Pinehurst No.2 - hardly the Second Coming!!

[Ran Morrissett]

This post is promoted by a shamelessly cheap post from "Did the Open help Carnoutie" wherein I was wrongly (perhaps even libelously) accused of adopting two different stances on the merits of Pinehurst No.2.For the record, Pinehurst is one of the world's top 20 or so courses. It is no better, no worse. World top 10 talk is nonsense.It is no better because there is a sameness to the challenge. At no point is a tee shot thrilling or does it make your heart beat faster (other than 1st tee jitters). There are no variety of hazards. Take Augusta's back nine. Water in the form of ponds and creeks front greens, are on the left side of greens, are along the right side of a green, and water is even over one green. There is a bunkerless hole, there is a hole where the bunkers are key, there is a swale that is key (the 13th), uphill shots, down hill shots. In short there is heaps of variety.At Pinehurst, the variety is in chipping with a three wood through to a putter - very admirable yes, but clearly not exhaustive or possessing great variety.The greatest courses (Cypress, Sand Hills, Royal Melbourne, Pine Valley, County Down etc.) are all built on a huge scale using mother nature at her fullest.Pinehurst is a better example of the art of the architect rather than the art of mother nature. And thus, as we all agree that nature is best, Pinehurst must move to the back of the bus when it comes to great courses, but it is still on the bus.The above is right and incontrovertible. Thank you for your time.

[Tom T.]

Pinehurst #2 is not an exciting course.  The holes that were originally designed by Donald Ross merely ran through the sand hills of central NC.  There were no water hazards, sand dunes, tremendous elevation changes or dramatic views.  It does get boring in that there are no real memorable holes but, there are no holes that are less than very good either.  I rate it somewhere in the US top 10 and the world top 20.  Does this mean we agree? The USGA had five years to get the setup right. Their change of mind after 259 1/2 weeks to cut the primary rough down to a height that would allow most shots to be hit far enough to reach the diabolical greens was perhaps the only sensible thing they've done the last couple of years. The Saturday course conditions were ridiculous though, with balls not stopping on greens unless they landed on the front upslopes.  Thank heaven it rained that night and into Sunday. Then we saw the rough as the USGA usually wants it to play when it was heavy with water.

[Bill M.]

"Nature is best" - what in the world does that mean, Ran? You almost seem to imply that any seaside hole with a dramatic view is better than 5 at #2. Or that Cypress was destined to be a great course simply due to its location and didn't need Mackenzie's genius. Don't be absurd.It's entirely plausible to argue that #2 is the best designed course in the world (meaning that the architect got the most out of the land that was possible). As this website seems to have as one of its primary goals to recognize and praise the greatest of architects (and virtually all of its readers seem to share that view), then to penalize Pinhurst because it's not on Long Island or 17 Mile Drive or the Firth of whatever is silly. Indeed, to keep a work that so exemplifies the architect's craft out of the top 10 should be anathama to any proponent of great architecture.  Moreover, to say that #2's variety is in its chipping is laughable. A course that presents you with holes 2, 3, 5, 9, 11, 13, and 14 isn't varied? What do you want - a pond with a fountain beside 18? Maybe the USGA can put a rotating car out there at the next Open.So there.(By the way, should any readers feel I'm being too hostile in my comments, it's only because the misguided creature I'm criticizing is my brother. So I'm allowed. But in that same vein of only criticizing family, I won't even get started on Tom T's comment that #2 has no memorable holes.)

[Ran Morrissett]

Dear Brother Bill,World top ten: (1) National Golf Links of America, Pine Valley, Cypress Point, Pebble Beach, Shinnecock, Royal County Down, Sand Hills, St. Andrews, Royal Melbourne and (10) Augusta National. Ballybunion is on the bench should Michael Jordan get tired.Please explain in careful detail which course Pinehurst replaces to be in the world top 10. Obviously, you rate being basically flat high as a criterion, so your only choice would be to say St. Andrews would drop out?I would love to see that in print. Then I'll post your home address and everyone can go throw eggs at your house.Cheers,

[Bill M.]

Ran - Lovely to hear from you. Well, #2 is the best course in the southeast, so you figure it out. If Augusta did not have the cachet of exclusiveness or the Masters, and people could evaluate it purely as a course, its reputation would inevitably decline. Yes, it (arguably) has the best par 3, par 4, and par 5 in golf (no small feat), but it has some poor holes as well. Its rankings are the direct result of so many features that are not design related. Don't get me wrong - it's a awfully fine course, but, again, for a two guys for whom design and architertural integrity are so paramount, I'm suprised you and brother John aren't at least a bit higher on #2 and lower on Augusta.Quit supporting the Australian breweries single-handedly and maybe you'll come to your senses.

[Ran Morrissett]

Match Play Augusta National vs Pinehurst No. 2 The Winner is declared Best Course in the South East behind Seminole1 Pine 1 up2 Pine 2 up3 Pine 1 up 4 Pine 1 up5 Pine 1 up6 Pine 2 up 7 Pine 1 up8 Pine 2 up 9 Pine 3 up10 Pine 2 up11 Pine 1 up12 even13 Aug 1 up14 even15 even16 Pine 1 up17 Pine 2 up18 Pine 3 upIrionically, this proves that you are right, which is disappointing to say the least.Therefore, I will switch lines of attack - Merion is not in the world top 10, so there.

[Ted_Sturges]

Bill,Thank you for confirming for all of us that Ran is the 3rd most knowledgable Morrissett brother on the subject of golf (there are only 3 brothers aren't there?)To Ran,Take back that last comment on Merion.

[John Morrissett]

Ran:If you are going to make such foolish comments as the one about Merion,please do not use the family name.  I will write up the great course fornext month, but suffice to say that there are not close to ten courses inthe planet that are superior to Merion (East).  If you disagree, then namethe ten courses.  Don't even try to say that you would rather play AugustaNational or Pebble Beach than Merion. (And please don't replay that tiredrecord of "Would you rather play along the Pacific Ocean or dodge cars whilecrossing Ardmore Avenue?")Perhaps the best quotation on Merion is Doak's, as he writes that it isperhaps the one course where he could not even suggest any improvements.John

[Ted_Sturges]

John,Thank you for your comments on Merion.Please continue to share your knowledge with your Aussie brother.  Perhaps some of it will rub off on him.  While you're at it, please explain to him that the proper term for a match that is tied is "All Square" (see:  match play-Pinehurst No. 2 vs. Augusta National). What is "even"?  I really believe that if you and Bill continue to work with him, he might make something of himself.