[Mike Benham]

Are the shapes of the bunkers original or were they "restored"?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Passing Time, I plead the 5th   - but I don't know the answer to the 2nd question.  Ask Tom Doak.

[Robert Kimball]

I love this picture.  After you reveal the hole, please share how you got that great angle.  

This hole is a pretty tough par-3 from what I remember.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Rob,

I already revealed it - I just translated....

[Mike Benham]

Are the shapes of the bunkers original or were they "restored"?

Scott has a knack for these aerials ... this is the 5th at Pasatiempo in a late afternoon sun.  The tee box is to the right (about the 3 o'clock position) and the hole location pictured is perhaps the most difficult to get the tee shot close to.

As for the bunkering, this overhead shows the different shapes but it does not show the change in elevation from the front to the back of the green or the height of the lips of the bunkers.  The larger oval one is almost like a volcano.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Do they ever put the pin in the front right strip?   If not, then
perhaps some green needs to be recaptured toward the bunkers.


Here's a pic from the tee, sent to me by Mr. WAOG:

[THuckaby2]

Scott sure as hell does have a knack - wow!  Great get...

And oh yes, this is a very difficult hole.  That green is a stone bitch, contoured to bejesus, and at at significant speed the toungue on the front (right side of this pic) is a really a false front - the ball won't stay on it.  Makes for some damn hard chips to a back left pin from down there... hell any chip on to this green is gonna be tough, due to the contour.. and it's a very tough green to hit, because it's relatively small, looks even smaller from the tee (volcano right bunker obscures view of the back left), and it plays about 185 uphill (effectively 200).

We had a fun time with this hole in the NCGA rating process... many odd variables came out.

TH

[THuckaby2]

Scott - I have never seen a pin in the front right strip - it's pretty severely contoured down and at normal speed the ball won't stay - so it's effectively a false front.  God that would be a devil pin at slower speeds... wow....

And that's an interesting idea, recapturing green toward the bunkers.  Just do note that the slopes off the bunkers are very severe also, so if it were cut as green, the ball would just roll back... in effect making the hole a bit easier... and adding for the wildest types of putts and chips using these side-slopes even more than one can now... hell of an idea.

  TH

[Mike_Cirba]

In playing Pasa, I was surprised to see so much space between the green surfaces and the bunkers.  I assumed that greenspace had been lost, as did Geoffrey C who was playing in our group.

After the round we went into the clubhouse where there is a large, old aerial from around the time of course conception.  What we found is that by and large, that is the way it was built.  Lots of space between bunkers and greens....

[THuckaby2]

Yet another reason Pasa is so cool - all those great aerials right there on display for confirmation of things like this.

Isn't this type of thing kinda typical of MacKenzie? That is, space between bunkers and greens....

So here's the $64K question:  which way plays better, at today's speeds?

Something about cutting that space to green height on #5 intrigues me... but it would surely be a maintenance headache given the severe slopes off the bunkers, and while it would seem to make for some damn fun chips and putts...I can't decide in the end if this is a net positive or not.  Anyone?

TH

[Mike Benham]

I find it interesting that from Scott's photo, the bunkering looks wonderful while the overhead imparts a different reaction.  Did Doak do any work to these bunkers?

[THuckaby2]

I don't know if the Doak group worked on #5.

But I do know that golf is played at ground level.  

TH

[Brian_Gracely]

Isn't this type of thing kinda typical of MacKenzie? That is, space between bunkers and greens....

In Geoff's book about CPC, there is a specific comment from MacKenzie that bunkers should border up to the edges of the putting surface.  I think it's in the section talking about the 4th hole.  Not sure if he believed this is philosophy in general or just for CPC.

[THuckaby2]

Interesting.... funny how he specifically doesn't do that at Pasa, and a few others... or is it that his wishes weren't carried out in construction and/or maintenance?

Gotta love the Good Doctor.

And this is a job for Shackelford or Doak or other MacKenzie experts.  

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

Just to clarify, the Mr. WAOG reference above is Mr. World Atlas of Golf, Mark Rowlinson.

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