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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Mike Sweeney on December 11, 2007, 05:21:30 AM

Title: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Mike Sweeney on December 11, 2007, 05:21:30 AM
Overview - In an area and a state filled with housing development courses where the houses take priority, it was a real treat to play Calusa Pine GC in Naples, Florida. Hurdzan and Fry were the architects and I thought they did an outstanding job on a piece of property that has some very nice elevation change. As H&F say on their website, “The landforms are so soft, and flowing that they blend in well enough to appear natural and unique.  Combined with extensive native plant vegetation it is difficult to imagine the golf course was built, instead of simply laid out on this superb piece of land.” Well there clearly was a bunch of shaping, but it is Florida and it was very well done. No camera this trip, but the Google routing is below.

Off the tee - The course is an extremely fair but tough course. There are a number of options off the tees, but you do need to put your ball in the right spot. Water off the tee comes into play, but it is obvious in all places except for the fourth hole. Some holes are wide and some holes are narrower (not narrow) off the tee. There are 4 sets of tees and in a very good idea, we played a combination set that is rated, and effectively provides a fifth set. There is plenty of length or shortness for all. The tees have a variety of locations so day to day holes will change. Visually off the tee, there are many mental challenges off the tee, but when you get out on the fairway, it is much bigger than it looked.

Greens – Hitting into the greens was a real challenge and required precise iron shots. There was clearly some Pinehurst #2 inspiration where most of the greens were raised and even if you hit the green, it would sometimes roll off. However, there was no unfairness to it, just toughness and I never saw a shot all day where there was a feeling of unfairness. There were no huge turtles in any greens, but all were very interesting to putt and the caddies were very helpful on reads to the first time player. There were many collection areas for chipping and bumping. The conditioning of the greens and the entire course was a case study in near perfect Florida “maintenance meld.”

Routing – Great variety of holes and wind conditions, short fours and fives, very nice variety on the threes, never came close to feeling that you already played that hole which is often the case in Florida. Some towering shots on some tees, that again you do not expect in Florida. Favorite holes included 4. 8. 9, 16 and 18. There may not be any “All World” holes out there, but there was a bunch of very good to great ones.

(http://www.watervilleresearch.com/images/calusa)

Off the course – It has all the amenities of what you would expect in a high end golf only private club serving Naples, Florida. Great food, staff, cabins, locker room and showers…….  It is “formal golf”, basically walking only, with maybe a few carts and/or bag carriers late in the day.  The developer is a Cancer Survivor and there was a magazine article on the wall which expressed that his passion for building the course was at least partially driven by his fight against cancer. Certainly some analogies to Mike Strantz at MPCC can be drawn, however the owner is past the important 5 year mark of being cancer-free.

I really have not played much in the Southeast/Palm Beach area of Florida, but I would be surprised if Calusa was not a Top 5 course in the state? Sitting at #58 on the Golf Magazine US list, I am surprised that there is not more talk here as H&F do seem to have some fans here.

Other courses – Took a quick tour of West Bay Club where my friend owns a house. Sounds like a typical Pete Dye Florida housing course. The holes I saw 18 and 9 looked extremely penal but I was assured that there were some more open and fun holes too. Saw Olde Corkscrew the public Nicklaus course in the area, and was told and it looked like a very fun course with some wild greens.

PS. Not sure if it is the bottom of the market, but if you want to buy a condo or a house in Naples, there are plenty of choices in Naples!
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: cary lichtenstein on December 11, 2007, 06:44:24 AM
Mike:

Good analysis,a nd yes you are correct, it is one of the top courses in Florida that I have played. Considering that it was a marsh to begin with, that makes the architectural effort outstanding.

Cary
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: John Mayhugh on December 11, 2007, 06:45:57 AM
I got to play at Calusa just before they closed for summer last year and really enjoyed it.  It's not your typical south Florida course that's for sure.  It is a very natural looking routing and Mike's right when he says there is more room off the tee than first appears.  

Here are a few pictures.  I have several more, but waited too late to label them after my trip so I'll try to get that taken care of soon.

Tee shot on #1.  A gentle dogleg left.  Good starting hole.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/other%20courses/calusa%20pines/cp1tee.jpg)

Approach shot on 1.  Tough approach shot if you're not in the right side of the fairway.  Easy to go over the green here.

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/other%20courses/calusa%20pines/cp1fwy.jpg)

Par 3 third hole.  Green seems really small with all that sand.  We had front left hole location.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/other%20courses/calusa%20pines/cp3tee.jpg)

This is just in the right rough on #9.  The green is 10 or 15 yards right of the bunker in line with the right edge of the clubhouse.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/other%20courses/calusa%20pines/cp9fwy.jpg)

Par 3 fifteenth.  Long is a disaster.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/other%20courses/calusa%20pines/cp15tee.jpg)

Approach on #16 from the right rough.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/other%20courses/calusa%20pines/cp16r.jpg)

From the fairway on the 18th.  
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/other%20courses/calusa%20pines/cp18fwy.jpg)

The 18th green.  This was my favorite hole. The green is wide but not very deep.  The bunkering is very effective.
 (http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s196/jmayhugh/other%20courses/calusa%20pines/cp18gr.jpg)

My photos don't really do the course justice.  We actually rode when I played so my photo taking was limited to where my shots ended up.  Not always the best vantage point.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Donal Breasail on December 11, 2007, 07:31:19 AM
I LOVE THIS GOLF COURSE.The amount of elevation change on the site is amazing for this area.I must say it also has one of the best practise facilities i have seen anywhere.Great pictures john.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Michael Dugger on December 11, 2007, 11:28:29 AM
I've been curious about this course for a while now, it looks like one of Hurdzan/Fry's best.  

Good to see
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Bob Barriger on December 11, 2007, 12:11:04 PM
Jack, played there last Wednesday with the HP. From our conversations, I doubt a single unaccompanied would be allowed.  But all you can do is try. HP is Mike Balliett who was an Asst. Pro there when they opened, went to West Bay and now is back at Calusa.  There busy season continues into early April and from the middle of January on, outside play is extremely limited.  Everything said in the earlier posts is correct, it probably is one of Hurdzan/Frye's best and easily one of the top courses in Florida
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Jonathan McCord on December 11, 2007, 12:15:59 PM
Is Eden Foster not the Head Pro at Calusa anymore?  I thought he was at Calusa in the Winter, and at Maidstone during the Summer months.  Is this no longer the case?  
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Bob Barriger on December 11, 2007, 12:19:36 PM
Eden is still there as Director of Golf, your locations for his summer and winter are still correct. He had a camera crew out there last Wed for some articles he is doing on one of the magazines he represents.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Tiger_Bernhardt on December 11, 2007, 12:46:02 PM
Mike did you have breakfast with Jim Jones? And did you drink the cool aid after the round or at the airport? Yes I think it is the best in Naples area but do not think it is top 5 in Florida.
Seminole, Mountain Lake, TPC, World Woods, Jupiter Hills, The Consession, Black Diamond and Lake Nona off the top of my head ride a bit higher in the saddle than the lovely upscale Calusa Pines. I believe the new Coore and Crenshaw will trump it, so to speak, shortly. Hidden Creek in Gulf Breeze is a better design but few see it and conditioning is an issue. So is Shalimar Pointe 15 minutes down the road with the same issues. Toss in one more and it falls from the top 10. I think Bill McBride would vote for Pensacola CC. Many will still give Arnie's course in Orlando a vote over it as well. Then there is where Tiger lives.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Mike Sweeney on December 11, 2007, 01:57:56 PM

Seminole, Mountain Lake, TPC, World Woods, Jupiter Hills, The Consession, Black Diamond and Lake Nona

To the Man of Purple and Gold,

Of the ones I know, it is a good neighborhood. I may have been blinded by all the For Sale signs in Naples, but I have to say I agree with Bobby Ginn when he talks about the Baby Boomer demographics in the Southeast:

http://www.executivegolfermagazine.com/articles/bobbyginn.html

Eventually people will move into the houses they bought on Spec, or the next guy will.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Tom_Doak on December 11, 2007, 02:00:06 PM
Mike:

I have not played the course, but thank you for including the aerial photo.

Looking at the aerial, I am surprised the 18th hole is so well liked, with water on the outside of the dogleg and the hole playing around the driving range.  I guess the comments are really more about the earthmoving and shaping (compared to elsewhere in Florida) than about how the holes fit.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Mike Sweeney on December 11, 2007, 02:06:33 PM
Mike:

I have not played the course, but thank you for including the aerial photo.

Looking at the aerial, I am surprised the 18th hole is so well liked, with water on the outside of the dogleg and the hole playing around the driving range.  I guess the comments are really more about the earthmoving and shaping (compared to elsewhere in Florida) than about how the holes fit.

We were on those split tees, so I don't remember if we were 1 or 2 tees up on 18. It was a 280 carry over the bunker on the corner from our tee. I did not even remember any water on 18 until you said it. You would have to really hit one to get there and at that point it would be a pretty bad shot right.

PS. 18 is a short Par 5, playing around 535 for us.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: james soper on December 11, 2007, 03:54:26 PM
Yes I think it is the best in Naples area but do not think it is top 5 in Florida.
Seminole, Mountain Lake, TPC, World Woods, Jupiter Hills, The Consession, Black Diamond and Lake Nona off the top of my head ride a bit higher in the saddle than the lovely upscale Calusa Pines.


you can add into that mix indian creek, pine tree, and old memorial.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Michael Ryan on December 11, 2007, 04:47:12 PM
In regards to 18, yes there is water on the outside of the dogleg, but in my two trips there I got the sense that if someone plays the proper tees, the water isn't in play.  The strategy is to place a drive as close to the bunkers on the left to give yourself a chance to get home.  Only a pushed drive from the wrong set of tees could end up in the water.  The driving range is adjacent to the hole on the left, but the trees and brush provide a very good buffer.  The only reason I could tell there was a driving range on the other side of the trees was that I could hear Rocco Mediate holding court on the back of the range while practicing.  Don't think much can muffle that noise, just kidding.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: John Mayhugh on December 11, 2007, 05:09:53 PM
Mike:

I have not played the course, but thank you for including the aerial photo.

Looking at the aerial, I am surprised the 18th hole is so well liked, with water on the outside of the dogleg and the hole playing around the driving range.  I guess the comments are really more about the earthmoving and shaping (compared to elsewhere in Florida) than about how the holes fit.
This aerial is another great example of how different things can look from the ground.  I played three rounds at CP and never noticed either the range left or water right on #18.  That's saying something since I don't drive the ball very accurately and usually notice all the trouble.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Kris Spence on December 11, 2007, 06:31:45 PM
A neat story on Calusa Pines.  Back when CP was developed, I  provided consulting services for the construction team Course Doctors (Jeff Karsner) and the owner on material selection, construction details, quality control, budget management etc.  It was a great gig during the winter.

Anyway, the original budget called for 275,000 sf of sand bunker construction for the entire project.  Dana Fry painted out the first bunker to be constructed, the one you see that touches holes 3,4,5 which measured somewhere near 400,000 + sf.  I got a kick out of seeing the Managers face when we submitted the first billing.  I dont remember the final total but it was well over a million feet I think of sand.  

I havent been back since the course was opened for play but have heard many good things  about it.  Jeff Karsner and his partner at the time Steve Coe contributed heavily to the design of CP.  The rest was Dana and the owner Gary Chinsoff.  Hurdzan visited briefly on one occasion after it had been grassed if I remember correctly.
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: mark chalfant on December 11, 2007, 06:48:23 PM
Mike
Thanks for the excellent report. For those you spoke with, was there a consesus that Calusa Pines compares favorably with Naples National in terms of inspiring golf design  ?
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Anthony_Nysse on December 11, 2007, 07:18:42 PM
Kris,
  COngrads on your work at Cape Fear and it being reconized by Golf Digest. I heard alot about it duringmy time at Long Cove.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
Title: Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Tommy Williamsen on December 11, 2007, 08:31:47 PM
I played both Naples National and Calusa Pines.  I thought both were good but Calusa is wonderful.  The elevation changes and the way the course weaves it way around the property are terrific.  There is one short par four uphill that I really liked.  I can't remember what hoe it was though.  My memory for holes isn't what it used to be.
Thanks for the pictures.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 06, 2008, 04:32:19 PM
Thought I would as to this thread my favorite picture as I caddy here.  ;)

This picture is from the 16th Tee-Box looking over to 18th green/clubhouse.

Would be happy to answer any questions anyone has as well.

John you got some great shots above, however, what you have down as 15+16 is really 16+17 fyi.

Right now the course is under major water restrictions and is browning out but I took these earlier this year right as the fescue peaked pink/purple.

Edit - Not sure how to post the pictures better as John did above let me know if there is a way.

Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Mike Sweeney on February 06, 2008, 06:02:29 PM
John you got some great shots above, however, what you have down as 15+16 is really 17+18 fyi.



Just curious if anyone can see John's pics? I now can't see them in MS or Foxfire. However my routing is there.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: John Mayhugh on February 06, 2008, 06:05:23 PM
I'll have to take Patrick's word on the hole numbering.  He's spent a lot more time there than I had.

Mike, my pics show up OK viewing the site on Firefox.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 06, 2008, 06:35:16 PM
No big deal John I couldn't remember the numbers myself after the first time!

How did you post the pics within your post and not attach them at the bottom?
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: John Mayhugh on February 06, 2008, 06:42:57 PM
No big deal John I couldn't remember the numbers myself after the first time!

How did you post the pics within your post and not attach them at the bottom?
I just clicked on the photobucket image links and pasted those in the appropriate places.  Took me a while to figure out how to post pics.  It sounds like the new version of the board may be a bit more photo posting friendly.

Feel free to message me if you have any specific questions I can help with.

I'm sure we would all love to see more Calusa pics.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 06, 2008, 07:37:57 PM
Ok lets try it now:

#1 Par-4 Approach. This often will play as the toughest hole on the course. Green Falls away back left and front right.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0184.jpg)

#2 Par-5 Approach. Plays uphill and has a nasty front-right false front. Not uncommon to see guys putt off the green if the pin is front-right.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0186.jpg)

#9 Par-4 Green. Another very tough hole. Rocco Mediate likes to play this hole from the 16th tee (where I snapped this picture) which makes it a 500 yard par-4. Water runs through the fairway there which is hittable down wind from the member tees.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0201.jpg)

#16 Par-3 Tee. Awesome golf hole. Thats the 3rd tree they've had on the right side. The 2nd was the best and was much bigger but Hurricane Wilma had other plans. The club almost had to use a helicopter to put the new one in. (Quote was $25,000) Ultimately used a large crane.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0202.jpg)

View from 16-tee. This is my favorite pic which is posted above. And also a more panoramic one below. 50 ft of elevation from this spot. They added the American flag next to the clubhouse this year which I really like. Nice time of day to be coming in.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0198.jpg)

Par-3 16 down left, Par-5 18 middle, Par-4 9 right
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0199.jpg)

16th Green from 18 Fariway. Shows a little of the elevation they built here. Also can see how the green slopes front to back which causes a lot of people to hit over. (If I'm not caddying for them anyway :)) The top right of the 2nd pic is where I took the previous pics (16 tee).

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0203.jpg)


(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0208.jpg)

18 Par-5 Approach. Rounding the corner on 18 fairway.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0211.jpg)

18 Par-5 Approach/Green/Clubhouse. Great picture of the clubhouse which sits on about 20 feet of fill. Great finishing hole which Gary wanted designed to be an easy par-5 so everyone would leave with a smile. Helps us caddies so I can't complain.  ;)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0218.jpg)
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: james soper on February 06, 2008, 09:02:25 PM
patrick. thanks for the great photos. had the opportunity to speak to dr. hurzdan when calusa was just completed. he was really excited and proud with the end result. looks like it really grew in well. knowing how flat that area is, it appears alot of dirt had to be moved to form those ridges. love the fact that they have assembled a first class caddie program. would like to get your thoughts on naples national, hideout, and old colllier. jim
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 06, 2008, 09:48:14 PM
No problem Jim happy to share them.

Some of the numbers:

$1,000,000+ dollars in dynamite to make the lakes (25 ft. deep) which they then used the rock for the big fills.

2,000,000+ cubic yards of dirt/fill was moved The largest fill which is about half that comes into play on 8 holes has an elevation 59 feet just above the 12th tee box. It's the highest point in South FL supposedly. The clubhouse sits on about 500,000 of it and the rest is used all over the course with another big hill which 5 green sits on.

I just caddied for Dana Fry last week (as well as a month ago) and he is a great guy. Talked about the design and how he started in the business on a bull-dozer moving land in the '80s for Fazio. Fun to see him get beat up by his own design too. Also he talked about some of their current projects which are pretty cool and almost all international.

I have not been to Old Collier. Most people enjoy it and put it in the top 5 in Naples. However I have caddied for a number of members who were going to join there only to be told to check out Calusa first and never ended up going back.

Naples National is another Hurdzen/Fry design that is a VERY good golf course. Also a top 5 Naples track and once a top 10 in the state IIRC. I like the layout and there are some good holes but its nothing compared to Calusa. Basically its a nice upscale Florida course with H/F touches such as unique tee-boxes on top of rocks and lots of waste bunkers. Nice track but not impressive. I've heard they have a new under 50 year-old membership fee of $35,000 which is very good deal for the course/club I think.

The Hideout is another good track in Naples. I had a lot of fun last year playing it and I think I really enjoyed 14 or 15 of the holes with a few duds. They have 6 holes on the other side of the driveway (12-18) that they call "the woodshed" which were the best imo. Very golf only, no frills club (the men's locker-room is about the size of 2 of the  locker-room showers at Calusa) and it also has a younger membership in Naples. If I were a young-businessman in Naples it would be a tough choice between here and National. Larry Bird was one of the founding guys of this club.

All that being said Calusa Pines really does blow the other 3 out of the water. I caddied for Stone Phillps of Dateline fame two weeks ago (he flew in from the Michael Jordan's Celebrity Tournament in the Bahamas no less) and he absolutley loved Calusa. Said it was definitely in his top 5 right behind Shinnecock and that it was better than Seminole and was easily the best in FL. I've heard that from too many people to count. Obviously I have a bias but thats just what I hear out there.

Needless to say its a great place to work for a college student and as I like to say a lot of people like my office.   ;)
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 07, 2008, 05:14:02 PM
Couple more pics I found:

#8 Par-4. First experience of the round of the largest fill/elevation change. A short 300-yard par-4, #8 was amazingly the first hole in one at Calusa. A very risk-reward hole, the green complex makes up for the short distance
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/BonitaMarch2006011.jpg)

#8 Approach.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/BonitaMarch2006014.jpg)
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: james soper on February 07, 2008, 05:15:40 PM
patrick, thanks for your thoughts. that number (35k) for naples national membership sounds a bit off. hideout starts at around 85k and i'm pretty sure naples national would be higher. could be that said membership has to be converted when the player turns 50, with a huge payout due at conversion. regardless, a very nice place to play day in and out. have you had an opportunity to play hole in the wall, a shortish dick wilson track.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 07, 2008, 05:23:52 PM
Yea I was shocked too when I heard it but I think you are right that there is a conversion charge once they hit 50. Also I am pretty sure Hideout has dropped as well and is around 40k (at least for a young-business man), perhaps 80-85k is for a regular membership. I'll try and find those two out again if I get a chance. Both clubs are looking for growth and particularly younger growth though.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Mike Sweeney on February 07, 2008, 05:34:25 PM
Couple more pics I found:

#8 Par-4. First experience of the round of the largest fill/elevation change. A short 300-yard par-4, #8 was amazingly the first hole in one at Calusa. A very risk-reward hole, the green complex makes up for the short distance

Patrick,

I really like this hole, but I think it would be better if they removed that front bunker. Visually is is tough to go for it off the tee. We had one player in our group leave it on that grass tongue but it was a perfect shot. How many people go for it in a normal day?
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: John Mayhugh on February 07, 2008, 05:44:23 PM
The eight was Calusa's first hole in one?  Nice pics and some interesting trivia there. 
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 07, 2008, 05:47:22 PM
Couple more pics I found:

#8 Par-4. First experience of the round of the largest fill/elevation change. A short 300-yard par-4, #8 was amazingly the first hole in one at Calusa. A very risk-reward hole, the green complex makes up for the short distance

Patrick,

I really like this hole, but I think it would be better if they removed that front bunker. Visually is is tough to go for it off the tee. We had one player in our group leave it on that grass tongue but it was a perfect shot. How many people go for it in a normal day?

Not exactly sure which bunker you are referring to:  the waste bunker that runs the entire left side of the hole to the front of the green or the small pot bunker in the fairway. Assuming you mean the waste bunker. Funny you should ask about going for it. In the winter months we're open (Oct-Mar) the normal wind is about 10-20 mph into your face (N>S) on #8 tee. The past 2 days for whatever reason have been down wind 10-20 which is what we get in the late Spring and which I like to call the "fun wind". Because it is usually into the wind it makes going for it moot for even the better than average driver. (However many still swing out of their shoes anyway). I would say 1 guy in every 3 foursomes has a legitimate shot (normally can carry 290+) at it and probably 1 in 4 of those make it. Most end up in the bunker you mentioned or over the green because it is so small. There are more than a few guys who love playing it from that front waste bunker though and actually try and hit it there.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 07, 2008, 05:51:52 PM
The eight was Calusa's first hole in one?  Nice pics and some interesting trivia there. 

Yea amazing. Pin was front right and he ran it up the ridge there and it rolled back down and in. I caddied for him a couple weeks after it happened and have many times in the past few years. He likes to say on the tee, "Did you hear some member had a hole-in-one here?..." Then he'll hit and say, "...Yea it was me." Pretty funny story and guy. He also asks "Odds it happens again?" I always say, "Slim to nil."
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: John Kirk on February 08, 2008, 08:41:06 PM

#16 Par-3 Tee. Awesome golf hole. Thats the 3rd tree they've had on the right side. The 2nd was the best and was much bigger but Hurricane Wilma had other plans. The club almost had to use a helicopter to put the new one in. (Quote was $25,000) Ultimately used a large crane.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0202.jpg)


Patrick,

Let me ask you a couple questions about this hole.  I see you like this hole a great deal.  Why do you feel that way?  It looks from the picture that it may be a short hole, perhaps 8-iron or even pitching wedge, to a very small green.  It looks like there's water everywhere except short left.  Also, the green does not appear to have much internal contour (little ripples and ridges).

I enjoy the look of the course, and I appreciate the pictures very much.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Mike Sweeney on February 09, 2008, 06:57:33 AM
John,

Here is a better look from the tee. Like many of the views at CP, it often looks tougher than it really is. Clearly this is a tough hole, but there is room. I can't really remember any greens at CP that were All World but I don't remember any that were not pretty good.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_0199.jpg)

I was told yesterday by my friend that there is a Paulian maintenance meld at CP right now due to the Florida water restrictions and that the course has a touch of brown in it.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 09, 2008, 07:34:36 AM
Yes you are correct Mike they are under major water restrictions. I've heard different numbers but I think they are down to using 100,000 gallons a day which is somewhere between 1/5 and 1/10 of what they usually use. The greens are still perfect and the fairways are better than I thought they would be but most of the rest is browned out. (The driving range is completely brown now).

John to answer your questions, 16 is a great golf hole but its not even my favorite at Calusa. I love the par-4 15th (Don't ask why I don't have a picture yet). In any case 16 is a great redan (I think it qualifies but I could be corrected) although you can't really see it from the picture. The green has some very big front-to-back slope on all but the very front left corner. (See the other picture I posted from the opposite side of the green) If you draw a line between where the bunker on the left comes in the farthest and the top left corner of the bunker on the right that is where the ridge is which slopes hard to the back from there. It slopes so hard that I never give more yardage than to the middle of the green because anything that hits on or over that ridge runs all the way to the back of the green often times into the fringe and rough. Also it usually plays a 150-yard shot unless the wind is really blowing into you. (Usually its quartering into you left-right). Also the green is bigger than it looks one of the biggest C.P. has.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: John Kirk on February 09, 2008, 12:17:26 PM
Mike, although the lighting is not ideal, I can see it's quite handsome from the tee.

Interesting the green slopes to the back left.  Since I draw the ball generally, a gentle left to right quartering wind doesn't bother me much.  However, when the wind blows, this must be a scary shot, especially if you've got a good round going.

The older I get, the better a brown course sounds.  I'm guessing there are a lot of happy golfers walking off Calusa Pines these days, surprised by the joy that the dry playing conditions provide.  Are you getting a lot of roll out there?  Wow.

Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 09, 2008, 03:34:49 PM
Mike, although the lighting is not ideal, I can see it's quite handsome from the tee.

Interesting the green slopes to the back left.  Since I draw the ball generally, a gentle left to right quartering wind doesn't bother me much.  However, when the wind blows, this must be a scary shot, especially if you've got a good round going.

The older I get, the better a brown course sounds.  I'm guessing there are a lot of happy golfers walking off Calusa Pines these days, surprised by the joy that the dry playing conditions provide.  Are you getting a lot of roll out there?  Wow.



Yea a lot of people are liking the dry and firm course, likening it too what it was like the first few years the course was open when it was firm and tight. Heard that they are going to take out the tif-sport fringes and replace with tif-eagle which is what the greens are. Should enhance the penal false fronts that already drive people nuts and especially more so if it stays dry in future years.
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on February 28, 2008, 05:51:15 PM
Not sure if I should start a new thread or not but we are going to have a fun charity pro-am tournament next month with Arnie. Hope I can be in the group with J.B. to see where his drives end up.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2008/feb/17/arnold-palmer-play-inaugural-calusa-pines-pro-am-c/
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Jim Nugent on February 28, 2008, 10:19:35 PM
Patrick, I'm curious to hear if J.B. plays as slowly in the pro-am as he does in PGA events. 
Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on March 06, 2008, 11:02:53 AM
More pictures! Got to play with my dad and his two business partners and was able to snap up some more pictures. I hope to get all the ones I am missing next time I go out.

#3 - Par 3. We call this the shortest Par 5 in FL. If you miss the green it is an extremely tough chip up from either side and you often have guys chip it short then over, then over again etc. Not to mention you can't land anywhere middle right or short left on the green.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1126.jpg)

#8  - Par 4. Another good shot of a hole you've already seen. Again this is the golfer's first real view of the large hill/mountain they built up that 7 holes touch.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1128.jpg)

A good shot of #16 from the 9th tee.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1139.jpg)

#9 - Par 4. A great finishing hole for this nine. See a lot of bogeys here and very few birdies. The water  cuts across the fairway which you can't see (in between the bushes at the end of the fairway in the distance and the barely visible pine straw right above which is on the other side) in this pic about 300 off the tee so big hitters need to switch to 3-wood especially if its down wind.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1141.jpg)

#11 - Par 3. Another great Par 3 which can be diabolical. Lot of guys pull it left into the water or over compensate right into the hill. It usually rolls down toward the hole but its a nasty quick green right to left and front to back after a front/middle ridge. Very tough up and down from anywhere and easily three putted.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1145.jpg)

#12 - Par 4. Very easy to argue the hardest hole on the course even though you usually get it down wind. Members tee here is just under the highest point in South FL at 59 feet! Although the fairway is pretty large it doesn't look as such from the high tee box which can help cause an errant tee shot. Tough green complex with the front left quadrant being a false front as well as middle right.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1151.jpg)

A look down at the fairway from the highest point.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1158.jpg)

And a look back up.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1160.jpg)

#15 - Par 4. My favorite hole on the course. Just love how it is laid out. Big wide fairway with a very tough tight green sloping hard back to front in a stadium setting.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1161.jpg)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1163.jpg)

#15 - Approach

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1174.jpg)

Note the oak tree at the left of the picture just left of the green (casting the shadow on the green). That was level ground when they started. This shot looks at 15, over #8 and to the highest point above where the 12th tee box is where the tallest trees are on the far right. (Tee box is on the other side.)

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1171.jpg)

A couple of shots from the Adirondack chairs on the patio with a drink in your hand 20 minutes before sunset, not a bad place to be at the end of the day.

(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1201.jpg)

Close up of 16.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/NBA_DIE-HARD/Calusa%20Pines/IMG_1210.jpg)

Title: Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
Post by: Patrick Hodgdon on March 27, 2008, 05:32:07 PM
We had our first ever charity/pro-am for cancer tournament headlined by Arnie Palmer. J.B. Holmes ended up not playing but I did get to be in Palmer's group for the last nine holes which was a treat. He's definitely the world class guy that everyone says he is and everybody had a lot of fun. Other pros who participated were Paul Azinger, Jason Gore, Anthony Kim, Frank Licklieter, Johnnie Miller, Peter Jacobsen and Rocco Mediate.