[Ran Morrissett]

This question is a follow on from a lunch time chat. What course has such good design features that it still shines through even though the site itself is awful? The site might be by a garbage dump with power lines over head, through impossibly close housing, you have to cross busy roads and hope to be alive when you get to the other side, whatever. Nominations??

[TEPaul]

Easthampton G.C., LI, NY-C&CYou have to go diagonally across a busy intersection to get to the first tee and back again to get to the tenth, but the course is just awesome. Last I heard the township was blocking the building of a clubhouse too, but I'd change my shoes in the car for this place everyday!Scotland Run, Stephen Kay, Williamstown NJ.Routed through an old quarry and quarry works with the dilapidated works as a backdrop on a few holes. Not that this is bad at all, just unusual.

[GeoffreyC]

I recently had the chance to play the courses at Talking Stick (North and South) by C & C and what a great job they did with perfectly flat and featureless desert scrubland.  Each course has a unique character and I especially liked the South with pushed up greens and artistic and beautifully placed bunkering that Ron Whitten particularly thought inappropriate.

[DBE]

I'm surprised that John Morrissett, given what a huge fan he is of TPC at Sawgrass, has not nominated this one.  The snake, mosquito and alligator infested swamp was to even the developer/owner undevelopable.  He sold Deane Beman the property for $1!  There was a bulldozer lost--it sunk in quicksand.  It was for even Florida standards a pathetic piece of land that was covered in muck.

[Bob Ellington]

Even though the course itself is pretty good, the front nine has the awkward distinction of having a massive powerline bisect it. There is no glory to be had from that sitution, I can assure you.

[Steve Frank]

How did this topic get by without someone mentioning Shadow Creek. This wa built on a horrible, dull, flat piece of desert North of Las Vegas. When you are on the course, you could be in North Carolina, New Jersey or lots of other places.

[Ran Morrissett]

Steve is right but is there such a thing as a bad site when you have an unlimited budget  ?Kapalua would count as a nomination given the extreme severity of its 750 acres. However, the mind-blowing views from every hole except for the 2nd rule it out as a "bad" site.

[Mike Malloy]

Down in Haines City Fla. nestled among the trailer parks and the poorer side of town is Southern Dunes. Even though they're building fairway side homes it still has some ugly views.The course itself is challenging, well laid out and enjoyable.

[Tom_Doak]

The worst site I've ever seen is the Karsten GC at Arizona State.  Pete Dye said he was glad to have it, because there was no way anyone could criticize him for not improving the site -- but it isn't a very good course.I hear that Seaton Carew, a links course on the east coast of England, is pretty good, and if so then it wins.  I didn't even want to get out of the car to see it, with all the chemical-plant and nuclear-power cooling towers at the far end.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

it seems like I'm trying to turn this website into the George C. Thomas-praise site.While it is far from the worst site ever, Riviera was far from an ideal piece of land, but the finished product WAS certainly something to celebrate about.Makes me want to get in touch with Tony Soprano and crew to go and make a visit to Tom Marzlof's office at Fizzio Designs.

[GeoffreyC]

Tom Seaton Carew is in fact a lovely golf course but it is hardly on a "bad" or featureless piece of property.  It's MUCH better than it appears from the clubhouse.  THere are many undulations and little mounds that are used very well.  In, fact I can't say anything bad about Seaton Carew because it was redone in 1925 by Dr. A. MacKenzie and Tommy N would blast me if I criticisized the great Dr.  MacKenzie mostly did a complete redesign of #17 which is probably the best hole on the course (that I saw- I'll explain).  #17 is a 397 yard par 4 with mounds and gourse to the right where the optimal angle to the green will allow a well placed drive to land.  The landing area narrow greatly as you drive longer .  On the left are some huge sandhills that create problems with stance and vision for the approach shot to a green that looks like a bicycle saddle with an upper and lower tier. The lower tier is protected by bunkers left and right.At different times of the year they play different holes in different order at Seaton Carew. In 1974, they used money from oil exploration under the course to build four spectacular holes on the seaward side of the dunes which I didn't play but peaked at and they look great.  I don't know who built them.  Those holes are on their "championship" course.  I vaguely remember the plants on the end of the course but you don't get too close.  If you want to really get intimate with a nuclear power plant, play Seascale.  The tee of the 10th or 11th hole is right on the barbed wire border of the plant with warning signs and evacuation plans.  It's a good course too! I played in a tournament there in a massive downpour with 30-40 mph winds.  WOrst conditions I was ever stupid enough to endure but it gave me stories to tell.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I thought this might be worth bringing back to the top.  Given the correspondence on another recent post, is Firestone a candidate?  I have never been there, so it is a genuine question.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

When did this site start, given that in 1999 Ran M had 1851 posts to his credit?

[ForkaB]

Mark

The posts are cumulative and current.  Do you really think that Tom Paul had 21,000+ posts in 1999?  No, don't answser that question.......

As for Ran's question, David Eger got it right 7 years ago--TPC Sawgrass.

[Mark Brown]

PGA West, Doral Blue
Currahee - Mountain course by Jim Fazio near Lake Keowee.
Spectacular views and hole. Long cart paths however to make it work.
I agress with Southern Dunes

[Matthew Mollica]

Sanctuary Lakes in Melbourne, designed by Norman and Harrison, must be a contender. Built around 8 years ago now, the course is solid, if not spectacular, with one or two very good holes. It is a regular Top 50 course in Australia.

Built on an ugly, featureless, windswept, dead flat salt pan, with a rock base less than 10 feet below the grass. It is surrounded by gawdy rendered concrete housing, in the middle of uglyville. It's not that far from a sewerage treatment plant either. Talk about afraid to get out of the car! Yet, I'd play this course gladly, much of the year.

They did a tremendous job with what they had.

Matthew

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

What is wrong with Southern Dunes site? I played near there at Mountain Lake and thought it was great land. The movement is great in that area as well as the sand based soil made for great drainage.

[Pete Buczkowski]

What is wrong with Southern Dunes site? I played near there at Mountain Lake and thought it was great land. The movement is great in that area as well as the sand based soil made for great drainage.

Tiger - Its not a bad site in the least.  For FL it is a great piece for land...not that different from the Ocala area (WW/Black Diamond).  I think some people say its bad due to the housing, but it doesn't bother me that much.  Hey, its got 90 feet of decently rolling elevation change on a sandy base and very few trees in play...that's good enough for me! The site has to be good to maintain those green contours.

[Mark Brown]

Old Memorial in Tampa by Smyers. the only attribute of the land was that there was quite a bit of sandy soil.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Thanks Pete, long time no chat. lol

[Mike_Sweeney]

Old Memorial in Tampa by Smyers. the only attribute of the land was that there was quite a bit of sandy soil.

Mark,

I have to say based on last weekend where we had reports of 8-12 inches or rain on Friday, we played a very dry course 30 minutes after it ended at Mountain Lake. A couple of puddles around some cart areas, but amazingly dry. I am now a huge believer in any course built on sand!

I agree with Pete, the houses are bad at Southern Dunes, but that is a good site and a good course.

[Evan Fleisher]

Old Memorial in Tampa by Smyers. the only attribute of the land was that there was quite a bit of sandy soil.

Mark,

I have to say based on last weekend where we had reports of 8-12 inches or rain on Friday, we played a very dry course 30 minutes after it ended at Mountain Lake. A couple of puddles around some cart areas, but amazingly dry. I am now a huge believer in any course built on sand!

I agree with Pete, the houses are bad at Southern Dunes, but that is a good site and a good course.

Agree with these assessments...housing at Southern dunes has RUINED the site...but it was good to start with!

[archie_struthers]

 


Interestingly enough, the worst sites are the easiest to permit. A visionary like Crump would probably not be able to get Pine Valley approvedin todays regulatory environment.


Makes you appreciate guys like Mike Keiser more and more!

[JLahrman]

The site might be by a garbage dump with power lines over head, through impossibly close housing, you have to cross busy roads and hope to be alive when you get to the other side, whatever. Nominations??

While not in the same league as these other courses, The Phoenix just south of Columbus Ohio is literally built on a former landfill.  They had to seal the garbage before building the course on top of it, and no trees are allowed as the roots would eventually pierce the seal.  The course does have some decent holes as I remember, although I've only played it once.

[Steve_Lovett]

Slammer & Squire at World Golf Village, St. Augustine, Florida - "...muck, muck, muck..."

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()