Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Chris Moore on July 21, 2007, 09:21:36 PM
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Upcoming trip includes:
Lahinch
Old Head
Doonbeg
Dooks
Ballybunion
Waterville
Any suggestions on other courses not to miss in the Southwest?
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You could add Tralee to that list, I suppose, but you've got all the major ones covered.
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Suggest you play the new Ballybunion course: Cashen
I think it is way underrated and a better golf experience than Dooks or Old Head
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There are some pictures of the Cashen course at Ballybunion on this thread. It's wild, wild, wild. Too severe to be considered a top notch course but I absolutely loved it. If you are at Ballybunion you really should play it.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=27169;start=msg514186#msg514186
Tralee is also great fun. Stunning scenery and a magnificent back nine. Only Dooks has the edge on it in terms of scenery but Tralee is a better course.
You could also play Killarney but you're probably coming over to play links golf so I wouldn't recommend it unless you are actually staying in Killarney and want a hassle free day.
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Some pictures of tralee - all from www.golfarchitecturepictures.com
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee053.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee056.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee085.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee120.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee134.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee144.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee149.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee170.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee184.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee185.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee197.jpg)
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/edtilley/tralee/Tralee200.jpg)
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Chris
You've got the cream covered - from what I hear Dingle is nice and if you want to try a parkland course in the area with a tranquil setting - Killarney would be a good bet.
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Be sure to let us know how your trip went. I'm especially interested to see how Old Head stacks up, being a relatively new course on what seems to be wonderful property.
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Ring of Kerry and Kenmare are a couple of other second echalon, but worthwhile courses. JC
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I would not miss Tralee - I second it.
DB
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Tralee was the most fun I've had in a downpour with 40 mph winds.
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I highly recommend, it is an awesome course. In your list I'd rank it ahead of Waterville and perhaps Old Head as well (less dramatic but more linksy than Old Head) Haven't played Dooks or Doonbeg so can't comment on how it compares to those. Tralee starts out on the flat part of the property but is very challenging when the wind's up, which it almost always is in SW Ireland, and then you move into the dunes and giant dunes are something SW Ireland is not lacking! It is like two different courses, each wonderful in their own way.
I'd skip Killarney's courses with the possible exception of a "just off the plane at noon and want a warm up round" game at Killarney Killeen. I've played it twice that way since it just worked out due to schedule and my dad likes that course for some reason, but if it were up to me I'd think there ought to be some lesser known hidden gem in the area that would provide a course more unlike what is not hard to find in many parts of the US. I played Mahoney's Point last trip for the first time and it will definitely be my last time. Its not a bad course, but why travel to Ireland to play what I can find here in Iowa, let alone in the golfing mecca parts of the US? I'd rather play something I've never heard of before and hope I stumble upon the Painswick of SW Ireland!
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My brother really liked Tralee and I've heard good things about Dingle. My Dad liked Waterville, but his golfing buddies hated it (for the price). They said they wouldn't go back. They all really liked the Cashen course though!
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Old Head at £200 or $400 a round, this is another pretty big money course that survives because overseas visitors pay the money. Personally I'd visit a 2nd division course in a nice area and have a wonderful meal and bottle of wine afterwards.
PB and Pinehurst are dead expensive but unlike Kingsbarns and OH they have history and pedigree. There are dozens of great venues in GB&I with plenty of pedigree and history that will give you a brillant golfing experience with a little value for money as well.
Only when American and Japanese golfers give the ultra high money venues a wide berth will the prices return to reality.
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Dont pass on Old Head.Alot of people on here are anti-old head which is their loss.Unless you have played it recently you cant really comment on it as it has changed so much since 2005,plus sergio did his pre-open practise there a couple of weeks ago when he went to Ireland for 4 days and the only course he played was old head every day.I am sure if its good enough for El Nino it cant be as bad as some make it out to be.
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I've played all the courses you mentioned, and might only suggest an inland course for variety (I played Fota Island and found it to be a great relief).
I played Tralee on a brutally windy day ... so much that it really took away from the enjoyment and with gusts over 45 mph, it was nearly unplayable.
I played Old Head a few weeks ago (it was my second time there), and also think it's an excellent track -- nice variety, some outstanding holes and an almost surreal piece of property. Given its age, I think it's unfair to hold history and pedigree against it.
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Dan/Don - I'm not being critical of the course, I'm being critical of the pricing structure v history and pedigree. PB and Pinehurst maybe very expensive but they are US Open venues.
OH and Kingsbarns are 40% more expensive than TOC which has held numerous Opens. Places like Muirfield, Hoylake and Sandwich are not cheap but they are proven major championship venues and brimming with history and tradition, yet a 36 hole day at these venues is around 50% of the price of a similar day at OH.
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Sean/Mark - It's difficult to defend the price/value relationship at Old Head, but for a visiting Yank, when you consider what most of all already have invested in the trip, transportation, lodging, etc. the marginal cost is important to keep in perspective.
Of all the course I played in Ireland, I really enjoyed Waterville and would rank that the highest. I also felt Dooks offered me the least non-tourist experience. -Dan
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What is the typical drive time from the area where Ballybunion and Lahinch are to Northern Ireland (RP, RCD). Would this be too much (time invested to get there) for one trip?
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Has Castlegregory been expanded to 18? The 9 I played a few years ago was set in a beautiful spot and the course was difficult.
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If those of you who mentioned "Dingle" above meant Ceann Sibeal, I can say that while I enjoyed it, and remember it fondly, it does not, perhaps, live up to the heights of Ballybunion or Lahinch. The Dingle peninsula itself was a highlight of our trip, but not necessarily from a golf perspective.
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Funny what different people like and dislike. I hated The Cashen Course and love the experience at Old Head no matter what the cost. OH-Good golf course, out of this world setting.
If I could only play one course in Ireland for the rest of my life it would be Lahinch.
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Play the Cashen Course, just don't worry about your score. It is great fun. Waterville is way overrated. Some of the holes on the back nine are excellent but I take issue with the generally soft conditions that make it play more like a parkland course on the water. Tralee is a better choice. Old Head is on a remarkable piece of property but is a long hike from The Ring of Kerry.
Ceann Sibeal will give you a wondeerful welcome and is on one of the most scenic parts of Dingle, overlooking the ocean and Skellig Michael. The course, on the other hand, is a let down.
I played Ring of Kerry and found it to be like 1000 course here in the US. It is on the way to Old Head so stop in. The view is nice and the people warm and welcoming.
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There is an old quote that goes something like this - "The quality of the product will be long remembered after the price you paid."
I have been to Ireland only once (so far) - and we paid big prices for Old Head, Doonbeg, Trailee, Lahinch, etc. But, I wouldn't trade it for anything - if you are going, plan to spend the money necessary to play the top courses. It does seem out of line at times (have you priced the Kohler courses lately?) - but you are going for a once in a lifetime Irish golf experience - do not sweat a couple hundred $$$ and miss the courses you wish you had played.
Doug
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I really enjoyed Old Head but certainly can see the point people make about the price. I'd say if you haven't played it before, play it once. If you think it is worth it again then you can play it next time, if not at least you've seen it. I'll probably play it again since I liked it, and especially since I played it in 2004 and I am curious to see the changes that have been made since then.
Perhaps Old Head will end up being unable to support those types of greens fees in the future (or won't be able to increase them at a pace comparable to other courses) once most visitors have already played it on a previous visit and have already taken pictures and checked it off their "hit list" of top courses they have to play. A course like Ballybunion Old and Lahinch you play every time you visit, or at least I will.
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Skellig Bay golf club is another option. I haven't played it, but the photos look great. I think Aidan may have photographed it.
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There is an old quote that goes something like this - "The quality of the product will be long remembered after the price you paid."
I have been to Ireland only once (so far) - and we paid big prices for Old Head, Doonbeg, Trailee, Lahinch, etc. But, I wouldn't trade it for anything - if you are going, plan to spend the money necessary to play the top courses. It does seem out of line at times (have you priced the Kohler courses lately?) - but you are going for a once in a lifetime Irish golf experience - do not sweat a couple hundred $$$ and miss the courses you wish you had played.
Doug
doug,
if you are going for a once in a lifetime "irish golf experience", i'd be more inclined to follow what sean arble is saying... i will not pay to play old head because it is too expensive... but more than that, i also don't feel it is an irish golf experience... there are hundreds of courses in this country that provide a genuine welcome, great golf and a bunch of locals to have a blather with... old head provides corporate entertainment with helicopter pad, no atmosphere and an altogether 'new ireland commercial' approach to golf... in the south-west, lahinch and ballybunion are the only must-plays...
for those that haven't, i really would try and make the trip to the magnificent seven (and the rest!) in the west / north-west before the whole of the world realises what is going on and the place goes the same way as the other tourist traps... it's already started after all...
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If you are going to play Old Head and you are looking for another course to play in that vicinity I would suggest Cork Golf Club. It is an affordable, uncrowded course on the edge of Cork that plays along an estuary and through an old quarry. It is an easy roundtrip from Kinsale and provides a relaxed enjoyable round of golf in an interesting setting. It is not links golf, but it is also quite different than most American courses. You will see very few tourists there. It was designed by Mackenzie.
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There is an old quote that goes something like this - "The quality of the product will be long remembered after the price you paid."
I have been to Ireland only once (so far) - and we paid big prices for Old Head, Doonbeg, Trailee, Lahinch, etc. But, I wouldn't trade it for anything - if you are going, plan to spend the money necessary to play the top courses. It does seem out of line at times (have you priced the Kohler courses lately?) - but you are going for a once in a lifetime Irish golf experience - do not sweat a couple hundred $$$ and miss the courses you wish you had played.
Doug
doug,
if you are going for a once in a lifetime "irish golf experience", i'd be more inclined to follow what sean arble is saying... i will not pay to play old head because it is too expensive... but more than that, i also don't feel it is an irish golf experience... there are hundreds of courses in this country that provide a genuine welcome, great golf and a bunch of locals to have a blather with... old head provides corporate entertainment with helicopter pad, no atmosphere and an altogether 'new ireland commercial' approach to golf... in the south-west, lahinch and ballybunion are the only must-plays...
for those that haven't, i really would try and make the trip to the magnificent seven (and the rest!) in the west / north-west before the whole of the world realises what is going on and the place goes the same way as the other tourist traps... it's already started after all...
Ally,
I'm with you. It's not the cost that sours me (although as a professional it's not an issue anyway)
I'm there for the experience.
The last thing I want to do in Scotland or Ireland is have the
modern commercial big money experience I'm escaping from.
The Northwest is the last refuge, but currently that region is spending big to promote itself so it's only a matter of time.
Cork Golf Club is a worthwhile play by the way and will provide quite the contrast to Old Head (and is on the way)
Jeff
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I played Tralee nearly 20 years ago and had a recollection that the back nine was pretty wild. I'd forgotten how wild it was until I saw those pictures that Ed posted ;D
The wind blew that day as well although the locals assured us it was just the usual steady breeze! To me that's one of the put offs with SW Ireland. Whilst one should expect wind on a links course, and indeed you need some wind to make it a challenge (say 15 - 20 mph), too often in that part of Ireland the strong winds off the Atlantic make it too difficult to be really enjoyable.
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Forget the Old Head. It was created merely to suck $$$$ out of people who have more money than sense. It is built on an incredible piece of property but in MHO if situated elsewhere wouldnt get a fraction of the play it gets. It is the beneficiary of its location.
Go play 4 great courses in the North West for the same amount of money, where you will find people who are more interested in the size of your heart than that of your wallet. As a caveat for those who may not be thrilled with my opinion, it's just that.......my opinion.
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Chris
My Ireland experience started at Lahinch and then both Ballybunion courses. I too recommend the Cashen course at Ballybunion as it has too many thrilling shots to dismiss. Just leave your pencil in the bag and have fun.
Instead of staying in the south, we headed up north. You will get the full fix of GREAT Irish hospitality and great golf at Ballyliffin, Enniscrone, Donegal, Carne, Connamura, Rosapana and Portsalon among others. The country is beautiful up there. The people are even nicer.
Enjoy
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Where would everyone here rate Portmarnock? Is this in the same category as Bally and Lah in terms of must play?
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Where would everyone here rate Portmarnock? Is this in the same category as Bally and Lah in terms of must play?
portmarnock is cracking... it does not have the same 'wow' factor as lahinch or ballybunion because it is on relatively flat ground... it has some lovely views (with water on three sides and howth head and ireland's eye) but it does not have high tees and long sandy beach views... it is a very fair course... there are only two blind tee-shots and no fully blind approach shots... it has some great green complexes and some very strategic bunkering... it is long and tough and is 'championship' standard in every sense of the word... the 14th is a celebrated par-4 and the 15th is regarded as one of the best known par-3's in golf...it has a wonderful clubhouse and it feels like a genuine members club... it is historic and in no way affected by the new commercial ireland that i talked of...
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I played Tralee nearly 20 years ago and had a recollection that the back nine was pretty wild. I'd forgotten how wild it was until I saw those pictures that Ed posted ;D
The wind blew that day as well although the locals assured us it was just the usual steady breeze! To me that's one of the put offs with SW Ireland. Whilst one should expect wind on a links course, and indeed you need some wind to make it a challenge (say 15 - 20 mph), too often in that part of Ireland the strong winds off the Atlantic make it too difficult to be really enjoyable.
I really disagree. I find the extreme winds are what makes it the most enjoyable. I've played in some gale force winds and the courses are still playable, even if staying on one's feet is sometimes a challenge! The greenskeepers probably quickly learn through experience not to put the pins in places that will be a problem on days when the highest winds are likely. Yeah, it'll blow around a bit on some parts of the green so you have to be quick on your feet if you find a chip or first putt ending up in a favorable place, and will definitely vibrate on every putt and sometimes in the fairway, and you learn to lean your tee into the breeze a bit on exposed tees to keep it from falling off during your downswing.
I think trying to radically change the way you play is a good part of the fun there, and you get to enjoy the architecture a lot more when you are trying to think your way around and through the dunes rather than hitting your normal shot and either cutting/drawing it to hold the line or aiming off to the side to allow for the wind.
Plus if you are paying so much in greens fees and travel costs thanks to our weak dollar, you can look at the difficulty as getting more for your money since you'll take more shots and find yourself challenged quite a bit more than you would on a day with only 15-20 mph. That's practically calm for SW Ireland and you are essentially playing the same game of golf you play at home over a different course. That's not really experiencing Irish golf, its just playing American golf and allowing for more bounce and run after the ball lands.
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Where would everyone here rate Portmarnock? Is this in the same category as Bally and Lah in terms of must play?
It is fameous as one of the best routed courses in Ireland. I think it's wonderful.
I think the new Portmarnock links is not highly rated on this website, but I played it the other day and really enjoyed it. Some great holes and a pretty good standard all the way around.