Finegan's All Courses Great and Small

[Ran Morrissett]

I just picked up his book last night at Borders and keep skipping around to descriptions of favorite courses in England and Wales. Finegan's love of the game and trademark exuberance ("I see no reason to back way from an unflinching conclusion: Pennard is a very great course, in my experience one of the twenty greatest in the world") burn as bright as ever.

Has anyone else read the book? What do you agree/disagree with?

I am disappointed to read that the greens at Beau Desert have been softened over the years?

Cheers,

[T_MacWood]

Ran
I've always enjoyed Finegan's writing, he has a gift for finding and describing little known gems, courses like Cruden Bay, Ashdown Forest, Brancaster and Aberdovey. But having said that how good a judge is he in your opinion, do his tastes match yours? I recall he was extremely strong in his praise of Carne, a course I believe you were not too high on.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Ran,  I picked it up last night. I will have some thoughts by the end of the weekend. I will be shoke if it is not great and as informative as any travel book on the market.

[brad_miller]

Ran you actually paid for something related to golf?

[Daniel_Wexler]

Ran:

I'm going to do something rather odd and strongly recommend this book without even having seen it yet.  Mr. Finegan is a really splendid writer whose talent I greatly admire.  That, plus the general excellence of the book's earlier sister volumes on Scotland and Ireland, make this a no-brainer.

I'm really looking forward to receiving my copy.

DW

[NAF]

I especially liked when he talks about his first visit to Rye where two ladies go off the tee before him and he cuts them off on the 3rd and tees off on the 4th.  Then one of the ladies gives him a stern tongue lashing from about 10 feet away on the 5th hole and threatens to go to the club secretary.  He said nothing to her and beat a quick move out of there after he finished.  That was 25 years ago, he said no one bothered to remember when he played Rye a few years later.

[ForkaB]

NAF

That story makes Finegan sound like a complete jerk.  Have you left the "funny" bit out of your precis?

[NAF]

Rich,

Finegan sounds like a complete gentleman to me in all of his writings.  I actually ran into him at Sand Hills and in fact he was a very classy guy.  I think the misconception from my post is he was waiting to tee off on the first and the 2 members decided to go in front of him which didnt make much sense.  He probably viewed it as a slight faux pas but he maintains he didnt hold the ladies up at all but one of them decided to take him to task.

[TEPaul]

Jim Finegan is definitely not a jerk. Slightly eccentric might describe him though--(I'd like to be eccentric like Jim is!). If you think Jim Finegan's writing is good you should hear and see him speak---it's truly a show!

I would think Jim Finegan could probably be called a purist in architecture but more of a purist who truly understands both the benefits and drawbacks of the evolution in and of  architecture. It'd actually be great if he would come on this site because in my book he's about ten times more valuable in that particular way than anyone I'm aware of on Golfclubatlas.

But he never will come on here. I don't think Jim even knows or cares what a computer is. I once asked him if he had email and I heard one hell of a long shrill cackle on the other end of the phone and then he said he felt he was just getting his Underwood typewriter properly broken in after about 50 years.

But Jim is the kind of guy who would probably be quite happy if you put him on any golf course--basically he just has a ball playing the game of golf.

There's a funny little story I might've once put on here about the way Jim can be on a golf course.

Michael Bamberger who's a good friend of Jim's invited him over to play at Philly Cricket Club and on #16 tee Michael wasn't really paying attention but he then realized that Jim should have teed off so he looked back to the tee and Jim was just standing on the tee with his arms stretched out like Moses.

Michael said; "Is there anything wrong Jim?" And then Jim roars; "Look at this--this is a classic AMERICAN dogleg left!!!"

Michael always roars with laughter over that story since who has any real idea what the difference is between any classic dogleg left and a classic AMERICAN dogleg left?

Obviously the only one who really knows is Jim Finegan--a real American classic himself!

[ForkaB]

NAF

You've played Rye.  You know that there is a big sign on the first tee saying, amongst other things, that "Single players have no standing on the course."  The ladies were perfectly correct in teeing off in front of Finegan.  The fact that he cut back in front of them on the 4th, and then was playing so slowly that they managed to catch up to him on the 5th, and that he said NOTHING to them, no "Sorry, Ma'am" or anything, after being upbraided tells me that if the guy is not a jerk he is from planet Mongo.  TE Paul's anecdotes seem to confirm this, although I'll concede that he might be the greatest thing since sliced bread in person.  He is a decent writer, I'll admit.......

[NAF]

Rich, you are absolutely right about that sign but perhaps in the style of Royal St. Georges where ladies do not exist, JF was hoping the ladies would let him play first with no one there.

I will say this, I never EVER had to wait for a shot my 3 trips around Rye. We even played in back of what I think was a Lt. Col (monacle in tow) and his grandson) and the old man had a pipe in hand the whole round and we had to boogie to keep up with them.  Special breed the members of Rye.


Or maybe JF couldnt wait to play #4..It is on my all world list!

[ForkaB]

NAF

#4 is all-world.  Finegan is still on double secret probation.

[TEPaul]

That story at Rye shows Jim's off-beat sense of humor more than anything--he's definitely a real gentleman!

Here's another story about Jim I love.

One time a friend of mine, Mike Nilon, a real good player from Philly C.C, Jim's home course, was driving Jim somewhere on a turnpike. Jim is a small very wiry man and Jim was sitting quietly in the back of one of those big two door BMWs that Mike Nilon had just bought.

So after a while Jim asks Mike how fast the car could go, so Mike says, "I'll show you". Mike gets the car going about 150 mph and Jim Finegan is just sitting in the back quietly saying nothing watching the countryside fly by. Mike thought this would have to scare the beeejus out of Jim but he just sat in the back quietly not saying a word. So Mike slows down and Jim has still not said a word. About ten minutes later Jim asks Mike how much this car costs. Mike said about $60,000 (and this was over ten years ago). So about ten more minutes go by with Jim sitting quietly in the back and all of a sudden Mike Nilon hears Jim say in this high shrill voice; "REEEEDICULOUS!!!"

That's more classic Jim Finegan.

[Bob_Huntley]

After reading Finegan's books on golf in Scotland and Ireland I couldn't wait to speak to him. I dialled 411, got his number and had a delightful chat.

Apart from his writing skills he must be the 'Great Persuader' as his wife trudges along with him on these obscure golf courses, sometimes in abominable weather, with nary a complaint.

Now to my good friend Rihc, tell me you have never pulled a stunt  such as hopping around the course?

[ForkaB]

Bbo

I'm a world class hopper.  One of my favo(u)rite rounds at my local home course consists,  of 1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4, 11, 12, 13, 14, 13, 14, 15, 16, pub.

If, however, two ladies catch up to me as a single and ask to play through me (not that this has ever happened ....) I always (hypothetically) conform to Section 1 ETIQUETTE of the Rules of Golf and let them through.  Following Section 1 ETIQUETTE of the Rules of Life, I always (hypothetically) say "Sorry for being such an ignorant slow bastard, Ma'am.  Enjoy the rest of your round."

[Norbert P]

My good blade carves the casques of men,
   My tough lance thrusteth sure,
My strength is as the strength of ten,
   Because my heart is pure.   ...

...  "O just and faithful knight of God!
   Ride on the prize is near."
So pass I hostel, hall, and grange;
   By bridge and ford, by park and pale,
All-arm'd I ride, whate'er betide,
   Until I find the holy Grail.

 Excerpts of 'Sir Galahad' by Lord Tennyson

 Thanks for the news of new book.  Onward Rocanante !

[TEPaul]

"Then one of the ladies gives him a stern tongue lashing from about 10 feet away on the 5th hole and threatens to go to the club secretary."

Perhaps Jim Finegan shouldn't have cut these ladies off, or whatever he did, but saying nothing (not reacting negatively) and beating a hasty retreat is classic Jim Finegan.

Giving Finegan a 'stern tongue lashing' is sort of the equivalent of golf course road rage in my book. Etiquette in golf cuts both ways although most never think of it that way!

It sort of reminds me of something that once happened to me at a good private course in Florida. I bought a couple of bags of balls on the range, hit some balls, hung about two practice ball bags on my golf bag and went and putted. When I looked over at the range these two ladies had taken my practice balls off my bag and were hitting them--so I walked back and asked them why they did that. Both of them got defensive as hell asked me who the hell I thought I was and that they were going to report me to the club secretary or whoever.

I should have just said what Jim Finegan did in Nilon's car---"REEEEDICULOUS"--and walked away.

[ed_getka]

James Finegan is a class act in my book(a little eccentric as noted above, but a really nice guy). A few years ago I was trying to get his Scotland and Ireland books signed. I wrote him a letter, no response. I called his number, no response. Tom Paul called him on my behalf, and Jim called me and we talked for over an hour. He instructed me to rip out the pages regarding Carnoustie since the course had been changed so much for the Open, and preceded to entertain me for the next hour with many anecdotes, and wished me well in my attempts to learn more about golf course architecture.

He considers typewriters fairly new technology so I'm quite sure we won't be hearing from Jim here. If I remember right he didn't even type his first book, he wrote it out longhand.

Thanks for the post Ran, I'll be heading down to pick up a copy tomorrow.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I do not have the stories about Finegan that many of you have. I did meet him in St. Andrews in 2001. He was a delightful gentleman  and as noted above has a gift of conversation that surpases his considerable writing skills. I find his books to be amoung the most enjoyable and accurate golf travel book writers ever.

[Paul_Turner]

I enjoyed Finegan's book, he's made a good effort to visit some little known courses like Beau Desert and Brockenhurst Manor and it's quite comprehensive.  

Although being the obsessive that I am, I can think of about 20+ English courses that could have been included and a few Welsh too:

For example, I was a bit disappointed that he didn't visit the Bournemouth area for Broadstone, Parkstone, Ferndown and Purbeck.

Also, he's lost the plot when it comes to Worlington and makes me wonder if he really appreciates the subtler aspects of golf courses. His reasoning that Darwin et al were blinded by loyalty etc, conveniently neglects the respect that Doak and others have for the course.  Conversely, he does appear to love the spectacular (in his other books too), perhaps it comes from playing Pine Valley so often!?   Well at least he marches to his own drum!

Why he likes The Oxfordshire is difficult to fathom, it's truly awful, then again he is a friend of Rees Jones.

But, he's dead right about Sandwich!

Ran

I think he might be wrong about Beau Desert.  Hawtree proposed that the greens be softened, but I don't think it was implemented.  I'll check the club history.  They're still a very fine and well contoured set.

[Ran Morrissett]

Tom,

If one agrees with another's opinion 60-70% of the time, does that mean they have similar tastes? If so, Jim and I have similar tastes.  

The most noted differences range from courses that posssess towering dunes like Carne and Birkdale where I don't see much strategic interest to his surprising comments on courses with more subdued topography like Carnoustie ("there is no magic"), Lytham, Troon ("if you tee off without anticipating the pleasurable excitement of a truly great seaside course, you will enjoy your round a lot more"), and Worlington (as Paul points out) where I see strategic interest. To say Saunton East lacks great holes and is therefore not a great course ala Birkdale doesn't ring true  - are its great holes (14, 16) any less great than Birkdale's best? (As an aside, and he may not have had input, I wouldn't choose the 18th at Birkdale for the cover).

To his credit,  he remains open-minded in an effort to be fair.  For instance, in regards to Lytham he states that it is "too often flattish and featureless and charmless" with which I would disagree but he goes on to say that Lytham "... is on no account to be missed. It is a bona fide shrine, and you may well find more appealing than I do."

Anyone who ends an account on St. Enodoc by picking it if he could be magically transported to but one course in the world is a man worth reading! Plus, he shrewdly calls the front at Royal St. Georges his favorite front in golf. Plus, his account of Brora was eye-opening seven years ago and he deserves a ton of credit for that one find alone.

It is a rainy, cold day here in Southern Pines and All Courses Great and Small is the perfect antidote. Finegan always provides his reasoning for his likes/dislikes and that's all one can ever ask.

Cheers,

[TEPaul]

I think I'm gonna pick up the phone and ask Jim Finegan to send me a free copy of "All Courses Great and Small" just so I can hear that terrific high cackling screech--REEEDICULOUS!! at the other end!

[Sean_A]

I thought this thread was interesting, especially as I like all of the GB&I Trilogy. 

I am still amazed to read Finegan's words on Pennard.  He must be more than very high on the place. 

It is also very interesting how Finegan delineates between "great" and "superlative" in relation to golf courses. 

Like, Paul notes, it is perplexing the courses Finegan skipped and the courses he played.  I get the feeling he always tried to tie in lovely country hotels as part of the deal - perhaps with his wife?

In any case, Beau Desert did do some work to soften the greens, in particular the 15th (which is still not quite enough), but much of the advise was followed for dear that subsidence would occur again and they would be back to square one.   

Ciao

[mike_malone]

 I took Finegan's book with me to the U.K. this time. I read about the courses I was going to play some months before the trip. But, then  I  reread about them on the plane over and the night before I played each course. Finally, I went back to read about each course again after I played them. I thought he was spot on for each course.

[Bill_McBride]

I took Finegan's book with me to the U.K. this time. I read about the courses I was going to play some months before the trip. But, then  I  reread about them on the plane over and the night before I played each course. Finally, I went back to read about each course again after I played them. I thought he was spot on for each course.

Mike, after reading the account of Finnegan's Rye encounter with the two ladies, I was also wondering how in hell they could have gotten close enough to him to chew him out on the 5th.  Maybe he played #4 like you did!