in a shotgun start with 3 other guys who didn't break 120, shot 83 after being 10 over after the first 6 holes. I doubt my score would have been much higher from the back tees and would have certainly been lower if I was playing in a group of people that could hit the ball straight, if I hadn't started on #9 (I doubled #9 and tripled #10, starting on #1 would have been much easier).
Nice Round Mike!! You are now one of the lucky 127 people that can play golf in the world. Congrats, you, God and the exempt 125. Sounds like you could have shot a lot lower. Dean is going to tell you that Pebble isn't that long though. That makes it monumentally easily, don't you know?
Glen, there's no reason for sarcasm. I am my own worst critic about my golf game. I was trying to point out that there are lots of reasons other than handicap regarding an amateur playing a US Open Course. That why Kenny Perry isn't playing this week and why Bruce Lietzke always picked courses he could play well in putting together his schedule. I also played Pinehurst #2 about 3 weeks before the 99 Open and it brutalized me, I couldn't have broken 100 in 10 tries there-it's just a matter of how the golf course fits your game. I'm pretty good tee to green but have a bad short game so #2 will almost always overwhlem me.
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Was I using sarcasm? ;D
Let's also look at how much golf Romo was playing before he went to Torrey. He flew in from Cowboys training camp on Thursday and shot 84 on Friday. A normal tournament week like the Tour and this discussion is insane. Give the guy credit and stop acting like professional guys are the only ones that can play the game. Romo is extremely talented, stop insulting the guy!!
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You think shooting 73,80,69,81 around a 6500 yard, par 71 with a course rating of 71.9 has any relevance to what he could shoot at a US Open venue? And I don't know what I'm talking about? I'm still trying to find the logic. ;)
No, you clearly don't. Difficult is difficult. Go over and check out the scores from the 2008 Azalea. So, you have Romo's scores up, I guess we are talking about him. When a lot of the best amateurs in the country show up at a tournament and shoot 10 scores in the 60's all week and Romo shoots one of them??? Are you really this dumb?? The golf course at The Azalea was really playing hard. Hard is hard!! Are you dumb enough to think that CCoC doesn't toughen up the course for that tournament? Do you think they did the rating the week of The Azalea?
Glenn, I'm trying to be very cordial in my stating that I do not think Romo or any 2 handicap amateur can break 80 at a US Open venue. You have now called me stupid and dumb. Why?
Romo is very talented - that I have never denied. He is still a 2 handicap golfer. This is still a US Open venue. He only managed 84 on a course that as we all understand on this site, due to the firmness and speed of the greens was probably 3 or 4 shots easier than it is for the tournament.
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Was I using sarcasm? ;D
Let's also look at how much golf Romo was playing before he went to Torrey. He flew in from Cowboys training camp on Thursday and shot 84 on Friday. A normal tournament week like the Tour and this discussion is insane. Give the guy credit and stop acting like professional guys are the only ones that can play the game. Romo is extremely talented, stop insulting the guy!!
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Mike,
I think you have it all wrong. If you read my comments on the previous posts, you will understand. I was being serious about you shooting a nice round of 83 at Pebble. Sarcastic about the 127 people that can play golf well. If you think that is being an asshole to you, I am so sorry. Your story was very interesting and only added to my point, never meant to say anything derogatory to you.
Nice round. Sounds like you could have shot lower if you had started on the easy first and par 5 second. Not seeing the asshole.
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Mike,
I think you have it all wrong. If you read my comments on the previous posts, you will understand. I was being serious about you shooting a nice round of 83 at Pebble. Sarcastic about the 127 people that can play golf well. If you think that is being an asshole to you, I am so sorry. Your story was very interesting and only added to my point, never meant to say anything derogatory to you.
Nice round. Sounds like you could have shot lower if you had started on the easy first and par 5 second. Not seeing the asshole.
no problem, Glenn, I probably overreacted. Let me know if you ever going to be in Atlanta and maybe we can tee it up...
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You think shooting 73,80,69,81 around a 6500 yard, par 71 with a course rating of 71.9 has any relevance to what he could shoot at a US Open venue? And I don't know what I'm talking about? I'm still trying to find the logic. ;)
No, you clearly don't. Difficult is difficult. Go over and check out the scores from the 2008 Azalea. So, you have Romo's scores up, I guess we are talking about him. When a lot of the best amateurs in the country show up at a tournament and shoot 10 scores in the 60's all week and Romo shoots one of them??? Are you really this dumb?? The golf course at The Azalea was really playing hard. Hard is hard!! Are you dumb enough to think that CCoC doesn't toughen up the course for that tournament? Do you think they did the rating the week of The Azalea?
Glenn, I'm trying to be very cordial in my stating that I do not think Romo or any 2 handicap amateur can break 80 at a US Open venue. You have now called me stupid and dumb. Why?
Romo is very talented - that I have never denied. He is still a 2 handicap golfer. This is still a US Open venue. He only managed 84 on a course that as we all understand on this site, due to the firmness and speed of the greens was probably 3 or 4 shots easier than it is for the tournament.
I never called you dumb or stupid. I asked you if you were dumb enough to think that a guy who just got off a plane from Dallas Cowboy mini-camp and flew into San Diego and shot an 84 5 days before the tournament started couldn't improve by 5 shots on that golf course. A guy who beat a guy by 6 on the same course that shot 75 IN the US Open. Do you think he was playing a lot of golf with the Cowboys? Do you think he gets to practice like he should. Do you really think he 4-putts next time. Do you think he duffs a chip all the time or doubles easy par fives or is it mostly because he was coming from training camp and not properly prepared like he should have been. Does any of this lead to a better performance? According to you, not in the slightest. If you think that, you are BEING dumb. Everyone has a much better chance of playing well, when they show up on Sunday, play nine holes and get to know the golf course more all the way up until Thursday. He flew in, showed up and shot 84 with a 4-putt, double on 18 and a duffed chip on an easy shot. 6 shots right there. Now be reasonable.
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Mike,
I think you have it all wrong. If you read my comments on the previous posts, you will understand. I was being serious about you shooting a nice round of 83 at Pebble. Sarcastic about the 127 people that can play golf well. If you think that is being an asshole to you, I am so sorry. Your story was very interesting and only added to my point, never meant to say anything derogatory to you.
Nice round. Sounds like you could have shot lower if you had started on the easy first and par 5 second. Not seeing the asshole.
no problem, Glenn, I probably overreacted. Let me know if you ever going to be in Atlanta and maybe we can tee it up...
Sounds good. I don't think you overreacted if you thought I meant, what I think you thought I meant.