Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Anthony_Nysse on March 14, 2005, 09:33:58 PM
-
Gentleman,
Looking for any info-know it's a Gil Hanse course with the traditional look....know you boys know a great deal about the place. Any info would be great. Thanks
Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
-
Not sure what info you want. It is a very good course. Few trees, nice clubhouse and fun place to play. It is generally in good condition with bent greens and fairways--don't know the strain (L93 ?)
-
Tony,
It's a course that I like more and more each time I play. Gil Hanse course that opened up about 2-3 years ago. It is not on a great piece of property, sort of surrounded by houses, the land was originally supposed to be an office park and the developers had already done the preliminary work, so part of that detracts from the course.
There are some really good holes out there and Applebrook's website has a great hole by hole. It's an expensive membership, and it is pretty much the 2nd club to most of the people, offshoots of Aronimink, Chester Valley, as well as Merion and some others.
Walking only. Does not get a lot of play. Its probably my favorite Hanse course in Philly, over Inniscrone and French Creek. There are some really great green complexes as well.
There is at least one member that posts on here every now and then.
It's about a half a mile away from my home club, White Manor and is close to Waynesborough, Aronimink, Chester Valley and Overbrook among others.
Jason
-
Jason nailed most of it. What struck me was the way it fits into the area courses. It is different, but not goofy different. Some of the par threes are superb.
-
Its as good a new course as any I have played over the past 5 years, and that group includes Pacific and Bandon Dunes, Dallas National, Kingsbarns, Barona and Stevinson Ranch, amongst others.
It will age well and (rightfully) get more recogniition over time.
-
It's a wonderful golf course, very unique, very fun. Rich's statement is a tall one indeed given some of those comparators, but he's not wrong. Applebrook is that good. I'm not sure it will ever get the recognition some of those others do, due to far less people getting to see it, but here's hoping, as it sure does deserve it.
TH
-
I wonder whether most of the members prefer it to their primary course. That tells you something about the quality of golf courses south and west of Philadelphia.
-
Like all of Gil's courses Applebrook looks fantastic in photos. I can't wait to visit in person.
The clubhouse looks really neat too.
-
Check out:
http://www.applebrookgolfclub.com/
Here is view of the 11th hole, from behind the green looking back toward the tee. One of the best short par 3's you'll see:
(http://www.applebrookgolfclub.com/images/hole11_lrg.jpg)
A view of the driveable par 4, 3rd hole from the fairway. The hole is a slight dogleg right, and the green sits in a bowl and is blind from the tee. This is a very fun short par 4, the golfer can attempt to drive the green or lay up. For the player who chooses to lay up, they must navigate around a deep Pot type bunker in the middle of the fairway landing area.
(http://www.applebrookgolfclub.com/images/MH_hole3_lrg.jpg)
Applebrook has quickly become one of my favorite courses in the Philadelphia area. There is great variety to the design. A good mix of both long and short holes, excellent par 3's, challenging greens, and some outstanding bunkering, both strategically and visually.
-
I love the look of the clubhouse and the use of the second floor for guest rooms....does anybody know what the rate is to stay in one of the rooms..
-
My strongest memories of the course are:
- the way the fairways meld into the greens;
- the way the greens meld into the tees;
- the ha ha;
and the skyline greens.
I never really understood why it doesn't get more discussion on here.
-
My strongest memories of the course are:
- the way the fairways meld into the greens;
- the way the greens meld into the tees;
- the ha ha;
and the skyline greens.
I never really understood why it doesn't get more discussion on here.
Those are my strongest memories as well... oh that and Tom Paul walking and watching, not playing... damndest thing I've ever seen... ;)
But what's "ha ha"?
As for why it's not discussed more, it's simple: damn few people have actually played it. And even for those who have, well... it tends to fall in tough geographic company.
TH
-
Tom
A "haha" is a sunken fence. I knew this from crossword puzzle competitions before I encountered a real one at Applebrook. You were walking on air at the time and missed it...... ;)
-
Rich:
That's a good word to know for scrabble as well. ;D
BTW, I wasn't walking on air at Applebrook nearly as much as at other places on that trip. ;D I believe I was grounded quite well... and I do remember the sunken fence. I just don't recall anyone calling it that.
-
An interesting comparison is between Applebrook and French Creek. Both Hanse, both local, both within a few years of each other in construction. The main thing I noticed was the "fit and finish" of Applebrook versus French Creek. French Creek is newer, but I sense less money is committed to maintenance,which makes sense to me ,since Applebrook ,I think, has a more upscale membership.
The main similarity to me is the "humor " that Hanse seems to bring to his designs. The driveable par four shown on this thread from Applebrook is an example. You can drive it, but it is a blind landing area and the green has significant undulation. He seems to be playing with you.
As Dan Herrmann has shown us , the short par four at French Creek is also hysterical. Watching what happens when you go right at the green is a blast.
-
According to the website, memberships are available.I thought the club was at full membership capacity. Is this a limited partnership membership, a la Stonewall and Lookaway?
www.applebrookgolfclub.com
-
Steve,
Yes, it is an LLP like Stonwall, which I hear is also looking for members.
Jason
-
Mike,
You're absolutely right about the maintenance, and that's being remedied. The management had our Superintendant out harvesting native rocks for the clubhouse and doing clubhouse-area landscaping.
They've now purchased 'real' mowing and top-dressing equipment, rollers, etc. They'd been using old cheap stuff during grow-in, the thinking being that rock pops and other nasties would just ruin good new equipment.
There are some drawbacks to non-equity, and this was one. But I think we're on the right track now.
-
Applebrook is a wonderful, fun, challenging golf course well-described above, but I wish they could blow up 9 & 18 and start over.
The clubhouse/waterfall finishing holes dramatics was a concession to the owners wishes and we know how that often goes.
-
Mike,
I don't know the specifics regarding the waterfall, etc. But I happen to like the 9th and 18th holes :)
9 is a good little par 3 and 18 is a strong par 4 in my opinion.
The waterfall is there but it never comes into play, does it? Unless im forgetting something.
Jason
-
Jason,
My comments are almost purely from an aesthetic viewpoint, although I think 9 is a little weak from a functional standpoint, as well.
You have this very traditional looking golf course on a beautiful, rural, Chester county horse-country site, with all sorts of fun, congruous elements like "hahas" and the like, and then you turn to come home and you are greeted with Gil's version of "Magic Mountain", that looks like something that came from Rees & Fazio. ::) ;D
-
I admit that I'm a Gil fan, being a member at French Creek. But I was blown away when we played Applebrook yesterday.
It's a fun, challenging, unique, and great golf course.
We had a completely enjoyable day out there, and the architecture made it even that much better.
Other than the waterfall, it was a great traditional layout in that was truely in the minimalist vein.
I highly suggest you check out Applebrook if ever given the chance!
(we played in 3 hours, walking, with a caddie - now That's great golf!)
-
I liked 9 and 18, so what do I know? :P
-
Correct - the waterfall doesn't come into play at all.
And I like 9 and 18 too, but I don't know if I could reach 18 green in two, with the elevation gain. 18 is one tough Par 4.
9 has great countouring in the green surface.
-
Dan,
What are the similarities and differences between the two fine Hanse efforts-- here and French Creek?
-
Mike,
For starters I would say the MAINTENANCE BUDGET ;D
I happen to like Applebrook better. I don't neccesarily think the property is better but I like the overall feel of the place. There are some really, really good holes out there.
Jason
-
Mike,
Obviously, Applebrook has more funds in their maintenace budget, and it shows. When you look at the initiation fee of FC vs. Applebrook, you can see where the funds come from. And that's OK - both are built on different economic models.
But concitioning @ FC is definitely getting better - I think our ownership saw the deficiencies and is working hard to address them. I've seen marked improvement this year - better equipment, better maintenance staffing, etc.
I think that Gil had better ground for golf at Applebrook - not as many forced carries (I only remember one, and even that one wasn't too bad) or long walks. In fact, I loved how the green --> tee walks were so short. The following teeing area often melded seamlessly from the prior green - very nicely done.
Obviously, Gil had some significant environmental regulatory issues when building FC, and that's why you see it as 3 "islands" of golf. Island "A" is holes 1-2-3-9-10-16-17-18. Island "B" is 11-12-13-14-15. Island "C" is 4-5-6-7-8.
French Creek was obviously a lot more hilly and probably more difficult to build. Interestingly, I think that leaves FC with a more visually pleasing golf course, but Applebrook with the better overall layout.
But we could easily tell that Applebrook was a Gil Hanse design. Some of the flows of the green surfaces reminded me of holes at FC - not that they were duplicates, but you could tell that they were designed in the same vein. Both have a short/quirky/fun hole (FC #15 and Applebrook #3). Both have really a super set of par threes.
But best of all, both are courses that I'd love to play over and over. There is no opportunity for boredom at either course.
I also liked how Gil's As-Builts were framed and hung in the clubhouse between the pro shop and the locker rooms. Shows to me that the membership "gets" golf architecture.
Personally, I feel that Applebrook is a fantastic golf course that should be considered to be in the top tier of Philly area courses. Hopefully, with TLC and time, FC will grow into the same tier - we aren't there yet, but we're making progress :)
-
Dan,
I am glad you mentioned the tee to green relationships and the forced carries as differences. However, I would add that as a result of the hills, that FC has some more challenging shots than Applebrook.
I also agree that what I call Gil's "sense of humor" exists at both places. FC is a wonderful place to play for you guys in the "ruburbs" (my father-in-law's expression).
-
Judging from the aerial, it seems Gil amalgamated the tee and green complexes on numerous occasions at Applebrook. This is rarely seen because of the obvious safety concerns it poses, but if a private club is to have little play, then this certainly contributes greatly to the flow and feel of the golf course.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=100+line+road,+malvern,+pennsylvania&ll=40.002208,-75.530480&spn=0.005944,0.007510&t=k&hl=en
(you must cut & paste url to properly link to aerial)
???
TK
-
Tyler - you're absolutely correct. It was a great experience walking less than thirty yards on fairway length grass to the next tee. In fact, the 'fringe' of the green led seamlessly to the next teeing area.
Pretty cool stuff.
Gil does some neat things with teeing areas. FC's #1 doesn't have any dedicated teeing area, and our #17 has it's back tee almost at a 45 degree angle to the desired playing line.
-
This is the most recent thread I could find on Applebrook and it is three years old. Does anyone have an update on the course or played there recently? I had never heard of it until I started looking to fill out a trip this weekend/next week with a round on Monday, when most other clubs are closed. Applebrook seems to be very much worthy of playing. Correct? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Ed
-
Ed,
I'm not familiar with your tastes but Glen Mills is a more intriguing idea than Applebrook by a small margin. Since it is public Monday is no problem.
-
I'd say it is more than worthy of playing. In fact, it would be great if you did and then started a new thread sharing your thoughts and experiences. :)
-
Mike, thanks for the suggestion. I am undecided as to whether I will do 36 at Applebrook or try to play both there and at Glen Mills.
George, I'll see what I can do. No doubt I will be far less capable in that endeavor than many others on this site.
Ed
-
One thing that may sway things: I can't imagine many courses are better walks than Applebrook. To my recollection, almost every tee was situated right next to the previous green.
-
I think it's the best Philly new course. Better than Stonewall and Galloway; maybe equal to Hidden Creek. Lots of fun; fair; nice walk; lots of variety; great shape. Hard to believe Hanse built Applebrook and Inniscrone (arguably the worst new course in Philly).
-
Ed, for me it's an easy choice - Applebrook.