Nominations for best course that fails to inspire

[Bob Ellington]

The more I read at this site, the more I see the word "inspire" pop up. Does the course inspire you? That is indeed a very good yardstick.HOWEVER, what about the world's best course that has very good to excellent architecture, is fundamentally sound, is in a great location, etc. In short it has no flaws ...other than it fails to inspire practically anybody.Muirfeild has its admirers who swear it inspires (doesn't it, Ran   so it doesn't count).I would table Ganton. Everything is there but somehow... the heart doesn't flutter as when you approach Brancaster.

[Ran Morrissett]

Bob,When I read the topic, I jumped in to type Muirfield but you already aced me out.Until a return visit last August, I would have said Portmarnock but after that round, I became a believer, so no - Portmarnock can definitely inspire big time.Ganton may be the best example. How about Baltusrol Lower (even though I am sure Tom E.   may send me a nasty email   )The question is why does Ganton fail to inspire??

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Portmarnock inspires you more than Muirfield does Ran? Come on now, you sure you aren't exagerating the case against Muirfield?

[Tom_Egan]

Ran --     Thanks for the kudos re:  Baltusrol Lower.  Did I ever make any secret of which layout most members preferred?  Not too bad for a "back up course", huh?     Anyhoo, so much for trying to be a gracious host.                     Tom

[Ran Morrissett]

Geoff,Of course, I am overstating but I knew you low handicap markers would rush to the aid of Muirfield. Muirfield is clearly stronger but as far as inspiring, Portmarnock's proximity to the water and its romantic setting out on a peninsula indeed gives it an edge in the inspiring sweepstakes (at least to this grump).I played with a guy in New Zealand who said  he once played Portmarnock and the wind was blowing so hard from right to left across the first hole, that the water was hitting the planks and forming a "water tunnel" down the entire first fairway. Now that's what I call a rollicking good time (?!) as opposed to "hay left, hay right, hey wait, I'm standing in a flat field!" Tom,I hope Baltusrol Upper continues to close the gap  between the two sister courses in GOLF Magazine's US rankings. It made up 15 spots last time around and talk about "inspiring": the first tee underneath the Clubhouse and final approach shot underneath the same bookend a very fun course to play.  Cheers,  

[Gib_Papazian]

Inarguably great courses that fail to maketh my heart sing? Three come to mind immediately. I would like to qualify this by saying I love playing them, but they just lack that ethereal quality I feel at NGLA or County Down:#1. Winged Foot West#2. Troon (Scotland)#3. Oakmont#4. WentworthSpeaking of sister courses that are underrated, my feeling is that the East Course at Winged Foot is a far more interesting and visually engaging course than its big brother.

[TEPaul]

Aronomink:It's a great course and is in the process of being restored by Ron Prichard to total Rossness along with a conditioning plan by Dick Bator. It has always had a reputation of hit it hard, harder and hardest--not the most inspiring theme.

[T_MacWood]

Oakland HillsTrent Jones is probably responsible for its dull effect on me. For the most part the greens are interesting and some cases pretty wild, Ross's work no doubt. But with the exception of 11th, the bunkering makes for some very monotonous holes. The flat 16th didn't inspire me either.

[George Blunt]

Metropolitan Golf Course in Melbourne - famous as a sandbelt course and host to many championships.  Deserved reputation for outstanding  conditioning and 2 or 3 great holes, but as a course it suffers from monotony in strategic design.  It asks the same questions of the golfer at every critical point in the round, and the green complexes, while individually appealing, have the same look and texture throughout.The flat topography can be offered as an excuse, but the land is in the same general area as Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath, and look at what the good doctor managed to create there.I would never say no to a round at Metro, but you always get the feeling that it could be improved.

[AndrewB]

Thanks for the kudos re:  Baltusrol Lower.  Did I ever make any secret of which layout most members preferred?  Not too bad for a "back up course", huh?

Interesting.  I thought I was one of the few that enjoyed the Upper course at Baltusrol much more than the Lower.  "Failing to inspire" hits the nail on the head about the Lower course for me.  Though, to be fair, I've only played each once.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Victoria in Melbourne had this effect on me. Absolutely je ne sais quoi. I didn't like the look of the bunkering and although the property seemed ideal I was consistently underwhelmed.
Ganton on the other hand, well, what can I say - I'm bemused - I hope you're take on it becomes the norm so it will be nice and quiet for me in my retirement.

[Mark Pearce]

I thought this looked an interesting thread.  I was surprised to see Muirfield, Ganton and Portmarnock mentioned as those strike me as sacred cows on this site.  I see Troon was already mentioned so I will have to nominate a few others.  

Carnoustie & Lytham & St. Annes & Porthcawl come to mind.  

To a lesser extent Hunstanton, Gullane, Baltray & Harlech.

Ciao

This is such a subjective subject.  I played Hunstanton on a sunny day but an early evening mist descened as we played the last few holes.  The shadows of the terrain, combined with that mist produced a magical, beautiful picture.  Hunstanton thrills me and inspires me but might not, had my first game there been on a grey, dull day.

[John Kirk]

Good topic.

Winged Foot West.

[tlavin]

Hoylake

[Ally Mcintosh]

i think the least inspiring course i have ever played is the pga at gleneagles... maybe no one would call it a great but it is going to hold the ryder cup after all...

... i played it immediately after the wonderful kings and queens course... it was one big slog and seeing that's it's in similar surroundings to the other two, one big letdown...

...i find baltray enthralling and am surprised that got a mention...

[ChipRoyce]

I'd *almost* say Pebble Beach also fails to inspire.

While this may be a controversial statement within the treehouse, I personally found that while the vistas / real estate are quite beautiful, there's quite a few pedestrian holes.

The few places that I have found some level of inspiration and save PB from this category are:
 - 3rd: Remove the trees to the left of the tee and you have a cool cape hole
 - 7th: Fondness for the short par 3 (scenery aside)
 - 8th: One of the best par 4 approaches in golf
 - 14th: Most of the hole is pretty vanilla, but the greensite is diabolical

[Jeff_Brauer]

Chip,

Then wouldnt' PB be an average course that overinspires?

[rjsimper]

I'd *almost* say Pebble Beach also fails to inspire.

You have got to be kidding.

To say Pebble Beach has pedestrian holes will bring you little debate from anyone.  However, to even entertain for a moment the possibility that the golf course doesn't inspire is possibly the biggest crock of contrarianism I've ever read in these pages.

Pebble Beach is probably the very definition of a course that inspires.

[Philippe Binette]

Gullane no 1, total lack of caracter after the 3rd hole...

[Kalen Braley]

I'd *almost* say Pebble Beach also fails to inspire.

You have got to be kidding.

To say Pebble Beach has pedestrian holes will bring you little debate from anyone.  However, to even entertain for a moment the possibility that the golf course doesn't inspire is possibly the biggest crock of contrarianism I've ever read in these pages.

Pebble Beach is probably the very definition of a course that inspires.

I don't know there Ryan,

I mean that 7 hole stretch of #4 thru #10 is very bland with the cliff overlooks to the boring pacific.  There are far too many cypress and pine trees that just get in the way and should be lopped off. And the place is infested with deer, I need to bring my hunting rifle on my next visit.

Then take number 9 and 10, that white sandy beach just detracts from the hole.  They are a slicers nightmare to boot.

And the walk up 18 would be much more interesting if those seals and otters weren't swimming around making odd noises distracting golfer from thier shots.  It would be great if they could do something about that run-down shack they call the lodge too!!!  

[Chris Cupit]

I'll jump on Ran's bandwagon and re-nominate Muirfield.  Very, very flat ground, four par 3's that played the same length, #9 was interesting and fun to play but #17 was a little bit of a letdown--drive was un-inspring but the second shot did have a "pucker-up" factor.  Even #18 green seemed "small"?

My favorite hole or shot was the tee shot on #11--blind up over the hill and then a tough little green with a deep bunker right--that's more like it!!  Anyway, I think most of the guys I played with (the Americans anyway) hated that hole!  I also loved #6--downhill dogleg left with the death bunkers on the left and the wall short and left.

Other nominees--Oak Hill.  Very nice although I thought #13 with all the oaks around the green may have been one of the weaker holes.  

Upper Cascades (qualified for 88 Amatuer and was bummed when I got there--missed Merion by one year!!)   Also played the Cascades in 2 more tournaments and other than #9 I still don't "get it".  5-5-3 finish is interesting but it still a long ass drive for a great "mountain course".

Stanwich in Conn. is very nice and immaculate and I haven't seen the course since the renovation but it seemed like EVERY shot was to a green, pitched sharply from back to front with bunkers on each side.  Under the hole is fine, pin high right or left and you could three putt 10 times!!

East Lake--back and forth parrallel holes that got more vanilla post renovation.  (Maybe I just long for the days when my clubs were stolen from the 1st tee as I stood 35 feet away!  At least there was some excitement )  The Jones' memorabilia inside the clubhouse is 100x more inspiring than anything outdoors.

Walton Heath--after holes 1, 2 and 4 (dogleg left with the wildly undulating green) it kind of a snooze.  

I disagree a little with Hoylake.  I played terrible and the surrounds are ugly but the cops on #1, #7 and #16 and the road tight to the green on #17 were very interesting.  The land is far more rolling (#8, #9, #10 particularly) than Muirfield for example.  I'm not saying it is great, but I think there is more there than meets the eye.

While Winged Foot West was mentioned I have always been impressed and inspired by the sheer bigness and scale of the course--big bold greens, big deep bunkers, big clubhouse as you come down 9 and 18.  Just a big, awesome beast.  Looking down on a grille placement mat, it looks repetative (long par 4--bunkers left and right) and yet I can't think of two holes that play the same or two greens that look alike.





 

[Bill_McBride]

I disagree a little with Hoylake.  I played terrible and the surrounds are ugly but the cops on #1, #7 and #16 and the road tight to the green on #17 were very interesting.  

Chris, if the green at #17 (#1 in the Open routing we just played there in October) is a major reason you liked Hoylake, too bad.  The green has been moved maybe 30 yards left of the road to a new green by Donald Steel.

Ran has updated his profile of Royal Liverpool Golf Club to reflect that and other changes to the course.

[Chris Cupit]

Bill,

The last time I played Hoylake was in the 2002 Amateur so it has been a while.  I would be dissapointed if the 17th was moved so that the road was no longer in  play although I understand it has been controversial for a long time and I am sure safety was an issue.

I think the Hoylake course aquitted itself nicely this last year even though I liked the old #1 as an opener better than shifting things around as they did.  The old #1 may be the most intimidating start in tournament golf but I see where the re-routing made for a potential better/more exciting finish.

I may not should have suggested that Hoylake was inspiring--certainly no Cypress Point, Augusta National, TOC etc....but certainly more interesting than most give it at first glance.

[ChipRoyce]

I'd *almost* say Pebble Beach also fails to inspire.

You have got to be kidding.

To say Pebble Beach has pedestrian holes will bring you little debate from anyone.  However, to even entertain for a moment the possibility that the golf course doesn't inspire is possibly the biggest crock of contrarianism I've ever read in these pages.

Pebble Beach is probably the very definition of a course that inspires.

Ryan;
I wonder if you and I have different definitions of inspiration?

[ChipRoyce]

Chip,

Then wouldnt' PB be an average course that overinspires?

Jeff / Ryan;
I went back to the orig posting that started this thread and am focusing on Bob's original question:

"Does the course inspire you?"

Of course the setting at Pebble is majestic and incredible. When I think of the course, I think of its features in terms of GCA (routing, greens, fairways, contours,etc...)

I stand my orig. statement as saying that the course itself is not inspiring.

To help back this up is that BD and PD are both on similar pieces of land with almost as incredible vistas, etc. However, I found those *courses* to be much more inspiring that Pebble. In fact, I still lust to return to Pac Dunes asap as I really need to see it a few times to get a better sense of what makes it a fantastic course.