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Ted_Sturges

Follow-up question for Tim Liddy
« on: November 22, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
To Tim Liddy,Let me begin by telling you how much I have enjoyed your work.  Spent a decent amount of time at Rock Hollow, and have played about 5 rounds at The Trophy Club and I really like both of them (love the par 5s at The Trophy Club).Now please allow me to ask a question about your earlier post under "Voting in a vacuum".  I have seen Bulle Rock and Whistling Straits (haven't been to Colleton River).  Please expound upon your earlier comments and tell us how these courses "show wonderful new directions in golf course architecture."

Tim_Liddy

Follow-up question for Tim Liddy
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
Why do I feel like a piece of cheese in a room full of cats?Whistling StraitsFirst a great routing- 8 holes directly on the lake edge-a great balance of holes on the waters edge, the cross-overs provide a balance of golf holes on the lakes edge.  Example, holes #3 and #4 ply to the left along the lakes edge, then after hole #6 one crosses-over behind hole #2. This provides hole #7 and #8on the waters edge playing to the right-so there is a balance of holes along the lake edge that play to the left and to the right.  This occurs on both the front and back nines.-the holes that are not directly on the lake lay out and were grading so that windows of the lake could be achieved, mostly at green sites. Examples, #14 and #15 green, #2 greenSecond, He got the scale right, not an easy thing to do.  This thing is big.  30 foot cuts and 30 fills to provide the 60 foot elevation change necessary in providing the sense of sand dunes. Hole #10 alone must be on 15-20  acres.Third, the shaping. Not an easy thing to do at this scale, and to make it look natural.  Mr. Dye is the best and taking artificial mounds and making them look natural-I don’t know of anybody else that has his talent for this. Fourth, Grassing.  We have got to give Tom Doak credit for doing it first, but the fescue on this golf course is impressive, and this project has the budget to make it work.  Also, the greens and surrounds are grassed in bent and shaped, so that in a tournament condition they can be reduced from their larger size used for daily play. Fifth, the site.  This wasn’t a “Ray Charles” site along  Lake Michigan.  It was a dead flat army base with a run-way.  I personally don’t know of anyone else who could have achieved this great course but Mr. Dye.

Ted_Sturges

Follow-up question for Tim Liddy
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
Tim,Thanks for elaborating on your earlier comments.  It helps me to better understand your opinion of Mr. Dye's work.Sorry if I put you in the "cheese in the cat room" position.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  It's very enjoyable to have someone like you share your views with interested folks like those on this site.TSPS:  I have never been to Harrison Hills.  I now live in Zionsville and just haven't gotten up there since my move to Indy 18 months ago.  Would you be willing to host a tour of Harrison Hills for John Morrissett and myself? (Email me at   sturges_crew@yahoo.com)

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Follow-up question for Tim Liddy
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
Whistling Straits is one of the 3 or 4 most impressive courses built in the past 50 years and it deserves the great answer that Tim provided. PS Ted, are you willing to concede it is a "9"?

T_MacWood

Follow-up question for Tim Liddy
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
TimI had the pleasure of playing Whistling Straits this past fall. I loved the course with exception of two holes(5&18), but they did not take away from my overall positive feeling for the course. Your comments regarding the routing, the natural appearance and the relative scale are very true, but with all that said is this an example of wonderful new direction in G.A.What P.D. was able to due with this site is truely amazing, but do you see the state design continuing down this road of totally manufactured golf courses. Are promising sites for less forced designs not available or is WS a unique situation? If you were given a choice of a site like WS and an unlimited budget against a more natural site like The Golf Club and a normal budget, which would you choose? I can see positives for either choice.

Lloyd Bickerton

Follow-up question for Tim Liddy
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
Tim, are you and Ran best mates? You should see his office in Sydney - it is a shrine to Whistling Straits. I expect to see candles burning in front of the picture of 17 green next time I duck in there.

John Morrissett

Follow-up question for Tim Liddy
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 1999, 07:00:00 PM »
Tim--Thanks for the great defense of Whistling Straits.  I love the place and continue to be amazed how politicaly correct it has apparently become to trash WS.I was with Kye Goalby last month, and he certainly raved about Harrison Hills.  I will get over there this winter -- it sounds ripe for a GCA write-up.