Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Michael Christensen on February 11, 2007, 06:03:50 PM
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Even though it was a NT (No Tiger) event it still counts. Way to put it away and you deserve a little more publicity about the money you gave Conrad Dobler for his daughter's college education. That was a class act!
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Yes, it was a nice win for Phil. Nance and Faldo made a big deal about how he tied the tournament scoring record for both total score and margin.
Of course, they failed to emphasize that Phil enjoyed preferred lies, whereas the previous record holders did not.
I am ardently against using preferred lies at any time. However, in the interest of commerce, I'll accept preferred lies if the golf course is otherwise unplayable.
That was not the case this weekend in Pebble Beach. In fact, the announcers even pointed out how well the courses played despite the rains, since the area had gone through a rather protracted drought.
The tour's slaphappy use of preferred lies cheapens their product and is becoming annoying.
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Phil was on his game this whole week, especially on Sunday. What did he have 9 birds on Sunday. Granted conditions were relatively benign, but great job.
And his working out appears to have paid off, his man boobs are almost gone now!! ;D
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Congrats, he now has the qualifications it takes a player to get into the LPGA Hall of Fame. Thirty career wins, two majors, and ten years.
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The tour's slaphappy use of preferred lies cheapens their product and is becoming annoying.
JS
I Monday qualified into the 2000 SEI event in Philadelphia and on Friday morning we played it up because rain was in the forecast...you can't make this stuff up...
JES
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Jim,
The tour had to enact preferred lies as a precaution. Because they're playing three different courses, if they were going to play preferred lies at any point in the first three days, then they had to do it from the beginning. Otherwise you could end up with one guy playing it down at Spyglass, for example, and another playing Spyglass with LC&P.
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I thought the courses were fairly well presented. Isn't the casual water relief sufficient? That gives lift, clean and drop relief through the green in cases of wet conditions.
James B
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"So complete was his performance at Pebble that Mickelson was among the top five in driving accuracy, greens in regulation, putting and driving distance."
Whoa...
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Some interesting stats about Phil...
* He made 25 birdies and 1 eagle. He was under par on 36% of all holes.
* He hit 81.8% of all fairways. 4th best in the entire field. While I doubt conditions at AT&T were similar to WFW last June, this week seems like he solved those driving woes that cost him so dearly at the open.
* He was also 4th in driving distance, at 285.1 yards. The whole field was about 15 yards short of their average driving distance. I didn't see the tournament. Was this due to weather, course setups, something else?
* He not only hit 79.2% of all greens -- a spectacular number that tied him for 1st -- he took an average of 1.596 putts per GIR. 1st in the field. No wonder he lapped everyone!
* From PGATour.com: "at the fifth, playing 202 yards, he hit a "perfect" 6-iron. It's a club he flies 180 yards, so downwind he expected the ball to end up 30 feet short of the flagstick. Instead, it airmailed the green and landed in six-inch rough. About 30 people searched for the ball, including two marshals within five yards of where Mickelson thought it landed." Phil managed to make bogey anyway, and then went on a tear, making birdie on 7 holes.
In normal conditions, wouldn't Phil fly a 6-iron longer than 180 yards?
One week doesn't tell much about the coming year, but it sure would be cool if Phil can get his game together again this year. Might make for some fascinating majors in 2007.
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Jim Nugent
re average driving distance.
It looked pretty cool there - cooler than the average tour event. That will cut the distance down somewhat.
James B
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* From PGATour.com: "at the fifth, playing 202 yards, he hit a "perfect" 6-iron. It's a club he flies 180 yards, so downwind he expected the ball to end up 30 feet short of the flagstick. Instead, it airmailed the green and landed in six-inch rough. About 30 people searched for the ball, including two marshals within five yards of where Mickelson thought it landed." Phil managed to make bogey anyway, and then went on a tear, making birdie on 7 holes.
In normal conditions, wouldn't Phil fly a 6-iron longer than 180 yards?
They got the part about him making a bogey wrong (he doubled) so it sure is possible they could make another mistake.
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Jim,
The tour had to enact preferred lies as a precaution. Because they're playing three different courses, if they were going to play preferred lies at any point in the first three days, then they had to do it from the beginning. Otherwise you could end up with one guy playing it down at Spyglass, for example, and another playing Spyglass with LC&P.
Matt, that explains the first three days, but not Sunday. One course, whole field there, and it looked sunny to me. What was the deal?
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"So complete was his performance at Pebble that Mickelson was among the top five in driving accuracy, greens in regulation, putting and driving distance."
Whoa...
Nandralone will do that for you every time.
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They got the part about him making a bogey wrong (he doubled) so it sure is possible they could make another mistake.
Kevin, I just checked PGATour.com again. They corrected the article, to say double instead of bogey.
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Matt:
I watched some of the broadcast every day and most of it Friday and Saturday. Conditions certainly were tough, particularly on Friday, if I remember correctly.
I saw no reason on any day to use the local rule for preferred lies.
Golf is a game played outdoors, over uncertain ground and in uncertain conditions. They could have played the ball down every day. Sure, they would have gotten some mud on the ball, and there would have been some casual water, so what? Those situations are accounted for in the rules.
Here's the thing, really: if you can go out and play, you can play the ball down. It may not be pretty, you may feel you get a large share of bad luck, but it is not unfair. It is what it is. It's part of the game.
BTW, you are right- once they made the decision to invoke preferred lies, they had to do it on all the courses to be able to compare scores.
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Prefered lies...a less than stellar field....pretty decent weather...so Phil wins. Big deal.
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Craig--why denigrate the field?
Furyk, Donald, Singh, Love, and DiMarco might beg to differ
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Eric,
those guys can differ all they want...if Tiger ain't in the field it's a les than stellar field...
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Tiger won't be at the Nissan, but I would call that field a very stellar field at the very least. 8 of the top 10 in the world are scheduled to play.
Phil takes some shots on here, and I think its good to see him getting his props this week because he deserved it. I've never seen Phil so accurate off the tee. Then take into consideration that Poppy and Spyglass Hill have got to be two of the narrowest courses on tour, thats very impressive.
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Eric,
those guys can differ all they want...if Tiger ain't in the field it's a les than stellar field...
I don't disagree Sully, but it makes me wonder if it's healthy for the game to have it's popularity and future hinging on one man. Tiger can't play them all, but if the general golf fans feel this way, that the tournament isn't that stellar because El Tigre isn't there, then the games future could have some problems if another player or players doesn't step forward to garner the fans affections like Tiger has.
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For a feel good story about Phil, go to today's Shackelford.
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Phil did hit 3 Wood off 18 on Sunday. Interesting!!!
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The only two minutes of the entire tournament I saw were his second, third and fourth shots on 18. I thought hitting three wood on the second shot was a typical Phil Mik hot dog shot, but it's hard to argue with the result of that shot and the pitch. How 'bout backing up a 45 yard pitch like that...
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bravo, bravo Mr Stamm.....I have been saying that for weeks and get hit over the head......it is not good for the tour to be reliant on one player.....ask Mr Vickers what his feelings are about being a non-Tiger event...an event that preceeded Mr Woods adn flourished....but he doesn't want to play there and the date move screwed them. So, another great tournament and site bites the dust!
preferred lies are not what you want ever, but they seem to do it there more often than not...it absolutely effected Phil's play, but others got the same benefit and couldn't catch him...it doesn't erase Winged Foot as CBS/ESPN seem to think, but his game looks like it is getting in shape....
as far as a less than stellar field if Woods is not in the tourney, that is the perception by 99% of the golfing world, unfortunately he controls everything in the game
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"Furyk, Donald, Singh, Love, and DiMarco might beg to differ"
The only one in that bunch that has played ANY decent golf in the last 18 months is Furyk.....
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Hey Mike, excellent thread and solid observations about the tour needing more than one guy...because when that one guys not around, the tournament loses luster a bit...see the International. That's a terrible loss BTW.
I'm glad to see Phil in the winners circle...but the job is not even half done. I wrote on my website that the problem wasn't his driver, but him falling prey to pemptation...tyring to go for the win from the trouble the driver caused him.
http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=510
We won’t know if the lesson from Winged Foot was learned or not until Phil is faced with same dilemma. Will he make a smart decision and play safe when forced to or not? Phil won three majors by not losing strokes to bad decisions. That’s the issue he still must prove and he will face it in majors-to-come. “Becoming a better driver” of the golf ball may actually hurt him in a situation where one mistake will sink his chances.
I’m all for his renewed confidence, I’m all for his new workout regimen, and I’m all for a big time redemption from that horrible summer day, but I have not seen that Phil gets the true crux of the issue. It wasn’t the drive that killed him in the open, it was going for the green from a ridiculous angle. That hideous low percentage shot choice was the issue.
Solve that Phil. The test is not what you do with a five shot lead at a February Tournament with the hit and giggle crowd, but what you do tied or with a one shot lead at a major with Tiger or Retief crowding you.
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The sorry truth is the PGA Tour has become pretty much a big fat bore. A different "nobody" in contention, or winning every week (remember big bad J B Holmes?), is NOT good for the game. These "pretenders" can't seem to string along some wins, and they continue to fold whenever Tiger shows up....lets face it, they aren't that good, and the Ryder Cup tends to confirm that.
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"Furyk, Donald, Singh, Love, and DiMarco might beg to differ"
The only one in that bunch that has played ANY decent golf in the last 18 months is Furyk.....
Thats funny, I thought DiMarco did a great job at the Open, and give Tiger a run for his money most of the way on Sunday.
Donald won on the PGA tour last year and Vijay won the Mercedes just a few weeks back
If thats not playing decent golf to do that, then I guess your standards are terrificily high.
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The sorry truth is the PGA Tour has become pretty much a big fat bore. A different "nobody" in contention, or winning every week (remember big bad J B Holmes?), is NOT good for the game. These "pretenders" can't seem to string along some wins, and they continue to fold whenever Tiger shows up....lets face it, they aren't that good, and the Ryder Cup tends to confirm that.
Everyone folds when Tiger shows up. At least its saying something that these guys are making it interesting come Sunday when the big names have already missed the cut or faded on Saturday.
And since when are Vijay and Phil nobodies?
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Jay,
Attributing Phil's problems at Winged Foot mainly to his decision-making is overly simplistic in my view. He missed 12 out of 14 fairways in the final round, several by a mile. There's no guarantee that he would have been able to hit a 4-wood into that fairway with the swing he had that day. Whatever he played off that tee was a bit of a hit and hope shot under the circumstances.
By the way, Phil made a comment yesterday about how the USGA gods would have cringed at the thought of someone winning their championship while missing so many fairways in the final round. Thank the Lord for trees.
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Kalen...
2006 for the record...
VJ...27 events..1 first, 2 seconds...13 top 10's...17 top 25's...2 missed cuts and 10 times out of the top 25..
DiMarco....26 events, 1 second...2 top 10's...7 top 25's....10 missed cuts...this year a T-59th and a 61st...
Donald...18 events...1 first..10 top 10's..14 top 25's...1 missed cut...4 events finished out of top 25....
If you want excitment to return to the PGA Tour you need 4 or 5 guys to start competing, and swapping victories, week in and week out leading to show downs with Tiger in the Majors....for the last 18 months (for that matter the last 10 years)...with the brief exception of Phils little roll in the majors...it's been Tiger and "the rest of the field" going into the majors...yawn.
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Craig,
I too would love to see someone or several players give Tiger a better run for thier money, but it really is a testament to how well tiger is playing right now.
My only objection to your last thread was the use of the "ANY decent golf" statment. When you're piling up massive amounts of top 10s, thats playing damn good golf in my mind, because that means you're getting into contention a lot.
Sure no one else is playing great golf right now except Tiger, but its been this way for several years that Tiger has been on tour. And while you find Tigers dominance boring, the viewership numbers and ratings numbers don't. He is like Michael Jordan or Bird or Magic Johnson in their primes...never got sick of watching them.
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Jay,
Attributing Phil's problems at Winged Foot mainly to his decision-making is overly simplistic in my view. He missed 12 out of 14 fairways in the final round, several by a mile. There's no guarantee that he would have been able to hit a 4-wood into that fairway with the swing he had that day. Whatever he played off that tee was a bit of a hit and hope shot under the circumstances.
By the way, Phil made a comment yesterday about how the USGA gods would have cringed at the thought of someone winning their championship while missing so many fairways in the final round. Thank the Lord for trees.
Gotta disagree with you on that one Phil. he still had a nine iron back to the fairway, then up and down for the win, two putts for a playoff. Instead he fell victim to temptation...like he did before. I think the oversimplification is saying hitting driver was the problem. I agree he had no business hitting driver there, but it wasn't until he clocked the tree with the three iron that we heard the stroke of midnight.
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Jay,
Your point about the second shot is a good one. Nine-iron back to the fairway leaves winning in play and takes losing (other than in a playoff) out of play.
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Unless your monty and fan your shot into the green short and right and take double bogey. I still don't know why there isn't more talk about him. A bogey would have got him into a playoff, and a par would have won it. And to boot he was in the fairway, at least Phil has an excuse because he was off in the sticks!
He had it, but yet again he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory!
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Your point is good too though...he wasn't making good swings off the tee and was clearly "on fumes" after dropping that stroke and 16 and escaping so many times by the skin of his teeth.
You know what we ALL forget? That shot on the 5th where he tried to hit a fairway metal out of the rough and advanced the ball ten yards! Take that shot out and who knows what he would have done on 18...
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Jay...he's a pro...it was the 18th hole...what was he thinking? A "go for it" mistake on the 2nd hole or 7th hole or 5th hole, is one thing, but never on the 18th....unless you're behind.
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(If you want excitment to return to the PGA Tour you need 4 or 5 guys to start competing, and swapping victories, week in and week out leading to show downs with Tiger in the Majors....for the last 18 months (for that matter the last 10 years)...with the brief exception of Phils little roll in the majors...it's been Tiger and "the rest of the field" going into the majors...yawn.)
I guess when VJ took over #1 that wasn't in the last 10 years?? What was Tiger's excuse then? VJ pulvarized the tour that year!
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Tigers excuse, I believe, was his swing change and/or a slump...
Let's face it, the days of epic battles between the like of Palmer/Casper/Nicklaus/Player/Trevino/Watson may never be seen again.
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Jay...he's a pro...it was the 18th hole...what was he thinking? A "go for it" mistake on the 2nd hole or 7th hole or 5th hole, is one thing, but never on the 18th....unless you're behind.
Craig, he fell victim to temptation...maybe even desperation. He thought "OK I can save the day with one good shot." or "I'm not gonna blow this on the 72d hole."
...after he'd been stinking the joint up the two holes prior...
Shackelford is right...its temptation that makes for the most exciting golf. But you are right too when you say "he's a pro"...he's gotta know when he's in trouble. Even the Pittsburgh Steelers of the 70s had to punt the ball. Why not? They play great defense.
Well Phil plays great defense too. he gets up and down from all kinds of crazy places. Granted, that pin was in NO place to get up and down from 100 yards out. That was a murderous place to get up and down form from anywhere around that green, let alone 100 yards, but still...he would have taken six out of the equation and come back with a 50-50 shot.
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Let's face it, the days of epic battles between the like of Palmer/Casper/Nicklaus/Player/Trevino/Watson may never be seen again.
Craig--is your dislike of the current crop about nostalgia? I'm sure there were plenty of boring tournaments back in the day. Andy North, for chrissakes, won the US Open twice against the fellows you mention. Excuse me while I take a no-doz to stay up for that.
My question was WHY denigrate the field? Just to knock down Phil Mickelson, who's only won 30 events and $40 million ???
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ohhhh....so the reason VJ won all those events in that 1 1/2 year span was due to Tiger's slump and swing change......VJ had nothing to do with it??
I love it......nobody can beat Tiger because he is so good, but if he gets beaten, it was because of his swing change, slump, death in the family, etc, etc, etc....
what happened when he was tied for the lead in the final round at Royal St Georges that year....guess he had a slump in the last 5 holes or was it a swing change during the back nine.......oh I forget, it was a quirky setup by the R&A where true talent wasn't rewarded!
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Michael....I believe the excuse being used at the time, primarily by the media, was Tigers swing change...certainly VJ was playing some very good golf at the time....
As for Tigers abilities, his record speaks for itself....and certainly needs no defending by me...
If you truely think the week in and week out fields on the PGA Tour are worthy, please let me know when someone other than VJ or Phil wins more than twice this year....
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If VJ was great for that year and half...why is he not still tearing it up? Something happened......
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Unless your monty and fan your shot into the green short and right and take double bogey. I still don't know why there isn't more talk about him. A bogey would have got him into a playoff, and a par would have won it. And to boot he was in the fairway, at least Phil has an excuse because he was off in the sticks!
He had it, but yet again he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory!
I agree. Monty was the real f up that day.