Best site...ruined

[James Clifford]

The best site that an architect failed to take advantage of is The National on the south coast of Victoria. Spectacular property with ocean views on most holes, which are over dramatic rolling terrain. The problem? RT Jones Jr. built ridiculous greens that push the course so far over the line, it is not funny. On a windy day, stay indoors.

[Ben DeLow]

I would nominate two Jones family works:Sandpines in Oregon by ReesSpyglass Hills by RTJ Sr.

[Scott Kraus]

Too easy - Ballybunion New. Nobody over there will play the damed thing but boy it could have been something special.

[DBE]

Peachtree--on property comparable to the back nine of Augusta NationalOcean Forest--no comment necessary

[Lloyd Bickerton]

Jim is right. Blow up the greens at The National and start over. You might end up with something.

[Tom Naccarato]

Ben Delow is right.Sand Pines has to be one of the all time screw ups, at least one I can attest to.Golf on the Oregon Dunes is what they advertise, what they got was truly one of the worst designs in golf.I can go on if people want, I have the pictures to prove myself!\The mounding that frames the course is classic Rees. Who else would take windswept dunes and create the most ugly round-mound Reeses Pieces.  The bunkering is pathetic in both placement and shaping, and the all time worst is how Rees dug a pit in the center of the site of these windswept dunes and created a lake for the classic and original (Ugh!) Cape 18th which is one of the worst Cape-style holes I have ever played.Not to get to dramatic, but the course makes me wish I had a spike shoved into my spinal column to take my mind off the fact of the site he had.

[George Blunt]

James I would have to agree, The National is ridiculous.  I remember thinking that the course was really hard, we played it in a strong breeze, but ultimatley quite fair - until you got onto the green.  Lloyd is right, blow the greens up, but I would happily play the rest of the course.  (As a footnote, I think it should change it's name to avoid confusion with THE NATIONAL, how about The Mickey Mouse?)

[Bob Ellington]

The property at Pinehurst # 7 was very good -  rolling sandy terrain. Then Rees started moguling it up and there is not one enticing to be found on the entire course. It is a "play once and move on" course.

[Swiss Cheeze]

Bandon Dunes: If I see one more picture of that 6th green (par 3) I'm gonna ... well you get the idea. How more artifical and manufactured can you get.  It looks like it was built in the ASGCA factory and airmailed to the site. I really like the 5 foot wide curved run up approach. This guys from Scotland? And shame on you guys who claim it's just like over seas. I see no native contours tieing in anywhere.    

[JohnV]

I will agree with you about that.  #6 is probably my least favorite hole on the course.  It is totally unplayable in any kind of normal wind.  As opposed to 15 which is a similar par three, but works with the land and leaves some bailout.  Unfortunately, the pictures of Bandon are always of the same holes along the coast and not the neat ones that are inland.   Holes like 7, 8, 10, 13, or 14 don't photograph as well but are much better holes.

[Glenn Spencer]

I will of course go with Longaberger!!

[Jay Flemma]

Glenn - your post is interesting...I thought most from Ohio love the place.  Why is it so bad?  I had it on a list of places to see...should I scratch it off?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Whatever happened to Swiss Cheeze?

[Jesse Jones]

The Links at Lighthouse Sound-Ocean City Maryland

Glenn my man..You are so right about Longaberger..
It's an incredible piece of property, on par, maybe even better than Blackwolf Run (River)..
So how do you get 6 really bad holes out of it ?
I just don't get it..
 

[Tim Pitner]

Whatever happened to Swiss Cheeze?

I don't know, but I couldn't disagree more with Mr. Cheeze's nomination of Bandon Dunes.  You can argue that Kidd didn't take full advantage of the site (I put BD in the range of a Doak 7.5-8 so I suppose there's room for improvement), but to suggest that it's in the same league as something like Sandpines is totally ridiculous.  

[Sean Leary]

The 6th hole at Bandon has been  improved with bailout area right since 1999. That and the changes to 16 have significantly improved BD....

[Ryan Farrow]

The Links at Lighthouse Sound-Ocean City Maryland

Glenn my man..You are so right about Longaberger..
It's an incredible piece of property, on par, maybe even better than Blackwolf Run (River)..
So how do you get 6 really bad holes out of it ?
I just don't get it..
 

You didn't enjoy the longest bridge in golf? I must say that the bay holes were quite exciting. I believe I was only 17 at the time and was a complete hack who knew nothing about golf course architecture.

[Tim Leahy]

Trump National in Rancho Palos Verdes, not only wasted the site but ruined for anyone after by losing half the site into the ocean.
Major disagreement on Spyglass, how could he have done any better with that land, he made two great course nines that took advantage of both the dunes and forrest. It doesn't get much better.

[Bob_Huntley]

I would nominate two Jones family works:Sandpines in Oregon by ReesSpyglass Hills by RTJ Sr.

Ben,

Apart from the first five holes at Spyglass to which great land are you referring? The place was basically a forested swamp.

Bob  

[PThomas]

The Links at Lighthouse Sound-Ocean City Maryland

Glenn my man..You are so right about Longaberger..
It's an incredible piece of property, on par, maybe even better than Blackwolf Run (River)..
So how do you get 6 really bad holes out of it ?
I just don't get it..
 

Jesse - I must disagree re the comparison with BR River!

[Jesse Jones]

Paul,


The reason I say that is because both courses have the same type of dramatic elevation changes...Diversity of terrain...and enough water to serve as great hazards, if used correctly..
I will give you this Paul..
You may be right..I just think the potential of Longaberger can only be found on a few holes..
Nothing in this world is worse than a wasted chance at greatness..
BR is a great design on an awesome piece of land.
I just wish someone else not named Hills or Jones (including myself) would have had a crack at that place on the hill by the big basket.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tim,
While I'll agree with you regarding Trump being a lousy golf course, it was anything but a good golf site. Quite actually, it was a very difficult one--construction wise. While the view is wonderful, the site was just too severe--one gigantic sidehill lie which only housing would allow for the course to get built. That was until $100 Million Dollars and The Donald later!

[ed_getka]

Jay,
   Go back a month or so and there is a long.... thread about Art Hills/Longaberger that spells everything out. It is not a bad course, it is a course that doesn't live up to the potential of the land IMO. It has at a minimum one atrocious hole, but an argument could certainly be made for some more of them. Play it at twilight rates and you wouldn't feel ripped off.

[ed_getka]

The opening premise of this thread (1999) is sort of flawed anyway. Were any of those sites actually ruined? Or do the courses simply not live up to the potential of the site? I always list The Preserve (up in the Carmel Valley, near Monterey) as an underachiever. It is a very good golf course, I just think it should have been an all-world course on that land. So the site certainly was not ruined.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I think the premise is okay, but that it would have to be a spectacular site, not just a rolling Ohio site.

In that regard, would Torrey Pines be a candidate as one of the lesser ocean front courses, even in California?