Donald Steel

[Chris_Blakely]

The main picture on the top of the page on his website is of the only course by Donald Steel that I have played: The Highland Course at Primland.

http://www.donaldsteel.com/index1.htm

Thouroughly enjoyed the course.  It is on a tremendous piece of property and is an adventure in itself getting to the course.

[Rich Goodale]

Steel bashers should know that when in 1983 the Links Trust first engaged him (actually his firm at the time was Cotton (Henry), Penninck (Frank) and Steel (Donald)), the brief was to draw up two plans for the 118 acres which had been purchased from the Cheape Estate.  This was duly done and Plan A proposed no change to the Eden whilst Plan B proposed the changes we see today.  These two plans were put to the local clubs for comment, and only one (the artisan St. Andrews Club) showed a preference for Plan A.  Neither the New nor the R&A stood up for the Eden.  As a result, the Links Trust voted 5-2 in favo(u)r of Plan B.

IMHO, given the decisions which were dictated to him by the Links Trust (i.e. taking over the old 1st, 2nd, 17th and 18th for the driving range and tented village facilities), he did a reasonably good job with the most inferior additional land which was given to him to replace those holes.  As for the pond, as has been said on another recent thread, ponds are not unnatural on links courses.  I can think of County Down, Portmarnock and Dornoch as three courses which feature (or once featured) ponds.

[Sean_A]

"Forest of Arden"

Sean....you are joking...? You cannot be serious, man, you cannot be serious?

Turnberry - redesign

Princes - redesign

Many of the post war archies have done wonderful work on existing (stunning) courses but very few have actually produced the goods on new ground.

I'll give you Vilamoura and maybe Woburn as good to great courses.

You still have not named a really class course designed by an European Architect post war...sorry.

Now people will start to realise why the American invasion occurred...   

Brian

As Rich points out, we shouldn't judge these guys without the facts.

Redesign or no, I believe I have offered several examples of exceptional work by many archies and I know that far more examples exist than I could ever offer.  IMO, new ground or no is not what the debate is about.  We all know that GB&I was in no fit state to be building courses after the war and to a large extent, this is true today - though the war isn't the reason.  For the most part, these guys were picking up scraps from a meal that was eaten at least some dozen years before the war started.  Much like the earliest designers of courses, this lot provided a valuable service that has long gone unheralded and as we have seen on this thread and like many of the original archies, these chaps have even been derided for their efforts.  I am confident that eventually (and perhaps the coming years of recession will hasten this realization) folks will figure out that these guys accomplished a ton with very little opportunity and meager budgets.  Suffice it to say that I will agree to disagree with your opinion of these archies and especially Steel. 

Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

You can add holes 6-11 of Dornoch to the list, all of them new except for the green at 11.  That's 1/3 of one of the better courses in the world.  It's a shame that Duncan, Stutt, Grant and McCulloch aren't known better by GCA aficionados.....

Rich

[Brian Phillips]

Steel bashers should know that when in 1983 the Links Trust first engaged him (actually his firm at the time was Cotton (Henry), Penninck (Frank) and Steel (Donald)), the brief was to draw up two plans for the 118 acres which had been purchased from the Cheape Estate.  This was duly done and Plan A proposed no change to the Eden whilst Plan B proposed the changes we see today.  These two plans were put to the local clubs for comment, and only one (the artisan St. Andrews Club) showed a preference for Plan A.  Neither the New nor the R&A stood up for the Eden.  As a result, the Links Trust voted 5-2 in favo(u)r of Plan B.

IMHO, given the decisions which were dictated to him by the Links Trust (i.e. taking over the old 1st, 2nd, 17th and 18th for the driving range and tented village facilities), he did a reasonably good job with the most inferior additional land which was given to him to replace those holes.  As for the pond, as has been said on another recent thread, ponds are not unnatural on links courses.  I can think of County Down, Portmarnock and Dornoch as three courses which feature (or once featured) ponds.

Rich and Sean,

I am not being critical of Steel with regards the routing or what happened to the Colt course but I am being critical of what Steel left in place at the Eden course.  The work that was done is very poor and not in harmony with the rest of the Links courses. That the Links Trust decided to remove most of The Eden course was a mistake and has nothing to do with Steel.

I realise that it was the Links Trust that instigated the project but it was Steel that designed the holes that are in place.  The land was not great, I agree but the work is poor.

The pond on 17 at County Down makes it the worst hole on the course.  Even though the tees have been taken back over the years the "blind" pond is still in play from the drive which makes it a guessing game off the tee for a good player. if the pond was removed it would be a much better hole than today.

Sean,

I do not agree with you that architects in Europe were picking up scraps after the war.  Maybe just after but how long after do you want go on...the 90s?  Many a European architect has had chances to create good brand new developments and have missed the boat big style.

Can you please both name a few great courses that have been designed by an European Architect from scratch since the war.  Can you come up with 10?

Or we can just agree to disagree.

Brian

[Ally Mcintosh]

I have been told that Tom's work at Woking is very good.

Brian, I think it has been Martin who has been doing the work at Woking, along with George Ritchie, the Director of Golf.

[Brian Phillips]

I have been told that Tom's work at Woking is very good.

Brian, I think it has been Martin who has been doing the work at Woking, along with George Ritchie, the Director of Golf.

Sorry right company wrong man... 

[Ally Mcintosh]

I have been told that Tom's work at Woking is very good.

Brian, I think it has been Martin who has been doing the work at Woking, along with George Ritchie, the Director of Golf.

Sorry right company wrong man... 

I thought that these two effectively started up MacKenzie & Ebert when Steel retired... I didn't actually realise that "The Donald" was still working...