Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group => Topic started by: Ran Morrissett on March 15, 2004, 10:50:41 AM
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Thanks to the generosity of those individuals presently listed in the Contributions section as well as those from years gone past, this web site runs commercial free. As such, we have no pressure to maximize the number of page views etc. The only 'pressure' is to make GolfClubAtlas.com as meaningful a web site as possible.
To that end, and based on the personal attacks and anonymous posts where a sincere poster gets flamed by not saying the politically correct thing, changes are going to be made to the Discussion Group within the next 30 days. No one wants to see this DG erode and inadvertently be allowed to drift toward a lower common denominator as good posters lose interest in wading through the muck.
As a start, no one will be able to register after the end of this week, and this will remain so for the next 30-45 days. The number of people who can post will be capped at 1,000 (presently there are over 2,500 'members' or people who can post). If you aren't comfortable posting under your own name and are registered as Odd Job or Three Putt or Big Bertha or whatever, you can change that name to your name before the end of the March. Otherwise, starting next month, I will be deleting those who have registered under something other than your own name. (And if your real name happens to be Three Putt, well, life has been cruel and not being able to post on GCA.com is the least of your worries :)). Next, 80-90% of the registered people who have never made a post will be deleted, to make room for people who do want to share their thoughts re: golf course architecture. Also, people have used this site to network their way onto courses and once there, have made fools of themselves (not reimbursing the host, throwing golf clubs, etc.) - they're gone, as are posters more obsessed with proving how witty they are rather than focusing on the subject at hand: golf course architecture.
On the surface, these changes may seem a lot but in reality, they aren't - this DG is rarity on the internet of civil discourse 90% plus of the time. The laissez-faire approach of the first five years in managing the DG has worked great and it only needs a tune up.
Everyone will always be able to follow the DG; not everyone will be able to post. The crucial attributes of the ultimate 1,000 posters will be that a) they are interested in articulating their thoughts on golf course architecture and perhaps contribute an In My Opinion or My Home Course entry from time to time, b) as a set, they have a WIDE variety of opinions, c) they are civil and d) they are geographically diverse (perhaps ~600 members or posters in the U.S. and ~400 international members would be wonderful as being a U.S.-centric site was never a goal). The number of people who can post may expand past 1,000 over time once we have a solid core but that day is a long ways off. In the meanwhile, the random cheap shots and gutless posts under alias names will be diminished by Masters weekend.
The sole purpose of the web site is to be a meaningful place for people to gather and discuss/learn about golf course architecture (with a most gratifying result being the number of friendships formed through this site). In no way are these measures meant to hamper or lessen the discourse on golf architecture. In fact, these actions are meant to ENCOURAGE a freer form of discussion, thanks to an absence of throwaway cheap shots and insults. I am aware of numerous posters/lurkers who will rejoin/join the fray once these changes are in place.
Though there may be a few slight negatives in having people post under their own name, the positives far outweigh the negatives at this point. By taking this step, hopefully this web site will continue on its way to realizing its maximum potential.
Cheers,
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Ran - makes great sense to me - keep up the wonderful work and again, many thanks for all of this.
Tom Huckaby
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I think these are all excellent changes.
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Ran,
I don't mean to be overly critical here, but if you eliminate the use of "screen names" and mandate the use of "legal names", you may face a compromise in the OTHER direction (not the flamers) but the guys who have the access and knowledge of some pretty private courses. Simply stated, and as an example only, were I a member of Augusta National, and there were a thread on here about it, I would be VERY hesitant to make a post to clarify an error, or other such thing if I had to use my real name, therefore now outing myself as an Augusta member, not to mention, if it were sensetive (not top secret) information, I would now have also "outed" myself to the club, therefore running the risk of being ejected.
The same may also be true for people to try to gain even MORE access to difficult courses by knowing the names and associating the memberships those people carry. All it takes is one "lurker" to start keeping a spreadsheet of names and associated clubs, next thing you know Joe Bob Hacker is calling me and saying "hey pal, i'm in Augusta and want to play the National. Not that one would allow him to play, but just being bothered by this is worriesome.
Perhaps a better solution would be to get "registered screen names", therefore, allowing those who wish to remain hidden to the general public, would somehow be screened (and known) by Ran and / or the staff?
Perhaps some may view the above as being "paranoid". While I can see your side, you also have to ask yourself why so many posters use "screen names"?
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Simply stated, and as an example only, were I a member of Augusta National, and there were a thread on here about it, I would be VERY hesitant to make a post to clarify an error, or other such thing if I had to use my real name, therefore now outing myself as an Augusta member, not to mention, if it were sensetive (not top secret) information, I would now have also "outed" myself to the club, therefore running the risk of being ejected.
Ran will make an exception for all members of Augusta National. ;D
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as are posters more obsessed with proving how witty they are rather than focusing on the subject at hand: golf course architecture.
Uh oh....this will require great restraint! I agree with the changes, BTW!
Joe
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Open discourse is healthy and is core. If a person can't stand-up to the words that come out of their mouth, they should re-consider posting them. Even if it means risking their memberships.
Bravo! The new cruelty is working. Did I just read an article about a Florida course that has placed 23 individuals on the black list? Maybe cruelty is the wrong tag, maybe it should show respect for the Man, the Robert Tyre Jones phase, of gca.com?
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I agree with Ran.
Golf and this forum should rid itself of miscreants.
JK
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Ran,
Congratulations on this forum.. I agree with the subtle changes.. RStG still awaits that challenge game.
Formerly J.J.S.E (my initials)
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well the NAFFER is now my full name too!
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Adam and Joe,
Step up and put your real name on board before it is too late...we would hate to lose you.
They have been posting under their real names (first initial and last names, though Adam's is disjointed) for their entire times on the board. Many guys here post in that same form (including Doyen #1). More than some can say.
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Ran,
Slider8 says "Perhaps a better solution would be to get "registered screen names", therefore, allowing those who wish to remain hidden to the general public, would somehow be screened (and known) by Ran and / or the staff?"
As we discussed, I too have similar concerns, though not for the reasons noted (access issues to golf courses can be dealt with quite easily, ranging from not responding to requests to doing everything possible to help if one is so inclined to do so). I can see that there are times when someone may wish to say something useful and constructive without being identified directly on the record.
On the same token, there are time issues associated with administering this site, and perhaps the consequences of these are greater than the valuable contributions that may be lost by requiring a proper, verifyable name/registration. As a possibility, there may be some on this site who could help in relieving some of this load (myself included).
The bottom line is that while I see the need for and support the general thrust of these changes, I would hope that these could be accomplished without chasing off some very valuable contributors. A small electronic index of registered pseudonyms for those who have the need may be a good way to go. That's my two cents worth, and probably that is what's worth.
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I agree with Slider8's concerns.
I would suggest that real names be used unless a poster can convince Ran that a screen name is appropriate or necessary. The presumption should be to use real names whenever possible.
But there may be limited situations where a screen name makes sense. I would hate to lose the input of "insiders" who are uncomforatble using real names.
Ran should have full and complete discretion to permit screen names, be accountable to no one for his decisions and entitled to change his mind about particular posters at any time.
It's his show.
Bob
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great changes ran. hopefully civility will follow.
cheers, james soper (formerly medalist).
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Slider8,
I don't mean to be overly critical here, but if you eliminate the use of "screen names" and mandate the use of "legal names", you may face a compromise in the OTHER direction (not the flamers) but the guys who have the access and knowledge of some pretty private courses. Simply stated, and as an example only, were I a member of Augusta National, and there were a thread on here about it, I would be VERY hesitant to make a post to clarify an error, or other such thing if I had to use my real name, therefore now outing myself as an Augusta member, not to mention, if it were sensetive (not top secret) information, I would now have also "outed" myself to the club, therefore running the risk of being ejected.
This is true, I've experienced it first hand, but, I'm sure that you'll come up with a solution to get your point across.
The same may also be true for people to try to gain even MORE access to difficult courses by knowing the names and associating the memberships those people carry. All it takes is one "lurker" to start keeping a spreadsheet of names and associated clubs, next thing you know Joe Bob Hacker is calling me and saying "hey pal, i'm in Augusta and want to play the National. Not that one would allow him to play, but just being bothered by this is worriesome.
I've posted under my own name and this has happened occassionally, but, it's not a big deal.
It's relatively easy to deal with
Perhaps a better solution would be to get "registered screen names", therefore, allowing those who wish to remain hidden to the general public, would somehow be screened (and known) by Ran and / or the staff?
Why should everybody else post under their name, but you get to post under an anonymous name known only to Ran.
Come on out in the open, it makes for a more level playing field
Perhaps some may view the above as being "paranoid". While I can see your side, you also have to ask yourself why so many posters use "screen names"?
Because, in some cases it's easier to launch personal attacks, hide, snipe and retreat, without fear of recrimination.
P.S. Did you happen to read the first page of the business section of yesterday's New York Times ?
If not, I'd suggest getting a copy, it was very informative, especially if you were about to make a wager.
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Ran,
Thank you again for stepping up and taking the time to get this done!! Obviously it is your call. I do know one poster who we would probably lose due to his affiliation with a major club manufacturer and his concerns about posting negatives about courses that buy his clubs. You already know him as well. Is there any way that people could keep screen names, so long as you knew who they were and they were warned that flaming other members might force the GCA staff to reveal them?
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(And if your real name happens to be Three Putt, well, life has been cruel and not being able to post on GCA.com is the least of your worries)
*sniff* *sniff* How come I was singled out? I feel so abused! ;) ;D (And no, that is not my real name but a nick name a golfing buddy enjoys calling me).
Although I don't post a whole heck of a lot, I do definitely enjoy reading this site. If I am one to be excluded from the group of 1,000, so be it as I would rather not be able to participate in favor of someone who would do so more than I.
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I agree with the changes and hope I make the cut. Just a thought, couldn't someone called "John Doe" call himself "John Smith" and make it through the net?
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I, too, agree with the changes and hope to make the cut. While my posts have been few, and much shorter than most, I've learned a lot about the game, the courses, designers & archtects, and the history & traditions of this great game. Thanks for making this an enjoyable and enlightening part of my day.
Wayne Wiggins, Jr.
aka Wigs (and you can still call me that... it's my nickname!)
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iH!
My name is ForkaB, from the planet Skyron. I have been posting for some time under the "pseudonym" "Rich Goodale" but wonder what I should do next. Any help would be appreciated.........
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Dumb question from a computer illiterate. My username is JGoldman, and my name on posts appears as Jeff Goldman. Do I have to change something? If so, how? Don't want to get punted till I finish my My Home Course piece.
Jeff Goldman
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...and the Fat Baldy Drummer lays down his sticks.
Martin.
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It's fun watching all of the full names appear out of the blue! ;D Check out those who are logged in to see a bunch of 'new' names.
Jeff,
Your name appearing as your full name is all that matters. If you do a My Home Course piece, it would be the first "repeat" MHC piece. To differentiate yours, take lots of pictures! I plan to do one now that I have a digital camera. I'm just waiting for the Bermuda to come out of dormancy....
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(http://www.cartoonbank.com/assets/1/22230_m.gif)
Dan King
I don't care to join any club that's prepared to have me as a member.
--Groucho Marx
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WONDERFUL MOVE RAN....on all counts.
Guess the "teve" is officially outed!
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One wonders what fate will befall Huge "Puffy" Wilson.
Perhaps he'll just move on into the sunset, looking for other bunkers to upholster..
Come back, Puffy. :'(
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Good ideas. I havent been around long enough to notice the degregation of the board, but taking away the air of anoniminty on a professional board such as this should help to make it better.
Jeff
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Thanks Ran.
Pat Sisk
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"Next, 80-90% of the registered people who have never made a post will be deleted, to make room for people who do want to share their thoughts re: golf course architecture."
That's a very interesting number! I wonder how many serious posters we have now. Could it be no more than perhaps a couple of hundred? If so this 1000 cap still has tons of expansion for the way we are now!
"Everyone will always be able to follow the DG; not everyone will be able to post."
That's very interesting too. I'm such a complete klutz on computers and technology and website technology I really wasn't even aware of that. Then that means that anyone at all can log on and read but only up to 1000 can register and post.
If that's all so I wouldn't be averse to seeing this site list all those and their email addresses who are registered and can post on some section of this website so those who aren't registered and can't post could at least get in touch with us off the discussion group. I could be wrong but I believe if you aren't registered on this website you certainly can't use the IM feature on the discussion group---plus I'm told that IM feature if not occassionally cleared by all of us takes up unnecessary space.
These changes look good but let's not forget the ultimate dream of this website, at least to me, is to ultimately create better and real collaboration in architectural matters between who and what's on this discussion group and anyone else in the world out there at clubs and courses who might be looking for discussion and collaboration on golf architecture. How could this website ultimately get better and more useful than that?
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First post here but lurking for 6 + months.
I agree with Mark T. . If I get deleted from being able to post in favor of someone who posts more frequently; not difficult ;), and with more knowledge and experience in gca then that's fine with me. Good to know that the discussions and especially the archives will remain open to all. The board and overall site are a great resource for anyone interested in learning about gca and there has been talk on some threads of creating two discussion groups. This is an excellent solution.
Best,
John Moore
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I kind of hate to see "mayday" go!!
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DFrey or Dale.........what is the difference.....I'll play by the new rules............just hope some of these lurkers using false names do not contact me to play my clubs!
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I hope they don't try to see my clubs too! After all, my clubs are old and rusty. ;)
Jonathan Cummings
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I feel so free now, I have been reborn...........I am like a phoenix, rising from Arizona.......I can throw away the mask and finally, now, finally be myself, no more Sandman.....hopefully this idea allows you to meet your goal but remeber this: no matter what you do, people are still going to post stupid comments and insults............good luck
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MarkT says ;
Although I don't post a whole heck of a lot, I do definitely enjoy reading this site. If I am one to be excluded from the group of 1,000, so be it as I would rather not be able to participate in favor of someone who would do so more than I.
ditto as far as I'm concerned and any comments I make are usually inclined towards the Technology debate and history. So I suppose I'm not really a GCA'er anyway ?
I respect this site and believe this move will eradicate the stirrers whose only mission is to provoke the real thinkers in golf !
Alfie Ward.
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Quasssi is officially retired but remains my aol screen name for anyone who ever wants to email me.
I think these changes are great. :) :) :) :) :)
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Scott, I'm doing the South Course at Olympia Fields, so it is not a repeat. Our terrific membership director, Gwen Russell, is going to help with her digital camera and should be able to help me put this together. Also, I have spent some time in the historical archives and found a ton of interesting stuff about both courses. I came upon a booklet from about 1925 which has pictures of the tee shots of all 4 courses, along with other pictures, descriptions and yardages (slightly different from those in Dan Wexler's book). I also have seen a 1944 yearbook, just before the demise of courses 2 and 3, which describes how they planned to modify the (now) south course by using a bit of the soon-to-be NLE courses. The original plan was to make the (now) 6th hole, the great drive and pitch par 4, into a par 3. Luckily, that didn't happen.
Blathering on too long about this, but the other thing I noticed is that the open holes then, and in the 20s, are the open holes on both courses now, and the holes through the trees appear to have about the same width. Also, we apparently have yearly aerials going back a very long time. The only thing missing is stuff about the greens, which I am told are documented somewhat in the board minutes because the board approved all changes to the courses. I would need about 2 free weeks to go through this stuff.
Jeff Goldman
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I too have lurked a lot more than I've posted, and have learned a lot from this board. I think these are good changes.
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Oh NO!!!!! :o :-*
No more SLAG BANDOON!!!!!!! :(
Norbert, please reintroduce yourself. 8)
Gene (Greco)
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Jeff,
That sounds like it'll be great stuff. Look forward to it.
Gene,
I was trying to remain quiet about Slagbert, but he was my biggest wonder whether or not he'd "come out".
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Could someone please bring the long thread about "who we are" or something like that so I can put some real names to those posts.
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Slider8,
I don't mean to be overly critical here, but if you eliminate the use of "screen names" and mandate the use of "legal names", you may face a compromise in the OTHER direction (not the flamers) but the guys who have the access and knowledge of some pretty private courses. Simply stated, and as an example only, were I a member of Augusta National, and there were a thread on here about it, I would be VERY hesitant to make a post to clarify an error, or other such thing if I had to use my real name, therefore now outing myself as an Augusta member, not to mention, if it were sensetive (not top secret) information, I would now have also "outed" myself to the club, therefore running the risk of being ejected.
This is true, I've experienced it first hand, but, I'm sure that you'll come up with a solution to get your point across.
The same may also be true for people to try to gain even MORE access to difficult courses by knowing the names and associating the memberships those people carry. All it takes is one "lurker" to start keeping a spreadsheet of names and associated clubs, next thing you know Joe Bob Hacker is calling me and saying "hey pal, i'm in Augusta and want to play the National. Not that one would allow him to play, but just being bothered by this is worriesome.
I've posted under my own name and this has happened occassionally, but, it's not a big deal.
It's relatively easy to deal with
You may not be bothered by having to deal with this minor interruption, however, I value my time greatly and prefer not to have to constantly explain why I wish to not help "joe hacker" who BTW I have never met gain access to a certain course
Perhaps a better solution would be to get "registered screen names", therefore, allowing those who wish to remain hidden to the general public, would somehow be screened (and known) by Ran and / or the staff?
Why should everybody else post under their name, but you get to post under an anonymous name known only to Ran.
Come on out in the open, it makes for a more level playing field
Grow up. I didn't make this post only for me, this was a general discussion topic, not directed at myself for my own personal gain, but as you can see from other posts, I am not the only one who shares this feeling. Do me a favor and find it in yourself to stop targeting me
Perhaps some may view the above as being "paranoid". While I can see your side, you also have to ask yourself why so many posters use "screen names"?
Because, in some cases it's easier to launch personal attacks, hide, snipe and retreat, without fear of recrimination.
P.S. Did you happen to read the first page of the business section of yesterday's New York Times ?
If not, I'd suggest getting a copy, it was very informative, especially if you were about to make a wager.
PPS You just can't let something doe can you? You are showing your true "sniping" colors again young man
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The change is a nice concept, but I feel GCA is just going to be over taken by a crowd of Smith's and Johnson's ???
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The change is a nice concept, but I feel GCA is just going to be over taken by a crowd of Smith's and Johnson's ???
Well, one suspects that the "Smiths and Johnsons" will suffer the same fate here as the tragically named "ThreePutt."
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"Kinda makes you wonder what it must have been like in that closet before everybody came out!"
- The Late Lewis Grizzard
I just hope nobody tries to pass themselves off as, say, Norbert Painter ::)
Mike
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I can't help but morn the possible passing of Slag Bandoon. Most of us who hope to make the cut of the fortunate 1000 and who have been on this site for years know the man with the greatest moniker on this site or maybe in golf (Shivas comes close but was already used in the book). I still think Slag ought to draw a golf cartoon character and then copywrite the name.
Can I stick with RJ Daley rather than run the risk of being called "thingy" Daley? ;) ;D ::)
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I think Slagbert is deep in consultation with Dr. Katz at the moment.
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I feel anonymous using my real name. Even people who know me won't recognize me! 8)
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I haven't spent much time on this site lately and have not posted in several months. Given the new rules,which address many of the reasons for my absence, I will be happy to participate again, IF I am lucky enough to be selected as a qualified member.
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Ran -- Thanks again for this website. I hope these modifications will help the DG! Dunlop
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Pat -
Why again was it that you deferred to Klangone over Slider8?
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The change is a nice concept, but I feel GCA is just going to be over taken by a crowd of Smith's and Johnson's ???
Yeah, I can see it now -- a whole bunch of "members" with ludicrous "names" like, say, "Hootie Johnson."
Risking banishment, I remain, as always,
Dan Kelly
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Oh My God--what about Dr. Katz? What if that's not that quack's real name? It won't feel the same without that bozo on here every now and again and knowing he's always watchiing us. Of course I don't recall him ever having a thing to say about golf architecture! Matter of fact I don't think he had a thing to say about golf! I've been around here so long I even remember when he happened in here the first time. He was surfing the Internet looking for some alternative psych site when he happened on here by mistake and found so many lulus and wackos on here he decided to stay.
;)
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All in favor, say "I"!!! ;D
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Jim, glad to hear you'll come back. That makes at least 3 returnees, counting Andrew Bernstein and Tony Ristola.
Jeff Goldman
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Dr. Katz is the exception that proves the rule. I am in general agreement with Ran's actions, but concerned that it could blunt good input from architect staff members.
Rest assured that the timing is merely coincidental to the FCC
(Fazio Containment Crowd) crackdown on indecency.
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I have been a steady lurker minimal poster on GCA. I think Ran's changes are excellent as they will save the integrity and quality of this excellent site
Signed,
the lurker/minimal poser formely known as RYD (replace your divot)
John G Keenan
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Just saw this thread; does it mean I can't use "Mr Hurricane" any longer even though I list my name at the bottom? If so, Scott Burroughs, how do I change my ID?
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Hello all,
I was one of the few who were honest with who I was and where I played golf. I didn't mind sharing my opinions on topics.....but I do mind lurkers and posters from this site contacting people I associate with in the business world (my personal secretary, friends, colleagues and board members). Because of this, I will not participate in this forum again.
I like the aspect of real names being used.....but in my case it just added headaches to my plate.....a plate that is very full right now. I like to play golf. I like to play golf at wonderful venues and discuss these venues. I do not like to get attacked and questioned about things not related to golf......ala Slider.
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Just saw this thread; does it mean I can't use "Mr Hurricane" any longer even though I list my name at the bottom? If so, Scott Burroughs, how do I change my ID?
Hit the "profile" button (above) and you will see a box to change your display name.
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Thanks, and Mr Hurricane is exposed :o
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Attempting to comply, I realized I need my password which I think is written down somewhere. Until then, I will remain Stevepoz who in reality is
Steve Pozaric
As an aside, I might suggest those with well know screen names could have as a signature: Bob Smith (f/k/a ...)
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J'ai inscrit pour que je ne peux pas être le match blanc.
Je pense que c'est une bonne idée d'avoir ceci au cas où les choses changent et le site devient si dur à converser et relater avec. Grâce à John K. Kavanaugh pour son grand site et tout son travail assidu et son inquiétude sur faire qu'il améliore.
Aussitôt que je peux l'obtenir pour traduire à l'anglais, je regarderais en avant à discuter ce sujet d'architecture de golf avec vous tous!
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How many signatures would we need to let Slag keep his moniker? Count me as #1.
Cheers,
Brad Swanson
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J'aimerais ajouter que pendant que je lis l'Atlas de Club de Golf un lot, c'est par l'avantage de mon traducteur personnel. Aujourd'hui est son jour de, et si tomrrow vient, j'essaierai d'avoir la traduit des postes pour moi.
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p.mucci@verizon.net is where I emailed you. That is your email address listed in your profile.
You really should take this private pat, my email (current) is in my profile.
I would be happy to discuss this in private with you. I refuse to make this a public spectacle, unlike you.
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Ran,
As a formerly more active participant who got tired of wading through the chaff, I welcome the change and applaud your noble stewardship of this resource.
Doug Stein (formerly Herrstein.)
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Three Cheers for Ran:
Hip, Hip, Huzahh!
Hip, Hip, Huzahh!
Hip, Hip, Huzahh!
Ran:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I look forward to days free from private message explanations and constant second guessing. Days where posts can be taken at face value. Who knows the truth may be just around the corner…
Sincerely,
Jim Thompson
Operator, Builder, Developer, and Armchair Architect
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Pat, I wasn't commenting on the characterizations (I've actually stopped reading most of the more bitter badinage), just the context!
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danielfaleman is Daniel F. Aleman; danielfaleman@hotmail.com
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Needed changes, love the course profiles...glad I am not the site administrator!
Since I was the first name mentioned in Ran's e-mail (Odd Job, great movie), I hope he has not singled me out for anything I had said, since my posts have been mostly deservingly unread.
John Sestak
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For those of you still attached to your nickname, I guess you could include it in your personal quote for the time being. In fact, that might be a good protocol until we learn everyone's names.
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Would we still be legit and allowed to use our nickname in there too. I.E. Daryl "Turboe" Boe was what I was going to use, but I didnt want to get cut down by the nickname police.
Waiting to hear...
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Klag,
Let me say up-front, that my reply to your post is in no way to be considered a flame. My only reason for replying at all is to ask you for specific proof that I "attacked" you about anything. Again, in an effort to keep this private, please direct email me on my profile email address.
Sorry to see that you are leaving this forum. My questions to you regarding Cherokee were meant to establish wether or not you had actually been there (in order to answer my question relating to 12 shirts). Unfortunatley, in the heat of battle (which you & I are both used to), I might have let Pat Mucci's enthuisiam cloud my judgement. For that, you have my sincierst apologies.
Again, please feel free to email me directly if you want.
& Hello all,
I was one of the few who were honest with who I was and where I played golf. I didn't mind sharing my opinions on topics.....but I do mind lurkers and posters from this site contacting people I associate with in the business world (my personal secretary, friends, colleagues and board members). Because of this, I will not participate in this forum again.
I like the aspect of real names being used.....but in my case it just added headaches to my plate.....a plate that is very full right now. I like to play golf. I like to play golf at wonderful venues and discuss these venues. I do not like to get attacked and questioned about things not related to golf......ala Slider.
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I look forward to the changes Ran and keep up the good work, its much appreciated.
Jason Hines
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I am a bit concerned that I may be "voted off the island" because I am typically not too witty, I certainly don't have a wealth of knowledge and I am not really opinionated. I just love this site so that I can soak up information from people who are as crazed by this way of life as I am.
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Brock Peyer writes:
I am a bit concerned that I may be "voted off the island" because I am typically not too witty
Not to worry Mr. Peyer. Wit might get you center stage at the hungry i, but here at GCA it ain’t all that.
Ran Morrissett writes:
they're gone, as are posters more obsessed with proving how witty they are rather than focusing on the subject at hand: golf course architecture.
Sky King
Speaking of minimalists:
When I roomed with Simon Hobday in South Africa, he designated Monday as washday. That meant filling a bath with water, pouring in a liberal amount of detergent, emptying in the entire contents of his suitcase and then proceeding to stir the lot with a putter. When he felt the clothes had been stirred sufficiently, they were thrown out on the balcony to dry.
--Roddy Carr
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It will be interesting to see if this will make this site better. I hope so. I have always been skeptical of seeing this site become exclusionary as I can see the same voices becoming stagnant after a while. However, I welcome the change and look forward to seeing its results.
Jeff F.
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I have always been skeptical of seeing this site become exclusionary as I can see the same voices becoming stagnant after a while.
No one is being excluded. Everyone can participate. You just have to introduce yourself and behave responsibly.
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Great changes..
I know that the other board I frequent, www.dbsforums.com (covering DirecTV technology like TiVo) made the same change last year, and the civility significantly improved.
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Dan H.:
I'm afraid to ask, but here goes... what kind of arguments could people get into over TiVo?
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I hope the elite 1000 that get to post here are placed in some sort of ranking, maybe in groups of say one hundred! That should be great fun!
Furthermore, I am fearful some one like Rich Goodale or Brian Phillips or Darren told Ran I threw a club at Brora. If that gets me banned then so be it. That little tirade clensed my soul and allowed me to open a can of whoop ass at Dornoch to the favor of the USA team! ;D
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Excellent changes. I have not been an active poster because of the flames. One post on LaCosta I made from experience of paying the course was drilled by a member who had never set foot on the property. Good work.
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OK - name changed. "Nixer" no more
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Kelly
Even if you did throw a club at Brora (don't know, didn't ask, didn't tell) you are forgiven. For one thing, I didn't comp you (and wouldn't have even if I could have!). For another, Brora is a GREAT place to throw clubs, if you are so inclined. No highly manicured fairways to blemish, no chance at all for them to get stuck in trees, lots of cows and sheep to aim at, etc., etc........
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I can see why some may want to post under "screen names", I posted only a couple of times under my real name and I stated my opinion about my club and its fate and my "posts" did get me into hot water with the "heads of state" at my club. I have learned again that sometimes we have to agree that we disagree and move on. However, John Moore's idea of creating two discussion groups may be a good solution.
Until then I thank you for having been thoroughly entertained by your threads. I have learned more about golf architecture than I started out to learn 4 months ago and will continue to read them each morning in hopes of learning more.
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Mindy- Just curious, Did the stifeling of discourse change your opinion of the club?
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Adam,
I'm not sure what you mean by "stifeling of discourse". Could you explain please.
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I guess I just assumed that the hot water you "got into", was stifeling the open discourse Bobby Jones felt was imperative to further golf's spirit.
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Adam Clayman,
If I read on or between the lines, what Mindy means is that she was taken to task by her club and/or club members for voicing her opinions on GCA.com.
It's an unfortunate by-product of honest discussions.
Mindy,
There's a reason for Sunshine Laws.
Hang in there, and with us.
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Mindy,
The clubs reaction may have been to the irrational responses your questions on gca.com elicited and not to the questions themselves. Either way, you shouldn't be held responsible for something so innocent, or for the opinions of others which are beyond your control.
I recall that you and another from your club came on here with some questions/opinions about restoration/redesign work at your club. In return, and with no knowledge about the club (beyond its original arch.), or its plans, the club was indicted as irresponsible by some of our local ideologues. You comments weren't inflammatory, only the responses.
A club's activities are entirely its own matter, and not the subject of public debate by non-members who have only a narrow self-serving agenda. However, an innocent inquiry to a knowledge base as deep as GCA.com can't be faulted, particularly if a member feels that the club is being misled by an overzealous green committee. Hopefully, in the future, such inquiries will be met with more responsible insight.
Echoing Pat's advice, and in the words of Louis Brandeis, "sunlight is the best disinfectant."
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Man, I'm never going to make it into the 1,000. After my outburst at Brora, and then taking Rich and Darren's money as a cripple. Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
TTK
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Sean -
That's one take on it.
I prefer to lean on that sage old wisdom of "The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." :)
It is a shame that Mindy's membership is not open to debate, heated or not.
Jeff -
Don't worry, Bobby Jones was a club thrower at one time, too. Maybe Ran's just laying down a warning for the future....
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I like the idea of the listed changes. The downside of screen names potentially being allowed is that the other hundreds of "outed" people on GCA will know that that screen name person is a "maja playa" and it could lead to less than optimum discussion because of numerous factors surrounding the issue. For instance:
"Why does that person get a screen name and I don't?"
"They must be a bigshot, let's find out who it is."
"Hey did you know that XYZ is really Jack Squat, etc."
and on and on...
Unfortunately this issue is a double edged sword. I think the way I would handle it is to post a public notice to the maja playas (they know who they are) and ask that they write to me personally and, in the interest of brevity, discuss the merit of a full "fake" name alias for themselves. That way there is not any suspicion about who "Big Bertha" might be. People will really think that the dude is named "Pete Mitchell" or whatever and who knows, he could be Hootie or Tiger for all we know....just my humble .02
Thanks...
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Jeff -
Don't worry, Bobby Jones was a club thrower at one time, too. Maybe Ran's just laying down a warning for the future....
George --
You misunderstand.
Jeff (T[he] T[hread] K[iller]) McDowell did not throw any clubs.
As I've been told, by one guy in Fife and another guy here in Minnesota: Mr. McDowell left a putt at Brora woefully short -- and, raising his arms to the heavens, howled a blood-curdling Scandinavian imprecation: "Uuuuuuffffff-da!"
Mr. Goodale has not been the same since. Can't speak for Darren.
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I too like the proposed changes. I only hope I dont get kicked out because I am not a "regular" poster although I check the site most days. As an Aussie I tend to comment more on the Australian threads but in any case I have been very broadly educated by most of the discussions on this site.
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Dan H.:
I'm afraid to ask, but here goes... what kind of arguments could people get into over TiVo?
You'd be amazed... Most are Dish (Echostar) vs. DirecTV vs. Cable, but there are TiVo dictractors too. Pretty foolish in my opinion, but c'est la vie!
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I hope the elite 1000 that get to post here are placed in some sort of ranking, maybe in groups of say one hundred! That should be great fun!
no, no, no! We should be rated in deciles ;)
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Georgie -
In the current (and past current) context, your sage wisdom requires assumptions over what is good and what is evil that I am uncomfortable making. Unfortunately, we don't deal in objective facts here (despite the browbeating lessons from PatM to the contrary), which denudes your Burkeian ( ??? ) premise of its logical force.
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Dan:
That depends. Are we trying to rank the best of the best, or are we just trying to separate the best from the good from the average from the bad from the worst?
Deciling might work if you absolutely MUST know if someone is around #750 or #950 out of the thousand.
Most importantly, however, is that ranking each participant cannot be done until we know each criterion.
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I'm Michael Kim, formely known as mikeyolympic.
I am adhering to Ran's request to use our real names.
Since some of you have asked who the hell I am... here I go...
I'm a 19 year old college student at UCSD. I'm majoring in history, which is ironic because I attend a science school. My favorite golf course is Olympic, but ironically I have never played it. If you get to know me, my life is filled with irrationalities and inconsistencies.
Well, hello world...
I hope to get out to Olympic this summer during the Junior am to take some pictures of the course.
I also hope to get out to Bel-Air in the fall during the Senior Am to take pictures.
I have developed a fondness to take photographs, as you could tell from the photos I've posted, especially the Riviera photos.
Hopefully, I'll post more soon if I find some good golf courses to take photos of.
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I posted on Monday
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Good to know that the discussions and especially the archives will remain open to all. The board and overall site are a great resource for anyone interested in learning about gca and there has been talk on some threads of creating two discussion groups. This is an excellent solution.
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The above was poorly written. I'm glad the discussion board and archives will remain open to be read by all even if everyone isn't allowed to post. A two board solution is not a good idea.
Best,
John Moore
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Hi GCA,
Well, I guess this proved to be the thread that brought this longtime lurker out of hiding. I've been following GCA for almost a year now and greatly enjoy the topics here. It has been a real pleasure learning about architecture from such an interesting assortment of posters. I've seen some fun debates and amusing surprises, too....(nice to see Dyker Beach, a muni I'm all too familiar with, for better and worse, get a GCA thread all its own :D ).
Anyway, I live in NYC and work for a golf magazine here. I wanted to put up a post before slipping back into "lurk-mode"--hopefully I will slip under the 1,000 member wire!
Thanks to Ran and friends for a great site---some of the best things about the game of golf truly flourish here. And for an armchair traveler such as myself, there's really nothing like GCA. To visit even a handful of the great unsung courses you all bring to light would be a real pleasure.
Cheers and all best,
TD
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As a new participant on this site I have made posts from the perspective of the Green Chairman at Fox Chapel Golf Club. It has been a great place to get the benefit of diverse ideas as our club deals with the continuing "restoration" of our Seth Raynor gem. If I don't make the cut as a participant, I hope some provision can be made to get other qualified participants to start helpful threads on my behalf. The time I have spent on this site during the past few months has been a great education. I would hate to lose access. Some provision needs to be made for those like me to be able to ask their questions. This site should be mandatory reading for Green Chairman and their committee members. With that said the changes seem logical to me.
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I've noticed that the register function has been turned off. Please fasten your seat belts.
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David B. Gookin;
Don't worry about making the cut on registration here. If the green chairman of Fox Chapel wants to participate and can't register what the hell would this site be all about? I think it's terrific you're on here and willing to participate. Green chairmen, architects, superintendents etc are the most valuable participants and contributors we could possibly have.
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Mr. Randolph Morrissett --
Randolph (if I may be so bold), your judgment has improved dramatically in the years since your therapy sessions ended. The changes you are making to YOUR (!!!!) site are uniformly positive. My only suggestion would be for you to further reduce the number of eligible contributors from 1,000 to something approaching 20. By separate post I will inform you of the people who should retain their eligibility.
At any rate, thank you for thinning the herd. People who post under other than their real names should find their own amusement elsewhere. The poster who uses the pseudonym Patrick Mucci is especially annoying. If we see that name again, we can be certain your new system is in need of further adjustments.
For continued mental health,
Katz
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Dr Katz,
I see that you'e escaped again.
Or, are you participating in an experimental work release program, a temporary furlough from confinement ?
Please advise as to your location, interested parties are searching for you.
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Ran:
I am SO excited to finally have read your post here!
I am one of the long-time guys who has really spent less time on here lately since so much animosity has been rampant on this site.
I also have always believed that people posting here should sign their own names, so another good change.
Cheers!!!!!
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Paul Richards,
It took a while, but all's well that ends well.
I look forward to seeing you and many, many other familiar posters on the site in the near future.
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Randolph,
As an Aussie, and long standing, once-bitten twice-shy lurker, do my statistical chances of making the cut improve due to geographical bias?
This could be called the 600 - 400 rule. I am not trying to be witty. ;D
BTW - somebody mentioned "the staff" at GCA - there is no staff, it's just Ran.
Regards,
George
(As usual, no architectural reference!)
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It will be interesting to see everyone's "A" manners for a change . . . the loss of anonymity is the reason pedestrians don't carry horns.
As far as the dreaded departure of Gyrogolf goes, the Beloved Armenian has been through so much he's lucky to come out with even one personality intact. And even Gib won't mourn the death of Arthur Gumby, Gyro's evil twin. ;)
The only down side for me is that it will take me some time to figure out who you all are. Please introduce yourselves by your "New Official AKA" when next we meet. And if you'd put your old nickname in your signature, that would help me out as I make the switch from your true to your legal names.
Finally, if there is no more room for posts by an interested lassie with strong opinions, know that I have enjoyed your discourse and will continue to lurk . . . and learn . . . at the base of the tree.
Thank you for allowing me to be your *Guesst.* :-*
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Darva:
Anonymity must be kinda fun - I mean, it was a hoot for all of us when Tommy N. pontificated on here how he was the only one who knew who "guesst" was - but the truth shall set us all free - even Armenians with multiple personalities.
;D
So welcome back, and don't be a stranger. Good lord do we need you here....
Now, and always,
Tom Huckaby
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8)
Go Ran Go..
Please take off the number of posts from member areas, keep it as an admin tool only.. I do not believe posting is next to godliness or goodliness as proven here.
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"Member" Steve:
Envy is not an attractive trait.
"God" Tom
;D ;D ;D ;D
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8)
Good God Tom, Lordy you're right,.. 8).. 8)
But if this is going to be a merit shop, then, well,.. let's let the numbers game caste system be history too. Its completely unnecessary..
Folks are going to ignore folks or insane babble or irrationality, talk to others on a specific basis, and if no one wants to talk to you or your topic or thread's point, there's nothing you can do about it, god or not god..
Face it, TEP wins going away.. notwithstanding run on sentences!!
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Ran,
Congrats on the positive changes you are making. Hope I make the cut of 600 in the US. If not I'll still be on here everyday reading about architecture. Thanks.
Cory Lewis
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A tip for those trying to figure out who is who with all the name changes. If you mouse over the name of the poster and look at the link on the bottom of your browser window at the very end you can find the username. For example, if you mouse over Darva's post, it will show "user=guesst" at the very end.
This will tell you the name the user registered with, so it isn't always the same as the name you knew them by (Tom Huckaby shows up as THuckaby2 because that's apparently what he used when he registered) But at least it'll solve the mystery for some of the strangers now populating GCA :)