Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Brian_Ewen on September 02, 2005, 11:24:50 AM
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I read somewhere that trailers were being shown for the upcoming release of "The Greatest Game Ever Played" .
Any thoughts ? .
I hope it does the book justice and does not end up like that awful 'Bobby Jones , Stroke of Genius' .
Best Regards
Brian
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http://adisney.go.com/disneypictures/greatestgame/
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Well all I can say is my daughter might deem it worthy of a viewing since Ouimet is played by the star of HOLES and the brother from EVEN STEVENS - Shia LeBouf. Hmmmm... maybe this will get her interested in golf?
I liked the trailer. Hope to get to see the movie.
But Brian - note there is a strong contingent here who felt the book sucked due to massive historical accuracies. Not me, mind you, I liked the book and enjoyed the story. But expect some ridicule of the movie in here no matter how it is....
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Tom Huckaby writes:
But Brian - note there is a strong contingent here who felt the book sucked due to massive historical accuracies.
Now why would anyone be upset about massive historical accuracies? I've brought up the numerous inaccuracies, but never once complained about the times he actually got details right.
Movies are always going to choose drama over accuracy, and many expect that in a movie. It is just surprising to see the same thing in a book that claimed it was non-fiction. I don't have the same problem with a movie based on real events as I would have on a non-fiction book.
I thought Shia LaBouf was good in that Project GreenLight season he was on.
Cheers,
Dan King
The way I look at it, there have been three perfectly pure putts in the history of golf. Boston's own Francis Ouimet's 20-footer at the 71st hole to lock up the U.S. Open at Brookline in 1913. Nicklaus' 18-footer at the 17th to take the lead for good in the 1986 Masters. And the brushstroke I put on my little Titleist late that morning on the 8th green at the Mayflower in Dorchester, Massachusetts.
--Raymond Lee Hart (better known as Sticks, from Rick Reilly's novel, "Missing Links")
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Dan, I lost my bet. I thought it would take you at least an hour to respond to this.
;D ;D ;D
And it has to be a comment of the ages that my frame of reference for young Shia is a kids' TV show and a kids' movie while yours is Project Greenlight, a show of which I have not the faintest clue.
;D
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Hollywood’s latest golf offering subpar
By Bill Huffman, For the Tribune
September 22, 2005
Even golf aficionados probably were not aware this is "Francis Ouimet Week’’ in Phoenix, as deemed by Mayor Phil Gordon in conjunction with the premiere of the movie "The Greatest Game Ever Played.’’
Chances are the mayor’s declaration is more about pomp than circumstance since many of the movie’s cast and principals were in his city Sunday night for the local debut of golf’s latest flick.
With that in mind, numerous members of the Arizona golf industry were invited to critique the movie at the AMC Esplanade 14 in Phoenix.
So what was the reaction to "The Greatest Game Ever Played?’’ Well, even though the Bill Paxton-directed film starring someone named Shia LaBeouf as Ouimet was quite entertaining from a technical standpoint, it was closer to a bogey than a birdie.
Granted, I’m no Craig Outhier, the Tribune movie critic whose reviews are usually right down the center of the fairway when it comes to accuracy. But I have seen the vast majority of movies based on the game of golf — perhaps all 10 or 12 of them — so I can compare "The Greatest" to, say, "Tin Cup’’ or "The Legend of Bagger Vance.’’
Apparently, my opinion of this Walt Disney Pictures-produced film was not shared by all, as the other three in our foursome Sunday night all rated it higher. The movie was based on Mark Frost’s book of the same title and positioned along similar story lines that have produced other successful Disney box-office winners like "Remember the Titans,’’ "The Rookie,’’ and "Miracle.’’
The film is the story of Ouimet, an immigrant kid who rises to win the 1913 U.S. Open against the likes of the legendary Harry Vardon, the only player to ever win the British Open six times.
Along the way, Ouimet overcomes his iron-fisted father, the snobbery of the game and Vardon.
We met — which is how you phonetically pronounce Ouimet — Paxton during a party prior to the screening. Paxton knew one member of our foursome of amateur critics from their past days at Whispering Palms Golf Club in Rancho Santa Fe, Calif.
"It’s a movie that (golfers) will appreciate, and women will love,’’ said Paxton, who is better known as an actor for his roles in such films as "Apollo 13,’’ "Tombstone,’’ and "Weird Science."
We also met Frost, whose previous claim to fame came as a writer for the hit TV series "Hill Street Blues.’’ Frost said the movie was a "time machine’’ dating back to when "the athlete was a role model, which is not always the case in America these days.’’
Both Paxton and Frost were center-cut with their explanations of what to expect. Now, the question became, did the chemistry of the actors and plot in "The Greatest" work in a way that left people as moved as they were after watching "The Rookie?’’
Well, one of our foursome did cry — and clap! — at the conclusion. But the best comment came from the other female member of the foursome, who said of "The Greatest": "If it came down to buying a movie ticket or renting the DVD, I’d wait for the rental.’’
The biggest hurdle the movie will have to overcome is if you’re not a golfer, it’s hard to relate.
That, and LaBeouf didn’t look like a golfer who had the game to win the U.S. Open, as the swing was even less athletic than Jim Caviezel’s attempt at imitating Bobby Jones in "Stroke of Genius.’’ It’s just hard to imagine someone with a swing worse than Matt Damon’s ("Legend of Bagger Vance’’) winning the national championship.
Because of my familiarity with the subject, I knew the ending, so there needed to be more development of characters and plot, and there wasn’t.
In fact, had it not been for Ouimet’s 10-year-old caddie, Eddie Lowery (Josh Flitter), the film would have been a double bogey. But Eddie, who was a dead ringer for the Spanky character in the old "Our Gang’’ series, manages to get off some entertaining one-liners during the heat of the Open.
Stephen Dillane ("The Hours,’’ "Angels in America‘’) also does a very stand-up job as Vardon, but like the rest of the supporting cast is a victim of his character being underdeveloped.
The best part of the movie was the technological advancements in the way golf shots were visually portrayed. Uncharted ground was found via computerized camera angles that began down in the rough, or were viewed as the ball rocketed through the trees. At one point, the viewer even goes inside the ball — Be the ball! — to witness the vibrations of the rubber bands as they are struck and stretched to the max.
Which got me thinking: Why don’t the networks try this stuff when they’re at the Masters or U.S. Open? Then again, a golf-ball cam probably is years away.
Unfortunately, "The Greatest’’ also is a little hard to get a grip on, even the Vardon grip. How it will do at the box office remains to be seen, although with a potential audience of 27.4 million golfers in America alone, and more than 600,000 in Arizona, "The Greatest’’ might not end up buried in a bunker.
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I'm looking forward to the movie. I thought that book was excellent, but I treated it as a sort of quasi-historical fiction. As said in the above posts, it was flawed. Still was a great read.
Did anybody read the book Grand Slam by the same author? I found it odd that he refered to O.B. Keeler as Pops, when every other book that I read, called him O.B.
When will they make a true accurate golf movie? The only movies that I think qualify as true golf movies are Tin Cup and Caddyshack.
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I've seen the movie (premiere last week) and read the book. The obvious remains obvious...the book is better.
However, the movie really was very decent and enjoyable. Neither too great an artistic license was given nor taken(the author wrote the screenplay as well)...it is a wonderful family-level style movie that accurately tells the Ouimet triumph and doesn't fall prey to the usual sappy and stupid storytelling that has long plagued golf movies.
Two Clubs up!
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Tom Huckaby said;
"But Brian - note there is a strong contingent here who felt the book sucked due to massive historical accuracies."
TomH:
I too have noticed there are some on here who have a real problem with historical accuracy. They tend to just make stuff up and go to great lengths to try to pass if off as historically accurate. Did you know, for instance, that Horace Hutchinson should be considered the "Father" of golf architecture and that the great "Golden Age" should be renamed "Arts and Crafts architecture"? ;)
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I read somewhere that trailers were being shown for the upcoming release of "The Greatest Game Ever Played" .
Any thoughts ? .
I hope it does the book justice and does not end up like that awful 'Bobby Jones , Stroke of Genius' .
Best Regards
Brian
Brian:
Have not seen the movie but those that have said it is ok and that there is a fair amount of Hollywood license with some of the facts. The trailers I've seen make the movie seem pretty interesting.
Best
Dave
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I had the pleasure of sitting next to the British actor who played Ted`Ray in the movie on a recent flight from Toronto to LA. He mentioned that they did take some poetic license in respect to what really happened in 1913. -ie in the movie Ted Ray does not play the last 5 holes in the playoff as he was out of contention-which sucks IMHO. We also discussed the course where the exteriors were filmed -Kanawaki in Montreal. I still look forward to seeing it.
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Paxton, the director, was on t.v. this morning relating stories of shagging balls for Hogan when he was a kid at Shady Oaks.(?).
He did say the aspect he tried to get over to the audience was how serious these guys were about the sport. Referencing "Tombstone" and "Star Wars" as films that he watched to try to help convey his story, over other golf movies.
I too look forward to seeing the film, which I can honestly not remember feeling or saying about any film for a longtime.
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A.O. Scott in the NY Times reviews the film today.
This is some of what he said:
"The three days of the climactic match in Brookline, Mass., are telescoped into about 45 minutes of screen time, and the quiet, pastoral rhythms of the game are speeded up and digitally tweaked for maximum visual and sonic impact. Tee shots are run together in swift montage, so that the game starts to resemble ice hockey al fresco, and the impact of club on ball rocks the theater like the explosion of a small bomb. Thanks to computer-generated special effects, the audience often experiences a shot from the perspective of the ball itself, and at one point an animated ladybug alights on its dimpled surface just before a drive."
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Film rates a 66% "freshness scale" on rottentomatoes.com. A good site to get a lot of reviews of every movie.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/greatest_game_ever_played/
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I just put up some new photographs of Francis Ouimet both at the US Open as well as playing twenty years later in tournaments around the greater Boston area. My website: www.i-concepts.org (click on golf history). These photographs are all from the collections of the Boston Public Library and most of them have not been available previously. This past weekend the golf section of the website got an incredible amount of traffic...even more than the Red Sox!
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I actually liked the movie - especially how it portrayed Vardon as a Jersey Lad who was subject to a lot of the same caste-oriented discrimination as Ouimet.
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It's a very good movie. I saw it Sunday evening.
All characters have a believable golf swing--a rarity in golf movies. The screenplay is consistent with the book--another rarity.
The actor portraying Ouimet actually behaves like I imagined Francis would behave. (That doesn't suggest it's historically accurate--just consistent with my prejudices.) The actor portraying Eddie Lowery (spelling?) was hilarious. (Aside: Of historical golf figures, Eddie Lowery is in my personal top five of people I wish I'd met or played golf with.)
The golf action sequences are excellent. The special effects complement the action superbly. It's simply fun to watch. I wanted to rewind the sequences and play them again.
It's a very enjoyable film (and book). This will definitely make the DVD library at home.
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I'm getting nervous...has another GOOD golf movie, besides Caddyshack, actually been made?
Tin Cup would have made the cut if not for the asinine ending......although Renee Russo made it a close call ;)
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My wife and older son, both non-golfers, really enjoyed the movie, which was suprising to me. So I look forward to seeing it, and if the swings are credible as Carlyle points out it will be that much better.
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I too enjoyed the movie (not as good as the book, but that is rather a common comment with most movies made from books)--
Must comment on a few of the inevitable technical glitchs:
1- Vardon does not grip the club with an overlap grip in the movie-
2- Caddies did not use yardage cards of the course in 1913
3- Bunkers were not tractor raked and machine edged in 1913 nor were rough lines machine cut-
4- Hole by hole scores were not posted on scoreboards until much later (at least that is what I have been told)--
I doubt however that most movie goers are going to be very concerned with those "defects".
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As far as inaccuracies go, how about the stymie - I thought that was only done in match play.
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Dan - it would appear that the book and the movie have it correct showing stymies being played in stroke play in 1913 in the US. See this link, which proves that a quick search on yahoo (or google) can find anything one wants in this life:
http://www.ruleshistory.com/green.html#stymie
;D
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People often criticise the swings of actors, but I wonder how often they've actually seen the swings of the golfers in the past. There were plenty of great champions prior to the robo-pro age of the last 15 years of so who had swings that were not terribly artistic.
Having said that, it's still disappointing to me that Hollywood takes liberties with stories that are tremendous in their own right. I just read a review of the Roger Bannister movie that ESPN produced and is airing on Thursday - a coach was added, as well as a love interest.
It's a shame - I guess everyone finds real life pretty boring.
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... it's still disappointing to me that Hollywood takes liberties with stories that are tremendous in their own right. I just read a review of the Roger Bannister movie that ESPN produced and is airing on Thursday - a coach was added, as well as a love interest.
Two different people, I hope!
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But Brian - note there is a strong contingent here who felt the book sucked due to massive historical accuracies. Not me, mind you, I liked the book and enjoyed the story. But expect some ridicule of the movie in here no matter how it is....
I don't know if the historical inaccuracies (whatever they are) would make a difference to me. I absolutely loved the story told in the book. I particularly liked the story of how Harry Vardon became the foremost golfer of the world including his difficult background. Where fate led him late in his career to Brookline to face a complete unknown with similar obstacles when he was facing declining skills. To a young man, like Francis Ouimet, with incredible character that anyone would like to have in their own friend or son. Ouimet simply loved the game, but to whom it was still a game. There is much to admire in the telling of the story. I hope the movie went beyond the game of golf as the book did.
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Dan - it would appear that the book and the movie have it correct showing stymies being played in stroke play in 1913 in the US. See this link, which proves that a quick search on yahoo (or google) can find anything one wants in this life:
http://www.ruleshistory.com/green.html#stymie
;D
Tom-- That is correct--If you watch Bobby Jones marvelous lesson films a great deal of footage is devoted to shots over and around the stymie, which was a part of both match and stroke play until at least the 30s.
As an interesting sidelight, most the scorecards of the day and the USGA Rulesbook are 6 inches long to create a handy means to measure the stymie distance
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Bette and I really enjoyed the movie...not a masterpiece, but all in all it was excellent for a golf movie.
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I had been avoiding this thread till I had seen the movie, which I did last night....a very enjoyable event shared not only by me but my non-golfing companion who enjoyed it immensly .....her only previous experience was 5 days spent in Detroit at the last Ryder cup.....god love her ::)
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(http://www.ouimet.org/images/ed_fred_large.jpg)
My favorite golf portrait. (Framed on my wall)
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It's a good golf movie...
Best moments for me: third round in the rain...
No golf shots really shown, just the players faces and reactions, the rain and a emotional music...
If you ever played a match in pouring rain, that's exactly how it feels...
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Very good movie.
Both my wife and I enjoyed it.
Vardon was portrayed as a perfect gentleman.
Based on how he was reflected in the movie I am going to see about picking up some books either written by or about Mr. Vardon.
-Ted
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Vardon was portrayed as a perfect gentleman.
Based on how he was reflected in the movie I am going to see about picking up some books either written by or about Mr. Vardon.
Then you'll want to pick up the book that the movie was based upon. Perhaps there will be a sequel to the movie based on the details of Vardon's life that they omitted from the book. They probably had to avoid some of the book's observations about Vardon. Otherwise, the audience would have been confused about whom to pull for in the movie.
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I liked it too, I like the kid actor in Holes and the Disney show he had (hey, I have kids) .
I'd love to see a movie about Lloyd Mangrum and the tough life of golfers of his era making ends meet. Heck, a movie about Texas golfers and why they rose to the top of the PGA would be work, too. I’ll start the outline and rough draft. Who will Johnny Depp play?