Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Craig Rokke on June 21, 2002, 05:56:32 PM
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I was thumbing though T&L Golf at the doctor's office today,
and a feature ranking Ross's "Top 10 Publics" drew my attention. Wilmington N.C. was ranked #1. Some of the others on the list that I remember:
Bobby Jones Muni, Fla
Manakiki CC, OH
Rackham GC, MI
Bedford Springs, PA
I would say most of the list was of the hidden gem variety. In fact I had never even heard of Bedford Springs in PA. If anyone has played this course, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Any other Ross daily fees that merit consideration?
Mark Twain in NY wasn't on the list, but I've always heard good things about that course.
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I don't know how such a list could leave off Southern Pines. It is an Elks club but open to the public and I would imagine that qualifies for daily fee, in addition to its resort neighbors at Mid and Pine Needles. They are much more expensive, however and one wouldn't play them regularly unless wealthy. But SP is affordable for the regular multiple times a week player.
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Mr. Daley's right. How could Southern Pine be left out? I love that golf course.
And Mark Twain too? Wow, it too should be high on the T&L Golf list.
Roseland in Windsor, Ontario -- right across the river from Rackham -- is also a fun municipally-owned daily-fee course originally laid-out by Ross in 1926. I think it's 35 Canadian dollars to play Roseland -- a real bargin for Detroiters consiering today's exchange rate!
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I haven't seen the list but I don't think Bobby Jones Municipal in Sarasota belongs on it. It has a lot of history and all of the old-time greats played there including matches between Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth but the conditioning is spotty at best and architecturally speaking there is just not much to get excited about.
Of the Ross public courses I've played I would nominate the Panorama Course at The Balsams and Broadmoor East, but I guess they would be classified as resort courses.
I also liked Manakiki CC which is outside of Cleveland. Very good variety of holes and a lot of elevation changes.
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Such lists are always tough, esp. as it is not always clear what is meant by public - do they mean municipal, daily-fee, or any course open to to the public, which would include Southern Pines as well as Pinehurst no. 2.
Am still waiting for anything better than Wilmington. Manakiki is a neat layout but any Ross was long ago buried there.
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Bedford Springs is an old hotel/spa that has been closed down for a number of years. It is north of Cumberland, Maryland about 70 miles from Pittsburgh (+-).
The course is intact due to no money to change it. It remains open and Maintained poorly, but the layout is great. Someone in that area may be able to be more descriptive, but having played it a 1/2 dozen times, I remember a great Par three on the back side where the green sits forty or so feet above the tee. Big undulating greens with plenty of ground options. There is another par 4 hole ,front side? with a downhill tee shot and a diagonal set of cross bunkers in the landing area. Every time I played there I was reminded of the Movie "The Shining". with Nicholson. I don't know what has happened there in the last seven years, but there were always rumore about a sale and a reopening.
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Welshire in Denver is a shadow of its former self, but fun to look at and el-cheapo. Fun greens to look at. All the abandoned bunkers can be found if you think where to look and know what to look for.
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Bill S-
Thanks for the insight into Bedford. I inquired because it's
in a convenient meeting locale for myself and a few buddies
from around PA. You were reminded of The Shining---
sounds interesting! Sometimes I do feel like I'm swinging an axe out on the course.
I wish I had the list in front of me. I think there were
a couple more florida courses on it.
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There are quite a few public access Ross courses in Florida, but most have been revamped to some degree over the years and even if they hadn't, they probably couldn't compare to much of his better work. I don't believe he was personally involved in the construction of most of them, with the primary exception of several in the southeast.
Hyde Park in Jacksonville remains a fair representation of the original design, with only some fairway bunkers filled in, some tee work, and one or two greens rebuilt. It's a straightforward course with lacking in real intrique, but the final five holes are pretty rousing taking advantage of the only elevation changes on the property.
There is also a little course southwest of Jax in the town of Keystone Heights that has nine original Ross holes (along with another nine added in 1959). I'm told the Ross holes haven't been changed, and although they're far from must-see golf, they are fascinating in their own right with tilted, microscopic greens and simple yet effective front bunkering. The Ross holes traverse some nice hilly property as well, the atmosphere is quiet and country, and it all costs about $10 to $18. There's definitely enough there to make you smile. :)
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Great Donald Ross Courses You Can Play
Paul Dunn and B.J. Dunn,The Derrydale Press, 2001
Over 100 Ross courses open to the public
You can literally travel the country and play for a reasonable fee!
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The top-10 list:
1. Wilmington Muni, N.C.
2. Triggs Memorial, R.I.
3. Rockham GC, MI
4. Hyde Park, FLA
5. Bobby Jones, FLA
6. Manakiki GC, OH
7. Bedford Springs GC, PA
8. Fort Myers CC, FLA
9. George Wright GC, MA
10 New Smyrna Beach Muni GC, FLA
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Triggs is an absolutely great Ross course in Providence, RI. It's rough around the edges but the course has not been changed from Ross's original intentions. Another wonderful Ross design which is a municipal course is Shennecossett (sp?) in Groton, Ct. A few holes were changed recently in a land swap with Mark Mungeam or Brian Silva as the architect. Anyway, well worth playing.
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The Belleview Biltmore in Bellair Bluffs, Fl. has just been re- built,supervised and to my understanding part funded by the Donald Ross Society. This is a gem. It will make your eyes happy just to look down the fairway at what you will be challenged by next. If you are a Ross fan and are ever in the St. Petersburg, Clearwater area don't miss playing this gem.
I play it every year.
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The Orchards in South Hadley, MA should be moving up anyone's list. I played there a month ago for the first time. They will host the Women's Open in 2004 and a restoration project is underway. When we played there I was told that an irrigation project has been a disaster and is being upgraded.
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I can't believe no one has mentioned Linville in Linville North Carolina. Although you must be a guest of the little lodge at the course to play it, it is still a "daily fee." It is a beautiful Ross course without significant revisions to the original design (according to very engaging pro shop staff) and in great shape. Linville is up in the mountains of western North Carolina a few hours from Highlands/Cashiers areas. An absolutely phenomenal mid summer respite from the heat.
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Bellevue Biltmore in Floirida was not the beneficary of any Donald Ross Society funding. Credit for it should really go to architect Chip Powell, who worked without detailed Ross plans but seemed to get a lot of the old feel and ground game right, nonetheless.
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What about the Hill Course in French Lick, IN? A ton'o'fun and well worth the trip. Ran has an excellent write-up on it.
rob
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Two of my favorite Ross courses are Granville Golf Club east of Columbus in Granville, Ohio and Greenock Country Club in Lee, Mass. Granville is very close to the original with holes numbers 15, 16, and 17 being brand new and were part of a land swap with the subdivision that was recently added. The 18th hole their is one of my all-time favorites as it sits 125 to 150 feet above the fairway and offers a great view of the surrounding area. Greenock is a little 9-hole course (3,100 yards-ish) that is just a well-routed fun course to play. As far as I know, it is mostly-unchanged from its original design. Also, if you are in the area of Lee, Ma, I would recommend playing Cranwell resort for a good Stiles and Van Kleek course.
As for one of the previous responses, as of a recent phone call, the Orchards Golf Club in Mass. became private a year or two ago when Arnold Palmer Golf Mangmt took it over and is still private right now. Otherwise, I would love to play the course.
As was previously mentioned, the Balsams Grand Resort's Panorama course is a very good Ross course that offers a great twilight rante of two for the price of one greens fees that with a cart works out to be $45 per person. The only problem is that the course is about an hour shy of Canada in NH which puts it in the middle of nowhere.
Finally, the Sagamore Golf Club in Bolton Landing, NY is a very good Ross course that was supposedly restored with the original design documents in the late 80's. The course does offer daily fee golf; but, it is around $105 to 125 with no twilight rates.
I would not consider the last two courses muni's; but, at least with the Balsams, one can play it for reasonable rates.
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golfnut - Au contraire on The Orchards!!
My friend and I live on opposite ends of Mass. and meet to play courses one or the other want to play around New England. We called about ten days ahead and got an 11AM tee time. We were paired with a retired member who was also a Ross nut, which made our day even more enjoyable.
We moved around fairly quickly as the tee times were not close to being filled.
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Since I have not seen it mentioned yet, I will add the
Wilmington Island Club in Savannah. A good routing on a nice piece of property. The day we played, we almost had the course to ourselves--sad because not only was it a nice course, but a great value as well.
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It's probably not one of the best, but there's always Delray Municipal in Delray Beach, FL. No land movement to speak of and a couple holes must have been altered at some point, but it's inexpensive and definitely a Ross course.
Sadly, walking is forbidden except early in the morning off the back nine or late in the day. And you can only walk 9 holes. Last year, I was paired with a fellow in a cart and by the 2nd hole, it was apparent we were facing a 5 hour round. I took my bag off the cart and started to walk. I played 2 more holes until a ranger stopped me and ordered me back into the cart even though my group was waiting on every shot. Arguing was futile and further arguing would have gotten me thrown off the course.
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The list doesn't include resort courses such as Biltmore, Linville, #2, French Lick, etc.
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I'll second Sagamore. Resort course I guess. Very strong, very beautiful. Special place in my heart. It's where I was introduced to this grand game.
I've said this before, but it bears repeating. A great 9 holer is Rip Van Winkle Country Club in Palenville, NY (the Catskills). $17.00, very low key. Outstanding features. Ground game abounds.
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Shennecossett is a great Ross Muni. Maybe someone with more knowledge of Ross can correct me, but I believe Shennecosset is Ross's truest links course. It is built right on long island sound with a great open feel to it with constant winds blowing off the sound. After the land exchange they allowed the native roughs to grow back up only to be cut back down a few years later due to slow play being a muni. The maintence crew does a great job considering the amount of play and union restrictions placed on them by the town. It is generaly kept very firm, with the exception of 1 or 2 holes which stay wet in the spring. It is one of my favorite public tracks in the new england area. My father tells me it was really something special when it was private before the town took it over in the 60's. I would have loved to have seen it then.
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Nice article about shenny
http://www.golfnetnewengland.com/pastarticles/6_00ft_one_magnificent_muni.asp
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Shennecossett is a good track, I've played it once. THe new holes (by Mungeam) are actually pretty good. here is a recent whitten review:
http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/critic/index.ssf?/courses/critic/shennecossett.html