Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Doug Wright on August 09, 2006, 11:41:32 AM
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This weekend in conjunction with the International, I'm playing in the "Saturday Series," where Tour pros who miss the cut play with us hackers the next day for the benefit of charities. On Friday night, there is a Q&A with some of these Tour pros. If you could ask these vagabonds who travel around the country/world doing this for a living a question, particularly with a GCA focus, what would it be?
If you give me any grist for the mill, I'll try to pose them and let you know. Thanks.
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Why on earth did you get married so young? ;D
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You're making an assumption they know anything about architecture? You'll be surprised how little some know.
I would ask your pro what his favorite courses are? Ask if they have ever heard of Crystal Downs or Fishers Island to better understand their knowledge.
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I like to know if any of them still have fun playing golf/
If not, when did the fun cease.
And if they wouldn't mind, thinking back to when they did have fun, what characteristics did the courses have that made it fun.
Then ask them if they have heard of that new course on the front range in N.E. Co.
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Whoa!
I was just about to type in "ask them if they play the game for fun any more"...
Great/feeble minds, Adam.
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"Imagine that you can play only one course for the rest of your life. Which course will you play -- and why?"
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Dan, I'd bet 99.9% of them say ANGC. But, I'd be interested in the answer of that .1% guy. ;) ;D
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RJD - well, Nicklaus for one answered Cypress Point to that very question....
Is that enough?
;)
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"What is your favorite course on tour to play, just for playing the course, regardless of purse, or major/invitation status?"
Follow-up: "Why?"
I suppose you could ask if they've played courses such as Sand Hills or NGLA or Pine Valley and ask what they thought of them.
Huck,
I could have sworn Nicklaus said that about Pebble.
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Let's be serious about what you might get an answer to.
"Are the women better in Dallas or in Phoenix?"
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"Huck,
I could have sworn Nicklaus said that about Pebble.
Could be. My recollections get worse by the day. In any case, the question has been asked and answered at least with Jack. ;D
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Doug
Just for Dan and Rose, please ask them how do you "read" a hole. I'd like to know too.
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I'd like to ask "given the following two choices, which would you prefer - to play classic courses as-is, using restricted or anachronistic equipment, or to play new, purpose-built designs created with the latest technology in mind?"
Taking out of the equation the "hacking up classic courses to make them produce higher scores given the current state of technology" option.
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8)
Are swing coaches crutches or just another part of the necessary support system to be successful these days?
Them that have, gets?
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I would ask -
"Would you rather go around a middle-of-the-road TPC course mashing it off the sweet spot like the awesome professional athlete that you are, or would you rather slash it around an oceanfront classic from the Golden Age like an internet chat room hacker?"
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C'mon, Michael
That's a no-brainer.....
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"Can you get me on Augusta?"
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Let's be serious about what you might get an answer to.
"Are the women better in Dallas or in Phoenix?"
JES,
:o This is probably a better question to ask (and get answered) during the pro-am round than in a public forum... ;D
Thanks for the ideas so far!
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Ask 'em if they've ever carried a 200 lb. high handicapper for 18 holes to victory at Black Mesa!
I'd be curious to know if they ever go overseas for fun golf.
Please share your playing experience in the pro-am as well.
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Do they support rolling back the ball? Do they think other pro's support that?
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I second Rich's question about reading a course. I'm always amazed at how well these guys play courses they've never seen before. They may not know much about golf course architecture by the book, but they sure get it on the ground. What features tell them where and how to hit it?
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Ask them if they would enjoy playing an unofficial event with just 10 or 8 clubs, and which clubs they would select.
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What's your opinion on Wie playing in PGA TOUR events?
(FYI - I was all in favor of Sorenstam, a hall of famer, playing Colonial)
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Why they are such babies and cry about things like furrowed bunkers. I hit out of them the other day with no problem and a decent amount of spin. I am a 12 handicap keep in mind. I don't understand it, the entire field has to hit out of the same exact bunkers whats not fair about that?
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Thanks for the replies. Some interesting questions and a few others (DCronan) ::) that may get lost on the cutting room floor. If I can't get them into the Q&A, I'll quiz my pros in the pro-am.
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What courses would they like to make part of the tour, either for majors or other PGA events?
Also -- who faced tougher competition, Jack or Tiger?
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Can you name golf's most beloved figure? ;D
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How many groupies do they get, on average, per year?
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Bump to see if the pros had anything interesting?
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Huck,
I could have sworn Nicklaus said that about Pebble.
He's been quoted as stating his favorite approach shot in golfdom is the 8th @ Pebble, but there's still 35 others to account for (plus putting) to make a whole course.
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An interesting couple of days. The Friday night “Ask the Pros” Q&A had the following pros: veteran Mike Hulbert, young gun Arjun Atwal, early 30s player Daniel Chopra and veteran Dave Rummells. Among the questions asked by me and others:
Q: What do you think about technology and in particular about rolling back the golf ball?
A: Daniel Chopra—it’s not so much about the technology as about the information we have now, the launch monitors and other measuring devices that allow us to match our swings to the equipment. I also don’t think the ball has much to do with it.
Nobody else in the Q&A tackled this one, but I did ask Boyd Summerhays, a young pro who was one of my pro-am partners (5 10” 170, he hits it a mile). He didn’t think it was a big deal—in fact he said technology was allowing the older guys like Jay Haas to stay with the younger guys. Paraphrasing slightly, he said, “It’s less of an advantage if both players are hitting short irons instead of mid irons.” Boyd also said it’s all about who can execute, not the equipment. From other questions and comments in the Q&A my conclusion from this small sample of players is that the Tour players are pretty indifferent to the equipment/ball issue. However, in response to a question about players doing more fitness conditioning, bigger, stronger players etc., there were some interesting GCA-related responses. Mike Hulbert said the way to combat today’s length (as he put it, “in addition to heavy rough”) was firm greens and wind. Daniel Chopra’s comments were more intriguing. He said, “We don’t want 9,000 yard courses. Architects should focus on green complexes as the principal defenses. Small, sloped greens create problems for any pros. Flat greens offer no challenge to us.”
Q: What do you think about Michelle Wie playing PGA tour events?
A: Several of the pros commented that they think Michelle should focus on winning on the LPGA first. Atwal said to a laugh from the crowd, “She should just kick ass on the ladies tour.” Hulbert said she should do everything she could to support the LPGA tour as she’s a huge draw. Chopra: “She has the capability to be the greatest woman golfer of all time. She’s wasting opportunities--it would be a shame if she’s 40 years old or so and a couple of victories shy of the all-time women’s mark and she could have earned those extra victories at age 16 or 17 by playing the women’s tour events.”
Q: What are your favorite tournaments/golf courses?
A: Several in the Q&A and the pro-am (my other pro-am partner was 1990s Tour regular—he won twice in 1994--and now journeyman Mike Springer) mentioned Pebble Beach, including both my pro-am partners. Boyd Summerhays said “Pebble isn’t that tough unless the wind’s up.” In addition to the Masters, several mentioned the Memorial as the tournament they most enjoy playing, it sounds like for the treatment they receive more than the golf course. Mike Hulbert and Charl Schwartzel, a young South African whom I met at lunch after the pro-am, mentioned Colonial as a golf course they like, and a couple also mentioned Westchester.
Q: Who was better, Jack or Tiger?
A: A couple of pros whom I asked this said Tiger—an incredible short game.
Q: Who should be the Captain’s picks for the Ryder Cup, and how can the US regain the Cup?
A: Chopra, who is of Swedish/Indian descent, said “Some really bad players since I’m from Europe” to a large laugh from the audience. Hulbert and Rummels commented that it would be good to have players with experience given the youth of the team such as Jay Haas or even Corey Pavin. [Who knows—if Lehman wins today he may be on it himself]
On regaining the Cup, Chopra said the US squad needs to "chill out," go have some beers together. He said the European team views the Ryder Cup as the most important event they play, and they approach it as a major rather than just another tournament.
A few other comments:
Mike Springer (who is a salty dog—expletives colored most everything he said) is designing a course outside his home town of Fresno with John Fought. It’s a city-owned course, and Mike’s first design effort. He said he’s really enjoying it. He said they did the routing “in a couple of days,” which surprised me. It sounds like an open piece of ground. He said they are moving quite a bit of dirt, but are creating wide fairways with preferred sides that will afford better visibility and/or angles, which sounds encouraging. He was surprised to hear of my interest in golf course architecture. I gave him a précis on GolfClubAtlas as the catalyst for my interest. I asked him if he knew of Tom Doak—not really. I mentioned Pacific Dunes and I don’t think he’s aware of that either. I asked him if he intends to do more design work and he said he wants to see how the Fresno project turns out.
Of all the Tour pros I met and heard from this weekend, I was very impressed with Daniel Chopra. Thoughtful, funny and even evincing some GCA savvy. Also from a brief meeting, Charl Schwartzel was impressive. Pleasant and a good young player (he finished T48 at the US Open and 20th at the British Open). He said he bogeyed 17 and 18 at Winged Foot and played a good 70 hole tournament there. When I said Phil Mickelson played a good 71 hole tournament, he said he couldn’t believe Phil Mickelson’s plays on 18. “Really dumb, he couldn’t find a fairway with driver and should have hit 4 iron,” he said. “Two really bad plays.” Of course the cynical among us would say, “Easy for you to say Charl. Get in the hunt in a major and we’ll see how you do.”
Both the pro-am pros used laser range finders. Boyd Summerhays' calculated both distance and elevation gain/loss. He said he uses it in practice rounds and it's a big help in preparing. Boyd's ballflight really reflects the new club fitting/launch monitor approach--the ball explodes off the club in a perfect boring trajectory. I hit his driver a couple times, and the ball flight difference between his driver and mine easily made a 20 yard difference. For the most part, these guys both hit it 40-50 yards past me. I'm not long but I've never thought I was a short hitter either. Summerhays is an impressive player, but he isn't a factor on the Tour. Bottom line--These Guys Are Good...
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Doug-
Thanx for the thread and most importantly, that comprehensive follow-up.
It isnt that shocking the tenor of the pros is that there are no problems with the sport. Their wages have seen exponential growth, in the same period as the perceived problems. How could they see a problem?
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Doug-
Thanx for the thread and most importantly, that comprehensive follow-up.
It isnt that shocking the tenor of the pros is that there are no problems with the sport. Their wages have seen exponential growth, in the same period as the perceived problems. How could they see a problem?
Adam,
I don't think any of them would say that there are "no problems." For example, one made a comment that the jury's out of the Fedex Cup, and in particular he thought some fine tournaments and their organizers/volunteers that had been supportive of the Tour years ago when it wasn't so big were being shunted aside. He was pretty critical of the Tour leadership's "money at all costs, screw the rest attitude."
By the way, I forgot to mention that Mike Springer said a couple of his favourite courses were TPC Avenal and TPC Hartford. So I guess he's not a classicist... :-X
And yes there's a lot of money to be made on Tour. But the two pros--one 40-something, the other 20-something--with whom I played have earned virtually zilch on Tour this year. It's a big pool but you gotta sink or swim every week.