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John Morrissett

Bandon Dunes Report
« on: August 31, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
Just returned from three rounds at Oregon's Bandon Dunes.  A more detailed write-up (with pictures) will be featured in October on this site, so I will just give a few random comments here:1.  The place (not just the course) is outstanding.  You do have that rare feeling that you are somewhere special.  2.  As good as the course is, the next one built there (by Tom Doak) should be better.  Aside from the quality of the architect, the course will be over a superior piece of land (left of the 7th hole) with real sand dunes.3.  Don't get too caught up in the whole "this is a piece of Scotland" scam.  There are a number of similarities (the 3rd and 11th could be transplanted) but this is an American operation.  Standing on the 3rd tee, however, I did feel as though I could be in East Lothian.  Just enjoy the course for what it is.4.  There are "only" four holes along the cliffs where you could kncock it into the lateral water hazard known as the pacific Ocean.  Contrary to their promotional material, there are not ocean views on every hole.  The cliffs are intimidating.  If they were going to film another movie on D-Day, they could do it here as the cliffs could easily pass for Normandy.5.  The course was wisely built with strong winds in mind.  The fairways are usually 50 + yards in width and the greens probably average 40 yards in depth.  In calm conditions like we had, this scale seems slightly inappropriate, but I'm sure it doesn't in a 30 mph breeze.  Hitting the green is hardly a guarantee of par (I bet Lisa and I each averaged over 35 putts a round).  They are more interesting and better than I expected.    6.  As is the case at a number of top courses, there are a handful of key shots which, if played properly, almost ensure a good round (e.g., the tee shots on 4,6, 15 and 16 and the approach to 5).  A bad swing on any those will invariably result in a double bogey or worse.7.  The par fives are the weakest part of the course.  I like the 3rd very much, and the 13th grew on me each round, but the 9th and 18th just don't do it.8.  As Ted wondered about the 18th at Whistling Straits, it looks as though Mike Stranz was asked to design the 1st, 17th and 18th holes (I like 1 and 17, though).  The 18th is quite a disappointment -- the least interesting hole on the course.9. The frugality of the bunkering is impressive.  For example, the short 12th features only one bunker, but that smallish bunker dictates play on the hole.  I can't help but wonder how neat it would be if, similar to Hoylake and others, every bunker had a stacked turf face.10.  The course is for walkers only, a terrific move.  Your soft spikes strike asphalt only when crossing the sole maintenance road through the course.  the frustrating aspect, though, is how spread out the course is when it was intended for walking only.  There are a number of decent walks between holes (e.g., 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 6 and 7, 8 and 9, 12 and 13, 14 and 15).  Since selling real estate was not an issue, why isn't the course more compact?  Taking five hours to play leaves a bad taste in your mouth.11.  Overall, high marks.  You won't be disappointed.  When Doak's course opens, I imagine a trip to Bandon will become a regular occurrence (perhaps every other year).  

JohnV

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
I agree with almost everything you said here John.  By the way, I have heard they are going to re-do the 18th hole, possibly as a par 4 as they are not happy with it either.  13 is a cool par 5, no bunkers, incredible undulations in the fairway and a semi-split fairway with the one water hazard on the course ( a natural wetlands area).  I've never seen 9 as I've played the hole down the practice range both times I've been there, perhaps when I go there in two weeks, I'll be able to hit the fairway at least once in 6 rounds.I one disagreement I might have is in regards to the long walks.  Yes, some are long, but Mr. Kidd routed the course over the best land and that means that you might have to walk a bit.  The original tees for #2 are to the right of the #1 green and quite close.  It was a late decision to add the tees down below and they are a bit of a walk.  The walk from 6 to 7 is one of the coolest walks out there as you walk along a railroad tie path through the dunes.  It isn't too far to the back tees, but it is a way to the others which sit further to the south.

John Sessions

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
to John Morrissett:You are the only person I know who has played both Whistling Straits and Bandon Dunes. In your considered and most learned opinion, how much better is Whistling Straits than BD?

John Morrissett

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
John S --My wife might take offence at being excluded from your comments, but I'll tell you my thoughts.You are correct that Whistling Straits is better than Bandon Dunes.  Some differences: WS has 8 holes hard on Lake Michigan while BD has 4 on the ocean; the par threes at WS are better balanced (I think I hit 4-iron 12 times on the 12 par threes I played at BD); the par fives are better at WS (except for the 5th).There are a number of similarities in that each course spreads out its "wow" holes with several on each side; each is walking only; each has an indifferent (the kind adjective) 18th; each is built on a huge scale, allowing them to remain playable in a gale. When you factor in the cost, I could certainly understand why a person might prefer to pay $100 to play BD than $150+ to play WS.  All things even, though, I'll take WS.

John Morrissett

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
One item I forgot to mention: the more I played the 5th at Bandon(the hole along the ocean with rough islands in the fairway -- it's in the Nike ads), the more annoyed I became.  The hole is already something like 450 yards and into the prevailing wind.  Why did he split the fairway?  I appreciate that the left side offers a better angle of approach, but it is so narrow over there (about 15 yards) that I can't imagine ever trying to hit it there.  The idea is OK, it's just that there should be more room to the left to tempt the player.  ALternatively, the hole would be still be super if they just removed those islands.  The narrowness is somewhat out of character with the rest of the course, and if any hole needs a wide fairway, it would be this one.John V: Your thoughts?

JohnV

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
I agree that the left side is not useable.  The second time I played it I accidentally hit one down that side and it went down one of the gorges.  I don't see why anyone would want to play it that way.  Perhaps he just grassed it so that you might get lucky if you ended up over there.  I know I'll never aim that way.  Just remember if you play there, to aim more right than you think.  I agree that I would like to see more variation in the par 3s.  A neat short one would have been good, but I guess they play #6 up a lot so that could work.I totally agree with your comments on the bunker on #12.  It totally makes the hole and is in your mind during the shot.As far as WS vs BD, I will always prefer BD because it is natural while WS was created with dump trucks and bulldozers.  WS may be a "better" golf course (I haven't been there yet), but it is a constructed golf course vs a found golf course.  I guess that's just the traditionalist in me.  Also, I'm not having to kiss up to Pete Dye so that I can get into Crooked Stick.

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
Let's play put John and Lisa on the spot: how about comparing BD to the Kapalua Plantation Course? I would like a husband and wife answer, please.

John Morrissett

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
John V--GIve WS a few years to mature and the amount of earth that was moved should not be readily apprarent (I think).  I would be very interested to hear your views after playing WS.You're absolutely right about the need for a neat, short one-shotter at BD (especially if laid out perpendicular to the shore (and therefore the prevailing wind)).  That's interesting about the original second hole.  I can't help but think about how they could have built a terrific Redan running along those sand hills behind the 1st green.  It's the highest part of the property, so there would be great views as well.Ran M--First, you know how much I love the Plantation course at Kapalua -- there aren't many I would rather play.  The two are at opposite ends of the spectrum -- Kapalua, which is impossible to walk -- and Bandon Dunes, where yo have to walk. I would give the nod to Kapalua.  It simply has more shots that I enjoy and look forward to playing (e.g., the approach to the 7th).  Bandon is more of its own homogeneous entity while Kapalua is more fractured, but the individiual holes at Kapalua are so good.  Plus, K's last two holes win big-time.Bottom-line: for me to give this contest to a cart course means that Kapalua really is that good.  If the course were somehow compressed so that the distances between holes were negligible, it would be in my world top 20.  However, we must look at it for what it is -- terrific routing on a very severe piece of land.  Given the property, it was impossible to come out with an "ideal" course.(And, yes, John V, I'm sure you're posting my picture at the airports and boders of Oregon never to be allowed back into the state.)

DBE

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
Ran Gonna Be a Daddy and John Gonna be a Farmer debate of Whistling Straits, Bandon Dunes and KapaluaWait until you both get a look at Lost Dunes and you'll forget about all of those.  Some of Prairie Dunes, Crystal Downs and Cypress Point in Michigan.  Doak did a great job there.  It's unique in several ways and perhaps the best "Brad Klein Modern Courses" I've ever seen.  Doak will get rich after people play this one and word gets around.

Lisa Luigs Morrissett

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
Ok, here is the wife's reply for comparing Bandon Dunes and Kapalua (and by the way, thank you for asking my opinion - it doesn't happen a lot [understandably] in this forum):First, I must confess that I played the forward tees (5700 yards) at Kapalua because my game was in such disastrous shape that 6400 yards in Hawaiian winds would have destroyed me (and I would have pouted the entire trip). Also, it would be hard to construct a combination of tees since the distances between some holes are huge (#4: the guys are hitting long irons into the green and I am waiting for the green to clear so I can drive it). Therefore, I didn't play it at its most difficult for me. But in spite of all that, it was still quite challenging because of the difficulty of the greens and placement of the tee shots. It was also fun to play because of the sheer beauty of the whole resort. John and I definitely have dreams of winning the lottery and moving there. . .At Bandon Dunes, it was nice to play a perfect set of tees for me at 6100 (it doesn't happen a lot) and it was nice to be able to walk 36 and not be dead tired afterwards. I guess it would have been nice to play one of our three rounds in some wind, but it was calm the entire time. Again, we didn't play it at its most challenging.Before I started comparing the holes, I thought Kapalua would win hands down, but as I went along, it got very close:Kapalua: 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 15, 17, 18Bandon Dunes: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 14, 16Neither of the #13s win because I never made less than 6 at Kapalua and I still couldn't figure out where to hit the ball at Bandon Dunes after three rounds.So I guess that means Kapalua wins by a whisker (hope that since it wasn't Kapalua by a landslide it isn't grounds for divorce)P.S. to John V: Even if we did have to suck up to Mr. Dye to get into CS (which we don't, thank god), I am probably the only Morrissett (or Luigs) that he calls "Sweetie Pie" every time he sees me. . .

John Morrissett

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
Dearest Wife--You give the 14th to BD??!!?  The 14th at K is perhaps my favorite new short par four of the year.  

Lisa Luigs Morrissett

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
Dearest Husband:So what?Dearest Readers:You have just witnessed the essence of our marriage. . .

Ted_Sturges

Bandon Dunes Report
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 1999, 08:00:00 PM »
She is her father's daughter, isn't she!

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