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Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2006, 11:22:07 AM »
Paul:

For one coming from the UK and/or with lots of experience in REAL links golf, of course Spanish Bay plays nothing like a true links.

But for the 90+% of the golf world without that experience, isn't it close enough?

The seabreezes, views, bagpipers... well at least I wouldn't say it's complete false advertising to call it linksy.

Now if you want to say that about Half Moon Bay-Ocean course, I'd agree.  But Spanish Bay?

Close enough.  Just yeah, don't try to sell it to purists.  But then again, you'd think purists wouldn't need advertising anyway.

 ;)
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2006, 11:28:21 AM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on July 26, 2006, 11:06:11 AM
And while I wouldn't call 18 crap, I will say it would be nice if
they cut the area on the left of the hazard up by the green
as fairway, as was the intent.

TH

You mean, like this?  Sure ain't cut at rough height.   :)


redanman,

Aren't you a card-and-pencil guy?   If you play different sets
of tees, then you can't turn your score in for handicap
purposes.  Interpolation isn't allowed.  Isn't that what golf is all about?   ;)

Adam,

It just looked like you altered the numbers to make your point
better.  It looked funny since the post at the top of the
thread had them listed.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 11:32:44 AM by Scott_Burroughs »
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2006, 11:35:26 AM »
Scott - no - it's not in your pic - there's a strip
 to the LEFT of that hazard which goes back
about 75 yards - when you look at maps of
the course, it's usually shown as fairway.  It's
narrow but not crazy narrow - makes for a
tantalizing option if cut low, allowing a crack
at the green in two, running it up along that left side.

TH
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 11:36:01 AM by Tom Huckaby »
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2006, 11:42:02 AM »
Huck,

Got it.  I checked out the AOTD, and sure enough, there it
is.  I didn't know it was there while playing (alone).  Didn't
matter, my wayward drive to the right did not make that
alternate fairway an alternative had I known.... ;)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 11:43:15 AM by Scott_Burroughs »
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2006, 11:46:38 AM »
Scott - no hassles man.   But you can
see from the aerial the intent... Make
that fairway and options really do
open up.  One time there I decided
screw it, I'm gonna hit it over there anyway...
Not a wise move.  It was very wet and very
deep.

 :'(

Interesting also, in that aerial is sure as hell
looks like fairway... maybe there is hope.
I've never played it when it was cut as such though.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 11:50:05 AM by Tom Huckaby »
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2006, 11:50:20 AM »
Huck is dead right.

When the 18th gave the golfer the option
 to bomb the ball up the left,
 in an attempt to reach in two,
it was a much better golf hole.

If only because you didn't have to aim
 at those eyesores of massive revenue,
the condos.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 11:51:09 AM by Adam Clayman »
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2006, 12:08:53 PM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on July 26, 2006, 11:50:20 AM
Huck is dead right.

When the 18th gave the golfer the option
 to bomb the ball up the left,
 in an attempt to reach in two,
it was a much better golf hole.

If only because you didn't have to aim
 at those eyesores of massive revenue,
the condos.

The eyesores (I agree) of massive revenue aimed at from the tee:


redanman,

The central bunkers are still 'rough' bunkers:

#5 (back rough of bunker trio at very bottom):


#10:


#11:


#14:
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2006, 12:40:56 PM »
There's no doubt the company is backassward
 on many fronts.
However, focusing on current maintenance practices,
isn't much of an architectural analysis.
At least they've provided us with the dichotmy
 of a classically cut fairway.
 
Scott,
Thanx for posting those pictures.
 That place looks just horrible.  ::)


I gaurantee that if management would've hired someone like
 Pete Galea, the naturalness of many features
 would be enhanced and the overall look and feel of it,
 wouldn't be so... so... so...GCSAA.  :)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 12:42:17 PM by Adam Clayman »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2006, 04:23:49 PM »
I think I expressed my feelings about SB above and don't feel the need to add anything other than the fact that the next time I stay at Pebble Beach, I will play Pebble 7 times, Spyglass 3 times and Spanish Bay 0.

'nuf said.

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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2006, 04:25:52 PM »
Paul - that's pretty tough competition.

I guess if I were made of money and could afford
10 rounds plus staying there, I'd do it:

5 Pebble
3 Spyglass
2 Spanish Bay

So hell we're not all THAT far apart.

My point remains that compared to the mundane crap
that makes up my normal golfing fare, SB is pretty darn
great.  Compared to PB and SH, yes it is weak.

TH
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2006, 04:33:34 PM »
I tell ya what, that course doesn't look so bad.  From the pix it looks far more interesting than the Palm Springs course thread.  If they could cut the the grass around the bunkers to fairway height the bunkers would better and play bigger.  What is the green fee?

Ciao

Sean
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Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2006, 04:34:48 PM »
Quote from: redanman on July 26, 2006, 11:56:25 AM

p.s. To look at that AOTD one really sees a lot of the differences between seaside golf in the us vs real links golf.  I don't see any fairway bunkers at all, every single one of them is a rough bunker, even the centrally placed ones.

I liked Spanish Bay alright (I played it several years ago), but those islands of rough around the center bunkers really do look silly.  What's the thinking behind that?
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2006, 04:34:55 PM »
Tom

I'll go you one better.  If I had ten rounds at Brown Deer, Forest Preserve National, Peter Jans National, and Spanish Bay, here's my breakdown:


Brown Deer - 4
Forest Preserve National - 3
Peter Jans National - 3
Spanish Bay - 0


 :-[ :-[ :-[
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2006, 04:35:32 PM »
Sean - it is a pretty darn good course.
However, it isn't remotely close to worth
the green fee:

THE LINKS AT SPANISH BAY
Resort Guests $240 incl. cart
Non-Resort Guests $240 + cart

 :'( :'(
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2006, 04:37:13 PM »
Quote from: Paul Richards on July 26, 2006, 04:34:55 PM
Tom

I'll go you one better.  If I had ten rounds at Brown Deer, Forest Preserve National, Peter Jans National, and Spanish Bay, here's my breakdown:


Brown Deer - 4
Forest Preserve National - 3
Peter Jans National - 3
Spanish Bay - 0


 :-[ :-[ :-[

Paul, it's clear you hate the course and there's little
I can say.  But in counterpoint -taking cost out of the
equation if that's allowable - here's how I'd break down
10 comparables out here:

Spanish Bay 9
Santa Teresa 1
San Jose Muni 0
Santa Clara Muni 0

TH
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2006, 04:39:50 PM »
>it's clear you hate the course

Tom

Untrue.  

I don't 'hate' it.

I just have no respect for it.

Big difference.

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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2006, 04:42:55 PM »
I stand corrected.

But my point remains.  It's so superior to
MY normal fare that this conversation is
kinda funny - to me anyway.

TH
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2006, 04:45:39 PM »
>this conversation is
kinda funny - to me anyway.

Agreed.

Let's just agree to disagree.


Have a nice day!

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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2006, 04:46:21 PM »
Paul - sounds good to me - and no harm done
here, that's for sure!

 ;D
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2006, 04:47:51 PM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on July 26, 2006, 04:35:32 PM
Sean - it is a pretty darn good course.
However, it isn't remotely close to worth
the green fee:

THE LINKS AT SPANISH BAY
Resort Guests $240 incl. cart
Non-Resort Guests $240 + cart

 :'( :'(

Huckster

California Dreamin'.  Given that nobody seems to rave about Spanish Bay I think I will give it a miss for $240!  

Ciao

Sean
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2006, 04:49:42 PM »
Sean - that's cool, most do.
Which is sorta sad, because as I say,
it is a pretty darn good course.

TH
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2006, 04:52:13 PM »
Quote from: Paul Richards on July 26, 2006, 04:34:55 PM
Tom

I'll go you one better.  If I had ten rounds at Brown Deer, Forest Preserve National, Peter Jans National, and Spanish Bay, here's my breakdown:


Brown Deer - 4
Forest Preserve National - 3
Peter Jans National - 3
Spanish Bay - 0


 :-[ :-[ :-[

Paul, when they used to maintain Forest Preserve Nat, maybe...

but I found Brown Deer to be  a disappointment, and haven't played Jans
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Mike Hoak

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Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2006, 05:36:08 PM »
Here is a question.  Would you guys play it for $120?  They are offering that up to my foursome as a twilight rate if we tee off at 4:00.

Would everyone agree that it's better than Poppy?
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Tom Huckaby

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2006, 05:44:06 PM »
$120 at 4pm is a ripoff - you likely won't finish.

I used to get it at $75 twilight, and that seemed like an OK deal to me.  Everything here is too expensive.

I wouldn't say it's a better golf course than Poppy Hills - they're on a par.  Us NCGA members just do get great deals at PH, so it's way better if price is considered.  But outside of that, I see these courses being pretty equal.

TH
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 05:44:26 PM by Tom Huckaby »
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John Goodman

Re:Spanish Bay
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2006, 05:49:43 PM »
If I'm out there, you bet I'd play it for $120.  I've never played Poppy, and I wouldn't skip Pebble or Spyglass for Spanish Bay, but I'd definitely play it at that price.  

C'mon, Doak gives it a 7 in the CD (without the dune restoration fences) and 5 (with them).  That means that it has the bones, in TD's view, to be "an excellent course, worth checking out if you get anywhere within 100 miles."  I'd say 7 is a little high, but I think it's every bit of a 5.5 or 6.  
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