Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Mike_Cirba on December 27, 2007, 10:11:21 PM
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For some time now, there has been some questioning of whether Hugh Wilson was actually a detailed, heavily involved, "in the dirt" golf course architect or whether he was more of the patrician, high-level, big-idea guy who came back from a trip to the best courses overseas with a head full of concepts and was able through keen oversight and talented staff to get them implemented on the ground.
I think this distinction is important to how he is remembered in terms of his architectural prowess, because even as recently as last year, a lengthy and unfortunately quarrelsome discussion (argument) ensued here that seemingly sought to minimize his overall role in the design of Merion, and that ultimately and sadly resulted in the loss of two valuable contributors here, much to our collective dismay and regret.
In that light, I wish that some of the recently unearthed findings that have been uncovered from our researching the design history of Cobbs Creek had been discovered prior, as I can't help but feel that the whole largely speculative matter would have been dropped much sooner based on a plethora of written, contemporaneous evidence.
Until recently, I would have been very much in the camp that believed that Hugh Wilson originally laid out the East course at Merion, probably had less to do with the West course, probably had little to do with the early East course changes, did a quick "paper job" for Cobbs Creek, and then did nothing much else but agronomic research until pressed into service at Pine Valley after the death of George Crump, when he and his brother Alan finished the last four holes (to the original recollected design that Crump wanted) before dying himself in 1925 at the early age of 45.
However, the historical record from contemporaneous account now seems to indicate a much different type of man and golf course designer, whose style seems more like Pete Dye than say, Jack Nicklaus, no disrespect intended.
From what we have learned, I now feel very certain of the following;
1) He designed Merion East.
2) He designed Merion West. (a 1915 article calls him (paraphrasing), "the genius responsible for the layout of both Merion courses."
3) He designed Seaview for Clarence Geist in 1914. At the time, this was a hugely prominent course. An article at the time of the opening shows that the routing today is exactly as Wilson built it and the hole-by-hole descriptions indicate that Wilson did much more bunkering (that still exists today) than other accounts would suggest. Donald Ross was brought in 2 years later to "toughen" the largely open course, and added bunkering that was then built by Wilfred Reid (the first pro) and Willam Connellan.
4) He designed Cobbs Creek as the head of the GAP appointed committee of Golf experts who included George Crump, Ab Smith, George Klauner, and had input from others like Walter Travis. Hugh Wilson spent SIX months of his life on the design of Cobbs Creek and Ab Smith spent considerable personal time helping with the construction. Both Wilson and Crump were on the 1913 committee who actually picked the current golf course site out of the 4500 acres in Fairmount Park.
5) Wilson and Ab Smith were also credited with doing major design renovation at North Hills Country Club (another well-regarded suburban Philly club) in 1916, a course originally laid out by local Philly gentry/course architect J. Franklyn Meehan. North Hills was actually built on Meehan's property, so I'm sure he had to swallow his pride a bit to bring Wilson and Smith in just a few years after opening.
6) Wilson did so much renovation work to the original course at Philmont around 1915-17 that he is credited along with Green Committee chairman Henry Strouse with the design in a 1917 Phildelphia Inquirer article. At minimum, Wilson added two completely new holes to the design, the 8th and 12th (which unfortunately has lost all of its center line bunkering).
From that article;
"Many of the golf courses here were built in the old days when the architect was practically unknown. In recent years, many of these courses have been remodeled. The Philadelphia Country Club was changed and greatly improved by Walter Travis, one of the many amateurs who have been affected by the new ruling which bars as amateurs men who "construct" (my emphasis for a term of the time indicating and including "design) golf course. A.W. Tillinghast, a Philadelphian, who intends to keep on with his golf course construction work, remodeled both the St. Davids and the Old York Road Country Clubs."
"Both of the Merion Cricket Club courses were built under the direction of Hugh Wilson who also laid out the Seaview course. Philmont is largely the work of Henry Strouse and Hugh Wilson. Aronimink has had many architects including George Klauner..."
7) Anecdotally, from Bill Kittleman (per Tom Doak), Wilson designed the 9 holes at Phoenixville CC around 1915. We're still looking for documentation on that one.
8) WWII Intervened
9) After the war, Wilson gets involved as mentioned earlier in the completion of Pine Valley and becomes the architect of record (along with brother Alan) for completing the final four holes circa 1919. There is little doubt this was a lengthy, onsite, detailed process of high visibility and close scrutiny.
10) Working with Willam Flynn, they layout the Kittansett Club in 1922.
11) In failing health, he works with WIlliam Flynn to come up with a complete re-bunkering scheme for Merion East, which Flynn implements after Wilson's death in 1925.
During all of these years, Wilson was hugely responsible for the evolution of the agronomic side of the game, working with Piper and Oakley and others, which Tom Paul and Wayne can document much better than I can.
However, I've come to understand that Wilson was not a one-trick pony, or even a short-lived shooting star across the golfing landscape. Instead, it seems clear that he put in close to 15 solid years of detailed architectural, agronomic, and civic-minded work before exiting center stage much too early like his friend George Crump.
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Mike:
I don't know that those two departed contributors who miminzed Wilson's work at Merion by trying to establish that rather ridiculous contention about Macdonald/Whigam's value to Merion would've seen the light at this time.
Don't act too surprised at Wilson's contributions to American golf architecture and golf agronomy because basically we've been telling you that all along and Cobb's Creek doesn't really change a thing.
Significant architects writing their remembrances such as George Thomas (Golf Course Architecture in America) basically just weren't lying about his value, influence and significance. When a man of the stature of Thomas says what he did about Wilson---eg in his opinion Wilson was probably one of the best architects extant, professional or amateur, most definitely any of us today should think very serioiusly about putting a lot of stock in that!
If some overarchingly argumentative dude like David Moriarty wants to string out these threads and the history of that time endlessly on here that that wasn't true and Macdonald needs way more credit for Merion then just let him do that to his heart's content. To me that's just as foolish and as historically baseless opinion now as it was then!
There's a ton of writing out there from the old days that a lot of us need to delve back into and analyze if we really want to get a sense of that time and who really was into what and making waves.
I've just spent the last couple of days reading and rereading everything I have and most everthing that's out there on the writing over 40 years of A.W. Tillinghast and it just blows my mind how much he covered and for how long.
Of course some of those on here who might want to make names for themselves as 'expert researchers' might try to make the case that he was lying too here and there for their own convenient arguments about WHATEVER, but generally I'm not buying their revisionist ramblings!
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Mike,
Great information! Thanks to you, Geoffrey Walsh and others for all the excellent work on the Cobb's Creek thread. That is some really interesting stuff.
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MikeC:
By the way, in May 1917 Tillinghast reported in American Golfer that the greens of holes #12-#15 at Pine Valley were being prepared for seeding and that they would be open for play in the Fall of 1917!
Does that really sound to you like Wilson and Flynn designed those golf holes?
SO, what stopped them from coming into play on the schedule that Tillie reported in May 1917?
Just a little event like the USA's entry into WW1 did!
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MikeC:
By the way, in May 1917 Tillinghast reported in American Golfer that the greens of holes #12-#15 at Pine Valley were being prepared for seeding and that they would be open for play in the Fall of 1917!
Does that really sound to you like Wilson and Flynn designed those golf holes?
SO, what stopped them from coming into play on the schedule that Tillie reported in May 1917?
Just a little event like the USA's entry into WW1 did!
Tom,
I'd never suggest that Wilson and Flynn designed the final four holes at Pine Valley..I'm only stating that they were the ones who were called upon by Pine Valley to see Crump's vision through to a successful end. I'm also quite aware of the work that went into recollecting Crump's desires for those holes from an architectural standpoint, and didn't mean to imply that Wilson and/or Flynn "designed" them..
I'm merely emphasizing that the Wilson's got those holes built and I'm sure it took a lot of on-the-ground time and effort to do so, both agronomically and from a detail standpoint.
They also did it with the critical eyes of the golf world at that time watching keenly, which I'm sure was some huge pressure.
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Mike:
I don't think Wilson and Flynn "built" holes #12-#15 at Pine Valley at all. I think they were built by the spring of 1917. What they needed, and a lot of the rest of Pine Valley needed after Crump died was some very serious agronomic attention, and that's what Wilson and Flynn (and Carr as the only other member of the PV Green Committee) gave them. Of course to minimize in any way the contributions of Jim Govan at this time would be historically ridiculous.
The only one who made any real suggestions or changes to the architecture of the course shortly after Crump died was Hugh Alison but all in the context of the 1921 Advisory Committee working off Carr and Smith's "Remembrances".
We have in the archives of this website some opinions from some otherwise pretty impressive architecural students like David Eger saying that the topographical characteristics of holes #12-15 look a lot like Merion and therefore that indicates those holes may've been designed by the likes of Merion's Wilson and Flynn.
The available historic research and timelines today can debunk that notion in New York moment!
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Tom,
That would be consistent with the same news article from January 1917 I quoted above which also states;
"Pine Valley has been made possible through George Crump and it is estimated he has expended nearly $200,000 on it up to date. With the possible exception of the National Golf Links it is admitted to be the best course in the United States. Up to the present time only 14 holes are in use, but the remaining four holes will be ready for play in the fall."
Still and all, I'm quite sure that getting them to full playability and function (Crump had worked on these for a number of years at this point) would have taken a significant amount of hands-on effort and involvement at that time by Hugh and Alan Wilson, especially given the shock and spotlight thrown onto the completion given the sudden death of Crump.
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"Still and all, I'm quite sure that getting them to full playability and function (Crump had worked on these for a number of years at this point) would have taken a significant amount of hands-on effort and involvement at that time by Hugh and Alan Wilson, especially given the shock and spotlight thrown onto the completion given the sudden death of Crump."
Michael:
Come on Pal, we're talking about golf course architecture here. Tillinghast said in May 1917 (he probably saw it and wrote it in April 1917) that the greens were being prepared for seeding and would be ready for PLAY in the fall.
Does that sound to you like those holes had not been designed and built? ;)
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Tom,
Am I understanding you that Wilson(s) were only there to grow grass? That sounds probably true but why then the whole comprehensive effort that was undertaken with Carr, et.al., to understand fully what Crump had wanted for those holes?
Also, was his detailed architectural involvement with Philmont and North Hills and Seaview (as well as Cobbs) documented here prior and I missed it during one of my slowtimes?
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Just as a tie-in to the Pine Valley and Cobb's Creek related threads, the article also mentions;
"A.H. Smith is the man who has made the most important changes to the Huntingdon Valley Country Club, and he was the chief architect along with Hugh Wilson in the public course at Cobb's Creek."
"The most famous family of golfers in town is the Smith family. William P. Smith is probably the best and plays from the Country Club and Pine Valley. He has been a champion of this city and has qualified oftener (sic) in national championships than any other Philadelphian. His brother, A.H., (Ab) is Chairman of the Green Committee at Huntingdon Valley, and he was the first Philadelphian to win a local amateur championship (Philly Am) and fifteen years later duplicated the feat. Both he and his brother are eligible to play in the national amateur championship."
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"Tom,
Am I understanding you that Wilson(s) were only there to grow grass? That sounds probably true but why then the whole comprehensive effort that was undertaken with Carr, et.al., to understand fully what Crump had wanted for those holes?"
Mike:
Yes, I think Wilson and Flynn came in to grow grass which had been a pretty significant failure (for the second time).
Have you ever read Carr and Smith's "remembrances" Mike?
The holes that were really changed architecturally were not holes #12-#15 but others.
Alison suggested changing #15 into a really long par 4 with the green in another place but the club did not accept that suggestion.
On the other hand, a few greens were redesigned and rebuilt out of that 1921 Advisory Committee.
They were #6, to some extent #7, #8, #9, #11 and #17.
Why did the "Remembrances" or even Alison make the suggestions they did?
Because that's what Carr and Smith understood from Crump that he wanted to do.
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Tom,
Unfortunately, I haven't read their "rememberances", but I'd certainly be eager to do so.
I think that in some ways we're probably making my original point that Hugh Wilson was an extremely detailed architect and course "constructor", whether he did any of the design to those four holes at PV or not. Would you agree?
Is there any record of how long Hugh and Alan spent getting those hole completed and finally opened?
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Mike:
I don't really know how detailed Wilson was as a course designer or constructor but you most certainly aren't making ayd original point that he was a very good and signficant and perhaps influential one of that time and either am I or Wayne.
I think others long before us made that point and they made that point pretty well. The fact that people like MacWood and Moriarty couldn't seem to understand that is the odd thing!
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"Is there any record of how long Hugh and Alan spent getting those hole completed and finally opened?"
Yes, from the time Tillinghast reported the greens of those holes were ready to be seeded and the time they finally opened took about two and a half years.
But again, do you understand how that was effected by WW1?
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Tom,
I just didn't realize there were so many written sources of good information on what he accomplished right here in our own backyard. The stuff that Joe Bausch has been coming up with has been an education, at least for me concerning the depth and breadth of WIlson's involvement beyond Merion, and the degree of collaborative creation he undertook with others in the Philadelphia school, including some generally unknown ones like Ab Smith and George Klauner.
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Mike--
Great stuff and Thank you!!!!
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Yes, Mike (and Tom), like Adam says.
You know, I wasn't part of gca.com when the Merion thread was going on, but I read it. I concluded then that history hadn't been unfair re: Macdonald's involvement. After a year here at gca.com, I've now concluded that history was actually being kind re: Macdonald's involvement.
Peter
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I don't think Wilson was a one-trick pony either, but I would be careful making specific statements out of general reporting, even if much of it came from Tillinghast. In all of Wilson's writings, he never discusses who did what, it was always "we did _____." We can be certain he did manage a number of projects and involved himself to varying degrees in those projects based upon his ability to do so dictated by his health and his business.
I think a careful perusing of the Wilson-Piper/Oakley letters during the six month period that Wilson was working on the Cobb's Creek project might offer a better understanding of what he did a that time. I cannot recollect any communication regarding the CC project, but I wasn't looking for that when Tom and I originally went through the files. The copies we made do not have anything regarding CC. At that time, Wilson was working at his insurance business (the Workman's Compensation Act was being implemented in January 1916) and doing agronomic work at Pine Valley and Sunnybrook where the Taylor greens were being put in and grassed. Wilson continued to work with Flynn on Merion (the Amateur was later that year). Piper and Oakley asked Wilson to describe his work at Merion, the results of which appear in Turf for Golf Courses. I don't know how much time he really spent at Cobb's Creek. It sounds like it was quite a lot, but he certainly didn't devote himself exclusively to the project.
As for Wilson designing Merion East, he probably had the most to do with it as the manager of the project. A committee was also involved, though it is clear that Wilson was the one sent to the UK to study the courses there. I would not minimize the efforts of Fred Pickering nor would I ignore that the course was significantly changed over the next 25 years or so, some of it long after Wilson had died.
As for designing Merion West, it was probably a similar process as the East Course except Flynn took the place of Pickering as he was let go for excessive drinking. According to separate conversations with David Gordon and Connie Lagerman (Flynn's daughter), they both considered Flynn the man with the most to do with the design of the West Course. Mrs. Lagerman recalls her father telling her that he designed the West Course. Clearly this does not clear the hurdle of absolute truth, but we can assume that Wilson was in charge and likely had a lot to do with concepts and final approval.
There is no archival material that proves that Wilson designed the Phoenixville CC nine-hole course. Wilson's sister, in a August 7, 1981 letter mentions Seaview and Cobb's Creek as the only courses HIW was involved with outside of Merion.
I don't think Wilson had any more to do with Philmont South other than the redesign of the two holes. Other than the Philadelphia Inquirer attribution in the stating he and Strouse are credited with the South course.
As for North Hills, Flynn and Wilson did some significant redesigns. We have the hole drawings and the handwriting is Flynn's on the redesign drawings.
After WWI (American invovement spanned from Woodrow Wilson's April 1917 Declaration of War to the November 1918 end of the war) Pine Valley was completed. Flynn was there several days a week for an extended period of time handling agronomic work and likely worked with the Wilsons to finish the golf course. I concede Tom Paul has studied the evolution of PV like no other, yet to conclude that all they did was agronomic work could be wrong. Crump was changing plans and his intentions were not finalized on many holes. Who's to say that the designs cleared for grassing in 1917 were the same as found on the completed course?
Regarding Kittansett, Wilson (who often vacationed in NE) toured the property with Flynn for two days. These are Wilson's words in March 1922,
"I have just gotten back from Marion, where I spent two days with Mr. Hood and Flynn. It certainly is a pretty piece of ground and it ought to make a bully golf course."
The remainder of the short letter discusses the acidity of the soil and the ability of Bent and fescue to take and hold. To give credit to laying out the course with Flynn from this scant reference is a mistake.
As for the changes to Merion East, including the re-bunkering of the course, this was taking place pretty much since the course opened. Greens were revised, moved and bunkers redone before the new holes 10-13 were constructed. Much of the work preceding the 1924 Amateur, some of the most significant of all, was conducted while Wilson was often bedridden with illness. Piper and Oakley rarely consulted with him during this time. He had an assistant correspond for him. I'm sure, given the foster father-son relationship he had with Flynn that he knew what was going on and advised on redesign matters. To what extent, we'll never know. I think it fair to give some credit to Wilson, but much of it can be attributed to Flynn as can all of the significant changes made to the course after Wilson's January 1925 death.
In response to an inquiry from JD Rockefeller's engineer, Mr. Todd to the Merion Cricket Club, Mr. Philip Staples, chairman of the Greens Committee, replied on May 17, 1934 as to the qualifications of William Flynn. Mr. Staples indicated that he,
“...is very well and favorably known in this section. It has done very effective work at Merion and is, I think it fair to say, progressive in its methods and moderate in its charges.” Mr. Staples goes on to say that “Those previous chairmen had, I know, much to say about the general outline of the courses when they were constructed, and it may be debatable as to whether they or Toomey & Flynn had the principal say in the determination of such design.” However, Toomey & Flynn have been consulted at all stages, have had in charge the construction work proper, and are in my opinion, entirely capable of taking on major projects.”
I think you are correct when you remark on the tremendous work Wilson did in terms of agronomic practices for golf turf and the origination of the Green Section. Between his family, his business and his health, his work in golf agronomics could well have overshadowed his architectural contributions even though they can be considered very significant. While some past contributors to this site sought to minimize Wilson's abilities and contributions, I would be careful that the pendulum doesn't swing to far to the opposite side. The truth nearly always lies somewhere in the middle. I think that's where you'll find Wilson's architectural accomplishments.
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"Tom,
I just didn't realize there were so many written sources of good information on what he accomplished right here in our own backyard. The stuff that Joe Bausch has been coming up with has been an education, at least for me concerning the depth and breadth of WIlson's involvement beyond Merion, and the degree of collaborative creation he undertook with others in the Philadelphia school, including some generally unknown ones like Ab Smith and George Klauner."
Mike:
I didn't exactly realize there were so many good articles on Cobb's Creek either and who all was involved but it certainly is logical if one things about it.
For years we've seen much of this information referred to in club histories and in club archives but it's generally been referred to indirectly. In other words, we haven't seen reprints of these articles in clubs (actually a few we have) just that the info was referred to in club histories and such.
But if one thinks about it that info in those club histories and such had to come from somewhere (unless as a Moriarty was sort of implying everyone around here was just making it up) and the info reported in these old Philly Inquirer articles and such is where it did come from.
The thing that ticked me off (and still does frankly) is when people like Moriarty (or MacWood) try to make it look like some of this info was just made up by Philadelphians from those clubs or whatever to make themselves look good and perhaps look more important in an architectural sense than they were.
They were implying that somehow the work or talent of Wilson at Merion or in this town in golf and architecture was somehow overblown or that he needed someone like Macdonald and Whigam or Raynor to tell him what to do and how to do it. I don't believe it was like that at all and these old articles seem to be proving that.
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The folks at Phoenixville GC certainly seem to think Wilson designed their course:
http://www.phoenixvillecc.com/golf-index.html
I played GAP at Phoenixville a couple of years ago, and the guys we played with mentioned the Wilson pedigree several times.
I'm not submitting this as evidence for anything but the fact that the members there belive fully they're playing on a Wilson track.
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Dan:
I've been around here for about thirty years now and Phoenixville certainly thought Wilson was involved in the design of their course when I first got here. Fred Christman was the old competition director of the GAP, he was from Phoenixville CC and he used to mention it all the time.
I have a certain sense that if and when the detailed history of Hugh Wilson and his involvement in golf course architecture is finally told we just might come to find that he was one of those guys who could be referred to as a very quick study and certainly of a economic efficiency mindset.
I can certainly tell you from reading through all his so-called "agronomy letters" the man was both efficient and relentless. The things he wanted done he sort of wanted done yesterday, if you know what I mean. He was most definitely not a procrastinator!
The odd thing about Wilson is he was obviously one of those guys who was just never a "well man" if you know what I mean and that seemed to be the only thing that ever slowed him down. It seems like his brother Alan was most aware and frankly always pretty solicitous of that fact and problem.
I've said it before on here but the personality of Wilson that seems evident in his letters as well as some photos of him really do remind me of a young John Kennedy---another guy who was never a "well man".
People like that with that inherent condition can tend to be in a real hurry for probably fairly obvious reasons.
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Wayne,
Thanks for the additional information, which helps to flesh out a fuller picture. All of these historical details that have been unearthed over the years here on various architects are really informative and educational, and it's wonderful how some of the pictures of their lives and works start to come together.
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"I cannot recollect any communication regarding the CC project, but I wasn't looking for that when Tom and I originally went through the files."
Wayne:
Don't forget when we were going through all those "agronomy letter" files at the USGA we were sort of just on the lookout for the mention of Merion, Flynn et al and there are a ton of those letters up there that we didn't copy for that reason.
I'll go through them again up there but my recollection is there was remarkably little written in them about who did what architecturally in anything.
My sense is that Wilson, as much letter writing as he did must have written about architecture to others (obviously Piper and Oakley were agronomists not architects) but that those correspondences are just gone and maybe long ago.
Another reason Wilson may not have chronicled much about what he did in architecture is he always was an amateur, never taking anything for what he did and he surely didn't have anything to gain by promoting himself as an architect in any way.
Matter of fact, he may've been fairly quiet about it hoping that others wouldn't ask him to do projects for them too as architecture definitely was not his day job.
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On the Cobb's Creek thread, I made note of Wilson's detailed involvement with Philadelphia public golf up until at least 1922, which is somewhat incredible to me.
However, perhaps more importantly, and to possibly (and finally) end the previous debate here about when Wilson actually went overseas to study course architecture, I refer you to the following Philadelphia Inquirer article (by "Joe Bunker") from April 23, 1916, which was part of a full-page story on Merion;
"Nearly every hole on the course has been stiffened so that in another month or two it will resemble a really excellent championship course. Hugh Wilson is the course architect and Winthrop Sargent is the chairman of the Green Committee. These two men have given a lot of time and attention to the changes and improvements. Before anything was done to the course originally, Mr. Wilson visited every golf course of any note not only in Great Britain, but in this country as well, with the result being that Merion's East course is the last word in course architecture. It has been improved each year until it is now nearly perfect from a golf point."
"The club has been very fortunate in having as its greenkeeper William S. Flynn. He is a New Englander and before coming to Merion was a professional in Vermont."
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Mike:
I don't know that the article mentioned there will shed much light on when and how often Hugh Wilson went abroad.
But when there was all that debating going on with Merion and when Wilson went to Europe I did notice that there appeared to be something of an assumption or even a premise that because it was determined he was across the Atlantic in the spring of 1912 that he could not have been over there before that time.
Making an assumption like that isn't all that smart, in my opinion. I can tell you that men like Wilson and his kind were generally in the habit of traveling to Europe and the other side a lot more than some of us may realize or appreciate.
Not to mention the fact that Wayne determined part of the Wilson Bros. insurance company was into insuring shipping! And also not to mention that one of the primary movers from Merion in the club and the move to Ardmore ran a shipping company.
This is a little like a guy like Rich Goodale implying (not that he exactly did this, mind you) that since I've never seen TOC I must not know anything about the other side either.
The fact is I don't know about TOC because I never have been there but because someone like my own mother was a total globe-trotter and inveterate anglophile and in my wild young days I lived with a Dutch lady in D.C. for about 7-8 years and went to the other side three or four times a year I guess in my life I've been over there about forty or more times.
Wilson didn't live very long but to assume that 1912 was the only time he ever went over there seems like a useless assumption to me.
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Tom,
I thought the line that stated Wilson went abroad to study the great courses "before anything was done to the course originally" is pretty indicative that it happened prior to 1912.
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For Jeff Brauer,
Jeff....Please consider that this was from a few months ago, so some of this might need to be revised based on our recent discussions, but I think it's a pretty good primer and might be a good thread to add or revise as we learn more.
Thanks...I think he's a pretty important figure.
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I also would add that in the early 20s he was again on a committee seeking new sites for golf courses for the city of PHiladelphia (they selected both Juniata and FDR Park), and it was mentioned in 1924 that he and Ab Smith and Frank Meehan would likely be designing them again. He was also working with William Flynn on Marble Hall (today's Green Valley CC) when he sadly died early in 1925.
His birth name was Hugh Irvin Wilson, in November of 1879.
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Mike,
Thanks. I had forgotten this one, including the fact that Wilson was in insurance according to one post. It would still be interesting to get more of the back story on him, again, just for historical purposes. It looks like some of the Philly guys have done a lot of work on it, but it seems to have gotten lost in the other threads in favor of debating just what he did at MCC.
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I know this has been mentioned already but I think it's worth repeating, i.e. Hugh Wilson was not designing golf courses in order to make a living. And he lived in a time before the mania for official degrees and accreditations took hold, and before economic demands and the marketplace turned everything worth doing into a profession. (I think a few years before Merion, Albert Einstein was still working as a junior clerk in a patent office when he first introduced the theory of special relativity.) That seems to me to be an important fact; and if we miss what that means and might have meant to the creation of Merion East (and I'm not sure what it means or might've meant) I think we're probably missing a lot.
Peter
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HIW also appeared to be a fairly avid squash player. There are many instances of an "H I Wilson" appearing in the winter months of the Philadelphia Inquirer's listings of squash tournaments results (1910 and before).
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Hugh Wilson was something of a golfing prodigy in other ways, as well.
The Golf Association of Philadelphia was formed in 1896 with four member clubs, which included Belmont which later became Aronimink. The others included Philly Country Club, Philly Cricket Club, Merion Cricket Club.
Dr. Henry Toulmin of the same Belmont club was elected Vice-President of GAP. Remember him? He later served on Hugh Wilson's construction committee.
In the first Golf Association of Philadelphia club tournament ever held, which was the Belmont Club Championship in 1897....was won by 18 year old Hugh Wilson!
Later that year, he also competed in the first Philadelphia Amateur Championship, in October 1897.
After the medal rounds, he was in second place of the 8 men who qualified for the championship.
However, in the first round of match-play, he lost to the eventual winnder, Ab Smith! Funny how all this stuff ties together. ;D
He played competitively at Princeton, and played in the Intercollegiate Championship in 1901, where he unfortunately lost in the second round.
I can find him records of him playing golf competitively almost every year...except 1910.
To suggest that he knew next to nothing about golf and golf courses when he was appointed chairman of the committee at Merion in 1911 is not accurate, no matter how modest, self-effacing, unassuming, and humble a man he might have been in his public statements.
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Im wondering what kind of wording from, say, board minutes would it take for you sentence-structuring, word-parsing, logic fixated discussants to be convinced that Wilson and his committee routed and designed Merion East? Or are words useless to you all? Would you need to see a video and audio recording? ;)
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Based upon Joe's observation as to Wilson playing in numerous squash tournaments from 1910 on back, would it be possible to construct a tentative timeline of when he was in the Philly area during those years?
it might prove whether the possibility for earlier trips to the UK were feasible and provide tiemframes in which to look...
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Based upon Joe's observation as to Wilson playing in numerous squash tournaments from 1910 on back, would it be possible to construct a tentative timeline of when he was in the Philly area during those years?
it might prove whether the possibility for earlier trips to the UK were feasible and provide tiemframes in which to look...
Phil,
It doesn't prove anything but Wilson played tournaments all through the first decade of last century, and was on the Merion team in the suburban cup matches in 1909, but all of a sudden, in 1910 there is virtually nothing. Tillingast (as Hazard) in November reported that Hugh Wilson was one of several men he named as sadly absent for tournament competiton, but we also do know that Wilson played in a tournament in October of that year.
I'm truly not sure if the 7 month trip in 1910 was legend or reality, but we have yet to find anything from that year that would prove he was in Philly prior to October.
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I'm thinking this thread might be a good place to build a primer about Hugh Wilson, and given that most folks know very little about him, hopefully we can dig a bit deeper.
This from a recent Joe Bausch finding where he beats Tillinghast in 1903.
I'm finding myself surprised when I see that most of these relationships go back a decade or more.
It's a bit hard to read, so I'll repeat the first paragraph;
"Hugh I. Wilson has again asserted himself in the local golfing world. His early promise as one of Philadelphia's best golfers bore fruit through his college career at Princeton, but in winning the St. David's Plate, the annual election day trophy of the St. David's Golf Club yesterday, he demonstrated his ability to hold his own in a medal play contest against the best of Philadelphia's players."
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/wilson_11_04_1903_tourney_Inky.jpg)
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I had mentioned that Wilson was very active in sports in college in a previous thread. Here is what I base that upon (from the December 19, 1900 issue of the Philadelphia Inquirer).
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/2524562960_a8361b51ac_o.jpg)
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I did not know that Hugh Wilson was a member at Philly CC before Merion (or perhaps he belonged to both). These scores are from the May 8, 1898 edition of the Philadelphia Inquirer:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2204/2523775301_4acf0e52e7_o.jpg)
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Here is one from the June 1, 1898 edition of the Philadelphia Inquirer:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2329/2523816619_6557ed3fa7_o.jpg)
Some of the names there are interesting. The maid of honor is Mary Warren, with Hugh Wilson an usher. Hugh and Mary got married about seven years later! Perhaps this 1898 wedding is where they met?!
No need for a follow-up post Barney. We all know what your reply would be. ;D
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And from the May 18, 1901 Philadelphia Inquirer is this little snippet, buried at the very bottom of the sports page:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2386/2524707702_33dd797c9f_o.jpg)
I'm assuming this means he was captain during his senior year.
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Does anyone know the home clubs of the Ivy League schools at that time?
For instance, did Harvard play at Myopia? I know Princeton had a Willie Dunn course that was later modified and added to by Flynn. It might be interesting to see which course he played in college.
**EDIT** - YES, Harvard played at Myopia Hunt Club. Just found it. Will search for some of the others like Yale, Columbia, et.al.
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Along with Myopia Hunt Club, some other courses Hugh Wilson and the Princeton team played while at University included Garden City, Atlantic City, and Ardsley.
That's 2 of the top 3 courses in existence in the US at the time. So, we now know he was playing courses of this repute a full decade or more before he was asked to head the Merion committee.
**EDIT** It also appears they played matches at Chicago, Midlothian, and Exmoor.
This scholastic golf edcuation would have been virtually the creme de la creme of US golf at the time.
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"For instance, did Harvard play at Myopia?"
Mike:
Probably. Bob Crosby might know. I think Leeds was a pretty big Harvard guy. Myopia is one of my contact clubs and I have their history book around here. Their historian who's an old friend of mine from way back would probably know something like that. Herbert Leeds kept a pretty specific diary book of what all he did on the course over the decades but when the history was written on Myopia decades later that diary book of Leeds has never been seen again.
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"For instance, did Harvard play at Myopia?"
Mike:
Probably. Bob Crosby might know. I think Leeds was a pretty big Harvard guy. Myopia is one of my contact clubs and I have their history book around here. Their historian who's an old friend of mine from way back would probably know something like that. Herbert Leeds kept a pretty specific diary book of what all he did on the course over the decades but when the history was written on Myopia decades later that diary book of Leeds has never been seen again.
Tom,
I should probably research first and type later, but I don't know if you saw my updates.
Princeton played at Myopia, Garden City, Chicago, Atlantic City, Princeton, Exmoor, Midlothian, Misquamicut, and Ardsley during the Hugh Wilson years and I'm still digging.
However, given that we've now covered 3 of the top 3 courses at the time, I'm not sure what more there is to find. ;)
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I've just changed the heading to this thread to reflect some new findings.
In Hugh Wilson's 1916 letter, he claims to have only complete novice knowledge of golf course construction and design "of the average club member" at the time he was put in Chair of the Merion Committee in 1911.
On the various Merion threads, I felt that he simply said this due to his humble, unassuming nature, and it turns out that was correct.
I've just spent some time going through Wilson's competitive record at Princeton, where he was between 1898 and 1902. During his career he played at;
Myopia Hunt
Garden City
Chicago
Lakewood
Baltusrol
St. Andrews
Essex County
Philadelphia Cricket
Philadelphia Country Club
Richmond County
Morris County
Midlothian
Exmoor
Atlantic City
Ardsley
Misquamicut
That playing experience alone would have put his knowledge far, far, FAR beyond the average club member, even if he didn't play another single course for the next decade until 1911, which we know he did.
However, where he was really fibbing us was in this latest bit;
As mentioned, Wilson went to Princeton in 1898 and played golf through all four years.
In 1898, it was reported that the University was looking at land to build a new course, one which they hoped would be 18 holes. Later that year land was aquired, and work began on the course.
I've seen accounts of this first course that suggest it was designed by Willie Dunn, and I came across an account today that suggested that it was done by one James Swan.
In either case, work was slow, and funding was scarce but nine holes of the course opened by 1901.
On March 16th, 1901, the Trenton Times reported that,
"The governors are making every effort to have the course open by June 1st. A professional has been engaged to take charge of the new course and will arrive here in a few days. The work will be pushed as rapidly as the funds will permit."
"H.I. Wilson, (class of) 1902, was elected a member of the greens committee."
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Mike,
That both establishes a long held interest in architecture and the reason he was put on the committee. It does sound a little like how JN got interested in gca, though, doesn't it?
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Mike -
It's remarkable how many architects crossed paths at the Ivies just after the turn of the century. Wilson would have crossed paths with Chandler Egan who graduated from Harvard in '04. Egan won the '02 collegiate title. I would assume Wilson played in that tournament too. Myopia was the Harvard home course, though they played other courses in the area. Sometime in the '40's, the team started playing more at The Country Club. I suspect because it was so much closer to campus.
It's interesting to consider the golf architects who would have known each other from their college golf. Wilson and Egan have been noted. But there was also Langford, Behr, and Hunter who came along a little later. (Should Brademus be included?)
But the larger point is that all good amateur players with a little family money traveled widely to play in tournaments, pre and post college. Just like today.
Bob
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Bob,
I could be wrong, but in the Bredemus history I read by Francis Trimble, there is a missing period of time where he was thought to perhaps have worked construction or at least peeked in on a few CBM courses.
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Bob,
It is absolutely amazing. I have the matches where he and Chandler Egan both competed, both in the midwest and at Garden City.
There are another bunch of prominent names there, as well.
One thing that I don't think most people know is that the Ivy League school teams didn't just compete against each other, but against other formal golf clubs.
CB Macdonald is mentioned as taking part in some of the matches, as well as his future son-in-law, that toady, HJ Whigham. ;) (sorry...cant' help myself) ;D
Jeff,
He was a bit of a wunderkind.
The Princeton Golf Club wasn't just for the school golf team, but for all those associated with the University, as well as alumni. They were a member of the USGA very early.
To have selected a 20 year old kid to the Green Committee had to have been absolutely remarkable!! :o
Consider that their competition was playing at places like Myopia and it's pretty certain it was not a light undertaking.
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Mike -
Wilson had seen and played the best courses in the US for about 10 years. Which is why I never thought the fuss over exactly when Wilson traveled to the UK to be very relevant.
Bob
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Mike -
It's hard to know what to make of Wilson's election as the green chair at the Princeton course. It might have been something senior golf captains were expected to do. Who knows. In any event it was not an office he occupied for very long, since I assume he graduated in June of that year and moved back to Philadelphia.
Bob
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Mike -
It's hard to know what to make of Wilson's election as the green chair at the Princeton course. It might have been something senior golf captains were expected to do. Who knows. In any event it was not an office he occupied for very long, since I assume he graduated in June of that year and moved back to Philadelphia.
Bob
Bob,
If Princeton was just playing on an established course through those years, I would think much the same. However, this situation was a bit different, as almost from the time Wilson arrived it was clear that the University was looking for a brand new course.
I'd mention two things;
1) Site selection and building of the course happened through his years at Princeton, with the course opening I believe in 1901, a few months after he was elected to the Green Committee in March of his Junior year.
2) He graduduated in 1902.
If nothing else, I'm sure he was exposed to course building at that time, no matter how poor the course might have been, as I'm sure we'll likley soon hear argued. :D
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And from the May 18, 1901 Philadelphia Inquirer is this little snippet, buried at the very bottom of the sports page:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2386/2524707702_33dd797c9f_o.jpg)
I'm assuming this means he was captain during his senior year.
Bob Crosby,
I just noticed this earlier post from Joe Bausch above.
It seems by the dates of the articles, Hugh Wilson was elected to the Green Committee of Princeton Golf Club prior to being named Captain of the Princeton golf team.
Seem as though he was quite the precocious, curious kid.
Incidentally,
I find conflicting information as to the designer of the "new" course at Princeton.
Dr. William Quirin's "Golf Clubs of the MGA" states that Springdale Golf Club (as it's known today) was designed by Willie Dunn. Nine holes opened just after the turn of last century and a second nine in the teens (according to Dunn's plans), before William Flynn significantly revised the entire course in the 20s.
The news article I read today suggested that the design was by James Swan, who was the Greenkeeper at St. Andrews at the time. Knowing what we know about course creation at the time, it was likely a Dunn paper job executed by Swan.
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Bob C -
you've mentioned before how much of the architectural record is still to be re-discovered, buried as it is in old forgotten journals in musty far away libraries. But your post on this thread got me thinking about how much of that historical record was never actually recorded at all, but instead happened casually and without notice during late night talks amongst friends over port and cigars in college dorms, or with cool gin and tonics in hand on summer patios amongst fellow competitors after tournaments at Garden City or Midlothian. How little we can really know about the many ideas and ideals and philosophies on golf course architecture that were born or developed in those times and places, and never recorded anywhere except second hand, on the ground or in reflection. In this, golf course architecture reminds me yet again of jazz, and of the countless moments of improvisational genius by the greats and near greats that floated off into the ether the moment they were born, heard just that once in that one time and place and never heard again, except second hand in legend and stories and old memories like those about the time Lester Young outplayed Coleman Hawkins in a late night, hours long cutting-contest in Kansas City. (What might've Lester played on his 6th or 12th chorus of Lady Be Good or Body and Soul that had Billie Holiday calling him The Pres from then on? I'll never know.) All of which is to say, I'm sure there's much that Hugh Wilson knew and experienced and said and heard that was here one moment and gone the next, unrecorded even in his own letters and by his own hand.
Peter
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Peter,
The more I'm reading about Hugh Wilson, whether it's his golfing, cricket, hockey, baseball, or social accomplishments...
...the more certain I am that he'd be the last person in the world to tell you about them.
In fact, should you ask, I'm pretty sure his first reaction would be to blush and then divert the discussion elsewhere.
Joe,
Hugh Wilson was a member of Aronimink (Belmont) in 1897, where he won the club championship. If he was a member at Philly CC in 1898, he might have held memberships at both clubs.
His brother Alan was a member at Merion in the late 1890s. It appears that when he returned from Princeton in 1902, he joined Merion as well.
I see the post you put here where he may have met his wife. Today, I came across an article of their engagement in 1903, which was about 1 year after graduating college, but would seem to be a five-year courtship.
I guess that was pretty common in those days.
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I've done a more comprehensive search for Hugh Wilson in the database of early Philadelphia Inquirer issues I have access to. I essentially searched for "H I Wilson" or "Hugh Wilson" or "Hugh I Wilson" from 1890 to 1922. Sorting through the many hits I think this is a reasonably complete list of stories where he is mentioned, but I'm sure I missed a few or more. In chronological order:
1. March 1, 1896: youngster at a dinner party (in the 'This Week in Society' article)
2. July 26, 1896: family makes trip to the Adirondacks
3. May 9, 1897: GAP match for Belmont team
4. Dec 4, 1897: GAP tourney
5. Dec 5, 1897: match at Philly CC
6. Mar 6, 1898: story calls him 'king' golfer at Belmont and that he doesn't play when the weather gets cold.
7. May 8, 1898: interclub match playing for Philly CC
8. June 1, 1898: usher at a wedding.
9. Dec 31, 1899: at a 'subscription dance' (?); Mary Warren in attendance too.
10. July 29, 1900: at an 'enchre party' (?) in Spring Lake, NJ
11. Dec 19, 1900: appointed manager of P'ton FR baseball team
12. May 18, 1901: named captain of golf team
13. June 26, 1901: leaves to visit Silver City, NM (I think this is where little mentioned brother Wayne lives).
14. May 11, 1902: NCAA match at Garden City
15. June 14, 1903: better ball tourney
16. oops, I skipped a number!
17. Sept 27, 1903: GAP qualifier
18. Nov 4, 1903: wins Election Day Trophy tourney at St Davids
19. May 8, 1904: interclub match
20. May 26, 1904: Stevenson Cup qualifier (playing for Merion)
21. May 28, 1905: GAP match at HVCC (for Merion)
22. June 4, 1905: GAP match vs Mt. Airy
23. May 24 and July 1, 1906: tourneys at Merion
24. Jan 17, 1907: squash tourney
25. Jan 24, 1907: squash tourney
26. April 21, 1907: named to play in 4/27/07 Chevy Chase match
27. June 29, 1907: a "Hugh Wilson" is listed on a boat to Glasgow.
28. February 12, 1908: squash tourney
29. May 3, 1908: intercity match vs Washington
30. Jan 17, 1909: squash tourney.
31. Feb 16, 1909: squash tourney (defaulted match)
32. March 18, 1909: Princeton Club dinner.
33. Dec 1, 1911: at the Radnor Horse Show (Robert Leslie there too)
34. Sept 12, 1912: tourney invite for 9/27 and 9/28
35. Apr 10, 1913: Cobb's stuff.
36. Apr 25, 1913: Cobb's stuff.
37. June 23, 1913: Philly Cup competition
38. June 24, 1913: upcoming GAP tourney
39. July 5, 1913: GAP match
40. July 6, 1913: GAP match
41. Sept 20, 1913: Lesley Cup qualifier invite.
42. Dec 31, 1913: caddy dinner story at Merion.
43. Nov 4, 1914: Joe Bunker article.
44. Jan 24, 1915: Joe Bunker Cobb's story.
45. March 17, 1915: Joe Bunker article.
46. Apr 9, 1915: 4-ball match w/ Ouimet at Seaview
47. Jan 9, 1916: Joe Bunker Cobb's article.
48. Apr 23, 1916: Joe Bunker article that includes recent changes to Merion for upcoming National Amateur tourney.
49. Jan 14, 1917: Billy Bunker article
50. Mar 11, 1917: his work on two holes at Philmont
51. April 15, 1917: mentioned in part of PV story
52. Apr 22, 1917: Billy Bunker article.
53. Apr 21, 1919: mentioned "In a Social Way" article
54. Dec 21, 1919: part of "Clubs and Clubmen" article where he is mentioned finishing PV
55. Jan 8, 1920: elected to exec comm of USGA
56. Jan 10, 1920: same as above
57. Jan 18, 1920: same as above
58. Feb 8, 1920: trip to Atlantic City
59. Nov 13, 1920: mentioned "In a Social Way" article
60. Nov 4, 1920: again USGA comm mention
61. Dec 1, 1920: sold house in Bryn Mawr
62. Dec 5, 1920: dance invitation at Merion CC
63. Aug 2, 1921: trip to NY
64: Oct 31, 1921: guest at H'ween dance.
65. Mar 3, 1922: searching for more golf course sites for the city
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Joe,
Nothing in 1910, huh? So we're still left with the fact that we know he played in a tournament in October of that year, and in November, Tillinhgast mentioned in American Golfer that Wilson was one of a number of prominent golfers whose recent absence from competitive golf he bemoaned.
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Peter -
Your jazz analogy is a good one. The main difference being that most Charlie Parker solos left no trace. OTOH, for most of MacKenzie's designs, to pick a name, we have at least something concrete to research, whether it is the actual course or drawings, newspaper accounts, notes, etc. Jazz is pure performance art. Very little was transcribed. GCA is some combination of performance art and tangible art. We can research the tangible part.
In theory, researching gca ought to be much more fruitful. I don't know how you would recapture what Monk did in a performance that wasn't recorded.
The thing about gca is that we haven't been looking in enough places. Joe Bausch has proven that.
Bob
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Joe Bausch, fantastic research. Two questions. Do any of those articles from 1911 on name Wilson as Merion's builder or designer?
Also, do you know if there were any other Hugh Wilsons in or around Philadelphia then? I'm wondering if that trip in 1907 could be someone else, or if you are pretty sure it was our Hugh. May mean nothing, but the time between the 1907 article and the next article that mentions Hugh is a little over 7 months.
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Jim,
I copied this from a recent thread. I hope it answers your question. Beyond "Far and Sure"'s comments after playing Merion when it first opened, these are the first articles I've seen that mention Wilson's involvement with Merion.
Philly Inquirer – 9/15/12 – “Clubs & Clubmen” column
“Mr. Hugh Wilson went abroad to get ideas for the new course and helped largely in the planning of the holes.”
Philadelphia Public Ledger – 10/12/13 – William Evans
“Hugh I. Wilson, chairman of the Green Committee at the Merion Cricket Club and who is responsible for the wonderful links on the Main Line, has been Mr. Geist’s right hand man and has laid out the Sea View course. Mr. Wilson some years ago before the new course at Merion was constructed visited the most prominent courses here and in Great Britain and has no superior as a golf architect. Those who have visited the new course have commented warmly on its construction.”
Philadelphia Public Ledger – 11/1/14 - William Evans
“Then comes Hugh I. Wilson of Merion, whose word ought to count for a great deal, for he laid out both the Merion courses and the Seaview links. He has this to say.. "
Philly Inquirer 12/06/14 – Joe Bunker
“Hugh I. Wilson, for a number of year’s chairman of the Green Committee at Merion Cricket Club has resigned. He personally constructed the two courses at Merion, and before the first was built he visited every big course in Great Britain and this country. “
Philly Inquirer 1/24/15 – Joe Bunker
“Such experts as Hugh Wilson, who laid out the Merion and Seaview courses…have laid out the golf course in Cobb’s Creek Park.”
Philadelphia Public Ledger – 1/31/15 – William Evans
“A Committee made up of Hugh Wilson, the man responsible for the two Merion and new Seaview courses…will aid the park engineers in laying out the course (at Cobb’s Creek)”.
Philly Inquirer 4/23/16 – Joe Bunker
“Nearly every hole on the course (Merion East) has been stiffened (for the US Am) so that in another month or two it will resemble a really excellent championship course. Hugh Wilson is the course architect and Winthrop Sargent is chairman of the Green Committee. These two men have given a lot of time and attention to the changes and improvements. Before anything was done to the course originally, Mr. Wilson visited every golf course of any note not only in Great Britain, but in this country as well, with the result that Merion’s East Course is the last word in golf course architecture. It has been improved each year until not it is almost perfect from a golf standpoint.
Philly Inquirer 1/14/17 – Billy Bunker
“Hugh Wilson built both the Merion courses and the course at Seaview.”
Philly Inquirer 1/28/17 – Billy Bunker
“Both the Merion Cricket Club courses were built under the direction of Hugh Wilson who also laid out the Seaview course.”
Philly Inquirer 4/22/17 – Billy Bunker
“An expert like Hugh Wilson, who built the two fine courses at Merion believes every club would have better putting greens if not for the craze for lightning-fast greens.
USGA Greens Section report – February 1925 (after Wilson’s death)
“The mature results of his studies in golf architecture are embodied in the East Course at Merion, which was remodeled under his direction in 1923-24. It is safe to say this his course displays in a superb way all the best ideas in recent golf course architecture along the lines of its American development. For a long time to come the East course will be a mecca to all serious students of golf architecture.”
George Thomas – Year unknown (quoted by Geoff Shackelford)
“I always considered Hugh Wilson of Merion, Pennsylvania as one of the best of our golf architects, professional or amateur (note the early need for distinction). He taught me many things at Merion and the Philadelphia Municipal (Cobb’s Creek) and when I was building my first California courses, he kindly advised me by letter when I wrote him concerning them.”
Geoff Shackelford – “The Captain”
“Thomas spent considerable time studying Hugh Wilson’s work during the construction of Merion Cricket Club’s East Course in 1912, its West Course in 1914, and at a municipal course in Philadelphia, now Cobb’s Creek.”
Golf Illustrated – July 20, 1934 – A.W. Tillinghast (a man who had been there since the beginning and witnessed the creation of Merion first-hand)
“There was peculiar pleasure in revisiting Merion after an interval of years for I have known the course since its birth. Yet, with it all, there was keen regret that my old friend Hugh Wilson had not lived to see such scenes as the National Open unfolded over the fine course that he loved so much. It seemed rather tragic to me, for so few seemed to know that the Merion course was planned and developed by Hugh Wilson, a member of the club who possessed a decided flair for golf architecture. Today the great course at Merion, and it must take place along the greatest in America, bears witness to his fine intelligence and rare vision.”
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One of the major points of contention when these Merion stories originally surfaced years back, and again recently, is the question of how Hugh Wilson and the Merion committee would have possibly learned about Alps holes, and Redan holes, and such without the benefit of Macdonald and Whigham's expert knowledge.
However, we now see that a course Hugh Wilson played as far back as his college years had an "Alps" hole back in 1896, (check out the picture halfway down the left side) and another notable course had a "redan" and a "himalayas", a "maiden", a "plateau", and a "Quarry", and a "Home" hole by the time it hosted the 1910 US Open.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B06E0D61338E233A25755C0A9649D94679ED7CF
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1910/ag44d.pdf
Can someone direct Patrick Mucci to this thread. ;)
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And who won the toonamint the article focused on? None other than HG Whigham in his first event since coming over from Scotland!
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Joe Bausch, fantastic research. Two questions. Do any of those articles from 1911 on name Wilson as Merion's builder or designer?
Also, do you know if there were any other Hugh Wilsons in or around Philadelphia then? I'm wondering if that trip in 1907 could be someone else, or if you are pretty sure it was our Hugh. May mean nothing, but the time between the 1907 article and the next article that mentions Hugh is a little over 7 months.
For your first question, I think MikeC tackled it pretty well.
Now, for your second: there was at least one other Hugh Wilson around Philly at that time. Hence, I have no proof of the identity of that Hugh Wilson on the 1907 ship. At least not yet.
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Joe Bausch:
I believe Jim Nugent referred to 1911 articles. Have you ever found an article from 1911 that mentioned that Hugh I. Wilson designed Merion? The first article I can think of off-hand is one from January 1912.
What is the significance (if any) of a Hugh Wilson trip in 1907 (if it was our Hugh Wilson?) Do you have evidence that the Hugh Wilson who traveled in 1907 did so to study golf courses? If so, why? And where did he play?
I noticed there was no listing for 1906. Should we assume he was studying courses in Europe during this period?
How about for any other seven month periods where he was not listed-- is it reasonable to conclude or eve suggest that he may have been traveling during all or any of these periods?
________________________
One of the major points of contention when these Merion stories originally surfaced years back, and again recently, is the question of how Hugh Wilson and the Merion committee would have possibly learned about Alps holes, and Redan holes, and such without the benefit of Macdonald and Whigham's expert knowledge.
However, we now see that a course Hugh Wilson played as far back as his college years had an "Alps" hole back in 1896, (check out the picture halfway down the left side) and another notable course had a "redan" and a "himalayas", a "maiden", a "plateau", and a "Quarry", and a "Home" hole by the time it hosted the 1910 US Open.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B06E0D61338E233A25755C0A9649D94679ED7CF
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1910/ag44d.pdf
Can someone direct Patrick Mucci to this thread. ;)
Mike, I'll assume you are serious about this post.
1) We've discussed the Country Club's "redan" on this board before. Did you read the description of the "Redan" at the Country Club in the same article?
2) What if any similarities were there between the 130 yard drop shot hole with railroad ties at Brookline and any of Macdonald's Redan's and/or the Redan at Merion?
3) What if any similarities were there between any of the holes you site and any of Macdonald's with a similar name, or any at Merion?
4) The older article mentions "alps holes;" can you describe these "alps holes" for us and how they influenced Wilson and how they were like the 10th at Merion or any of Macdonald's Alps holes.
5) When did Wilson play the CC at Brookline?
6) What is your basis for saying that these holes were were there the year he played them.
7) As I recall, Wilson indicates he was greatly influenced by NGLA and Pine Valley; have you any verifiable evidence that he was influenced by any of these holes you list, and if so how?
8 ) If I recall correctly, The Country Club underwent significant changes in the few years preceding 1910. How did this impact your conclusions?
9) Here is what Henry Leach, "the eminent British golf writer," had to say about Brookline's "redan" in 1912, according to the January 1913 American Golfer:
"The tenth hole is a most delightful short one, called the 'Redan,' after the famous piece of
golf at North Berwick; but Mr. Windeler had the second at Prestwick largely in mind when he designed it. Yet it is a far better hole than the second on the Ayshire links."
High praise, but do you think he is writing about a "redan" as we think of it?
10 ) Do you think your conclusions and thread title are reasonable, supported, and balanced, given the sources you have sited?
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At some point, and somehow, I really would like to know if Wilson went abroad in 1910 or not. The irony is, whether he went or didn't go, it makes no difference to the facts of who routed and designed Merion East and when.
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David,
You are incorrect in your understanding of what Jim Nugent asked. You wrote, "I believe Jim Nugent referred to 1911 articles. Have you ever found an article from 1911 that mentioned that Hugh I. Wilson designed Merion? The first article I can think of off-hand is one from January 1912. "
Jim actually asked, "Joe Bausch, fantastic research. Two questions. Do any of those articles from 1911 on name Wilson as Merion's builder or designer?"
1911 ON. That includes articles after 1911. Now, he may himself answer with, "Oops, Joe, I actually ONLY meant 1911" and that would certainly be proper if he did, but he did use the word "ON" after 1911 and that means in further years.
Joe Bausch answered correctly.
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David.
I only have a second right now but I think you understand my primary point; that these type holes just didn't start with MW but preceeded them and were even common knowledge by 1910.
Perhaps this explains why Merion's alps and redan holes were so poorly representative of the standard template holes that MW built?
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Phillip. Thanks. I missed the word on. Jim did mention "1911 on" and my question to Joe Bausch still stands.
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David.
I only have a second right now but I think you understand my primary point; that these type holes just didn't start with MW but preceeded them and were even common knowledge by 1910.
Perhaps this explains why Merion's alps and redan holes were so poorly representative of the standard template holes that MW built?
I do understand your primary point, but do not think it is at all supported by the articles you link.
No, dissimilar holes with the same names do not explain why Wilson's redan and alps were not exactly the same as those holes at NGLA. As far as I can tell, the holes you site had absolutely nothing to do with Wilson's attempts at building a Redan and Alps at Merion.
Is it fair to assume that you have nothing at all connecting these holes to what happened at Merion? Aside from the names of the holes, that is?
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DavidM: no, I have not yet found any article from 1911 mentioning Hugh Wilson as the designer of MEast.
I simply reported the articles I've unearthed. I'll leave it to others, for now, to decide whether a "Hugh Wilson" from the Philly area traveling to Glasgow in 1907 could somehow be meaningful. I'm not sure why you might want to assume I'm trying to prove anything at this time. I'm presenting data. Do with it as you please.
Regarding stuff from 1906: David, you should re-read my list. He is talked about in two tourneys at Merion that year (May 24 and July 1).
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And in that comprehensive search for our boy I forgot to look for "Hugh Irvin Wilson", using his actual middle name according to his birth certificate! Well, I've done another search and a grand total of one time, yep one stinkin' time, is he referenced this way in the Philadelphia Inquirer! It is a December 12, 1920 article where he and Mrs. Wilson have set up a dance in honor of their daughter of Louise.
Also, I thought this one I found from 1918 is fun to look at:
(http://darwin.chem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/05_18_1918_Inky_WarChest.jpg)
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David,
You are incorrect in your understanding of what Jim Nugent asked. You wrote, "I believe Jim Nugent referred to 1911 articles. Have you ever found an article from 1911 that mentioned that Hugh I. Wilson designed Merion? The first article I can think of off-hand is one from January 1912. "
Jim actually asked, "Joe Bausch, fantastic research. Two questions. Do any of those articles from 1911 on name Wilson as Merion's builder or designer?"
1911 ON. That includes articles after 1911. Now, he may himself answer with, "Oops, Joe, I actually ONLY meant 1911" and that would certainly be proper if he did, but he did use the word "ON" after 1911 and that means in further years.
Joe Bausch answered correctly.
Philip, that is exactly how I meant it.
I was wondering if any contemporary or nearly contemporary accounts said Wilson designed Merion. Seems like a whole lot did. I have to wonder, were they all wrong, and if so why? Was Tillie wrong, and if so, why?
David, if Merion's Hugh traveled to Scotland in 1907, seems real likely to me that he played golf there. The game was a big part of his life. He had been a top player from his university days on. He was a member of Princeton's greens committee -- suggesting he was real interested in golf courses -- and captain of their golf team. He played many matches for Merion, and took part in lots of tournaments.
Scotland was the cradle of the game. Home of many great courses. The surprising thing to me would be if Wilkson didn't play there. What golfing enthusiast, who was an excellent player and had a keen interest in courses, would not?
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Joe,
That picture explains it ALL!
Hugh Wilson and H.G. Lloyd are ONE and the SAME!!! :o :o :o
Talk about a "Philadelphia Conspiracy"!! ;) ;D
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Either that or Wilson was Horatio Lloyd Gates' evil twin, with a Gorbachev-type thing on his head! ;D
By the way, did you know that E.T. Stotesbury (center) drove the first ball at Cobb's Creek?
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Either that or Wilson was Horatio Lloyd Gates' evil twin, with a Gorbachev-type thing on his head! ;D
By the way, did you know that E.T. Stotesbury (center) drove the first ball at Cobb's Creek?
Oh yes, I know who E.T. is and his first drive at Cobb's. Did you forget who unearthed those articles? ;)
I was wondering if anybody would pick up on the photo mistake! Nice job.
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Joe,
Oh I didn't forget...I was just playing straight man to your scintillating stage presentation, tossing you a softball to blast out of the park. ;D
David,
I'm not sure if you are getting my point. For some years now your position, as well as Patrick Mucci's, was that the only way Hugh Wilson and Committee could have learned about the famous holes like the Redan and Alps was through the face-to-face meeting(s) with Macdonald and Whigham. Both of you also made it seem that these were foreign concepts to players of the time, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Whether or not the Redan at Brookline during 1910 or the Alps at Ardsley back in 1896 were good replicas is besides the point. The fact is that people were aware of these holes, and tried to emulate them, far, far before NGLA. This shouldn't be surprising at all given the number of Scottish professional emigrees in the country during those years. Tom MacWood's essay today showed a number of them like WIllie Campbell, who just happened to design the original holes at Brookline.. These were hardly foreign concepts, no pun intended.
Wilson and his committee were all friends with Tillinghast who not only knew an Alps from a Redan from an Eden, but had played many times with Old Tom Morris.
As you know, HJ Whigham even wrote a lengthy article in March of 1909 the described all of the holes at NGLA and included sketches. Do you think the guys at Merion hadn't read this?
I still don't know how they screwed up the redan however, particularly given Whigham's description;
"The third short hole is a copy of the Redan hole at North Berwick...The flag should be about 175 yards from the tee on a still day. Next to the 11th at St. Andrews the redan is conceded to be the best one-shot hole in the world. The green is protected by a deep bunker in front and is so narrow that it is necessary to play the shot with a good deal of backspin if it is played straight; but the conformation of the ground is such that the bunker may be avoided by playing to the right and allowing the ball to roll in toward the hole with the slope. Either shot requires considerable skill."
Hmm....deep bunker in front? Wonder if those folks at Brookline weren't so far off the mark? Recall that the fronting bunker at North Berwick had railroad sleepers at the time, as well.
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"7) As I recall, Wilson indicates he was greatly influenced by NGLA and Pine Valley; have you any verifiable evidence that he was influenced by any of these holes you list, and if so how? "
Just for the accuracy of the historical record with Hugh I. Wilson, I just don't like to see even the kind of distortion as the one above, at this point. I don't believe Hugh Wilson ever said he was influenced by Pine Valley or even NGLA for that matter. What he did say the only time I know of that he referred to NGLA or Pine Valley as far as either being an influence was this remark:
"May I suggest to any committee about to build a golf course, or to alter their old one, that they spend as much time as possible on courses such as the National and Pine Valley, where they may see the finest types of holes and, while they cannot hope to reproduce them in their entirety, they can learn the correct principles and adapt them to their own courses."
He was referring to architectural principles and he was making a suggestion to others, he was not exactly explaining what influenced him at Merion East or West. Hugh Wilson had already finished designing the first phase of Merion East and the West course almost before Pine Valley even began anyway. And secondly, he wrote that remark in 1916 when he and Flynn were about to launch into a fairly comprehensive second phase of the design of Merion East during which some of the holes that logically might have been suggestions or some influence from Macdonald were about to be redesigned or would be within less than a decade.
I do not believe any of that should be construed as some sort of disrespect or minimization of Macdonald in the context of Merion. It should merely be viewed in the context of what was done at Merion East in its rather remarkable app. 20 year evolutionary design phases.
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Often enough on these threads some insight or bit of information gets posted that strikes me so immediately as logical and sensible and intuitively correct that I feel better about not understanding many of the details. On another thread, Mike C wrote this:
"...From the perspective of those men, having played with and against Macdonald in competitions and such for a decade or so at that point, would have thought of him as an amateur sportsman first, and as an architect second, which is not how we think about him today"
And Tom paul wrote:
"It's not so much what kind of architect he was but more about what kind of man he was (an expert golf amateur/sportsman) and the way he was going about it (an amateur/sporstman architect with a committee of expert AMATEUR/SPORTSMEN golfers) which was definitely something of a first on the American golf and architecture scene!...Since some of them from Merion knew him well anyway, is it some coincidence that the men from Merion (a couple of committees of all amateur/sportsmen) were probably the very first to approach him?"
I'm not going to draw any conclusions or inferences. I'm just saying that in my opinion this makes perfect sense; it is BELIEVABLE.
Peter
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Peter:
I believe you and I have talked about that some or touched on it and Mike Cirba and I have talked about it too, even as recently as last night.
I just think to truly understand what Merion was doing then, even what they were asking or expecting from Macdonald, wasn't just about the architecture, it was the way he was going about the thing and WHY!
To ever really understand it, we have to know so much more about this sort of ethos from that time they referred to as "amateur/sportsmanship". I think the reason we have to know so much more about it (that so-called "Amateur/sportsman" ETHOS) is because it meant so much more to them than it does to us today!! It most certainly did to MCC and I can prove that with written documentation from that time.
The danger today to even discuss it, in my opinion, is that we will look at them as elitists or in some other unattractive or unadmirable way. I so strongly feel it was not necessarily that way to them in their time.
It's sort of a "glass-half-empty/glass half-full" kind of thing---it's not exactly that they hated professionals or professionalism, it's just that they so gloried in this thing they called "amateur-sportsmanship" which meant you did it because you loved it so much that remuneration was not necessay or even a point to be considered. Having said that, I am certainly not saying that I'm oblivious to the fact most of these people were rich!
I just think they saw and felt some kind of shining ideal that way, the understanding of which has sort of been lost to us in the winds of time. If ever there was a proponent of the idea of the "amateur/sportsman" in golf and in architecture in America it was most definitely Charles Blair Macdonald, and if anyone on here or anyone doing any kind of research on him doesn't understand THAT, they will never be able to understand much about HIM or the things he did and believed in, in my opinion!
I don't know that we should recreate anything about that time and idea or even try to but the least we can do is try to understand what they felt and why they did some of the things that were done in that time---their time.
Charles Blair Macdonald was a big man to them, and I think in some bigger ways to them than just golf course architecture----he represented one of the best examples of that ideal, that ethos of "amateurism" and the old fashioned idea and ideal and spirit of "sportsmanship" (doing something just for the love of it)!
I just wish more people on here could try to understand that better because I think it's the primary reason they turned to him. I think their idea and perhaps their only idea was to just ask him how he did it, so they could do what he was doing. I don't think it was ever their idea to ask him or get him to do any of it for them!
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We all know the legend.
A young, fresh-face, inexperienced, novice Insurance Man member is inexplicably picked by the vaunted Merion Cricket Club to design their new course and creates a masterpiece.
He makes a trip to the mountaintop to initially meet and visit with the sage CB Macdonald at National, absorbs the imparted wisdom, goes overseas to confirm that vision, and then voila!, alchemy ensues!
Seemingly coming out of nowhere to prominence, he creates a few more courses, but devotes his short life to the creation and modification of the Merion East course which he largely perfects before dying just after the 1924 US Amateur.
It makes a great Walter Mitty-ish, everyman story and I thought it appropriate to update this thread because to date a lot of the early findings that were posted here in prior months have really fleshed out a much more accurate and detailed picture of Hugh Wilson to a much greater degree than had been understood prior.
However, what wasn't known, until today, is that Hugh Wilson of Philadelphia was a member of the Metropolitan Golf Association based out of New York City, and played golf against CB Macdonald and Devereux Emmett as far back as 1903.
In 1901, the New York Times published the following article listing the top players in the section. Look carefully...
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More interesting is this 1903 match, which pitted the very best players in Philadelphia against the very best from New York City.
It clearly shows that Hugh Wilson, AW Tillinghast, and Howard Perrin all knew and competed against CB Macdonald, Dev Emmett, and other top names in the game a full seven years before Macdonald came to Merion to check on the new property they were considering.
These matches between Philly and NYC were apparently held twice a year, which would have certainly cemented both friendships as well as rivalries among the participants.
As a related aside, I was informed yesterday that Dr. Henry Toulmin, one of the five-member Merion Committee, laid out the first course for the Belmont Cricket Club in 1898, which shortly became known as Aronimink, a club whose first club champion was one Hugh Wilson .
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As a related aside, I was informed yesterday that Dr. Henry Toulmin, one of the five-member Merion Committee, laid out the first course for the Belmont Cricket Club in 1898, which shortly became known as Aronimink, a club whose first club champion was one Hugh Wilson .
Mike, what is the source of Toulmin laying out Belmont? This article from the May 4, 1896 issue of the Philadelphia Inquirer suggests Willie Campbell was involved, no?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3046/2719118091_79f44aca2a_o.jpg)
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Joe,
A little birdie told me that he received an ancient, long-anticipated, much-valued book yesterday, circa 1900 and Toulmin was one of three men named as responsible for the layout.
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Joe,
A little birdie told me that he received an ancient, long-anticipated, much-valued book yesterday, circa 1900 and Toulmin was one of three men named as responsible for the layout.
Ah, yes, I heard about that birdie but he didn't say that much to me. But I think the birdie will be more informative in the very near future.
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In prior discussions some of us have contended that Hugh Wilson was a very modest, humble man, who preferred to operate in the background without fanfare or bluster.
That modesty has been often mistaken here to make the case that Wilson knew very little about golf and golf courses. As has been seen on this thread, Wilson was involved with green committees and course construction all the way back to his Princeton days.
In that regard, it was wonderful to read another contemporaneous account the Joe Bausch unearthed the other day that outlined the changes Wilson made at Merion for the 1924 US Amateur. The most important parts are difficult to read, so I will type them here for easier viewing;
"Merion, always a fascinating and exacting golf course will be even more so for the 1924 United States amateur championship..."
"Merion has been improved upon. The improvements have brought out more of the course's beauty. That is not all."
"Changes judically conceived have made Merion, already a championship layout, into a much stiffer test..."
"Hugh I. Wilson, one of the best-known "turfologists" in these United States and an authority on golf architecture in propertion(sp?) is the man mainly responsible."
"He is chairman of the Greens Committee at Merion. Hugh Wilson does not court attention for his knowledge. He prefers to do things and allow his accomplishments to go unsung."
"Yet he is considerate. He has the interest of golf at heart, especially the Merion course and the national amateur championship."
"Trying to keep himself in the background, he has explained what has been done at Merion."
"In making ready the bunkered battleground for the next national amateur grapple, the first thing considered was the elimination of three shots over a much-used highway."
"This has been done. Four entirely new holes have been constructed. Three of them supplant holes that required shots over Ardmore avenue...."
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Merry Christmas, Mike.
I have two questions:
1) Are you sure it was your Hugh Wilson in those matches? The body of the article refers to an "H.J. Wilson" and then the agate type has a reference to H.J. Wilson. There's also a reference to H.I. Wilson in the agate. Maybe it's just a typo, but have you found any info on or looked for an H.J. Wilson?
2) When Wilson played in the (Spring) May 1902 intercollegiate championship at Garden City, was Macdonald abroad? Is there anything to suggest Macdonald may have attended that tournament?
Mark
PS McFarland apparently was a golfer of some note, losing in the finals of that Spring championship to Charles Hitchcock, part of one of the greatest dynasties in U.S. collegiate sports history.
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MikeC:
Those matches you refer to were called the "Intercity Matches." They began in 1900 between the Metropolitan Golf Association (New York) and the Golf Association of Philadelphia (GAP) and for the men they were the precusor to what became known as the Lesley Cup Matches which have been going on now for 103 years. A few years later Massachussets was added and a few decades later Quebec.
The same thing occured as early (around 1901) with the ladies and their intercity matches have always been known as the "Griscom Cup" since about the turn of the century (given I believe by Rodman Griscom---eg of MCC noteriety, and on Wilson's Committee for the design and construction of Merion East).
Griscom's sister Eleanor won the 1900 US Amateur.
I've been saying on here for many years that these people we now talk about on here, many of whom became these so-called "amateur/sportsmen" architects, certainly got to know each other in the Lesley Cup Matches if they didn't already know each other through golf or for other reasons.
Wilson did play in a few Lesley Cup Matches I believe and perhaps in a few of those "Intercity Matches" that were the early precusor to the Lesley Cup Matches.
Of course Macdonald played in them too as did all the best amateurs of the era from all those regions.
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Mark,
Merry Christmas!
In answer to your questions;
1) Yes that is definitely Hugh Wilson and when you blow up the article you can see that its not a J,,,its an I with a blotch of ink in front. There was no HJ Wilson.
2) I don't know..I'll look into it.
Thanks!
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Mark,
You had asked if C.B. Macdonald was abroad during the Intercollegiate Matches at Garden City in 1902.
I don't believe so. The reason I say that is the fact he played in matches that pitted the top universities against the top clubs just a few days prior at Garden City.
While Hugh Wilson and his Princeton team were playing and beating Richmond County CC, the powerful Yale team romped over Garden City, with Walter Travis being the only player to win significant points for the GCGC team as seen below;
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That match with Macdonald and Emmett present was April 27, 1902...
...on May 4th 1902 Garden City hosted their invitational tournament won by Walter Travis.
Among the high qualifiers for match play was one Hugh Wilson. I'm assuming that Macdonald was probably still around, but his name is not listed as making it to match-play.
The following articles show 1) The results of the May 4th Garden City Invitational, and 2) The teams playing for the Intercollegiate Championship starting May 5th with some really interesting names such as H. Chandler Egan, as well as Cecil Calvert, who went on to assist in the design of an early course at Aronimink.
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I jusr spent the day walking and photographing Hugh Wilson's Seaview course and I'm planning to put together one of those pictorial hole by hole essays that have been so popular here of late.
The resort here makes a big deal of their supposed Ross heritage, but I walked the place today armed with the original routing map as well as hole by hole descriptions from the course opening in 1914 (Ross wasn't here til 2 years later when he was purportedly brought in to add some pits to toughen it) and for the life of me I can't figure out what Ross may have done because the holes and bunkering are pretty much exactly as described on opening day of Hugh Wilsons course.
The evidence is pretty dranatic although I doubt they'd ever recognize or admit it here, so invested are they in perpetuating their dubious Ross legacy; they even have his name painted on the crown moulding!
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I jusr spent the day walking and photographing Hugh Wilson's Seaview course and I'm planning to put together one of those pictorial hole by hole essays that have been so popular here of late.
The resort here makes a big deal of their supposed Ross heritage, but I walked the place today armed with the original routing map as well as hole by hole descriptions from the course opening in 1914 (Ross wasn't here til 2 years later when he was purportedly brought in to add some pits to toughen it) and for the life of me I can't figure out what Ross may have done because the holes and bunkering are pretty much exactly as described on opening day of Hugh Wilsons course.
The evidence is pretty dranatic although I doubt they'd ever recognize or admit it here, so invested are they in perpetuating their dubious Ross legacy; they even have his name painted on the crown moulding!
So, what did they do? Hire Ross to draw those hole diagrams in the locker room?
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Kyle,
Yes, pretty much.
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Kyle,
Yes, pretty much.
Come on, there has to be more than that. There HAS to be reason for Ross to go to that effort.
Mind posting the routing and Wilson information you have when you get the chance?
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Kyle,
You'll see details this week but for now let me just say that Wilson's routing remains unchanged, the hole lengths are the same, and all of the major bunkers, features, and preferred strategies described for opening day remain intact.
Even the original geen features described remain untouched, even if a few have shrunk.
Other than perhaps possibly adding some bunkers here and there I really don't know what Ross did.
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Kyle,
You'll see details this week but for now let me just say that Wilson's routing remains unchanged, the hole lengths are the same, and all of the major bunkers, features, and preferred strategies described for opening day remain intact.
Even the original geen features described remain untouched, even if a few have shrunk.
Other than perhaps possibly adding some bunkers here and there I really don't know what Ross did.
Reasonable speculation that maybe bunkers were rebuilt or deepened with some other engineering considerations? I don't remember, but do the diagrams in the locker room have notes?
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Kyle
I'll shoot you what I have later this week and post it here as well but right now I'm sitting in one of Clarence Geist's hotel rooms typing on a Blackberry while Jen takes a nap.
Ahhh...the price we pay for diligent golf course archeology and in the dirt forensics! ;)
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Kyle
I'll shoot you what I have later this week and post it here as well but right now I'm sitting in one of Clarence Geist's hotel rooms typing on a Blackberry while Jen takes a nap.
Ahhh...the price we pay for diligent golf course archeology and in the dirt forensics! ;)
I'll check the weather records. No hurricanes hit the area, but maybe the course was blasted by a storm sometime.
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In a Joe Bunker article that did not show in my initial searches, is this about Ross and Seaview from the May 2, 1915 issue of the Philadelphia Inquirer:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3085/3141945806_3a46660a42_o.jpg)
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Joe,
I can't see that article on my blackberry but I just got back from loojing at the Ross blueprints.
Its what I thought...tweaks to Wilsons existing course. Some recommendations implemented, some never done, and no fundamental changes to Wilsons course.
I also have pics of all the blueprints with Ross's instructions that I'll get you this week.
Any update on the Til video or too busy playing? ;).
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If you guys are interested in doing a more complete design evolution study of Seaview (Wilson/Ross) I suggest you check the so-called "Agronomy Letters" between Piper and Oakley and Hugh Wilson. I don't think they reflect everything Wilson was doing and thinking with architecture during the teens but seemingly some of it.
Among other things there's some correspondence about the efficacy of taking a good deal of time developing the architecture of golf courses (if various factors allow and permit) and my recollection is they all agreed that would be the ideal (this idea discussed at that time between Wilson and P&O may've even been when and where Flynn got his own ideas and philosophy about letting a course go through a timespan of testing in play before bunkering schemes and such were fully developed and applied); and it seems to me in 1915 and 1916 Wilson may've been a bit preoccupied with upgrading the architecture of Merion East as well as the agronomy. There was a lot going on with Merion's courses in those two years.
He may've basically started the course off for his friend Geist (who eventually became a huge fan and friend of Flynn's). And, again, don't forget Wilson very much had another day job in another profession and he was always an upaid "amateur" never wanting to receive pay for GCA.
There is also something in there from Wilson about doing a fairly comprehensive wetland plan or work or filling in at Seaview, I believe. Wilson actually asked Piper and Oakley if the US Government needed to get into that kind of thing or even if they'd agree to do it or even pay for it for Seaview. My recollection is Piper and Oakley responded they (the US Government) didn't get into something like that for a golf course.
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Mike, basically what Joe Bunker said is as follows:
"Seaview is now being upholstered Donald Ross...(he) has plotted the course for traps and bunkers..."
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Getting back to Merion, in December 1916 in the American Golfer Tilly wrote:
"Merion continues the improvements, which were started before the Amateur championship. During that championship some suggestions were made by the wisest of visiting contestants and their observations did not fall on unheeding ears..."
This inspires a few questions:
1- What were these changes?
2- Who were these "wisest of visiting contestants" who made them?
3- Were others made after this date a resultof these wise "suggestions?"
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Mike, basically what Joe Bunker said is as follows:
"Seaview is now being upholstered Donald Ross...(he) has plotted the course for traps and bunkers..."
Joe
These days, a trap and a bunker are meant to be the same thing - though they shouldn't. What was the difference between the two 90 years ago?
Ciao
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Not going to get involved with the main part of this debate, but has anyone noticed anything of interest by reading the article (#97) Joe posted on Seaview dated May 1915.
The date of the article was 2nd May 1915 and by fall that year the course will be finished. So by 1915 the design construction process was still in the region of 3-4 months. No much seems to have changed since Old Tom’s days. This is approx the same time North Berwick took to extend their course in 1877 to a full 18 holes & also Braid Hills, to name but two. Also three times quicker that the Barry Course (Panmure GC).
Just an observation – I thought an very interesting one compared how some seem to have minimised the early designers efforts yet the duration to produce a course in the 20th Century seems remarkable similar to that of the 19th Century.
Melvyn
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Melvyn -
Joe Houghton spent years writing a novel. It wasn't very good and is now deservedly forgotten.
Time and effort are neither necessary nor sufficient to successful work product.
There are many arguments you might use to make your case for the quality of Victorian designs. But the fact that Victorian designers spent considerable time and effort on their courses is not one of those arguments.
Bob
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Bob
I believe it to be relevant based upon my research, but you have the right to disagree. I think we keep coming back to our opinions of what exactly the 19th Century guys actually did – but that’s not for this topic.
Melvyn
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In Dec 1914 Wilson resigned as chairman of the Merion green committee citing the need to give more time to his primary business.
Despite those concerns, in Jan 1915 Robert Lesley appointed him to the committee that was charged with design and construction of the city's first public course at Cobbs Creek, which could honestly be characterized as GAPs number one strategic initiative at the time.
Although Ross was ostensibly brought to Seaview to toughen it, he clearly must have liked much of what he saw there, because his proposed changes were mostly minor tweaks and subtle revisions as I'll outline later this week.
Also, a number of Ross's proposals, such as adding a second green to the 8th and then connecting them with a swale mowed as connecting greenspace were never implemented.
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PS Tom...I would love to read those letters this wonter,
PPS Phil..I don't know of any additional substantive changes made to Merion til 1924.
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"The date of the article was 2nd May 1915 and by fall that year the course will be finished. So by 1915 the design construction process was still in the region of 3-4 months. No much seems to have changed since Old Tom’s days. This is approx the same time North Berwick took to extend their course in 1877 to a full 18 holes & also Braid Hills, to name but two. Also three times quicker that the Barry Course (Panmure GC).
Just an observation – I thought an very interesting one compared how some seem to have minimised the early designers efforts yet the duration to produce a course in the 20th Century seems remarkable similar to that of the 19th Century."
Melvyn:
You need to know something about what you said regarding that May 2, 1915 newspaper article---eg it said the course would be finished in the fall. That kind of thing cannot be taken as a fact that the course was finished in the fall. There are all kinds of newspaper articles from particularly this area (Philadelphia) from that time that said the same things about various courses----eg they would be finished by this or that date, but the fact is they weren't as was the case with both Merion and Pine Valley. In both cases the construction of architecture went on for a number of years after those articles.
And we can even provide some information contained in letters (from the likes of Wilson) that states that that is a rather ideal way to go about it if the opportunity is provided to take that amount of time! And of course the next question might be what was it that led some of them to feel that way----was it that they could see the earlier rapid work on courses did not provide a desired result?
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Mike,
You may not know of any substantive changes, but evidently some work was done and changes did happen. It is probably on the level of adding and/or subtracting bunkers or maybe some slight tee adjustments.
Still, it would be interesting if it could be identified as well as those responsible for the suggestions.
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Or Tom
That you guys over there kept changing your minds. But there you go again yet again totally ignoring the fact that not all our courses pre 1900 were quickly built.
Any relation to Tom Simpson? >:(
Melvyn
PS I'm leaving this topic until you can confirm who designed Merion ;)
Wilson, yes I know that name from somewhere, just can't quite remember, was it something to do with coping our ideas on layout of holes on our courses or have I got it wrong again, don't remember any comments from Simpson though, surprising having already criticised their original designers. Oh well, I'll leave you with that one to figure out. :D
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"Or Tom
That you guys over there kept changing your minds. But there you go again yet again totally ignoring the fact that not all our courses pre 1900 were quickly built."
Melvyn:
What I'm interested in is determining what-all those men who made those remarks contained in post #19 were talking about (Simpson seems to so negatively effect you perhaps he should be left out of this).
All you've done is just completely dismiss what they all said and you've apparently just chalked it all up to self promotion and rubbish, nothing more. I suspect it was a whole lot more than just that in reality
If this is as far as the discussion or the looking into the realities of much of the architecture of that time is going to go I really don't want to pursue the subject and I'm sorry for Dan Hermann that his interesting question got dismissed and side-tracked as it did, even if this isn't the same thread----but it has veered to the same subject between us.
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In a Joe Bunker article that did not show in my initial searches, is this about Ross and Seaview from the May 2, 1915 issue of the Philadelphia Inquirer:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3085/3141945806_3a46660a42_o.jpg)
The Seaview course was originally supposed to open in early 1914. In fact, in December 1913 Tillinghast reported;
"The new Sea View course,at Absecon is coming on beautifully. The fall seeding has been blessed with fortunate weather condition and greens and fairways already are beautifullygreen. Here is another course that I must inspect carefully before attempting a critical review (like Merion in early 1913, comments mine)."
Mr. Clarence H. Geist, the president, announces plans for a palatial club house, a feature which golfers at the Atlantic City shore will appreciate."
However, exactly one year later, Tilinghast again reported;
"The new course at Sea View Club is coming along beautifully and Mr. C.H. Geist announces that there will be a formal opening sometime soon after the holidays and without doubt the occasion will be a memorable one."
"Mr. Geist was seriously indisposed for nearly five weeks but as soon as his physician permitted him to leave the house he went immediately to the club and began preparations for this opening."
A month later, Tillinghast reported;
"Mr. Clarence H. Geist, president of the Seaview Golf Club, at Absecon,N. J., likes to do things on a generous scale. He announces a winter tournament for the opening of the new course, and the trophy which the president offers for the first flight is an unusually fine one. The tournament, a strictly invitation event, is scheduled to begin on Monday, January 11, and it continues through four days. But on the preceding Saturday, January 9, the course really will be formally opened by the playing of a four-ball match over thirty-six holes."
The calibre of the quartette leaves nothing to be desired. Mr. Charles ("Chick") Evans, Jr., is to be partnered by National Champion Mr. Francis Ouimet and this formidable pair will be opposed by Mr. Jerome D. Travers and Mr. Oswald Kirkby. I am reliably informed that the only doubtful participant is Mr. Ouimet, but it is to be hoped that he can arrange to be present for this match, which would be worth going miles to see."
"Mr. Boyd Carrigan, Seaview's general manager, tells me that greenkeeper William Connellan will have the course in very fine condition, and that the putting greens will be a revelation to those who have not already seen them. They are excellent."
"Doubtless the announcement of a Northern tournament at such a late date will surprise many readers, but the Jersey coast really provides surprisingly good golf throughout the winter months. Philadelphia golfers have long been in the habit of journeying to Atlantic City for golf, when the conditions elsewhere were quite impossible. Frequently when Phila-delphia has inches of snow covering the streets, Atlantic City is as dry as a bone, and very comfortably mild too. To be sure, there are days when the wind asserts itself, but on the whole there is little fault to be found with the weather."
"The Seaview men declare that these winter tournaments will be very popular when players generally begin to appreciate the favorable weather conditions which usually exist. However, there was one occasion, some years back, when Fate was not kind. The writer, going frequently to Northfield in those days, was very keen about this comfortable winter golf, and more than once had attempted to induce some of his Metropolitan friends to try it. Finally persistancy was rewarded and a telegram announced that Mr. Archie Graham and Mr. Charles Seeley would arrive at "the shore" on the evening train. It was Washington's Birthday and it is doubtful if a colder night ever had closed down on a day dedicated to the
Father of His Country. Just before dark a small blizzard came howling down the boardwalk and nearly everyone sought the fireplaces. A bus
rumbled up to the hotel and as the door opened a bellboy was blown in by the force of the gale. He carried two golf bags, and they were frozen stiff as boards. Then came two ulsters, Mr. Seeley was in one, Mr. Graham in the other. They regarded me sorrowfully, indeed there seemed to be just a suggestion of menace in their countenances, which fact was not altogether pleasing."
""Nice warm little spot!" observed one. "I suppose you would call it about right for a dip in the surf,— wouldn't you?" And during the entire evening the batteries of irony and ridicule were actively shelling my trenches Certainly it was no fault of mine when they picked out the most frigid
day of the winter to test my story. We never got anywhere near the golf
course."
"But such days really are exceptions, and it is more than probable that the
Seaview January tournament will be a mighty pleasant one. The new club
house is a marvel. Everything is included in the arrangements and appointments. We will attempt some description next month, at which time
the January tournament will be reviewed."
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In February 1915, Tillinghast reported;
"When the Seaview Golf Club, Absecon, New Jersey, sent out invitations for a four days' tournament, beginning January 11th, golfers rubbed their eyes in astonishment a n d looked the second t i m e to see if they had r e a d aright. The very audacity of the proposal was astounding. Who had ever heard of such an ambitious tournament in the North during midwinter?"
"It was well-known t h a t the New Jersey courses along the sea c o a s t offered very decent g o l f throughout the winter, but e v e r y now and then of course bad days would come along when play would be most uncomfortable. But Seaview proposed not only to gamble on four days of good weather, but in reality six, for the formal opening of the club was scheduled for the preceding Saturday. Mr. Clarence H. Geist, President of
the new organization, in his characteristic, decisive way, determined that the club should be opened at this time, and opened it was without frigid weather interfering, although a severe rain storm on Tuesday night made its appearance. Coming in from the sea the storm shook the houses to their very foundations and the rain fell in torrents until it seemed that it would render any course unplayable. In the morning the tide was well up over the meadows and around the sixth green and the seventh teeing ground, but so perfectly did the course drain, that play on all other holes was unhampered, and in the afternoon the entire course was playable in its entirety."
"As an opening event on Saturday a four ball match was scheduled, — Mr. Jerome D. Travers and Mr. Oswald Kirkby w e r e to oppose Mr. Charles Evans, Jr., and Mr. William C Fownes, Jr., but the last named was unable to be present and his place was taken by M r . Cameron B . Buxton. A special train from Philadelphia brought over five hundred people to Absecon, and at half past one it was estimated that over eight hundred were in the clubhouse, waiting for the match to begin. Mr. A. W. Tillinghast of Philadelphia acted as referee."
"At the start the players showed the effects of their lack of practice, but after a few holes they were getting into the ball with much of their accustomed vigor. As the match came to the seventeenth hole, all even, the gallery became keenly interested. Mr. Evans had been playing his strokes crisply, but for the most part putting rather erratically, as were the others, although the greens were in fine condition. On the short thirteenth it seemed as though the Westerner would snatch a hole for his side when
he played a fine pitch within a dozen feet of the cup, but Mr. Travers, true to tradition, followed with one just inside and both barely missed their twos. Mr. Evans had a longish putt on the seventeenth green for a half, but he holed it bravely. After the drives on the long eighteenth each one of the four under-clubbed with his second although a half in par figures resulted."
"Both Mr. Evans and Mr. Travers put their second shots on the nineteenth green and Mr. Evans, from the very edge of the green elected to use a lofted club for his approach putt. His ball hit the back of the cup with considerable speed and came to rest about eighteen inches on the far side.
Mr. Travers also hit the back of the cup with his approach putt and an almost similar putt presented itself to each man, but " Chick" was slightly away and he missed a very easy one by pulling it slightly, and then "Jerry"
with great deliberation ended the match by holing his putt. Mr. Evans was out in 43 and back in 38 with an approximated 7 on the second hole, where he got into difficulty when he pitched his third from the road over the green.
"Mr. Buxton assisted on two holes, the second where he got a 6 and the eleventh, where he holed a long putt for a two. The best ball of the Metropolitan pair was 81, each finding trouble on the eighth hole."
In May of 1915, the same month as the Donald Ross article Joe posted, Tillinghast reported the following three very historically-related events;
"Work has started on the new public course by Cobb's Creek, and another course will be constructed at Torresdale."
National champion Francis Ouimet spent several days in Philadelphia last month. He played at Whitemarsh first but he failed to break 80. However this performance must not be taken seriously for the ability of his fellows was very mediocre and the day could be regarded only as a skylark. However, on the next day he played at Seaview, where his play was more nearly like that which is expected of a national champion. There he scored a 73, partnered in a four-ball match by Mr. Hugh I. Wilson and opposed by Mr. C. H. Geist and Wilfrid Reid, the recently arrived pro., formerly of Banstead, England."
"Seaview has called in Donald Ross to build traps, and his ideas, together with those of Wilfrid Reid, should stiffen the Absecon course considerably."
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It should be noted that the course at Seaview was actually open in 1914 for member play, but Clarence Geist wanted a grand opening, thus his January 1915 tournament.
In October, 1914, a lengthy article appeared in the Philadelphia papers that described the overal philosophy and goal of the course, then a hole by hole description, as well as a routing map. Those who have played the course may want to check the routing against todays...
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For comparison purposes, here's an aerial of the course today.
The routing hasn't changed at all since the course opened in 1914.
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"As a related aside, I was informed yesterday that Dr. Henry Toulmin, one of the five-member Merion Committee, laid out the first course for the Belmont Cricket Club in 1898, which shortly became known as Aronimink, a club whose first club champion was one Hugh Wilson ."
MikeC:
The original Belmont course was actually laid out by three club members----eg Harriosn Townsend, Dr. J.A. Davis and Dr. H. Toulmin (who later served on Hugh Wilson's Merion committee).
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Test...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/3147936506_3b44bebea1.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3077/3147742396_930d63bb6d.jpg?v=0) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/3147771618_953bcea4c3.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3105/3147793906_e4db87b3f4.jpg?v=0)
Oh man...I love technology sometimes.. ;D
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MikeC:
This kind of thing reminds me of a hole by hole master plan (recommended changes) that Ross did for GMGC ten years after the course was built except with ours Ross's recommendations are done by him freehand with fairly detailed textual and diagram instructions. Most were done but not all.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/3147936488_72a85ba7db.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3210/3147741844_103b0315e1.jpg?v=0)(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/3147836630_1653a7ff27.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/3147891820_9167ab175e.jpg?v=0)
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What I presented above is two examples of the following;
First Image - An October 1914 hole description of the original Hugh Wilson course
Second Image - Drawing by Donald Ross of Proposed Changes
Third Image - Aerial of the hole as it exists today
Fourth Image - Blowup of Ross's Proposed Change Instruction.
If there is interest, over the next week I'll start a hole by hole segment on a new thread, and then will add ground level photos and commentary.
Whaddyathink?
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Here's an example of what I'm thinking...they won't all be this good. ;)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/3147936506_3b44bebea1.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3077/3147742396_930d63bb6d.jpg?v=0) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/3147771618_953bcea4c3.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3105/3147793906_e4db87b3f4.jpg?v=0)
From the tee, the strategic play is to skirt the nest of bunkers down the right side.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/3147141619_980d420f09.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/3147141661_0da29df7d0.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/3147141689_66207c4311.jpg?v=0)
A drive down the shorter left side is never a good play.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/3147975178_9cc563d285.jpg?v=0)
Even if you crush one...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/3147975202_c2b80e6c0c.jpg?v=0)
A big drive skirting past the right side bunker leaves this preferred angle.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/3147975304_bdb9c61f08.jpg?v=0)
This tiny pot short right is one of the many whimsical touches at Seaview.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/3147975348_e273ff653b.jpg?v=0)
A hidden matching pot behind the right side awaits the poor approach through the green from an oblique angle approaching from the left;
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3249/3147975396_1c80ec73a5.jpg?v=0)
A look from just short of the left-front bunker shows what is a beautifully simple green strategy, masterfully executed.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3118/3147975470_fc13678ddd.jpg?v=0)
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I'd say yes, I would be interested in following this along...
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Mike:
I'm not sure what a hole by hole analysis this way is supposed to prove or could prove. Would it be to try to prove that Wilson actually did more and Ross did less on that course than the club or others recognize or admit to?
If that's the case, if all you have of the way Wilson left it is some newspaper descriptions of the way the holes played or were before Ross ever got there I don't know that this excercise would be worth it for fairly obvious reasons----eg how architecturally detailed could those newspaper descriptions be anyway, not to mention the detail included in Ross's plans and drawings of proposed work to come----eg I doubt he'd be drawing detailed recommended changes to the course that were already on the course or part of it. What would be the point of that? ;)
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Tom,
The news clips provide enough flavor in most cases and the Ross drawings are a combination of as-is along with his suggested changes fully detailed and drawn in.
The aerials and ground photos show whether those proposed changes were implemented in part or whole.
I think if nothing else it will provide a pretty clear indication of who did what on that course; the most recent speculation by Ron Whitten was that Wilson did the routing and then Ross did all the bunkering and other feature work.
I'll simply present the evidence and let others make their own determinations.
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Mike:
In that case, what is the date of the oldest available aerial on that course? The closer you can get to the opening of the course the better (even though there are few aerials done before around the early 1920s ;) and then just compare it to Ross's architectural suggestions on his hole by hole plans.
That should tell you about what was done from Ross's plans. Again, I doubt Ross included things in his architectural recommendations that were already done. ;)
You say Whitten said Wilson just did the routing and that's it?
I don't think so as I believe we have some letters between Piper and Oakley and Wilson that mention that Wilson was going with construction foreman Fred Pickering again at Seaview (despite his previous boozing), (I'll check those files or check with Wayne) so he must have been into construction and well past just a routing.
If you have newspaper accounts of the course's opening IN PLAY before Ross ever got there I'd say Wilson (and a construction crew) did a whole lot more than just a routing! It sounds to me like they brought a course into play if people were playing it before Ross ever got there! ;) ??? ::)
Are you sure you've really checked everything out on Seaview? There must be more information somewhere hiding in the woodwork!! I mean really, if this was 1914 Wilson had only been into architecture for three years max and during that time he seemed to only talk about and write about agronomy anyway! SO, wouldn't he still have to be considered a total NOVICE in architecture??
Are you sure Macdonald/Whigam or H.H. Barker weren't around somewhere at Seaview to show him what to do? How many times did that Philadelphia contingent try to diss Macdonald and refuse to give him credit for what was due him?
Really Michael, if you're going to proceed with some excercise like this the first thing you should do is check with Moriarty and MacWood to see if they think Seaview should be attributed to C.B. Macdonald!
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MikeC:
Good to talk to you just now and as I said I was beginning to get concerned about where and what the specific attribution was to Wilson laying out Seaview and as I mentioned we should plug that all back in on here so people don't automatically start wondering about that and question that attribution.
As for Colt, I think that is pretty interesting and given all those coincidences and pretty perfect timelining and such I don't think it would be unreasonable at all to just mention that he very well may've gone down to Seaview around June 1913 and probably with Wilson as it seems pretty likely he must have been staying with him for their wives to get to meet and know each other like they seemingly did.
PS:
Maybe someone should pass some of this on to Ron Whitten as he might want to update or correct that 2006 article he wrote on Seaview and Wilson/Ross.
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MikeC:
Good to talk to you just now and as I said I was beginning to get concerned about where and what the specific attribution was to Wilson laying out Seaview and as I mentioned we should plug that all back in on here so people don't automatically start wondering about that and question that attribution.
As for Colt, I think that is pretty interesting and given all those coincidences and pretty perfect timelining and such I don't think it would be unreasonable at all to just mention that he very well may've gone down to Seaview around June 1913 and probably with Wilson as it seems pretty likely he must have been staying with him for their wives to get to meet and know each other like they seemingly did.
PS:
Maybe someone should pass some of this on to Ron Whitten as he might want to update or correct that 2006 article he wrote on Seaview and Wilson/Ross.
Tom Paul,
Agreed on all counts.
I think it's very, very important to go through this exercise for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the simple fact that Seaview was/is one of the most historically important courses built at that critical juncture in the early teens.
Stay tuned. ;D
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I just went back to re-read some of this thread that stretches back a bit and recall Joe Bausch's mention that a Society Page listing he came across talked about a Hugh Wilson sailing abroad in 1907 to Glasgow, Scotland.
As you might imagine, those articles only mentioned folks in higher echelons of society, which we might find to be certainly a bit snooty in our more egalitarian times, but perhaps not.
In any case, I found the manifest in question, and indeed this "Hugh Wilson" was travelling First Class with a Mrs. H. Wilson, and there was at least one other Philadelphia socialite...an "E. P. Biddle" on board. Others with more knowledge of such things as Social Registers might recognize additional names.
At this point we don't know if this was our Hugh Wilson, or the nature of the voyage, but given what we know about his golf and sporting interests at this point it would be difficult to imagine a completely golf-celibate trip to the motherland of the game if indeed this was our man.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/3149854302_fbfa7cc359.jpg?v=0)
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Here's an April 9, 1915 Philadelphia Inquirer report of the match involving Ouimet, Reid, Geist, and Hugh Wilson:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3258/3150301548_bc2bfabf8f_o.jpg)
Mike, we need to check out the Philadelphia Record, Philadelphia Press, the Evening Public Ledger, etc in late 1914 and early 1915 for stuff about Seaview. Another gathering at the Free Library is in order!
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Joe,
Perhaps this weekend or next?
We should go back into the spring of 1913, at least, to see what might have been reported re: HS Colt's visit to Merion and Seaview.
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Joe and Mike:
The spring and summer of 1913 would be the time to start looking for the beginning (laying out) of Seaview. Somebody mentioned Colt went to Seaview around May/June of 1913 because I've seen it. It may've been Tillinghast.
E. Biddle of Philly was Edward Biddle, the Biddle that first married into the Drexel family. His wife Emily Drexel (A.J. Drexel's daughter) was something of a tomboy as well as a fairly accomplished musician and she died quite young under some very odd circumstances. Apparently one of her friends questioned her strength and she proceeded to attempt to lift a grand piano and unfortunately it ended up killing her.
At that point A.J. who really didn't like his son-in-law Edward Biddle told him that no gentleman would try to claim his young wife's wealth and so AJ. cut the guy out of the family but agreed to take his children and take care of them and eventually make them rich. One of those children of Edward and Emily was Anthony Drexel Biddle who was the guy the book, Broadway play and eventually Disney movie "The Happiest Millionaire" was done about. He was quite a guy and a real eccentric. Among other things he taught Heavyweight boxing champion Gene Tunney how to box.
I don't believe they were golfers but most of the rest of their family certainly was and it would be pretty unusual if Hugh Wilson did not basically know them all. Some of them were the originators of Philly CC and on its first team in the late 1890s----eg Louis , Clarence and Lynnford Biddle. My own grandmother was a Biddle but I can't tell you at the moment which of them was her father. She married a man by the name of A.J. Drexel Paul. His father, James W. Paul, owned Woodcrest (presently Cabrini College) and he owned the land St. Davids GC is on. He was given this land by his father-in-law, A.J. Drexel who essentially created and named the town of Wayne (previously Louella) with his business partner George Childs the publisher of the Philadelphia Ledger.
But to truly understand the development of this entire area, particularly the app 40,000 acre part that has come to be known as the "Main Line" with its land planning, clubs and golf courses one needs to follow the creation and evolution of the Pennsylvania Railroad which through the involvement and financing of various of these people named including the firms of E.W. Clark and J.P. Morgan and Drexel became not only the most powerful railroad in America but apparently at one point the largest capitalization of any corporation in the world.
It's reach and influence was enormous and almost wherever you look in early golf in this area it was there and essentially controlled things in one way or another. I guess one might say it was something of an interwinning monopoly but if one follows its history it's pretty easy to see how it really was a win, win, win, win..... situation for this area and just about everything that went on around here in the world of finance, transportation (it created Montgomery Ave, the Lancaster Pike and the rail lines) mercantilism, industrialism, suburban residential development etc. All in the Pennsylvania Railroad company's own rail lines covered 30,000-40,000 miles and then it began to buy up other American rail companies and "roads". By 1970 it went down the tubes in one of the largest American bankruptcies on record to that time and basically morphed into a governemnt controlled rail complex we now know as Amtrak.
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Joe,
Perhaps this weekend or next?
We should go back into the spring of 1913, at least, to see what might have been reported re: HS Colt's visit to Merion and Seaview.
This or next Saturday should work for me.
The invite is again open to any of the Philly GCA'ers that perhaps have a date or tourney to search for on microfilm. I'll show you the ropes if you wish. ;D
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Joe,
I'd suggest you plan for a week from Saturday... It will give you Philly guys something to do as the Iggles should be out of the playoffs after this one! ;D
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Joe/Mike,
Once the NFL playoffs are done, I'll definitely be there to help research. We should also do a roadtrip to Seaview. I'm beginning to get golf withdawal.
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Joe/Mike,
Once the NFL playoffs are done, I'll definitely be there to help research. We should also do a roadtrip to Seaview. I'm beginning to get golf withdawal.
Golf withdrawal?! Did they close French Creek for the season?!
Today was the first day in 5 that I did not play. Kyle and I did a pretty neat mostly muni tour the last four days: Cobb's Creek, Jeffersonville, Pitman, and Island Green. ;D
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Joe - nah, FC is wide open! I've just been working a lot and doing the Christmas fun stuff.
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Joe,
I'd suggest you plan for a week from Saturday... It will give you Philly guys something to do as the Iggles should be out of the playoffs after this one! ;D
The odds of the Iggles losing at the Vikes this weekend are approximately the same as Far and Sure being HH Cornish.
;)
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Has anyone ever come across this one before? In all of our discussions I can't recall ever seeing it.
In the February 1916 issue of American Golfer, AW Tillinghast writing as "Hazard" wrote the following;
"Certainly a reference to the Merion Course over which the championship of 1916 will be played, must be of interest. The course was opened in 1912, and the plans were decided upon only after a critical review of the great courses in Great Britain and America."
"It was the first of the two eighteen hole courses at Merion, the West Course being opened several years later. The distances are admirable and altogether Merion presents a good test of golf, but in view of the fact that the National title is to be decided there next September, a number of hazards will be introduced to bring the play closer to championship demands."
"Many of the hazards are natural, and a creek which winds through the tract is encountered frequently. Probably the most interesting section is found at the very end of the round; certainly the last three holes are the most spectacular , for a large stone quarry has been converted to a hazard of immense proportions."
"The sixteenth hole finds it immediately in front of the green, and it must be carried by a courageous well hit second. The seventeenth calls for a tee shot to the green, immediately over the excavation and again it has to be carried in driving for the home hole."
"Other holes present the characteristics of the famous Redan and the Alps of Prestwick. Ben Sayers, the wellknown professional of North Berwick, spends a great deal of time at Merion, where his son George is engaged, and he declares that the course is thoroughly good."
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Mike -
It's remarkable how many architects crossed paths at the Ivies just after the turn of the century. Wilson would have crossed paths with Chandler Egan who graduated from Harvard in '04. Egan won the '02 collegiate title. I would assume Wilson played in that tournament too. Myopia was the Harvard home course, though they played other courses in the area. Sometime in the '40's, the team started playing more at The Country Club. I suspect because it was so much closer to campus.
Bob
What did this change? " Myopia was the Harvard home course, though they played other courses in the area. Sometime in the '40's, the team started playing more at The Country Club."