What are the best skyline greens in the US ?

[RJ_Daley]

There are too many skyline shots at Sand Hills to go through them, one-by-one.  Some are off tees to skyline fairways, some are shots from tees or fairways to greens.  In the treeless environment, how can you not have a few?  At Sand Hills, one side of a fairway can have an awesome skyline shot to a green with nothing but green contour and sky looking down at you, and the other side of the FW- not so vague, displaying some back ground for depth perception.

Wild Horses best skyline green is 16.  I think the boys didn't get it right out at Bayside in Ogallala on the second or third shot into 15.  

As for Whistling Straits #16, it is so-so.  But, in the endless horizon theme, #13 at the straits is pretty good, I think, followed by #8.

But, Rees nailed it at Torrey Pines as noted above.  I think Proctor and Axeland did a fair one at #11 Bayside as well.   However, I think those two are a sub-category of skyline that mimicks the trendy fashion of the horizonless pool concept, with the endless horizon backdropped by water.  Great stuff, nonetheless...

[TEPaul]

Fellows:

Most of those photos are some gorgeous vistas behind greens but they aren't "skyline" greens. The only possible way I could see to make most of those holes skyline greens would be to get flat on your stomach on the fairway and even then I doubt most of those greens would be "skylines". Skyline greens are greens whose backdrops are all sky.

[Jim_Kennedy]

AWWW, man !!!

[TEPaul]

JimK

Are you in pain? If so, would you like me to call Dr. Katz?

[SPDB]

SPDB:

I think #13 Pipinng would be a great skyline green and obviously once was; unfortunately those enormous trees way behind the green down by the tennis courts are too big and you'd have to be right underneath the green extremely close to the green to make it work and being that close sort of makes it lose it's effectiveness.

Tom - #13 is almost certainly a skyline from the valley where approach shots are typically made. I guess you could make the argument that if you laid back before the gully, it might not be a skyline, but from the drainage it most certainly is.

The trees by the tennis court are at least 500 yards away across the 14th, then 15th, and the tennis courts that are on a direct line with the green. With a sand wedge, the only thing you can see is green and sky.

Ran? Help!

[D._Kilfara]

Gotta love Shinnecock Hills #11...actually, there are probably quite a few greens at Shinnecock which fit the bill from certain angles (e.g. #9 and #10, no?).

Cheers,
Darren

[TEPaul]

SPDB:

Perhaps you're right that those trees back there can't be seen when you're in front of #13 Piping Rock. I grew up on that golf course and God knows how many times I played it back then but to be honest with you I can't really remember whether it was all sky behind the green when down in front of it.

See those enormous trees way back there that are over 100 ft high? Well, I'm so old when I was growing up around that course they were only 2ft high. Those trees back there are on the other side of the last half of #18 btw.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

TEPaul is correct.

A skyline green is one where only the green is visible and nothing behind it.

When I last played # 5 at The Creek there was the fairway, the green complex and the sky.

That is what I define as a skyline green

Redanman,

There's a number of big trees behind # 2 green at Lehigh.

[TEPaul]

redanman said;

"#2 at Lehigh CC is a really good one, but the super hasn't cut down the two trees that I told him to cut down as of yet.  I am still waiting."

redanman:

I hope you're an extremely patient man. Did you bother to ask the green committee first or did you just tell JohnC on your own to go cut those trees behind #2 down?

[SPDB]

Pat - 5 at the creek is played along a slight (marginal) upslope, such that you can actually use the ground to approach the green. immediately behind it is the road down to the beach club and trees that run along the side of 6. Perhaps if the green was moved to the right it would have only the sound (or sky) in its backdrop, but currently it has trees.

Wanna do double or nothing on our Merion bet?

TE Paul,
the trees you see immediately behind 13 are small trees in between 18 and 14, and are really only visible from the high perspective from which the picture in my original post was shot. from the gully you are looking up at the green, and the trees to the far side of the tennis courts (with 18 and 14 in between) are not visible on a plane even or above the green surface.

[SPDB]

Fazio also built a pretty nice skyline green on 16 at Hartefeld. no dispute on that one (at least on the issue of whether its a skyline)  

[Mike Benham]

As noted earlier, the 6th at Pebble is a wonderful example of a skyline green as viewed from the fairway ...

http://www.pebblebeach.com/1a6a.html

The depth perception is the biggest challenge on these greens as they tend to be slightly uphill with no reference points.  Bunkers seem to have a slightly bigger lip and face also causing pain to your depth perception ...

[Buck Wolter]

Arcadia Bluffs has a great example on #3 a Par 5. From the picture it's hard to see but you play your shot second and third shots up hill and all you can see is the horizon and Lake Michigan with a 4 ft wooden flag sticking up as a target. It looks like there's no room whatsoever to land your shot when in actuality it's a fairly large green. Since the water is viewable and not just the sky, perhaps it's a lakeline green per TEPaul.

[Scott_Burroughs]

#2 at Lost Canyons - Shadow:



and less so, #2 at the SKy course:

[Mike_Cirba]

Sean;

Agree with you on 16 at Hartefeld National.  It's a superb skyline green.  

And you probably thought I was a knee-jerk, Fazio basher!

Also;

Although not in the US, one of the best skyline greens is on the par three 7th at Muirfield.  

[Pete_Kilhern]

I vote for No. 10 at Yale.

You cannot see the putting surface from the fairway.  You just look up and see the sky and hope that your second shot lands on the green.

[Mike_Cirba]

Pete;

I just took you to task for your comments on the Golf DIgest ratings thread.

Still, anyone who loves and appreciates the 10th at Yale is immediately a compadre of mine!!!  

[Pete_Kilhern]

Mike Cirba - Ignore my comments on the other thread.  If you appreciate Yale as much as I do, then you are a gifted rater for Golfweek.  I do wonder about some of the other raters, however.

[paul cowley]

....in our internal design vocabulary,we commonly refer to any green complex where the green surface itself is the highest element of the complex as a'horizon line green',regardless of the near or far backdrop....#3 at pinehurst #2 is a good example.
    a hole that has rear mounding would not qualify, regardless if the green had a pushed up surface or not.
    we also refer to 'partial horizon line greens' on side hill sites.

....i agree that the true 'sky line greens' are too far and few between.......

[SPDB]

#2 at Lost Canyons - Shadow:

and less so, #2 at the SKy course:

Scott, I don't think either of those are skyline greens. In the first pic, the green is, for the most part, shelved into the side of the hill and therefore framed by it. It doesn't create the skyline (horizon line), but is, rather, a lower part of it.

The second pic is below the skyline, which are framed by the rumpled (dunes?) behind it.

[Paul_Turner]

The upper green at Pacific Dunes 9th?  It must be close to a skyline green, particularly if your tee shot is on in that hollow, although you might be able to just see a distant cliff on the coast?

I think the left hand green at the 9th at Pine Valley would be super as a skyline green, I'm sure that more shots would end up plummeting off the "cliff" if it were.  Imagine the recovery shot from the 18th fairway?!  If the trees were cleared all down the the left side of the 10th, perhaps it wouldn't look too weird?  (Although, would the 9th greens be in danger from the duck hook off the 18th?)

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Pete Kilhern,

Isn't there a forest of trees behind the 10th at YALE ?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Sean,

Compared to some of the ones with trees right behind the green others are suggesting....

[SPDB]

Scott - if you're making reference to the Piping Rock photo, I can assure you it is a skyline green, prom the perspective where approach shots are made (not the perspective of the photo). The key elements are there, a pushed up green that from the golfer's perspective creates the highest point on the horizon line. A not-so-great analogy: try to imagine the green as occupying the roof of the Wachovia Tower, and the city of W-S as the greensite.

[TEPaul]

"I think the left hand green at the 9th at Pine Valley would be super as a skyline green, I'm sure that more shots would end up plummeting off the "cliff" if it were.  Imagine the recovery shot from the 18th fairway?!  If the trees were cleared all down the the left side of the 10th, perhaps it wouldn't look too weird?  (Although, would the 9th greens be in danger from the duck hook off the 18th?)"

Paul;

I doubt the 9th green would be in much danger from a hook off the 18th tee but that alone is probably possible enough to think twice about removing all the trees behind #9 and along the left of #10. The trees are so much larger and higher than they once were and clearing all the trees off the left of #10 I'm certain would never be considered, nor should it, in my book.

But it's interesting you say imagine the recovery back to #9 from the 18th behind and below it. I think a club has a research responsibility if they're thinking of restoring something to find out why it was changed in the first place. In the case of the Maxwell alteration to the original left #9 and also part of the reason to build right #9 was for that very reason that too many balls were going over left #9 and down onto #18 behind and below it.

Maxwell, lengthened the front of left #9 and bunkered behind it to prevent that from happening as well as recontouring the green.

My point here is if the reasons for altering a green in the first place can actually accurately be determined then the club certainly should be wary of doing anything with restoration that would basically recreate that very same original situation or problem.