What ever happened to gathering bunkers?

[Ran Morrissett]

Are they still being built and I am just missing most of those courses? Which architects are incorporating them into their recent designs (do they deserve a medal)? Is it true that maintenance is an issue with gathering bunkers because the surrounding area must be (in part, at least) hand-mown?Many bunkers being built today are colossal in size but play small as a lot are just window-dressing and on the sides of fairways, sometimes well out of play.A course with small-ish bunkers that "play big" and that are completely surrounded by fairway sounds like a lot of fun. Do I have to go to the UK if that is what I want?

[TEPaul]

Ran:That's a great question. I remember hitting a lot of drives at Oakmont just the way I wanted to or thought I should only to find my ball in a fairway bunker when I got up there. It seems many of the Oakmont fairway bunkers are on the downslope side of fairways so its natural that they would gather balls.I knew nothing about reading design in those days and I guess I was looking at a hole shape like a left to right fairway and thinking the shot must be a nice fade up the left for a little run or whatever, not noticing that the bunker was on the right and was the gathering type. I never thought the shot may have been to hit a draw into the slope to hold it (it could also be that I can't hit a draw very well!)But that kind of wrinkle is pretty neat and subtle stuff. For variety I also like bunkering that is maybe somewhat directional that you can hit the ball at it or near it and have the ball run away from it, sort of along the line of some good holes (Merion) where the theme is to play the ball near to the danger for the ideal angle.Unfortunately some of the bunkering on my course where the ball will run away are really sort of lousy looking because they kind of pop out of the ground and look unnatural (these ones were definitely not original Ross).

[Lloyd Bickerton]

The Dunes course in the Mornington Peninsula has just such gathering bunkers, plus the course always plays firm so balls tend to seek them out. A young guy did the course but I don't recall his name.

[Bob Ellington]

Lloyd makes a good point - without firm conditions, gathering bunkers don't really gather and an architect could look silly if his strategy is ruined by sloppy maintenance.Could that be a discouraging factor in building them?

[Tom Naccarato]

Bob,I think that and other things like, "They don't photograph pretty enough" and "That bunker is totally Unfair, my golf ball ends up in it everytime" are more prime examples.I call it the "Tom Fazio Principle"  Simply put it is:  "Any hazard that comes into play is a BAD hazard.     Any hazard that sits outside the lines of play is a GOOD hazard.     Any Architect that designs a hazard in play is.......A BAD Architect.     Any Architect that designs hazards in play is a GOOD Architect.     Any Architect that designs beautiful hazards out of play is a GREAT Architect."This IS the thinking, trust me.By the way, I'm off the medication on this one.

[Tom_Doak]

Gathering bunkers are simply very hard to build in the modern era.The same contours which draw a ball into the bunker will also, unless one is very clever, bring in drainage water.  In the old days of hand-built links courses upon a sandy base, this was no problem.  But today, when the entire course has been run over with heavy equipment 40 times to seal up the soil, and golfers demand that the bunker sand be perfect and uncontaminated, letting drainage water go into a bunker is a sin.Most gathering bunkers are also difficult to see from the tee, and everyone condemns a blind hazard.I would love to build more of them, but it's very difficult to do.

[Ran Morrissett]

Given the requirement for sandy soil as per Tom's post above, wouldn't Pinehurst be an ideal place? Huge fairways with pine trees well back from play and gathering bunkers throughout? Starting to sound like the sister course to The Carthage Club.

[jeffwarne]

Gathering bunkers are simply very hard to build in the modern era.The same contours which draw a ball into the bunker will also, unless one is very clever, bring in drainage water.  In the old days of hand-built links courses upon a sandy base, this was no problem.  But today, when the entire course has been run over with heavy equipment 40 times to seal up the soil, and golfers demand that the bunker sand be perfect and uncontaminated, letting drainage water go into a bunker is a sin.Most gathering bunkers are also difficult to see from the tee, and everyone condemns a blind hazard.I would love to build more of them, but it's very difficult to do.

Any examples of functional gathering bunkers built in the last 13 years since this thread was started?

[Rick Shefchik]

I saw a few of them at Pacific Dunes last week.

[Nigel Islam]

That little pot bunker at Harbour Town's 14th immediately comes to my mind. Not that it is new.

[Wade Whitehead]

The bunker short and right of the green on #12 at Ballyhack is a gathering design.

I call it The Hemorrhoid.

WW

[Mark McKeever]

Theres a few good ones at Somerset Hills.  Especially around the greens.

Mark

[Greg Gilson]

There's a great one on the original 18'th (current 5'th) hole of the Old Course at The National on Australia's Mornington Peninsula. It's in the layup area of this uphill Par 5 & catches everything  20 metres in any direction around it. RTJ Jr design just over 20 years old. I'm sure there's a couse tour on here somewhere with a suitable photo?

[John Kirk]

If we're including sand-based courses, I'd characterize the primary carry bunkers on Old Macdonald #9, the Cape hole, as gathering bunkers.  A pair of very dangerous bunkers, by the way, almost a full stroke penalty.

[John Kirk]

Great timing.  Stolen from Jay Flemma on the Chambers Bay vs. Old Macdonald #18 thread:

[Sean_A]

Great timing.  Stolen from Jay Flemma on the Chambers Bay vs. Old Macdonald #18 thread:

I can't quite tell if this is a properly gathering bunker, but if it is, this is a perfect example of my ideal bunker.  Plays bigger than it looks, isn't obtrusive on the landscape or the eye and looks difficult to recover from.  I would take this over the bunkers further up everyday of the week.

Ciao

[Mike_Trenham]

The surrounds at St George's on Long Island are cut at fairway height making the play like gathering bunkers, would be interesting to know how they do that and don't have the edges collapse.

[Jay Flemma]

I'm still shocked no one's made a wise crack about my hat

[Ally Mcintosh]

I would think that there are hundreds of good gathering bunkers built in the last number of years on sand / fescue based courses.... where it must be front and centre in most designers minds that a hollow or fold in the ground would make for a good bunker as long as the aesthetics and strategy work... and once putting a bunker in is weighed against not putting a bunker in...

[Mark McKeever]

Great timing.  Stolen from Jay Flemma on the Chambers Bay vs. Old Macdonald #18 thread:

The annual maintenance cost on that bunker looks like its probably more than most golf courses.

Mark

[Michael Essig]

I'm still shocked no one's made a wise crack about my hat

What hat?  I was too focused on the beautiful alignment of the club and left arm.

[Jay Flemma]

I actually hit a great shot and got down in three from there! Bobby and Mike davis were impressed - "he got out and close to the green!" they said.

[Matthew Essig]

There are a few bunkers at Chambers Bay that gathers and eventually collects balls if hit near them.

[Patrick_Mucci]

To Ran's point, I think they're unpopular because they're deemed "unfair" by the modern day golfer.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I want to know the guy that is going to fly mow that bunker twice a week.  I am guessing he has to put a fly mow on a rope and swing it back and forth just to be able to get the grass all the way down at the bottom.  Then you have to blow all that mowed grass into a corner and shovel it out without taking out much sand.  That will be a maintenance nightmare.