[Lou_Duran]

There are a number of them on the RTJ Trail in Alabama, often involving huge bridges over lakes or wet lands, and a meandering $1mm wooden structure (at the Judge?) to get from the bottom of the course back up to the clubhouse.

However, the longest walk/ride (1.5 to 2 miles?) I know of is from the clubhouse at Sand Hills to the first tee.  And I have actually witnessed someone walk it after suffering a bout with heat stroke!

[Dan Kelly]

However, the longest walk/ride (1.5 to 2 miles?) I know of is from the clubhouse at Sand Hills to the first tee.  And I have actually witnessed someone walk it after suffering a bout with heat stroke!

On this score, Sutton Bay gives Sand Hills a ride for its money!

[Tim_Weiman]

Rich Goodale:

I'm not aware of making any "errors", unless you consider not reading every thread or not knowing the background of every person who participates here such a thing.

I didn't read the thread you mentioned and know nothing about Robin. However, my experience working on international project teams - including experience working in the UK - provided many examples of where communications across different cultures can fail miserably. Robin didn't come across as either British or funny, just as someone taking a shot at UK golfers which seemed rather pointless to me.

Getting back to architecture, I'm not even sure why I bothered to open this thread in the first place and, given the topic, wasn't the least bit inclined to think it came from someone across the pond. Hell, I don't even think about carts when I'm playing over there.

Here in the States the worst cart golf I can remember is a place called Dunes West near Charleston. It features several long rides through a housing development.....everything I can't stand when it comes to golf courses.

Tim

[John_Cullum]

The entire trip around TPC Sugarloaf. I think the trip from 1 tee to 18 green is about 7.5 miles.

[Allan Long]

Two that come to mind are 5 to 6 at Kapalua, and 7 to 8 at Puakea (Lihue, Kauai). The trek at Kapalua is hefty, but the
ride at Puakea had to be in the neighborhood of  7-8 minutes
long.

[Robin_Hiseman]

Robin Hiseman,

I find your comments about British golfers offensive. GCA has a serious problem being too USA centric with participation by Europeans woefully inadequate. Comments like yours only make the problem worse.

If you are going to post here, clean up your act.

Tim

I'm sorry for any offence.  It was only a joke to draw you into the thread.  Of course most British golfers can hit the ball 30 yards, especially with all the new technology now available.

[ForkaB]

Tim

One of the GCA stalwarts pointed me to a recent post from another stalwart who recently said on another topic:

"I feel passionately that our discussion should avoid personal attacks, avoid "chat" like posts and work towards attracting more industry and international participation."

You should listen to this person.  He often has some interesting things to say on this forum.

All the best

Rich

[JohnV]

Given the abuse Sandpines has taken over the years around here, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the walk from #6 to #7 there.

The ride to the first tee at the Experience at Koele was pretty long and since I read something that makes be believe that they've reversed the nines, that would now be from 9 to 10.

All the rides at Manele Bay seemed long.

The haul from the 15th green to the 16th tee at Eagle Point is about as tough a climb as any, while the distance from 9 to 10 is also long.

The trip from 9 to 10 at the Ocean Course at Kiawah might be one of the longer trips between 9s.

[Dan Kelly]

Of course most British golfers can hit the ball 30 yards, especially with all the new technology now available.

The line of the year (to date).

And not a smiley in sight -- thank God!

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Robin,

Kiawah - Ocean Course 9 Green to 10 Tee.  Anyone who has played will know how long that is!

Yea, but we now serve full meals and offer a movie...   8)Actually, for our walkers, we give transportation from the clubhouse to the first tee, between 9 green and 10 tee and from 18 back to the clubhouse...

[Robin_Hiseman]

Maybe, as the originator of this thread I should steer the discussion in a slightly different direction.  

It is fascinating to hear that there are now so many instances of long cart rides between holes.  What I am really wondering is if the advent of cart-only, or cart recommended courses is having a profound on the effect on how the golf architect assesses the site?  How much is it now a case of the architect looking at a piece of terrain and thinking 'Hmmm, don't fancy that much, let's stick a cart track through there and go find somewhere better', or are they a godsend, because it means that the architect can skip past some topographical, or vegetative obstacle that would otherwise entail either a, huge construction costs, b, massive environmental damage, or c, render the site unworkable?

Three courses prompted me to start this.  Stone Mountain (which I mentioned) and two Mike Strantz layouts, 1. Stonehouse (which Tom Doak spotted) and 2.  Royal New Kent, which I loved as an utterly amazing piece of design, but can in no way be described as a flowing layout.  I am sure that there are many good reasons why these courses are so spread out and it may well be the case that if buggies didn't exist that many of the magnificent modern courses that rely on them simply could not have been built in their locations.

From my own perspective I am currently planning a layout that has to have a 400m walk between two holes - and it kills me, because it totally interrupts the pace of the round.  Do other architects who have planned courses with these enforced breaks feel the same, or do you get used to it and be thankful that such an effective 'cheat' is an option?

[Tim_Weiman]

Robin,

Thanks for touching base. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive on the subject of US-European relations. It comes from working in the UK and France, and an occasional golf game over there.

Just to satisfy Rich Goodale's wise and gentle suggestion about avoiding the "chat" I really can't stand, can you share what makes you interested in the subject of cart golf?

What do you see happening with carts in your part of the world? Is the resistance to carts over there breaking down?

Tim

[Scott_Burroughs]

The Reynolds course at Tanglewood Park near Winston-Salem, NC has a 3/4 mile distance to the 10th tee (the distance is on the scorecard and in the clubhouse, I believe).  I hitched a ride my one time playing the whole course (played front only the other).

TPC Sugarloaf mentioned the 7.5 mile distance of the course.  Royal New Kent (mentioned above) is 13 miles of cart paths - but I didn't ride.  Stonehouse is probably in the 13 mile neighboorhood, as well, but I didn't ride there either.    Neither is nearly that long walking.

In terms of vertical rise between 9's, Governor's Club near Chapel Hill, NC has a big rise between the 2nd and 3rd nines.  Even the Virginia Tech golf course went up a big hill (the steep sledding/tubing hill) to the 10th tee.

Didn't someone mention long rides at Cimarron Hills in NorCal between a couple of holes?  Or was that another up there?

[THuckaby2]

Didn't someone mention long rides at Cimarron Hills in NorCal between a couple of holes?  Or was that another up there?

It's Cinnabar Hills - yahooo!  For once Scott doesn't have my home down better than I do.  

And there are a few long treks there, but nothing like those mentioned in this thread. There are many around here that are far worse than my beloved one-time before it got too expensive home.

Coyote Creek Valley course (south San Jose, seen from 101) has a few that are mind-benders... not because they are overly long, but because the next tee isn't the one you think, right next to you, but rather you pass it up and head to a tee off in the distance.

TH

TH

[ChasLawler]

Robin, I brought up a similar topic a little while back.

here's the link if it works
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=7189;start=msg138836#msg138836

 

[texsport]

Jeff Brauer probably can quantify the length -- but there's one cart ride on the back 9 at Giants Ridge (Legend) that, if I'm not mistaken, begins in one time zone and ends in another.

No fault of Mr. Brauer's. Environmental necessity, as I understand it.

Remember: This is the place where someone was concerned about fish being killed by balls entering the water hazard at the 17th hole. See http://www.giantsridge.com/courses/legend/tour/17/

Yeah, but the moose, deer and bears that you see enroute make the trip worth while.

I'm not kidding either!

TXsport

[Scott_Burroughs]

Huck,

Cimarron didn't sound right, but I didn't feel like doing the research this time.    I remember you (or other NorCallers) mentioning that one course could use a cart ride "drop-off" (like at Kiawah-Ocean) across a bridge, etc. , then you'd pick it up going back across later - but otherwise the course was pretty walkable.

And anyways, SoCal is more up my alley!  

[Lou_Duran]

Cimarron Hills is a very nice Nicklaus signature course near Georgetown, TX.  The course has but two problems: rocks everywhere just off the fairway AND some cart mileage.

To address the thread originator's primary point, I do think that while carts give the archies and developers greater flexibility in building courses which cannot stand alone without a real estate component or on those sites not readily suitable for golf, the routings generally suffer.  For me at least, the flow of the round is important and I hate long distances between holes, and particularly, when it involves walking or riding back toward where you just came from.

There are exceptions.  The walk between 15 green and 16 tee at CPC enhances rather than detracts from the experience.  However, by modern standards, that is a relatively short hike.  Knowing what there is waiting me, I probably wish that it was a tad longer.

 

[John_Conley]

In Orlando:

#1 green to #2 tee at Ekana (a/k/a Twin Rivers), a ride you "enjoy" again after #5 green getting back to the #6 tee.

#11 green to #12 tee at the Legacy Club at Alaqua Lakes.  12 tee was site of "Tiger Trap".

[THuckaby2]

Huck,

Cimarron didn't sound right, but I didn't feel like doing the research this time.    I remember you (or other NorCallers) mentioning that one course could use a cart ride "drop-off" (like at Kiawah-Ocean) across a bridge, etc. , then you'd pick it up going back across later - but otherwise the course was pretty walkable.

And anyways, SoCal is more up my alley!  

No hassles Scott, just giving you a hard time.  Not sure which course you are thinking of though... possibilities are Wente Vineyards (mentioned in this thread), where they take you by cart to the range and to the first tee, then everyone but the insane (which includes me) gets a ride up the mountain from 9 green to 10 tee... or maybe Bodega Harbor, where it's sort of the other way around - riders have to leave their carts at the foot of a bridge to play 16 and 17, walk those two holes (near the ocean), the pick up the cart again to play 18....

TH

[Big B]

I have not played it, but what about the bridges at Rancho Santa Fe?

[Joe Perches]

From my own perspective I am currently planning a layout that has to have a 400m walk between two holes - and it kills me, because it totally interrupts the pace of the round.

From my non-architect POV, one or more likely two 300 to 400m distances green->tee are not excessive to walk as long as the rest are the sub 100m, preferably sub 50m variety.

Vertical courses like Ted Robinson's Robinson Ranch Valley and Pete Dye's Lost Canyons Shadow where there are multiple 400m spacings with 50+m ascents are examples of excessive spacing between holes.

[A_Clay_Man]

nevermind

*post deleted by owners request

[THuckaby2]

gotcha

*my post also deleted

 

[Tyler Kearns]

Sutton Bay - clubhouse to 1st tee
Highlands Links - 13th green to 14th tee

Tyler Kearns

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