Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: A.G._Crockett on August 20, 2004, 08:18:58 PM
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Here is the Golf Magazine list of the 50 best U.S. courses that you can play for $50 or less.
1. Old Works, Anaconda, MT
2. Hawktree, Bismarck, ND
3. Gray Plantation, Lake Charles, LA
4. Wild Horse, Gothenburg, NE
5. Willinger's GC, Northfield, MN
6. Pinon Hills, Farmington, NM
7. Santa Ana (Tamaya/Cheena course) Santa Ana Pueblo, NM
8. Rock Hollow, Peru, IN
9. The Links of North Dakota, Williston, ND
10. Gold Mt., Olympic Course, Bremerton WA
11. Black Mesa, La Mesilla, NM
12. Big Mountain, Kalispell, MT
13. The Links at Hiawatha Landing, Apalachin, NY
14. Texarkana Golf Ranch, Texarkana, TX
15. Valley View, Layton, UT
16. Northwood, Rhinelander, WI
17. Old Silo, Mt. Sterling, KY
18. Red Hawk Run, Findlay, OH
19. Chickasaw Pointe, Kingston, OK
20. The Summit, Cannon Falls, MN
21. Piper Glen, Springfield, IL
22. Twisted Gun, Wharncliffe, WV
23. The Rawls Course, Lubbock, TX
24. Amana Colonies, Amana, IA
25. The GC at Fleming Island, Orange Park, FL
26. Oglebay Resort (Jones Course), Wheeling, WV
27. Riverdale (Dunes), Brighton, CO
28. Rustic Canyon, Moorpark, CA
29. Prairie Highlands, Olathe, KS
30. Lassing Pointe, Union, KY
31. The Moors, Milton, FL
32. The Tennessean, Paris, TN
33. Tokatee, McKenzie Bridge, OR
34. Devil's Thumb, Delta, CO
35. Spirit Hollow, Burlington, IA
36. Buffalo Dunes, Garden City, KS
37. Draper Valley, Draper, VA
38. Aldeen, Rockford, IL
39. The Fort, Indianapolis, IN
40. Eaglesticks, Zanesville, OH
41. Yankee Trace (Championship Course), Centerville, OH
42. Pacific Grove, Pacific Grove, CA
43. Southern Hills, Hawkinsville, GA
44. Buffalo Run, Commerce City, CO
45. Wailua, Lihue, HI
46. Radisson Greens, Baldwinsville, NY
47. Stonebridge, Rome, GA
48. Big Creek, Mountain Home, AK
49. Papago, Phoenix, AZ
50. Shennecossett, Groton, CT
Thanks to Golf Magazine the list of affordable places to play. Several questions for the treehouse:
1. How many have you played? (Only two in my case :( )
2. Name one course you would add (no need to delete one!).
(Cateechee, $39 to walk, $50 to ride weekdays LEAPS to mind here in GA.)
3. Are any close enough to you that you can't believe you haven't played them yet?
(Southern Hills in Hawkinsville, GA, but I already have an angle figured out to get there next March.)
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Grand total of 3 here, due mostly to the fact that the list is made of courses in the Midwest/Western states. Of the list, I've played Hiawatha Landing, Rustic Canyon, and Valley View.
I'd recommend any of them if you're in the area, particularly RC.
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I actually played the Tennesseean today (#32). Course opened about 5 years ago to some very high praise, so I guess that is why it is on the list. I think if Golf Mag saw the condition of the course today, no way it makes any list.
If maintained at all, course could be really special. Great greens (that are still actually in good shape), deep bunkering, and some really funky fairway bumps and mounding. But is in serious need of TLC. Keith Foster was the architect of the course.
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I've played six of those courses but the majority of them are in states I have never even golfed in.
I would definitely add Lawsonia. Other than Rustic Canyon the closest course to me is 355 miles away.
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again, where is Tobacco Road?? $29-49 right now. And how much does a plane ticket & rental car cost to get to some of these places??
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again, where is Tobacco Road?? $29-49 right now. And how much does a plane ticket & rental car cost to get to some of these places??
Brian,
Is TR really that cheap still? I haven't been there in several years, and just assumed that it was more expensive. If it is $50 or less, it goes immediately to the top of the list.
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A.G. those are summer rates, but yes, they are still in effect.
I sit at work most days debating if I should skip a 2pm meeting or make the 40min. drive down to TR for the $29/rate.
If you can stand the heat, golf in the Sandhills in the summers is VERY affordable (except Pinehurst....)
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Brian/AG
That's amazing. One of the easily most fun courses on the planet, and it's only $29 right now!!
Brian, skip that 2 PM meeting ;)
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I've got 8 of those notches. Additions that come to mind are the El Diablo in Citrus co. Fl.
The respective placements, I could take issue with, but won't.
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Adam,
First thing I thought of when I saw the list was to ask you if PH is really that much better then the Rawls course. But, I really don't know if it's just a list or is supposed to be some sort of ranking. If it is a true ranking there's some very high quality courses out there for under $50, with 27 of 'em better then RC.
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I've got four -- Black Mesa 11, Rustic Canyon 28, The Moors (right here next to Pensacola, good call) 31, Tokatee 33.
Where are the good courses on the Robert Trent Jones Trail in Alabama? Sherling/Canyon at Greenville, super stuff. Links and Lake at Auburn-Opelika, poor man's Augusta. These are solid courses, not goofy like some on the RTJ Trail, and what a bargain!
Glad to see Tokatee on there, even if it IS a T Robinson!
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22. Twisted Gun, Wharncliffe, WV http://www.twistedgungolf.com (http://www.twistedgungolf.com)
Twisted Gun is a project of Arch Coal in McDowell County, West Virginia. The site of the golf course is a reclaimed strip mine and has the honor of becoming the first golf course in easily the poorest, most undulating county in West Virginia. Really a great addition to the state.
(http://www.twistedgungolf.com/clover1.jpg)
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Eight courses for me. This is a pretty good list and certainly diverse geographically.
Bill McBride, I think they got the RTJ Trail just about right. Of course by NASCAR standards those layouts do have great cart paths.
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Where is Southern Pines GC? It's something like $28 in season and there's always the outside chance that you'll get paired with Golf's Most Beloved.
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Re: Papago in PHX at #49
www.azcentral.com/sports/golf/reviews/0404papago0404.html
This muni course is need of serious work. It's a great value but the city has let this course deteriorate. It's high rating must be based solely on reputation. There is a civic movement to put private money into this course to restore it. Let's see what happens.
Papago and Cobbs Creek in Philadelphia are 2 munis that need a serious influx of money a la Bethpage, Harding Park, Torrey Pines, Houston Memorial, etc.
Steve
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Its good to see "fly over" country get its props. Heck, most of these could be considered hidden gems to this group, as I'm not sure that most of the regulars here can even name a state not on a coast let alone have actually played golf in one. ;)
Cheers,
Brad Swanson
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AG,
Being we designed and built both Cateechee and Southern Hills, I would agree that Cateechee should be on the list if Southern Hills is. It iis a definite bargain considering clubhouse and all amenities. They just don't promote it.
Mike
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Just a clarification...this list is for courses anyone can play for $50 or less at peak green fee. That's why Bethpage, Tobacco Road, World Woods, Southern Pines, Paa-Ko Ridge, Grand National, etc. are not on the list.
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Pete,
Thanks for the clarification; I should have read more carefully, obviously!
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Of the list, I have played Wild Horse and Hawktree. I would put them in that order also. No way HT is a better golf course than WH.
Brian does make great mention about cheap golf in NC during the summer, though. When we went in June, we played Legacy, MidPines, Tobacco Road, Southern Pines and Raliegh CC for just over $200 total. Pretty good considering the TWILIGHT fee at #1 is $80. Rediculous!! ???
Some really good courses in NE that should get mention here are Woodland Hills and Highlands (both Brauer, near Lincoln) and Arbor Links in Nebraska City.
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I've played one, Tokatee, from when I lived in Oregon, basically what this list is saying is that if you live in the Middle Atlantic and don't feel like driving 200 miles to WV you are pretty much screwed, maybe there should be regional lists of 25 courses to provide guides to people in specific sections of the country, it seems the Mid-Atlantic got left out of this one.
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Just one for me, The Links at Hiawatha Landing. An excellent Brian Silva course with some holes along the Susquehanna river. Not a lot of river views, but it's really a gorgeous setting.
The name and the web site play up the "links" nature of the course. I'll leave that argument for another thread, but I will say that the setting is different than your average US course. When I played there in the summer of 2002, the fescue had grown so tall that they were considering declaring it all a hazard.
They have some nice photos on their web site. This is the 10th hole:
(http://www.hiawathalinks.com/images/Hiawatha10.jpg)
This is the "signature" 17th hole, a par 3 with water on the left:
(http://www.hiawathalinks.com/images/Hole%2017.jpg)
The 18th is a great par 5; a sharp dogleg left with water all along the left.
As a bonus, you can visit the famous "mob house" while you're there:
(http://communitypress.crosswinds.net/1997/12-97/mob-1.JPG)
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Dale,
Sorry this post didn't appear sooner or I could have saved you the time/effort/expense of playing The Tennessean. Easily the worse conditioned course I've played in recent years - no doubt owing to the fact that it is extremely remote and appears to be the cornerstone of a housing development that was ill-conceived (I counted two new homes, total).
That's a shame because the green contours are fantastic fun and some of the fairway contouring, while bold, is well done. I thought the work spoke highly for Foster, but absent some good money chasing bad, conditions are unlikely to improve.
Mike
Mike
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This article has a major glaring mistake that Matt Ward certainly views as vindication.
Any course that can be played for $38 by over 10 million local residents should be included, especially when it is ranked as the #3 course on the top 100 - Bethpage Black.
Both articles and the list cite the cost at $78 and up - it isn't. Residents of New York State can play it for $38 & so it should be valued as such. I know I will be in the minority in this issue because the article is written towards all in the U.S., but I feel there is a real difference in this case. This isn't a course where those in the village play it for next to nothing. It is the vast majority of rounds that are played at $38 because of the dumb reservation system. Without it I would say list it at the higher number; as it is, it is cklearly the greatest course that can be played for under $50!
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Any course that can be played for $38 by over 10 million local residents should be included, especially when it is ranked as the #3 course on the top 100 - Bethpage Black.
Philip- I've been under the impression that because of the srewed-up system, those 10m couldn't play there. :)
However, the glaring statistical anomially is the sign that reads how one needs to be an accomplished golfer to play the Black.
How many of those 10m fit that category?
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On the thrifty side Rustic Canyon deserves to be in the top five given the nature of what is generally charged for the slop that calls itself golf for much of SoCal.
Rustic is truly remarkable for what it provides and for how little it charges.
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This has to be the hardest type of list to put together. Given the responses here, there aren't many whose play-list overlaps. Given that, I'm not sure how you rate one guy's favorite against another guy's. I'm a little surprised that there aren't ANY courses from Michigan on the list
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I have played two and 1/2 (back nine at Pacific Grove). In looking at the above posts, some have played a few more, but not many more. Just shows how difficult it is to rank courses. This is a pretty active group in seeking out good courses, and we haven't played many.
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On the thrifty side Rustic Canyon deserves to be in the top five given the nature of what is generally charged for the slop that calls itself golf for much of SoCal.
Rustic is truly remarkable for what it provides and for how little it charges.
In the face of economic reality, perhaps GCA should have its own addendum to the list. What are the 10 best $80-or-less courses in various high-rent districts around the country? This would mostly be southern New England, mid-Atlantic and coastal Calif. courses... places where -everything- is expensive.
Jason
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Adam,
You wrote, "Philip- I've been under the impression that because of the srewed-up system, those 10m couldn't play there. However, the glaring statistical anomially is the sign that reads how one needs to be an accomplished golfer to play the Black. How many of those 10m fit that category? "
Good system or bad, and I believe that it sucks for lack of any better words, it still provides the opportunity for many to play at $38. And the article is titled "Most Affordable Courses" not Most Affordable Courses for the good players!" ;D ;D
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I've played three of these tracks,Rustic Canyon,Tokatee and Olympic at Gold Mountain.
How many Designer/Architects have multiple courses on the list? Is it possible that local architects doing quality work at a reasonable price are future stars in course design?
I see that Tim Liddy has two courses on the list; The Fort and Rock Hollow, both in Indiana.
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Oops..guess I've played four. I missed Wild Horse, which if there's a better value course in the country, I need to get there.
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Brad Klein, I'm not advocating all of the Robert Trent Jones Trail courses, but I do like the two 18's at the Grand National at Auburn/Opelika. They are a bit less over the top and have good lakeside terrain. The greensites are not as large and elevated as many of the other courses. I played 'The Judge' at Prattsville last spring and didn't care too much for it at all. Too many virtually blind approaches because of elevation and size of the elevated green.
Apparently the courses don't qualify because of maximum green fee consideration, but design wise, IMO, I think the Grand National courses should.
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Here is the Golf Magazine list of the 50 best U.S. courses that you can play for $50 or less.
48. Big Creek, Mountain Home, AK
In the interest of saving some of you a lot of flying time, I'll note for the record that Mountain Home is in Arkansas, not Alaska. That Golf Magazine got the abbreviation wrong tells me that while most of the courses are in flyover country, Golf Magazine is mostly not. ;)
Oh, and I also enjoyed the Moors, though it was a while back that I played it. It's a course that really depends on winds to toughen it... but I'm not sure the standard "northern Gulf Coast 10 mph onshore flow" truly qualifies as such. I imagine the Seniors go pretty low there.
Jason
ps to W.H. Cosgrove re multiple designs: Finger/Dye/Spann designed both Pinon Hills and Black Mesa. Fwiw, they also did Paa-Ko Ridge (or as my friends call it, Kung Pao Ridge...).
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I've played 8 --- 4,6,11,15,23,27,34,42. I have to find these good relatively inexpensive courses to be able to look my wife in the eye. Thanks to this website, I would not have played as many.
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Over half of the posters on this thread play the majority of their travel golf comped...could that have anything to do with the lack of searching out affordable courses....note.. this is not a bash....I play most of my travel golf comped myself and rarely seek out the cheapies....sad that even GCA is infected with the snob factor.
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I've played 5. Couple comments:
-No way there are 3 better courses/deals than Wildhorse. Absolutley no way.
-Radisson Greens in Sytracuse is WAY over-rated for this list! Very un-memorable course. The public side of Drumlins CC is a better deal, but it still doesn't belong on this list.
-Hiawatha Landing is unbelievable secret. Drop this course in metro Chicago they would be charging $150 and have a filled tee sheet from May-Oct. I'll be back there in a few weeks and promise to get some more pics.
Additions:
-En Joie in Endicott, NY (5 miles from Hiawatha Landing) is probably the only PGA Tour stop anyone can play for sub $50.
-Greystone outside Rochester, NY. Fantastic place by Craig Schriener w/ some of the best greensites I've ever played.
Another I'll try to get some pics of. At $42 an absolute steal.
I was going to add Wintonburry Hills untill I checked the web site. It's pretty steep for a muni. Still a good deal.
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Over half of the posters on this thread play the majority of their travel golf comped...could that have anything to do with the lack of searching out affordable courses....note.. this is not a bash....I play most of my travel golf comped myself and rarely seek out the cheapies....sad that even GCA is infected with the snob factor.
John,
I don't know how you know that, but I'll take you at your word. However, I'm a high school teacher and don't get comped for anything, ever! I've only played two of these courses, and won't ever be likely to play many more because of the relatively remote locations. I think that's probably a bigger factor than whatever snobbery resides here. Hell, I'd even play cheap golf with you! ;)
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Three I would add:
Oak Hollow in High Point NC. Best bargain of the century at $15.
Ravenwood in Rochester, NY. Haven't played Greystone, so I can't compare, but it is as good as Nearby Cobblestone Creek, which is supposedly comparable to Greystone.
Mark Twain in Elmira, NY. A Donald Ross Muni!
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Wilmington Golf Course, http://www.golfclubatlas.com/wilmington1.html, is around $20.
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brian- i believe you are half right, for residents.
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Over half of the posters on this thread play the majority of their travel golf comped...could that have anything to do with the lack of searching out affordable courses....note.. this is not a bash....I play most of my travel golf comped myself and rarely seek out the cheapies....sad that even GCA is infected with the snob factor.
Careful Barney . . . Don't you remember what happened when I said this exact same thing last fall?? I still keep my back to the wall and my eyes on the door whenever I fear that raters may be around.
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For the record, I can't remember ever being comped at ANY public course, nor do I mention that I'm a rater prior to showing up.
I just pay the freight and get in line like everybody else.
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Cirba,
This was not a rater bash...I am not a rater and have not played any of the above 50 courses.....I don't know if I should be proud of you or wonder why you have never played Kiawah Island, Pinehurst, Pebble...or any of the other $200+ publics....or are resort and public two different animals..
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John;
I've didn't say I didn't play them, including Whistling Straits, Blackwolf Run, etc...20 on the Golf Magazine Top 100 in all.
I just said I also paid to play them.
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Damn...You payed to play all those overpriced courses when all it took was a call to be comped....even Pine Hill....for that I put myself back on rater bashing probation until the end of August.....you are an example to be followed my friend..for the good of the game.
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John;
I think Dick Daley mentioned the other day what we paid to play Whistling Straits. That's the usual modus operandi and if one wants to see and play a lot of courses, it does get quite expensive. I should be driving something nicer than my Toyota, but life is about trade offs.
You mentioned Pine Hill, and I did forget that I played that one comped through a game that another rater set up. I would have been bummed to have payed a buck and half for that one, I must admit.
Probably 500 of the courses I've played have been public courses, many of far lesser pedigree than the one's you mentioned.
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Oh, and about Pine Hill...
You can see how much getting comped affects my rating. ::)
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You mentioned Pine Hill, and I did forget that I played that one comped through a game that another rater set up. I would have been bummed to have payed a buck and half for that one, I must admit.
Looks like I might have to appeal my probation....how did I know that redanman wouldn't pay to see a Fazio he knew sucked before he ever set foot on the property.....I forgive you if it makes you feel any better about the experience but I would feel better about the constant bashing of the course if I knew you had paid.
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John;
You can't have it both ways...
Either raters are influenced by being comped, or not.
If your theory holds true, I (we) should be singing the praises of Pine Hill.
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Charlotte Golf Links was fun and worth the $.
JWK
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While The Fort is IMO one of the best courses in Indy, I would be surprised if you can still get on there for $50. Maybe a twilight rate....
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Old Works
Rustic
Tokatee
Wailua
Of course, locals in Hawaii play most of their courses for under $50. A couple years back Poipu Bay was around $30 and Prince was about $50. I think Wailua was around $12. It's enough to make you get a fake I.D. before you go on vacation.
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It wouldn't surprise me one bit that this list was another Golf Mag list the editors threw together (like the Best 45 in the last 45 years list was), with no input from the GM raters. Yes, this is very midwest-centric, mainly why I've played so few. My travels have rarely taken me to the midwest.
BTW, I've played 4:
Pacific Grove
Rustic Canyon
Wailua
Draper Valley
Over half of the posters on this thread play the majority of their travel golf comped...could that have anything to do with the lack of searching out affordable courses
Hmm... Of the 8 rounds of golf at public courses this year (not counting my home course), I paid at 7 of them, 5 for $25 or less.
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I've played 7. Wish I could get to more. Not many are in or near CA, sadly. In the interest of full disclosure, given we are examing the rating system again:
4 - Wild Horse - paid
11 - Black Mesa - comped
21 - Riverdale Dunes - paid
28 - Rustic Canyon - comped once, paid many times thereafter
42 - Pacific Grove - I am busting up at the thought of getting comped there - paid obviously
45 - Wailua - paid
49 - Papago - paid
I am generally with Mr. Cirba re public courses, in that the only time I'd seek special treatment is if it's a pain in the ass to get a tee-time, and a nice guy makes it happen for me (ie Tommy N. at Rustic for me) or it it's part of a group outing and a nice guy makes that happen (ie Mike Nuzzo at Black Mesa). In those cases, when they tell me the round is comped, I find it kinda weird to then demand to pay.
In any event I don't think whether I paid or not effected my feelings about any of these courses... but I'm sure John will tell me one way or the other! ;) For me, the issue of being comped doesn't exist at most of these... they'd have to be on the Best New or Best in US lists for that to even be possible, and for most of these, that likely happened right when they opened (like Rustic and BM) but thereafter it's not even possible, as they tend to not be on the Best in US nominee list. So it really is a non-issue.
In any case in my mind they are all damn fine courses. And yes, when it comes to bang for one's buck based on costs of other courses around it, Rustic remains the heavyweight champion of America.
TH
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Doesn't Barona Creek have some twilight and specials for still about $50? If so, I'd certainly put it on the list.
Since I've played very few on the list I can't really compare my regular hometown course, but for $38 non-res and $26 res, Brown County GC in Green Bay may be right up there.
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Doesn't Barona Creek have some twilight and specials for still about $50? If so, I'd certainly put it on the list.
Since I've played very few on the list I can't really compare my regular hometown course, but for $38 non-res and $26 res, Brown County GC in Green Bay may be right up there.
RJD - I think the rules are that normal fees have to be $50 or less. But hell, get Barona inside of this and I am with you - it is a damn fine course and belongs on any list one cares to compile.
BTW, I wasn't comped there either. ;)
TH
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I can see no reason why a rater would not always pay at a public course. Perhaps, Mr. huckaby has the answer, but in general these places should not even know you are a rater. Now, how many of you raters "pay" at private venues? Are you 7 for 8 Mr. Burroughs? Is it insulting to the host to offer to pay for caddies?
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Now, how many of you raters "pay" at private venues? Are you 7 for 8 Mr. Burroughs? Is it insulting to the host to offer to pay for caddies?
I go expecting to pay.
I always request a caddy if they are available and always pay for them.
I will normally buy a shirt or hat or something from the shop to show my appreciation.
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I've played three - Rustic Canyon, Prairie Highlands, Wailua.
Was hoping to see more from this area on the list. I would think that Wilmington, Bryan Park and Tanglewood would fit the criteria.
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For the record, I can't remember ever being comped at ANY public course . . . .
Mike, I think this is precisely the point. Why would the bulk of raters (you and the many other thoughtful posters here excluded) pay $40 bucks at a low profile public when they could get comped (and lunch?) at a high end monstrosity down the road? With no comps at all, don't you think that many more raters would file in line behind you at the less known/ less expensive public?
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I can see no reason why a rater would not always pay at a public course. Perhaps, Mr. huckaby has the answer, but in general these places should not even know you are a rater. Now, how many of you raters "pay" at private venues? Are you 7 for 8 Mr. Burroughs? Is it insulting to the host to offer to pay for caddies?
Hammy - as I say, the only times I've taken a comp at a public course are those in which the tee-time had to be set up for me (out of convenience, or as part of a group outing), and in connection with such, the comp was offered. Maybe my etiquette is off, but refusing such at that point just seems wrong to me. Outside of that, hell yes even when doing an official "rating" at a public course, it just seems more normal to make your tee-time and pay your freight, as you say. That's what Mike does, that's what I do. And remember, at least for me, most public course aren't nominated to be rated anyway. Good lord, I must play at least 50 normal paid rounds on public courses for every 1 that I'm doing as part of a "rating." Thus the whole thing seems a non-issue to me...
Now re private clubs, it's like this: many I am required to "rate", and the only way to gain access is to call and ask them, and tell them what I am doing. In that case, I just follow their rules. If they say no, then that's that. if they say yes, then what I pay is up to them, and I ask no questions.
As for offering to pay a host for caddies, jeez if someone hosts me I offer to pay for everything I possibly can. I'd say it's normal to go overboard on the caddies, if they are part of the deal. As a guest, one just ought to be happy to be there period, and payment should just be a given.
Hopefully this makes sense. I think I do this properly...
TH
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1...4 courses for me.
2...Can't think of any to add at this time except maybe Manakiki in Cleveland, Ohio.
3...Yes, Aldeen in Rockford is less than 2 hours away.
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For the record, I can't remember ever being comped at ANY public course . . . .
Mike, I think this is precisely the point. Why would the bulk of raters (you and the many other thoughtful posters here excluded) pay $40 bucks at a low profile public when they could get comped (and lunch?) at a high end monstrosity down the road? With no comps at all, don't you think that many more raters would file in line behind you at the less known/ less expensive public?
Dave: Obviously we discussed this at length before. It seems to me to remain a non-issue, because at least the way GD does it, one's choice of courses is pretty much predetermined... You are assigned new ones to do, and there's no distinction between cheap and expensive, public and private. Outside of that, on the Best in the US list, well there just aren't many $40 and under courses nominated period.
So you make a good logical point: it is normal to go for the maximum "value" when choosing between courses, and in that case the lowered priced ones might get overlooked.
But you have to understand the lower-priced ones don't tend to be nominated at all... so the point is moot...
And in the odd case that they are nominated, well hell yes they get their proper due, because they stand out so much, most raters want to see them just to find out why.
TH
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Played eight.
Have not played The Fort in INdy- less than two hours away.
Two KY courses on the list- Old Silo and Lassing Point. Both good courses but IMO not as good as Kearney Hill in Lexington. A Pete and PB muni you can walk for $23.00. Host to the 1997 US Publinks and soon (hopefully) the women's Publinks. Conditioning has been an issue but it is improving and now on par with Lassing.
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Mr. Huckaby-From your description, I would say you do things properly also.
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Mr. Huckaby-From your description, I would say you do things properly also.
Thanks. I do try and it is important to me. To that end, I have had a lot of good teachers, several of whom frequent this board.
TH
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Are you 7 for 8 Mr. Burroughs? Is it insulting to the host to offer to pay for caddies?
Paid at 2 of 5 new private venues this year. One told me up front that I was "all set", although I paid for the forecaddie. Other two I offered to pay, but one host refused (this was after the round), the other club said I was all set (I was playing with a local pro). 3 had caddies, paid and used on two, on other, only 1 person in group used a caddie, and I was fully expecting to pay for the round itself, but he was the guy who refused afterwards.
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I've played six on the list:
Willingers
Lassing Pointe
The Fort
Piper Glen
Papago (though it was 10 years ago)
Aldeen
I personally think Willingers is a bit too high on the list. It's pretty good, but not that good.
I agree with Jim Sweeney about Kearney Hill being a good pick for the list. Another that could/should be on the list is our guy Jeff Brauer's The Legacy just outside of Des Moines. I don't know what the rates are at Lawsonia these days (maybe they've snuck over $50), but both courses are very solid. Another good one is Stone Creek in Urbana, Ill. It's $35 to walk, $50 to ride.
And while we can all sit here and complain about certain courses not being on the list and certain courses being on the list, I applaud Golf for doing this list. Part of the game's problem is that there are simply too many courses with triple-digit green fees, especially when many of those courses are barely worth $50. As someone who travels quite a bit (and gets to play some golf when on the road), these are the kinds of places I look for. Now it doesn't have to be under 50 bucks, but I'm not a big fan of paying more than 75 very often. If I do play someplace with generally higher rates, I usually play twilight.
While there are certainly places that are worth dropping big cash to play, I don't think the list of courses worth more than 100 or 200 a round is very long. Most of the time, I can get as much or nearly as much enjoyment out of a good 50 or 60 buck course.
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Only 2 for me, Black Mesa and The Rawls Course. No surprise coming if you've read my posts - I'd put TRC way ahead of BM. On this list especially, as I'd assume golfers seeking out less expensive public courses are probably less capable as well (pure guess on this, but I'd be surprised if I were wrong).
Doesn't that list seem awfully biased (sorry, hate using the b word) toward newer courses? How many courses on the list are over 15 years old? Hard for me to imagine there aren't a lot of older courses that are dirt cheap that I wouldn't prefer.
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David Moriarty;
Huck said exactly what I wanted to re: choosing "value".
A course is either nominated and is on the list to be evaluated or not, public or private, high-end or lower scale.
The same works in the private category, as well. I've played courses that cost $50 million to build and yet find myself rating them a full four points behind Wild Horse, for instance.
It's really about the golf course itself, not the associated flotsam and jetsam.
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For the record, I can't remember ever being comped at ANY public course . . . .
Mike, I think this is precisely the point. Why would the bulk of raters (you and the many other thoughtful posters here excluded) pay $40 bucks at a low profile public when they could get comped (and lunch?) at a high end monstrosity down the road? With no comps at all, don't you think that many more raters would file in line behind you at the less known/ less expensive public?
David,
Thanks for the clarification...it is not even about raters...even if they do think the golfing world revolves around their opinion...Recently this poor non-rater was comped at Crooked Stick when I had a wedding to attend in Indianapolis....if I was a paying customer I might have played one of the thrifties on the above list....I didn't and now Crooked Stick is my number one rated course in Indy...fair...you bet.
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I will echo Jeff Shelman's comment about Willingers. It is the only course on the list I've played, and though I have nothing to compare it to except what I've read about some of the other courses listed, I was surprised to see it ranked 5th. Seems too high.
I've played there a half dozen times and I'd play again, but there are courses under $50 in the Twin Cities area I like just as much, if not more...some of the holes are kind of funky, contradicting the description in the magazine about "pure, straight-ahead golf," or whatever it said.
If you're in the area, by all means play Willingers. By today's prices, it's a good deal and a big golf course. I just wouldn't race across the country because GM rated it #5 on some list.
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I've played 7 of these. I was comped at 2 of them, but only one of those was because I was a rater. The other was at an outing where one of the architects invited a bunch of us to play for free without regard to who was a rater and who wasn't. The one where I was a rater was only because someone else told them I was before I got there.
Eastmoreland in Portland should be on the list. Also possibly Heron Lakes - Great Blue if it is still under $50.
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I just wouldn't race across the country because GM rated it #5 on some list.
I wouldn't race across the county.
If I were visiting the Twin Cities, I'd play Keller or University -- and save myself not only some green fees, but an hour of driving (at least).
If Willinger's is the No. 5 course in the country where the green fees are less than $50, we have a serious, serious shortage of good courses under $50 in this country.