Family Values vs Management Values

[Jim_Kennedy]

Kelly,
I think if you looked into the portfolios at any one of the numerous management companies you'd find courses that fit the "family value" model. Private mgmt. cos. ran 25% of all muni courses in 1995 and I don't suspect this number has decreased.
There are 5,610 golf courses, about 1/3 of all courses in the U.S., that charge $20.00 or less to play.
 

[JNC Lyon]

This course sounds like the west course at Oak Hill. It is easily playable for all, loads of fun with the greens. The short walks from greens to tees and a cozy feel result in short rounds. The course is used by much of the membership, especially since the East course is unplayable for most ladies, juniors and seniors. This is, unfortunately for most, a private club. The public golfer in our city has a wide variety of choices. The best might be a 36 hole complex north of the city. A longer course for the best players and a fun 6000 yarder to spread out play. With a range, three practice greens, a pitching course and the best hamburgers anywhere, it certainly fits Shackleford's description of a neighborhood course.

[RJ_Daley]

Barney, my paternal grandfather would have had the same non-golf, social membership at the same country club as Frank McCort's Father ("ANGELA'S ASHES") and provided the same family benefits of membership therein as the elder McCort offered his brood.

My maternal grandfather ocasionally held the position of chef that was offered to him by the State of Wisconsin at an exclusive social country club called the Milwaukee House of Corrections, for his diligent work in bringing libation to the masses during the dry years.  

[JakaB]

"Imagine a scenario in which a family goes to the neighrborhood layout for a friendly game, shares a few laughs and gets some exercise...Shotmaking is an artform.  Courses fit into their native environment.  And a round can be played in three hours because the designs are not built around a power game.

That was the golf our great grandfathers tried to hand down to us.  Gradually, we have drifted from that model...

Who are these great grandfathers....where outside of the great private clubs in the country are you going to find people whose great grandfathers played golf...is this a joke or do we need to seriously question who these people are that are saying the game is in need of repair.   I don't know anyone except trust fund babies that want to go back to the way things were when it comes to family access....please let me know if you are not able to enjoy the same access to great and fun golf that your great grandfather had and I promise you I will do everything I can to lend you a hand.

[RJ_Daley]

Proof of affordable family golf, right here in the USA! $2.00 per play, $15 individual, $20 family membership, unlimitted golf.

[Tim_Weiman]

Kelly Blake Moran:

I'd like to know more about the way these courses are managed and their economics than I do. Without any inside knowledge I would simply say their management is fairly spartan. The starter and person taking green fees are usually older, retired people, probably working for a fairly low wage. There is usually a ranger - sometimes two - who work for the privilege of free golf in the entire Metroparks system. Neither course features any bunkers. Greens are maintained at pretty slow speeds. Rough is cut pretty low and you usually don't see much time wasted looking for lost balls. The clubhouse facilities are very simple without any real frills.

Children are especially welcome at the smaller course. If you play it, you just have to accept what the place is all about: a place for beginners.

The larger course was designed by Stanley Thompson right around the time he did the highly regarded 18 hole muni Sleepy Hollow.

All in all, I'd love to see more such courses. They are very affordable, pleasant to walk and a good place to learn the game.

[JohnV]

The cheapest golf in America is right here in Western PA:

Information from golfable.com

Buhl Farm Golf Course and Driving Range
This course, near the Ohio border, was donated along with 300 acres of land by the late steel industrialist, Frank Buhl. There are no green fees. The course is very well-maintained with wide-open fairways and flat, plush greens.

It is 9 holes 2378 yards par 34 with bent grass greens and winter rye fairways.

But don't where your tank tops or cutoffs, they aren't allowed.

Here is a good article about the place: Sharon Hearld Article

[Jim_Kennedy]

JohnV,
Can't get much more accomodating than free golf.  I think it's interesting to note that there are 60 courses within a 25 mile radius of Buhl Farm.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Big B,

I play at Moselem Springs Golf Club in Fleetwood, Pa.

Jim,

It seems in addition to architects being to blame for designs that have ruined the game and the business and limited the access to courses by the average golfer, management companies have been fingered as a big part of the problem as well.  At some point in the process the owner ponders just how he or she is going to manage and operate the facility.  Now, it seems easy to name the architects that can design interesting course that have strategic value, can be built at a reasonable cost, and can be played by most golfers and provide enjoyment.  Who is doing the same from the management level?  What model of management is more likely to be compatible to the virtues espoused in that first paragraph?

"Imagine a scenario in which a family goes to the neighrborhood layout for a friendly game, shares a few laughs and gets some exercise...Shotmaking is an artform.  Courses fit into their native environment.  And a round can be played in three hours because the designs are not built around a power game."

I have been to middle to low end facilities and there definately is a difference in the feeling you get from the employees, and the atmosphere of the place when it is privately managed versus managed by a large management company.  Is this a factor in the stagnation of golf rounds, a minor one or a major one.

I am more concerned about that at this point rather than dissecting the meaning of shotmaking as an artform, and the role of our great grandfathers.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Why can't low end family value courses have real solid strategic interest?  Who prevents that? Don't blame money, could it be a lack of creativity, and a lack of interest by investors?  Who wants to put modest money into a golf course, and who needs an architect at a modest to low end course?  No one in my modest little neighborhood of tract homes hired an architect.  At some point in golf development creative minds chasing the big money and the big name may have abandoned the smaller projects and left them to less creative, inspired, and caring people.  Did this spurn the prolifiration of the CCFD market, which definately drew the interest of the big architects and the management companies.  Many of these modest courses people have posted leave me with the feeling that the designs are less than inspiring. I am certain there are exceptions.  It is an assumption and not intended to offend, but I did grow up in an area of very afordable courses and creativity seemed lacking.  Did it have to be that way in the beginning.  Could the property have been made into a better course that still delivers at the modest green fee that attracts the local golfers.

[Tim_Weiman]

Kelly Blake Moran:

To my untrained eye, nothing more was done than clear trees and build tees and greens for the two nine hole courses I cited that are part of Cleveland'd Metroparks system.

Could more have been to make these courses more interesting? Could it have been done without sugnificantly adding to green fees? Yes and maybe yes.

But, honestly I'm not sure it is necessary. It is so hard for many beginners to just squarely hit a golf ball, that these courses provide all the challenge 95 percent of the people playing them can handle. For example, it is very unusual to see anyone hit a green in regulation. On the opening hole of Mastic Woods - a 315 yard slight dogleg par 4 - it is far more common for people to take 5-6 strokes to reach the green than 2-3 shots.

I wish there was a way to provide more opportunities for this segment of golf. The high end CCFAD stuff just doesn't work for these beginner and/or low income golfers.

[Bill Gayne]

Kelly starts this thread with:

"Imagine a scenario in which a family goes to the neighrborhood layout for a friendly game, shares a few laughs and gets some exercise..."

In the United States today this is unimangible. Half the families in this country are single parent families. In the majority of two parent families both parents work full time. The kids are shuffled from one caretaker to planned activity to youth sports league until the parent come home. Most families are lucky to be able to eat together let alone to routinely allocate time to go play golf. This is just scratching the surface of current family issues.

While society would be better off if we returned to a time when golf could possibly become a family activity it is unlikely.  

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I have gone to Kiawah with my family for a number of years and I have always felt that they are geared toward family golf during the summer.  We didn't go last year but we are expecting to go back this summer and it is my understanding that they have done alot of work on Oak Point, which is not a power course and has quite a few holes with interesting shot values, etc.  It doesn't have the prestige of the other courses but really is a fun test and great for trying different types of shots. The important point is that my son who is 10, and has played since he was 6, has always enjoyed spending an afternoon with me on the course.  At Kiawah they have a separate set of kids tees and their own scorecard, except on the Ocean Course,  so they feel special about playing the game.  During the summer the fee for kids is half  the adult fee whenever you are playing, and this would include the morning times.  In the afternoon there is far less pressure as it is really hot and not too many people are playing.  Still, it is surprising how fast you can play when a kid can concentrate on his game rather than worrying about the people behind him.  

I do agree that it is hard to find a course today which is being built with the family in mind but economics make that just about impossible.  Most of those courses are munis and local governments just don't have the money to build golf courses.  I think that many courses are missing an opportunity where they could encourage family golf in the afternoons where families would feel they are welcome and come out on a regular basis.

Jerry--

Actually, the work at Oak Point is taking place this summer.  We're turning No. 1 into a par 5, getting rid of No. 3 (an awful hole with a 150 forced carry to reach a small green.  Turning No. 3's tee into the tee for No. 4 (which will become No. 3), creating a new par 3 No. 9 with an island green.  Creating this island green (creating wetland) will allow us to fill in the first marsh crossing on No. 18 making it a less quirky hole.

As for family friendly golf, how's this?  We started it last summer.  It's call the Family Tee program.  After 6:30, kids play for free and parents play for only $45.  However, everyone must play from the kid's tees.  With our new Director of Golf being the VP of the PGA of America (and will become the president of the PGA in November), we're really pushing growing the game...

[Jim_Kennedy]

Kelly.
As Mike from Kiawah posted, offering families the opportunity of reduced rates in a time slot that doesn't affect other players is possible. I especially like the fact that they require the adults to play from the same tee as the kids.
Any club in America can do this whether they are run by companies or individuals. Unfractured families include moms and kids, and women and juniors represent a healthy percentage of the available growth pool. It's bad business to ignore this group, especially in today's climate.
I think the bright side of sluggish growth is that courses can't ride the wave and must go back to attracting a wider base of customers.

I don't agree with the idea that the family value courses used as examples in this discussion suffer from as much terrible architecture as you believe. Even if I'm wrong and they do, what is the matter with that? Spending time with the family on most any course is better than not be able to do so because of cost, isn't it?

I think it was the siren song of $$ that inexorably led to golf-in-America-today and the notes being sung nearly lured everyone into the trap.