Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: astavrides on October 11, 2007, 03:51:25 PM
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Is The Ranch in San Jose any good? I thought I read on here that it wasn't (esp. for the money), but I couldnt find anything in the last year using the search feature.
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;D ;D ;D
Sorry AS, but I have to laugh. We've discussed THE RANCH many times in here... and well... people give me a hard time because I tend to like all golf courses, but that one I absolutely hate.
It is by far and away the worst course in the Bay Area: for the money, for one's sanity, for one's golfing soul, by any measure.
It is well and truly AWFUL. It is so severe, well... the numbers will tell you all you need to know. Go to ncga.org and look up the yardages, ratings, slopes. Don't trust their website, which is pure fabrication. The black tees they list simply do not exist.
All this being said, well... there are some nice views to be had from up atop the mountain on which this horrid course sits.
And the greens and fairways are generally in quite nice condition.
It's just one of those courses where one tends to lose a golf ball for every stroke of his handicap. If that doesn't bother you, nor does three figure prices, well then have at it.
TH
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Did Scott Burroughs ever accept the walking challenge at The Ranch?
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Did Scott Burroughs ever accept the walking challenge at The Ranch?
Yes; that's why he rarely posts any more - he's still recovering from the lung transplant.
;D
TH
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This must be the most maligned course on this website.
An old thread:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=17355;start=0
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Jason - thanks. Now AS can get more than he'll ever care to read about this monstrosity of a golf course. And reading that was a nice trip down memory lane.
Some updates and notes:
1. Aidan was as good as his word... I am looking at a large print of #12 The Ranch right now - he sent it to me and it hangs in my cube. Aidan remains a genius, and a good egg.
2. We went and did the three year re-rate this year, and to my astonishment, they HAD cut back the brush on many of the hillsides! So while the course does remain awful, it's not quite as stupid as before. One won't lose as many golf balls. Oh, one still will lose quite a few... just not on shots 5 yards off the fairways as it was before.
3. Due to this and some changes in the rating rules and methods, look for the stupidly silly slope numbers to go down a bit. They should be published pretty soon.
TH
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Actually, I highly recommend The Ranch as an educational experience. If you want to see to what lengths a developer will go to jam a golf course on land better suited for petons and climbing rope than golf, there it sits.
The golf course is so hideous - and this is not the fault of the Casey O'Callaghan - that it warrants a special trip solely for entertainment value. I strongly suggest an apres' golf detoxification program of tequila to help shake off any damage done to your psyche.
To get the full effect of this tragicomedy, it is important to play it in the late afternoon when the wind is howling 40 MPH. Play speeds up on the back nine because most groups either quit in disgust or simply run out of golf balls.
I've always held that my first round at NGLA changed forever what I thought was possible. The same can be said for The Ranch. ;D
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Great points, Gib! I've also said before that I actually consider Casey O. a genius for getting a golf course at all into that awful land. And I am dead serious on that point.
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Jason - thanks. Now AS can get more than he'll ever care to read about this monstrosity of a golf course. And reading that was a nice trip down memory lane.
Some updates and notes:
1. Aidan was as good as his word... I am looking at a large print of #12 The Ranch right now - he sent it to me and it hangs in my cube. Aidan remains a genius, and a good egg.
2. We went and did the three year re-rate this year, and to my astonishment, they HAD cut back the brush on many of the hillsides! So while the course does remain awful, it's not quite as stupid as before. One won't lose as many golf balls. Oh, one still will lose quite a few... just not on shots 5 yards off the fairways as it was before.
3. Due to this and some changes in the rating rules and methods, look for the stupidly silly slope numbers to go down a bit. They should be published pretty soon.
TH
I still need to go see this place.
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Well, as Gib says, it is worth seeing, for the education.
And if taken with the proper sense of humor and zero expectations, well... you could have fun.
Just please please please don't pay $100 to play this course unless that's what you tip bathroom attendants.
TH
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Huck,
I went to the site and took a look at the animated flyovers. With the exception of #11 and 18, the holes looked impossibly narrow. I'm guessing the course is pretty true to these animations in real life??
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Kalen:
You sadist, you made me go and look at those flyovers. I made it through three holes. If anything, those make it look WIDER than it really is.
TH
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71.3/147 from the blues. that's unique. thanks for the replies. I'll avoid that course.
By the way, Tom, I was expecting a little more from my $57 walking rate this past Sunday at Santa Teresa. My 1st time there. Nocal golf seems quite a bit more overpriced than LA and Ventura CO golf.
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Kalen:
You sadist, you made me go and look at those flyovers. I made it through three holes. If anything, those make it look WIDER than it really is.
TH
Huck,
Hey what are friends for other than to bring joy to each others life? ;D
If they really are more narrow in real life than they look on those flyovers then that looks like one hellavu kick-yer-arse kind of golf course.
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71.3/147 from the blues. that's unique. thanks for the replies. I'll avoid that course.
By the way, Tom, I was expecting a little more from my $57 walking rate this past Sunday at Santa Teresa. My 1st time there. Nocal golf seems quite a bit more overpriced than LA and Ventura CO golf.
You have to avoid golf in the south bay and penisula if you want good affordable golf. Head up to the East Bay and North Bay and you'll find better offerings at a cheaper price.
I can list a few if you like..
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AS: all of CA golf is way overpriced. But you might be right, our "basic" courses up here are more overpriced than those in LA or OC. Our CCFAD's are pretty crazy too, but then again you have places like Monarch Beach and Pelican Hill that make ours look like downright steals. So of course it's going to depend on the course, and it is tough to generalize. In any case, no way is Santa Teresa worth $57, as you saw. Such is golf life. But compared to others that are three figures - which are far too many in our area - it's not a bad deal.
Just curious as you may be the first non-local to play my home course:
a) did you get around in less than 6 hours? I'd be surprised if that was the case if you played on a weekend... and
b) was there anything you did like? I actually do like the course a lot more than I let on here, cost and horrid pace of play nothwithstanding. The greens are fabulous - lots of contour and damn good condition especially for how much play the course gets - and there are some very fun golf holes, particularly on the back nine. Whaddya think?
c) did you happen to get a look at any of the trophies in the trophy case? Notice any familiar names engraved? ;D
Kalen: you haven't gotten the picture by now that this IS a kick ye arse kinda course? I believe it is the poster course for such term.
TH
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Oh Huck, I give Casey maximum "dap" for managing what seems an engineering feat on the order of Lido.
That stated, I am surprised he did not insist on a *nom de plume* as the architect of record. Like Herman Schwartz, or Rees Jones . . . . yeah, that's the ticket!
The Ranch is a cautionary tale to every developer blinded by greed and the hallucination that even a terrible golf course will sell houses. I've got to disagree in part about your proclamation of The Ranch as the worst golf course in the Bay Area.
The original Blackhawk CC course still sits at the top of my pantheon of disasters, right beside Pasadera.
It still astounds me that more developers don't opt for a "Dublin Ranch" type design, because it makes more sense. That course is routed on poor land, but it is not as noticeable because there are so many par-3's.
If daddy comes home from work and wants to go play a few holes with his kids or wife at The Ranch, it requires 20 minutes a hole and a tourniquet to stop the bleeding from your ears.
Yet at Dublin Ranch, it is not ridiculously crowded and you can play a quick nine with the kids in about an hour and a half on a sane golf course.
Whitten tried to get some interest generated years ago in identifying the really fine "Executive Length" and "Par-3" courses in America for the panel, but could not get anybody to care.
Sad, really. I prodded him about it quite a bit and while he agreed we were missing the boat here, there is still a terrible bias against golf courses of less than par 70 and 6500 yards long.
It is this absurd perception that drives projects like The Ranch. Otherwise, that parcel of land might have made an interesting short course.
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And let us not forget that 6 mile cart ride between the 11th green and 12th tee . . . . . . we drove so far I thought we were lost and had to check the GPS to see if we were in Morgan Hill.
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Aw come on Gib, you ole story teller and exaggerater... it's not 6 miles from 11 green to 12 tee... it's only 1.3.
We measured it last time.
;)
Good call re Dublin Ranch, btw... and it's actually intriguing to think what a cool par 62 or so could have been made out of the land at The Ranch...
TH
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I thought of that clear back when I wrote this a couple years ago:
DUBLIN RANCH GOLF COURSE.
The idea of a so-called ““executive length”” golf course is an instant turn-off for many players; unfortunately they miss some unique layouts like Dublin Ranch Golf Course, the subject of this month’’s installment of our ““Road Trips for County Golfers”” series.
Located just two miles off highway 580 at the Fallon Road exit in Dublin, Robert Trent Jones, II senior architect Don Knott transformed an undulating parcel of land into a delightful and entertaining string of holes for players of every ability.
There is a tendency in this country to dismiss any golf course with a par of less than 70 with yardage under 6500 yards as ““too easy.”” Dublin Ranch, with a par of 63 and 4820 yards is a legitimate test of golf. Throw in a little wind and the average 15 handicapper will do well to break 80.
It reminds me of an English fellow I met in a pub many years ago. We were discussing the overall length of golf courses in England vs. the United States. He chuckled (with a hint of a sneer) ““Well, your courses may be longer than ours, but not certainly not better. In America, ‘‘big’’ is its own justification, isn’’t it?””
Ouch. One only has to look at that horrendous mess at ““The Ranch Golf Club”” in San Jose for an example of the stupidity of trying to jam a full sized layout on acreage better suited to a shorter course.
By contrast, Dublin Ranch flows with the land, taking full advantage of scenic views and natural greensites with an ingenious routing that includes a par-five on both sides of the 31-32-63 total par.
Each nine hole sequence more or less follows a clockwise circle, presenting a different wind direction from all points on the compass.
The strength of the golf course is in the eleven par-three holes. They vary in length from 143 to 224 yards, each completely unique. The shorter holes require pinpoint precision, the longer ones provide ample area to use the contours of the ground to run the ball to the hole.
Our favorite features on the course were part of an overall theme to encourage several different approach shot options with mounds, rolls, folds and kick-points. Depending on the pin placement and shifting wind directions, a 150 yard shot might require anything between a 9-iron and a 4-iron
The fringes of the green are kept closely mowed on one side or another, so short hitters, women and seniors have few forced carries to contend with.
Despite the awful weather of late, the conditions were outstanding with firm fairways, manicured nearly perfect. The putting surfaces are smooth and consistent. In truth, it is a public course with better overall agronomy than the vast majority of the private clubs.
Unless you show up on a weekend morning, play moves along at a brisk pace. A gentleman I played with tells me you can walk up most afternoons with little or no waiting. We played on a Sunday afternoon and got around the course in about three hours. Dublin Ranch opened a year ago and word of its quality has not spread much further than the locals.
Our favorite holes included the 7th, a drop-shot from a terraced tee box to a green nestled at the bottom of a natural depression. In the distance are rolling hills with towering Mt. Diablo as the centerpiece. To the left a lonely radar dish listening to the stars.
As Dublin Ranch is routed along a series of high ridges, there are expansive panoramas on nearly every hole. My only complaint was a series of garish tract houses on three holes crowding the fringes of my photos with the requisite tiny backyards, enclosed with ugly green iron fences.
We also liked the ninth hole, a par-4 that slides around a corner bunker to a firm green fronted by a steep ramp. The putting surface is divided into sections, altering the strategy of where to land the approach shot with every move of the pin.
Normally, long par-3's can be a slog with no personality. Knott did a superb job with the 224 yard 15th by constructing a sprawling putting surface with 40 yards in front to chase the ball onto the green. At Dublin Ranch, the holes that look difficult can be parred with nothing more than a decent swing and a little brains.
By contrast, for the overly aggressive, trouble lurks. The phrase ““deceptively easy”” is an apt description of the 17th - a 143 yard par-4 that looks to be little more than a long pitch. Yet the wind swirls, and the narrow and wide putting surface guarded front and left lures you towards a steep fall-off. The smart play is to the bailout area hidden on the right, that kicks the ball onto the green.
At Dublin Ranch you must look hard and think carefully.
The par-5 18th hole might be the most intricate, strategic and downright clever finishing hole in the Bay Area. At 521 yards, the fairway splits into two landing areas, divided by a grassy wall. The left side is an easier target and carry, but confronts players with a blind second shot over a bunker. Staying left also leaves a maddening uphill third over yawning bunkers with the green falling away.
Staying to the right off the tee has its own set of problems, including an uphill carry and a hungry bunker that must be carried on the second. However, two good shots that reach the optimal landing area are rewarded with an inviting pitch to a wide-open target.
For apres’’ golf, the clubhouse facilities and hilltop view are first cabin. Fees run from $47 to $65, Twilight rates (3PM) from $35 to $48. A replay is only $35 and there are special rates for Juniors and Seniors. Phone 925-556-7040 Ext#2, or look them up on the web at www.dublinranchgolf.com
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You remain the MAN, Gib.
Great stuff.
;D
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AS: all of CA golf is way overpriced. But you might be right, our "basic" courses up here are more overpriced than those in LA or OC. Our CCFAD's are pretty crazy too, but then again you have places like Monarch Beach and Pelican Hill that make ours look like downright steals. So of course it's going to depend on the course, and it is tough to generalize. In any case, no way is Santa Teresa worth $57, as you saw. Such is golf life. But compared to others that are three figures - which are far too many in our area - it's not a bad deal.
Just curious as you may be the first non-local to play my home course:
a) did you get around in less than 6 hours? I'd be surprised if that was the case if you played on a weekend... and
4hr 50 min. not bad compared to the 5 hr 35 min at aptos seascape (speaking of overpriced) the day before.
b) was there anything you did like? I actually do like the course a lot more than I let on here, cost and horrid pace of play nothwithstanding. The greens are fabulous - lots of contour and damn good condition especially for how much play the course gets - and there are some very fun golf holes, particularly on the back nine. Whaddya think?
The greens were indeed very good. The back 9 is definitely better than the completely flat front. I liked 12, 15, 16.
c) did you happen to get a look at any of the trophies in the trophy case? Notice any familiar names engraved? ;D
sorry. missed that tourist attraction. did they erect a statue of you as well? ;)
Kalen: you haven't gotten the picture by now that this IS a kick ye arse kinda course? I believe it is the poster course for such term.
TH
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AS:
Great stuff. And 4:50 is pretty damn good... for us regulars when that happens (and it sometimes does) it feels like we're flying. Sad, but true.
12, 15, 16 are all very cool golf holes - I'm especially pleased you cited 12, which a lot of people DON'T like given the trees in the way. It's my favorite hole on the course, because there are just so many ways you can play it. You can say the same about 15 - I've learned over the years to lay back off that tee, but many try to bust it up to the base of the hill. And 16 is just a very strong par 3. Great calls. Man it's fun to talk substance about my home course - never thought I'd get to in here.
As for the statue, that comes after I win club championship #3. Two only gets you two mentions on the big trophy.
;D ;D
TH
ps - you are oh so right about Seascape.. do not get me started....
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Huck, huck, huck...
I just mapped it using Google Maps and its only .65 miles from 11 green to 12 tee.. :)
17 green to 18 tee also clocked in at a measly .45 miles.
Crazy stuff indeed...
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Kalen - did you count all the twists and turns? And how can you trust that sad product from that inferior company?
;D
But OK, OK, I was exaggerating also. I do recall that using the hand-held Bushnell we added it up at around a mile.
Oh yes, these are mega-hikes. Thus the long ago challenge to Scott "I'll never take a cart" Burroughs.
BTW, check out some of the cart rides on the front nine... and remember this site is far far far from flat....
TH
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Kalen - did you count all the twists and turns? And how can you trust that sad product from that inferior company?
;D
But OK, OK, I was exaggerating also. I do recall that using the hand-held Bushnell we added it up at around a mile.
Oh yes, these are mega-hikes. Thus the long ago challenge to Scott "I'll never take a cart" Burroughs.
BTW, check out some of the cart rides on the front nine... and remember this site is far far far from flat....
TH
I did look at the preposterous routing of the front 9, and the zig zagged lines of the cart paths tell the whole story...they don't build em like that when they are flat. 8)
I was mostly distrubed that when one finishes the front 9 they are only about 1/2 mile from the clubhouse...I should have fully expected it to be closer to 1 full mile... ;) :D
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What's even crazier, Kalen, is that when one finishes 9, one really CAN'T GET TO THE CLUBHOUSE. You're likely 1/2 mile away as the crow flies, but the only way to get back is to go back through the front nine. I am not kidding. The cart path to 10 goes over a walled-off bridge with not even any way to get down to the street, which COULD take you back to the clubhouse...
THis is one crazy golf course.
TH
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Huckster,
On #16 at your home course:
Why hasn't anybody turned that into a spectacular Reverse-Redan?
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Huckster,
On #16 at your home course:
Why hasn't anybody turned that into a spectacular Reverse-Redan?
Because that would require thought, earth moving, and a lot of effort and money... none of which anyone gives to my beloved home course.
But heck, they did re-do all 18 greens in the last five years or so... more than we could have ever hoped for. Reverse redan on 16? Please. I'll be more than content if they just keep the greens in as great shape as they are now... which takes a lot of work and effort.
TH
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Huck!
Watched the flyover for the first time! Still laughing out loud!
Question: How the hell do you get at a front left pin on #7 with that tree at the front left corner of the lake before the green. Tell me it's not as bad as it looks on the flyover.
I'm from the Bay Area ( born and raised in Palo Alto ) and a San Jose State grad. ( Is the Spartan/Bronco rivalry still as intense as it was in the 70's and 80's when I went to school and lived there? ) Been living in Chicago since 1986 and I still miss the weather and everything else! I get back about twice a year and after that flyover I now believe I have to play The Ranch just because it looks to be an "experience" unique in golf!
Regards,
Andy Silis
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Gib,
I am disappointed. You have a discussion of the most poorly conceived golf courses in Norcal and I see narry a word about Moraga CC (the back nine in particular)?
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What's even crazier, Kalen, is that when one finishes 9, one really CAN'T GET TO THE CLUBHOUSE. You're likely 1/2 mile away as the crow flies, but the only way to get back is to go back through the front nine. I am not kidding. The cart path to 10 goes over a walled-off bridge with not even any way to get down to the street, which COULD take you back to the clubhouse...
THis is one crazy golf course.
TH
Huck,
How could you let me pass this one up on my trip coming up out your way? I've never played a golf course that I couldn't finish (as an erratic driver of the ball), yet also couldn't leave! It would be a one-of-a-kind experience... ::)
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A Silis:
The Bronco/Spartan rivalry still exists, but it really really faded when we gave up football. As you know back in the day the football teams used to play each other, and even though our poor little D-II Broncos generally got killed, the rare close games or victories (were there any?) were a huge big deal. Now without that, well... they've created this "challenge series" that gives a cup each year to the school with the most wins in all sports combined, but it seems to me no one pays that much attention to it - MUCH more attention is paid to each school's league rivals. Oh, the basketball games still have some meaning... but it's nothing like our day. I am 85 grad of SCU.
Now as for The Ranch #7, all I can say is it's WORSE in person that that flyover shows. I am not kidding. It truly does have to be seen to be believed. One's choices after a decent tee shot are either a SW layup to an area 5 yards wide, or a shot from a downill lie in about the 200 range trying to wrap it around a tree, over a lake, to a green that has a 5 foot side to side tier, with OB left and a cart path to bounce the ball OB. I swear this could be the single worst-conceived golf hole I have ever seen.
Andy: I believe your plate is full with the best we have to offer. But if you want the worst for contrast, well you know where to go.
TH
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RETRACTION
I've neen reminded off-line about something that was in the back of my mind, but should have stated in my post above... the awful tree on 7 at the The Ranch has been removed. So while it remains an awful golf hole, it's not quite AS awful.
Change my assessment to:
Now as for The Ranch #7, all I can say is it's different in person than that flyover shows, pretty much worse. I am not kidding. It truly does have to be seen to be believed. One's choices after a decent tee shot are either a SW layup to an area 5 yards wide, or a shot from a downill lie in about the 200 range, over a lake, to a green that has a 5 foot side to side tier, with OB left and a cart path to bounce the ball OB. I swear this could be the single worst-conceived golf hole I have ever seen. The good news is the tree that used to be there is now gone.
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Jeff,
What a glaring omission. Mea Culpa. I had forgotten about our climb to Moraga's back nine. I thought having the caddies dressed as Himalayan Sherpas was a nice touch though.
Like Huck, I've got to amend a previous post. Algie Pulley Jr. is the end of the conversation . . . .
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I will never forget going to Moraga with my father as a potential club to join when I was 17. Boy, am I glad he chose Sequoyah...
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In the category of poor golf courses on bad pieces of land I would present The Bridges in San Ramon. A Johnny Miller course. I guess you could say he did the best with what he had to work with but as Gib noted Dublin Ranch shows what an excellent design can be built on far less than an excellent location
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Andy,
Re: #7, I just went right through the middle of the tree. No other way to do it.
Sad it's gone.
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I have a friend who's a member at Moraga, and while he talks a lot about how hard that back nine is (and he's right about that), he also doesn't hate it. I try to steer the conversation elsewhere when it comes up.
And John, oh yes, The Bridges at San Ramon belongs in this conversation most definitely. Good lord what a monstrosity that is as well.
Matt - would you still be sad that tree on #7 is gone had you hit it? ;)
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I have a friend who's a member at Moraga, and while he talks a lot about how hard that back nine is (and he's right about that), he also doesn't hate it. I try to steer the conversation elsewhere when it comes up.
And John, oh yes, The Bridges at San Ramon belongs in this conversation most definitely. Good lord what a monstrosity that is as well.
Matt - would you still be sad that tree on #7 is gone had you hit it? ;)
Tom:
I won't play a Johnny Miller design if someone paid me to.
Okay, well maybe if someone paid me to play it.
I've caddied at the Bridges, not even played. What a piece of crap.
Regarding Dublin Ranch, I thought it was a lot of fun. I enjoyed the par 63 layout/idea.
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Jed:
Ever been to Eagle Ridge in Gilroy? It's more Miller, more of the same overly severe overdone soul-wrecking golf. Sigh.
My we do have a lot of bad golf courses in the greater Bay Area...
:'(
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Jed -
How about Metropolitan at the Oakland Airport? Perhaps Miller's greatest piece of work ...
Mike
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I've played both Metropolitan and Thanksgiving Point here in Utah and would agrue that TP is the better course.
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Tom,
Since I don't anticipate playing there again, they could have planted a second tree right next to it, as far as I'm concerned.
;D
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Mike brings up a good one - Metropolitan is great fun. I don't doubt Kalen though that Thanksgiving Point is better.
And Matt, so you're not masochist, you're a sadist. Good to know.
;D
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Another Miller course, that admittedly I have not played, but have heard both good and bad is Stone Creek in Marin. I am familiar with the location from its prior life as the Renaissance Faire. From what I know of the area a tough piece of land to work with stunning views I would suspect great Oak trees but not one that would seem to naturally lend itself to a golf course. Add in a home development and even more issues!!
I have not played Thanksgiving Point but have Metropolitan and I like that course very much. A basic flat peice of land fill turned into a great course.
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How do you compare the architectural effort at a beautiful expansive meadow in Utah versus a flat trash dump in Oakland?
I've played TP and I think they may have gotten more out of the land at Metro than they did at TP.
TP is "better" but I think it could have been "mo' betta".
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How do you compare the architectural effort at a beautiful expansive meadow in Utah versus a flat trash dump in Oakland?
I've played TP and I think they may have gotten more out of the land at Metro than they did at TP.
TP is "better" but I think it could have been "mo' betta".
Matt,
That could very well be the case, but in terms of which course is the better course, hard to not go with TP on that one.
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I thought Metro was actually done by associates of Johnny and had very minimal work done by him on it?
As for Stonetree, I've heard it is still more of the same crapola, though I've never played it.
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I wouldn't disagree with anyone who says Stonetree is more of the same crapola.
Matt likes it a lot more than I do. I guess it's not THAT bad. But once again it's another severe golf course....
TH
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Maderas is ok. From playing them both once, it reminded me a little of Eagle Ridge, but not as severe, and without the houses.
I proud that my thread has morphed into like 5 different topics so far.
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Since this has morphed into somewhat of a Johnny Miller design discussion, any played Eagle Vines in Napa? I have been invited to pay with some friends there in early November. They described as part Shakespeare/Chardonnay part a new course.
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JK:
I played it. It is indeed one of the former Clun Shakespeare nines plus a new nine. I'd say overall it's pretty good, not worth seeking out but definitely worth playing if you're up there. Take the friends up on the invite - you won't regret it.
TH
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Tom & John, I think Eagle Vines is 11 old and seven new or vice versa. It has some good individual holes but the routing is all over the place. Not worth the prime time rate, but worth a play. We have a garbage Miller course here in Sacto too, Whitney Oaks, needs a typical JM redesign. Do you think he does that on purpose? Oh, and you left out Poppy Ridge as another bad East Bay course.
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Is it really 11 and 7? Hell, could be, I don't know, I only played it once. And Whitney Oaks is legendary... as for Poppy Ridge, Messrs. Pieracci and I played it in the NCGA Masters (over 40) 4ball recently (along with Mr. Benham and his partner) and I must say our relatively poor play was caused at least a little bit by bad moods. You see, each of us stated separately at one point in the 36 holes: "you know, the more I play this course, the more I dislike it."
And it's true, even for me. I had been a supporter/defender of Poppy Ridge, but now the bullshit conditions even have me disliking it. That stupid clumpy grass in the rough everywhere is just not conducive to golf fun... and the way they water the crap out of it, making a soft course out of one that might be fun it if were firm, just seals the deal.
The design has always been kinda suspect, but at least before conditions were good, making it at least somewhat fun.
Now? Add this all up and factor in that it's a very very very hard walk and we have a facility that only the MOST ardent NCGA supporter can possibly be proud of. It's kinda sad, really.
They do have a great practice area, though.
TH
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As far as the Johnny Miller discussion goes: Whitney Oaks is indeed quite absurd, but it has a few charms. I found Eagle Ridge less offensive, Metropolitan better still, though boring from tee to green in a few stretches. I'm still on board as a Poppy Ridge fan to some degree, though it is far too squishy and penal.
By comparison to any of those courses, Bridges is a complete joke. But The Ranch is a singular entity in terms of it's impossibly contrived, shoe-horned, difficult nature. I think it would make for a fantastic GCA outing in that respect, though anyone who is offended by the bunkering on the 15th hole at Cypress Point would probably have a nasty infarction just from looking at a topographic map of The Ranch site.
I doubt even Mr. Cohn could come up up with a redesign that could salvage that travesty.
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Oooooh more pile on Johnny Miller crap....
How about the "new" genoa lakes course? The name escapes me now what it used to be called, but THAT course is an absolute travesty.
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Oooooh more pile on Johnny Miller crap....
How about the "new" genoa lakes course? The name escapes me now what it used to be called, but THAT course is an absolute travesty.
I believe it was the "Sierra Nevada Golf Ranch," or something to that effect. I also believe he collaborated with John Harbottle III on that one. I'm sad to hear it is subpar. I'll just focus on Metropolitan, lest my opinion of Mr. Miller be overly stercoraceous... ;D
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Oooooh more pile on Johnny Miller crap....
How about the "new" genoa lakes course? The name escapes me now what it used to be called, but THAT course is an absolute travesty.
I believe it was the "Sierra Nevada Golf Ranch," or something to that effect. I also believe he collaborated with John Harbottle III on that one. I'm sad to hear it is subpar. I'll just focus on Metropolitan, lest my opinion of Mr. Miller be overly stercoraceous... ;D
Before you all pile on too much, Thanksgiving Point, is far from a travesty. Outside of the fact that it would be a brutal walk, its got some very good holes including 13-17.
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I thought Metro was actually done by associates of Johnny and had very minimal work done by him on it?
As for Stonetree, I've heard it is still more of the same crapola, though I've never played it.
Jed - that was my point in that Metro has his name on it but he may not have actually done it. If so, he did a great job by not making it unplayable.
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I thought of that clear back when I wrote this a couple years ago:
DUBLIN RANCH GOLF COURSE.
The idea of a so-called ““executive length”” golf course is an instant turn-off for many players; unfortunately they miss some unique layouts like Dublin Ranch Golf Course, the subject of this month’’s installment of our ““Road Trips for County Golfers”” series.
Located just two miles off highway 580 at the Fallon Road exit in Dublin, Robert Trent Jones, II senior architect Don Knott transformed an undulating parcel of land into a delightful and entertaining string of holes for players of every ability.
There is a tendency in this country to dismiss any golf course with a par of less than 70 with yardage under 6500 yards as ““too easy.”” Dublin Ranch, with a par of 63 and 4820 yards is a legitimate test of golf. Throw in a little wind and the average 15 handicapper will do well to break 80.
It reminds me of an English fellow I met in a pub many years ago. We were discussing the overall length of golf courses in England vs. the United States. He chuckled (with a hint of a sneer) ““Well, your courses may be longer than ours, but not certainly not better. In America, ‘‘big’’ is its own justification, isn’’t it?””
Ouch. One only has to look at that horrendous mess at ““The Ranch Golf Club”” in San Jose for an example of the stupidity of trying to jam a full sized layout on acreage better suited to a shorter course.
By contrast, Dublin Ranch flows with the land, taking full advantage of scenic views and natural greensites with an ingenious routing that includes a par-five on both sides of the 31-32-63 total par.
Each nine hole sequence more or less follows a clockwise circle, presenting a different wind direction from all points on the compass.
The strength of the golf course is in the eleven par-three holes. They vary in length from 143 to 224 yards, each completely unique. The shorter holes require pinpoint precision, the longer ones provide ample area to use the contours of the ground to run the ball to the hole.
Our favorite features on the course were part of an overall theme to encourage several different approach shot options with mounds, rolls, folds and kick-points. Depending on the pin placement and shifting wind directions, a 150 yard shot might require anything between a 9-iron and a 4-iron
The fringes of the green are kept closely mowed on one side or another, so short hitters, women and seniors have few forced carries to contend with.
Despite the awful weather of late, the conditions were outstanding with firm fairways, manicured nearly perfect. The putting surfaces are smooth and consistent. In truth, it is a public course with better overall agronomy than the vast majority of the private clubs.
Unless you show up on a weekend morning, play moves along at a brisk pace. A gentleman I played with tells me you can walk up most afternoons with little or no waiting. We played on a Sunday afternoon and got around the course in about three hours. Dublin Ranch opened a year ago and word of its quality has not spread much further than the locals.
Our favorite holes included the 7th, a drop-shot from a terraced tee box to a green nestled at the bottom of a natural depression. In the distance are rolling hills with towering Mt. Diablo as the centerpiece. To the left a lonely radar dish listening to the stars.
As Dublin Ranch is routed along a series of high ridges, there are expansive panoramas on nearly every hole. My only complaint was a series of garish tract houses on three holes crowding the fringes of my photos with the requisite tiny backyards, enclosed with ugly green iron fences.
We also liked the ninth hole, a par-4 that slides around a corner bunker to a firm green fronted by a steep ramp. The putting surface is divided into sections, altering the strategy of where to land the approach shot with every move of the pin.
Normally, long par-3's can be a slog with no personality. Knott did a superb job with the 224 yard 15th by constructing a sprawling putting surface with 40 yards in front to chase the ball onto the green. At Dublin Ranch, the holes that look difficult can be parred with nothing more than a decent swing and a little brains.
By contrast, for the overly aggressive, trouble lurks. The phrase ““deceptively easy”” is an apt description of the 17th - a 143 yard par-4 that looks to be little more than a long pitch. Yet the wind swirls, and the narrow and wide putting surface guarded front and left lures you towards a steep fall-off. The smart play is to the bailout area hidden on the right, that kicks the ball onto the green.
At Dublin Ranch you must look hard and think carefully.
The par-5 18th hole might be the most intricate, strategic and downright clever finishing hole in the Bay Area. At 521 yards, the fairway splits into two landing areas, divided by a grassy wall. The left side is an easier target and carry, but confronts players with a blind second shot over a bunker. Staying left also leaves a maddening uphill third over yawning bunkers with the green falling away.
Staying to the right off the tee has its own set of problems, including an uphill carry and a hungry bunker that must be carried on the second. However, two good shots that reach the optimal landing area are rewarded with an inviting pitch to a wide-open target.
For apres’’ golf, the clubhouse facilities and hilltop view are first cabin. Fees run from $47 to $65, Twilight rates (3PM) from $35 to $48. A replay is only $35 and there are special rates for Juniors and Seniors. Phone 925-556-7040 Ext#2, or look them up on the web at www.dublinranchgolf.com
I played Dublin Ranch this morning. It seems the management there has also been bitten by the "championship course" bug. About half of the holes have new, longer back tees. However, where the original tees are all quite expansive, rectangular and perfectly flat/groomed, the new ones are little, ageometric slivers of uneven turf shoved into nooks or pushed out from the natural hillsides. Some of them feature saplings which were sloppily planted one after another every two feet, several of which are already leaning over with their support steak pulled out of the ground by the wind. Some of them have bushes growing right up to the front of the tee box which they didn't bother to clear away. The even did a shoddy job of engraving the new yardages on the existing hole diagrams which are displayed on small boulders next to each tee box. The course used to be immaculate, but these changes all stick out like sore thumbs
From what I've seen in print, the changes were made in house (sans architect) to boost the posted yardage of the course and attract "better players." Personally I think the new tees allow better players to bomb driver on every hole by making the hazards unreachable, whereas the old tees may have forced more fairway woods and irons off of the tee for the timid. Fortunately, the old blue tee boxes still exist for those that wish to ignore tee markers (if only Augusta National had kept their old tee boxes…)
Alas, apparently, big is still its own justification, Gib.
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Boy, The Ranch sure sounds like ... dare I say ... Summitpointe.
Eagle Vines is ok, but Metropolitan is more fun. Their GPS racket fee at Metro has really turned me off though AND it now costs more to walk than ride. I'm not kidding. Book your round on Golfnow then ask to switch to walking and it costs you more. Nuts or what?
Dublin is real fun, but whenever I mention it to friends ... they cringe at the short length. I try to explain how it's a fun experience with 12-13 par 3's and ... still no interest. So I'm not surprised of the changes there.
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Patrick:
THE RANCH is actually nothing at all like Summipointe, except perhaps in terms of hilly terrain. As weird as Summitpointe is, it's airport-landing field wide compared to The Ranch.
I am not kidding....
TH