Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: wsmorrison on November 07, 2007, 04:18:43 PM
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Which of today's championship quality courses (defined for this purpose as courses where majors are or can be played on them) have short par 3s? Do they still have a place on championship golf courses? How many have been lost to the quest for added length? Why are only a few being built today and none on a championship quality course?
What architectural features (so as to disregard green firmness and wind) of short par 3s might keep them difficult for all classes of players?
For the architects in our group, how would you design a short par 3 for a championship caliber course?
Only a few come to mind:
Merion East 13th (130 yards)
Pebble Beach 7th (107 yards)
Royal Troon 8th (126 yards)
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When I think about how to protect par on a very short par 3, I think of Mountain Lake's (Raynor) par 3 #9. It is short, 135 max I think, with a large green close up against a pond. The key to whatever difficulty it has is the "thumbprint" in the middle of it. I wish I had a photo of the depression / thumbprint; here's an overall of the hole from Mike Sweeney's "In My Opinion" article:
(http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/ML9tee.jpg)
The depression is pretty deep, maybe a 12" overall elevation change, and it's a semi-circle. When the hole is located right by the thumbprint, it can be very difficult to three putt! I learned the hard way that putts across and along the slope can get away from the player quickly and disastrously.
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Wayne:
The ones you've cited, from what I know of them, seem to have the following characteristics:
Small-to-very-small greens;
Well-trapped;
Some severity of terrain/surrounds (aside of the traps) that makes for a difficult lie/position for the second shot in order to get an up-and-in for par.
Of the three you mentioned, I know the least about Merion's. Does it fit the bill of the above description?
One of the best-looking ones I've seen here on GCA is the "2 or 20" hole at.....Engineers? Somewhere on the East Coast, I think. It looks frightening.
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Phil,
I'd say you nailed it. It is a pretty small green with interplays of slopes; beautifully bunkered around three portions of the green and a steep slope on the right. The evolutionary sand splash from the front bunker created quite a kicker off the back side of the bunker. I'll try to find out what the average score was for the US Amateur. I presume it was under par. I don't think there's anything wrong with that on a championship course. When I read of the significant changes to Bethpage Black and noticed they were on holes that played under par, I do not understand the point of making such changes. So what if they play under par? Given the finishing five at Merion, you tend to feel the pressure to score here and that isn't a sure thing by any means.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2162/1908806704_e06eaf267e_o.jpg)
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Wayne -
As a designer I think it would be interesting to design a new "short" hole for a Championship caliber course. As we know the standard (not all but most) Short holes are plateaued greens with deep bunkers surrounding most of the green. Todays players are so good with bunker play and accurate at short range that bunkers may be obsolete. Raynor and MacDonalds work really comes to mind because of the internal contours. If you can introduce wind in the scale of the 11th at Pacific Dunes and the short hole at the Sheep Ranch north of Bandon than you have something to work with. I have to admit, I like the 7th at Lawsoina, the Boxcar hole and the two plateau greens at Bedford 4 and 11. 4 is long but the premise of a fall-off green wherein there are not many bunkers there to save an inaccurate shot. So the combination of wind, steep plateau and a major internal contour, ala 10th at Chicago or the 6th at NGLA.
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Wayne,
At Sagebrush, we've built a really neat two-hole sequence.
The par-3 12th will play no more than about 125 yards max., slightly uphill. The par-4 13th will play about 315 yards, significantly downhill. Essentially, these consecutive holes are back-to-back par-3s for better players.
Imagine, too, total yardage for the course on the scorecard will probably measure almost 7,400 yards, including the BACK TEE measurements noted above, for 12 and 13!
So, I guess you can design a "championship length" course featuring a sub-135 yard hole.
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Which of today's championship quality courses (defined for this purpose as courses where majors are or can be played on them) have short par 3s? Do they still have a place on championship golf courses? How many have been lost to the quest for added length? Why are only a few being built today and none on a championship quality course?
What architectural features (so as to disregard green firmness and wind) of short par 3s might keep them difficult for all classes of players?
For the architects in our group, how would you design a short par 3 for a championship caliber course?
Only a few come to mind:
Merion East 13th (130 yards)
Pebble Beach 7th (107 yards)
Royal Troon 8th (126 yards)
Wayne:
Great Question. Not too many come to mind but Merion #13 and Pebble#7 are as good as it gets.
Best
Dave
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Wayne,
At Sagebrush, we've built a really neat two-hole sequence.
The par-3 12th will play no more than about 125 yards max., slightly uphill. The par-4 13th will play about 315 yards, significantly downhill. Essentially, these consecutive holes are back-to-back par-3s for better players.
Imagine, too, total yardage for the course on the scorecard will probably measure almost 7,400 yards, including the BACK TEE measurements noted above, for 12 and 13!
So, I guess you can design a "championship length" course featuring a sub-135 yard hole.
Jeff,
This is off topic but won't back-to-back holes like this slow down play?
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Wayne
JNagle raises an interesting point about bunkers. How do you think the holes you mentioned would change if, instead of the bunkers, they had mowed-grass depressions in the exact shape and size and depth and location of those bunkers?
Do you think this would do anything at all to help make those holes (or any new sub-135 yard Par 3s) 'better' championship tests?
Peter
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Wayne,
At Sagebrush, we've built a really neat two-hole sequence.
The par-3 12th will play no more than about 125 yards max., slightly uphill. The par-4 13th will play about 315 yards, significantly downhill. Essentially, these consecutive holes are back-to-back par-3s for better players.
Imagine, too, total yardage for the course on the scorecard will probably measure almost 7,400 yards, including the BACK TEE measurements noted above, for 12 and 13!
So, I guess you can design a "championship length" course featuring a sub-135 yard hole.
Jeff,
This is off topic but won't back-to-back holes like this slow down play?
Jeff, you take a break, I'll field this one...
No, it's in Canada....
;D
Glad I can help,
Joe
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Wayne
JNagle raises an interesting point about bunkers. How do you think the holes you mentioned would change if, instead of the bunkers, they had mowed-grass depressions in the exact shape and size and depth and location of those bunkers?
Do you think this would do anything at all to help make those holes (or any new sub-135 yard Par 3s) 'better' championship tests?
Peter
Peter,
I think Jim's concept of grassy hollows might just make recovery relatively harder for low handicappers and relatively easier for high handicappers.
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One modern stand out is the 11th at Cuscowilla. Cusco is certainly a championship course and at about 134 from the tips it's one heck of a 9 iron or wedge.
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I love the sub 135 yard par 3. It's the right length to make you think anything more than a par is giving shots away.
As for features riasing the green above the recovery area I would say is a positive. Integral chipping area which leads to more trouble, smaller & deeper bunkers making recovery more difficult would help. I'd sugggest H20 as a hazard on these holes is a negative as the recovery option is zero..
How much slope is in #13? When I walked the course during the US AM I thought to myself that other than the front bunkers there was not much challange since missing long was most likely not happeneing or offering much of a problem recovering.
Could other holes (11 @ Shinnecock or 10 at Pinehurst #2 )from an up tee still provide the challange in a championship environement your looking for? I would say #17 at Sand Hills fits the bill, but I think the middle tee's are still longer than that.
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Wayne -
Yes, this would be hard for high handicappers, but the question posed was in terms of a Championship caliber course. So, who cares about the duffers, me included ;)
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No sub 135 yd inland hole in North America rivals #9 at the Myopia Hunt Club. It is 9 yards narrow and 40 long, and surrounding by deep pit bunkers. H20 plays a less strategic, but more psychological role, with a beautiful natural pond fronting the hole.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/myopiahunt.html
This hole is way more severe than the others mentioned so far (with PV#10 ), and though it dispenses disproportional pain over reward, it is eminently fair. Myopia, while short and vulnerable to modern technology, is still very much a legitimate championship course in every sense.
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Could other holes (11 @ Shinnecock or 10 at Pinehurst #2 )from an up tee still provide the challange in a championship environement your looking for?
I would think that the 14th at The Honors would be an example that could provide the challenge from the up tee. It is a short hole to begin with, but it does not fit in the <135 yd category. From the middle tee it would play about 135 and like the other holes listed above would challenge all levels of player with its small, sloping green and surrounding bunkers/trouble areas.
As for the 13th at Merion I think the green itself provides plenty of challenge for the golfer. I would hate to have to stop a putt/chip close to the hole to save par with the undulations and green speeds that are found there.
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To elaborate on Grampa Joe's "EXCELLENT" point re Sagebrush being in Canada... the club is intended to be ultra-private, so there's no threat (at this point) for two consecutive holes as described to hold up play in this particular situation.
Good question though, Phil.
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Jeff,
You can always count on me for a creampuff set-up.
:)
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17th at Sawgrass
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This is a great topic, I love the short par 3. I think it's because it gives all players (good and bad) a potential chance for greatness, while the good short par 3's have a great deal of risk built in.
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This is a great topic, and I'll add a few thoughts about what makes the 13th at Merion East such a good hole for even the champion golfer. In 1971, Ray Floyd missed the green 7 consecutive rounds (practice and tournament), so it's not as much of a layup as one would think. The fact that the green is slightly blind adds to the difficulty of the shot.
Also, the hole is in perfect "context" to the rest of the course. (Some may simply call it routing, but I prefer context.) Unless you have Tiger Woods like mental strength, you really can't help but think this could be your last "easy" approach to a pin the rest of the round. I remember being 6 over at the 13th (which is really good for me) and then teeing it up on the 14th when the carnage started.
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Few of the holes mentioned so far are on championship courses, as defined by Wayne, and I think it's a fair criticism, given that most everyone views these holes as interesting and testing -- but increasingly rare on courses played for majors.
Wayne -- any descriptions on the size of Merion's green? Wider than deeper, or the other way around? Do the internal contours effectively create a smaller target area for certain pin placements?
One of the virtues, it seems, of both Pebble's 7th and Troon's Postage Stamp is that both have elevated tees, and (given that both usually play with the wind as a factor) club selection and the type of swing employed (I recall Tiger sort of hitting a half-wedge, knock-down shot here) would seem to be a matter of difficult judgement.
Absent a strong wind, is the shot to Merion's 13th largely one of precision? Or does the green allow for the sorts of shots you might see employed at PB's 7th or the Postage Stamp (half-shots, knock-downs, and the like)? It looks to be an ever-slightly uphill tee shot -- perhaps that adds a bit of uncertainty with the tee shot? It looks like a really fine hole.
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I have to admit, I like the 7th at Lawsoina, the Boxcar hole
The 7th at Lawsonia slightly exceeds Wayne's criteria -- it plays 146 from the white tees and 161 from the blues/tips. It doesn't quite fit the nature of some of the other par 3s described here, as the green surface (although deceptively so, a recurring feature of the Langford/Moreau designed/built course) is quite large, much larger than it appears from the tee. It also lacks any bunkers (although the original plans had one left of the green), but the penalty for missing the green is admittedly pretty severe.
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Phil -
What I like about the 7th at Lawsonia is the foundation of its design - a green with severe side slopes (3 sides) and elevated greatly above its surrounds with excellent internal contours. Add wind to the 7th hole, drop it under 140 yards and add to the internal contours and you have the makings of a great "Short" hole.
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I'll throw in Plainfield's 6th. Has all the features described above: You come to the hole, look at the distance, and think you have a breather. Til you look at the great menacing bunker in front, sheer drop off if you go over, steep slope on right side of green, and lots going on on the green.
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The 7th at Lawsonia is one of those holes in the Langford/Moreau canon that makes me and others wonder just how much Langford in particular had studied the works of Raynor and/or Macdonald. The boxcar hole at Lawsonia clearly has antecedents to the classic "Short" hole, with its target nature and the severe penalties for a miss.
In my wildest dreams, I think Lawsonia -- brought up to proper fast/firmness, native grasses grown high, green speeds esp. brought up to speed -- could host a major like the Women's Open or the public linx or something along those lines.
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I'll throw in Plainfield's 6th. Has all the features described above: You come to the hole, look at the distance, and think you have a breather. Til you look at the great menacing bunker in front, sheer drop off if you go over, steep slope on right side of green, and lots going on on the green.
Isn't the eleventh at Plainfield under 135?
How about the 8th at Maidstone?
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Lawsonia's 7th and ANGC's 12th have one important thing in common that I believe a Short could use rather than merely a small green. I think having a green that angles from short left to far right makes for a very difficult shot (for right handers) on a hole almost everyone is hitting a short iron or less at. Working the ball to the right with a 5 iron and doing it with a PW are two very different things.
Rather than simply making the green really small and surrounding it with sand, making it larger (though probably not so large as Lawsonia's 7th, probably more like ANGC's 12th) and creating a long narrow angled target could make a very interesting hole. Even if the penalty for misses isn't quite as larger as Lawsonia's 7th and ANGC's 12th.
The other thing they have in common is a somewhat elevated tee hitting into a depression with trees partially surrounding it, leading to some interesting swirling winds that make the shot dicey. Even if the shot was only 120-130 yards you are hitting it with a more lofted club where the effect of the wind is even larger relative to the length of the shot.
You don't need to make players get double bogeys, on such a short hole the good players are thinking birdie and the average players are thinking par, so all you need to do is make those difficult goals to achieve so that most players walk off the green feeling like they blew an easy chance to make up a stroke.
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7th at Barnbougle
(http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/Slag_Bandoon/DSCN0237.jpg)
"Little Devil"
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Isn't the 8th hole at Olympic around 135? Others can describe the hole far better than I can. As I recall, it's somewhat uphill, large bunkers protect the front, leaving a blind or semi-blind tee shot. Are there some tree issues as well?
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The 11th(?) at Applebrook is one of the best I have seen, and surely the best "modern" one. Tiny green, sitting on a hill, hit it or weep. I'd love to see the pros play something like that with money on the line.
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"Wayne -- any descriptions on the size of Merion's green? Wider than deeper, or the other way around? Do the internal contours effectively create a smaller target area for certain pin placements?"
The 13th at Merion East is small, approximately 3200sf. As can be seen in the drawing below, the green is about 19 yards deep and 20 yards wide. With the green firm, the slope off the fronting bunker tends to propel shots into the rear bunkers, making for a difficult recovery. However, almost all of the green space is pinnable with a number of interesting pin positions.
With small greens with interplays of slopes (I like that a lot better than a horseshoe or other unnatural-looking features) that extend to fall-offs and wrap behind bunkers there is a challenge to all golfers. The better players will try to attack pins on the peripheries and could get into trouble if they don't pull off a good shot. High handicappers will try for the center of the green (if they play smart) and their own variance in execution could get them into trouble. A safe play to the middle of greens, especially on short par 3s and approaches does not seem to be the decisions that many better players make.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2078/1918301070_73c6e09276.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2417/1918301178_fd52c179aa_o.jpg)