[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

could you explain why it was filled in and why access was denied to the left side fairway ?

The angle or view provided by the fairway makes the hole look awkward, and the bunkers would appear to prevent substantive advancement of the ball, especially from the right side which seems to require a good carry over the marsh in order to get to the green.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Mike,

could you explain why it was filled in and why access was denied to the left side fairway ?

The angle or view provided by the fairway makes the hole look awkward, and the bunkers would appear to prevent substantive advancement of the ball, especially from the right side which seems to require a good carry over the marsh in order to get to the green.

That long carry over marsh was the reason that we got the variance from the OCRM to fill in the marsh area on the left side of the fairway.  The left side of the fairway provides the best angle to attack the green.

The distance to the marsh crossing from the bridge is only about 280 yards from the back tees so most fairly long players generally used a 3 wood off the tee.  The "horseshoe" of marsh started at about 240ish from the tee.  Any shot pulled to the left quarter of the fairway would find it.

The pot bunkers, according to Pete, are designed to repel balls, not collect them.  I've played the course dozens of times since he put them in and I can't recall anyone getting in one of them.  They're strictly meant to be a directional aide.

[BigEdSC]

Mike
   Just like when an announcer says that a basketball player has not missed a fre throw all season, and he chungs it, I've reached one of the bunkers.  From there, your only option is to wedge it out and hope that you can hit the green from a long ways and make bogey.

[Mike_Cirba]

Does anyone know if the center hazard on #15 at Oakland Hills was an original Ross bunker or one added by RTJ Sr.?

If the latter, it might be the only centerline hazard he created that I'm familiar with.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Mike
   Just like when an announcer says that a basketball player has not missed a fre throw all season, and he chungs it, I've reached one of the bunkers.  From there, your only option is to wedge it out and hope that you can hit the green from a long ways and make bogey.

Ain't it always the case.  The closest I've seen is with the golf writer from the Charleston Post & Courier, Tommy Braswell.  Just after I give him that spiel, he proceeds to miss it by inches, getting caught up in the rough in front of it.  He, too, had to lay up in front of the marsh crossing...

[BigEdSC]

Probably to clarify my question.  If the bunkers are supposed to be directional bunkers, then place them "way out."  ANd I'm not an architect, but to me, the Ocean Course is hard for the average player.  

For someone to hit a good shot to a large landing area and land in the bunker, and get penalized as much as someone who slices it into the marsh, does not sest right with me.  Some of the courses that I've played has had centerline hazards, but in some cases, you can play the ball forward.  In this case, you absolutely can't because of the marsh ahead.  I know, golf is not supposed to be fair, I just feel that the bunkers just are out of place where they are at.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Probably to clarify my question.  If the bunkers are supposed to be directional bunkers, then place them "way out."  ANd I'm not an architect, but to me, the Ocean Course is hard for the average player.  

For someone to hit a good shot to a large landing area and land in the bunker, and get penalized as much as someone who slices it into the marsh, does not sest right with me.  Some of the courses that I've played has had centerline hazards, but in some cases, you can play the ball forward.  In this case, you absolutely can't because of the marsh ahead.  I know, golf is not supposed to be fair, I just feel that the bunkers just are out of place where they are at.

There is about 35 yards between the marsh on the left and the fairway bunkers, about the side of normal fairways.  If you slice the ball into the area of the bunkers, you deserve to be penalized.  Here's how the old fairway was shaped.  As you can see, players had to hit it to the right then had a hellish carry over marsh to reach the green.  Letting players play more to the left gives them a chance to bounce the ball into the green.

[JSlonis]

At Applebrook GC, Gil Hanse effectively uses centerline hazards on a couple of holes.

#3- on the short par 4, if you choose to lay up you must contend with a centerline pot bunker.

#16(?)- par 5, there is a centerline bunker in the landing area of your second shot.  I really like this hazard, you can play every way around it-right,left,short,long...it definitely makes the golfer think, which is a rare occasion for most 2nd shot layups on par 5's.   I've often found the layup 2nd shot into par fives to be the most boring shot in golf, because too many times there really isn't any strategy or thought involved, except what distance you want to leave yourself for the third shot.

[BigEdSC]

Mike

I really think, and I'm sure that you'll agree that the hole is better now, than it was.  If you plan on growing rough around the bunkers, and shifting the fairway to the left, then they no longer will be center line bunkers.  I just don't prefer them in the middle of a fairway.  I guess I shouldn't rag so bad, the Old course in Scotland is full of these types of bunkers and some people think it's a good track.

Another hole that comes to mind I thought of last night was #17 at Crooked Oaks.  It's a large yawning bunker, right in the landing area.  Either try and carry the bunker with a 300 yard drive (doubtful) or hit it short and have a roughly 190 yard shot to the green.  And to compound it with OB right and left.

[Mike Hendren]

A few others:

4th at Talking Stick South
5th at Talking Stick North
12th at Black Creek
9th at North Berwick West Links - the most strategic of those mentioned.  Reachable par 5 w/ centerline bunker at 230 yards plus/minus.  Left is shorter and affords a better angle into the green, but OB is tight to the left.  Plenty of room on the right (trust me!) but long-iron or fairway metal must carry a bunker fronting the elevated green from that angle.  

Mike

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