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RJ_Daley

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Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2006, 09:48:26 AM »
I'd try to make the case for Whistling STraits, which was nothing much before Dye got at it.
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Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2006, 11:02:48 AM »
I've been to Tobacco Road to visit, but not play.  The Drive past the industrial use at the front entrance is not on my list of positives to developing any site.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2006, 12:43:38 PM »
Empire Lakes in Ontario, Ca. As you drive up through a business park, all you see is flat nothing land. Palmer group did a wonderful job of carving out an interesting course from nothing. It even has a view of the mountains when the smog lifts.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2006, 11:31:21 AM »
I'd like to see the answers on a horrible site more based on difficult piece of property rather than a flat listless site where something was created from scratch.  I would think that would be harder to make into a good course. KBM's Morgan Hill seems to get high reviews on this sort of a site,  as do some of Jim Engh's mountain courses..

Gene Greco

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Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2006, 11:55:34 AM »
I'd like to see the answers on a horrible site more based on difficult piece of property rather than a flat listless site where something was created from scratch.  I would think that would be harder to make into a good course. KBM's Morgan Hill seems to get high reviews on this sort of a site,  as do some of Jim Engh's mountain courses..

In that regard, one must consider Kapalua Plantation.
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2006, 11:59:04 AM »
Brickyard Golf Club alongside and inside the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.  From what I understand, there were many hazardous waste issues around the property.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2006, 12:04:19 PM »
The only really good course that I can think of on a tough site is Tobacco Road.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2006, 12:40:04 PM »
I'd like to see the answers on a horrible site more based on difficult piece of property rather than a flat listless site where something was created from scratch.  I would think that would be harder to make into a good course. KBM's Morgan Hill seems to get high reviews on this sort of a site,  as do some of Jim Engh's mountain courses..

In that regard, one must consider Kapalua Plantation.


Gene,

   As Ran earlier noted, it would be very hard to classify Kapalua Plantation as a "bad" site. The land may indeed be sever in spots, but not as severe or preclusive to the potential of good golf as say a Morgan Hill. Instead, I might note that Southampton GC might qualify as that land would have made for excellent Hampton Highlan Mansions!!  :o :o ;)
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

DMoriarty

Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2006, 01:48:12 PM »
Old Works in Anaconda Mt. probably deserves mention.  Built on two old copper smelters in one of the largest environmental messes and superfund sites in the country.   While the course itself has a few shortcomings it is extremely fun.  Nicklaus' people did a terrific job of integrating the course into some of the man-made features of the place, and even rebuilt a large creek/ small river that actually looks real (at least it did last time I was there.)

Here is an old photos of one of the two "Works" which previously existed on the site.  


Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2006, 02:15:04 PM »
Dave,

I was scheduled to play there last year during a business trip but got snowed out...a real shame!!!

You may have picked a "winner" for this thread...that site is supposed to have been aweful!
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2006, 03:38:19 PM »
Before Jim Engh was hired to do Sanctuary, a number of architects said a golf course couldn/t be built on that piece of land and its a top 100 course.

The Quarry at Giants Ridge get my other vote
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Andy Troeger

Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2006, 03:50:10 PM »
I don't know that I'd agree with where this is going. I think "absolutely horrible site" and difficult site are completely different things. When I think of the mountainous sites that some of the courses being mentioned were built from, I think of the difficult category, but at least then with some effort and possibly earth moving a great course can result. An absolutely horrible site to me is a completely flat cornfield devoid of any natural landforms or trees. I know some of you love these sites due to them being naturally windy, but personally I get wary if all I see on the way to a course are cornfields.

I haven't seen a course I liked come from one of these sites yet. The Brassie in Chesterton, IN is one that comes to mind. It looks like the design consisted of digging some ponds and bunkers and using the fill to create artificial mounds around them and to build up parts of the greens. Short of moving a lot of earth to make things more interesting, what could the architect really do?

Paul Payne

Re:Best course on an absolutely horrible site?
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2006, 12:51:24 PM »
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Greywalls yet. I guess Mr. Sleeman is still in the throes of post wedding syndrome.

I grew up in Marquette and I know the property well where the golf course is now. It was a rocky, nubby hilltop with very choppy terrain. If anybody back in the seventies had suggested it could be the site for a world class golf course one day we would have laughed until he went back home to the lower penninsula.

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