Whatever happened to Tom Weiskopf?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
Believe it or not, in my posts, I'm trying to give my honest take, but talking to him actually had me pretty surprized the way he treated me. I was more then cordial--he was threatening from the very first moment. I never feel that way about people--with Tom Weiskopf, I did.

So, when I answer the question, "Whatever happened to Tom Weiskopf" I can only answer that I think he is a raving lunatic with serious issues and it has affected his design career. I think being in the open wilds of Montana are perfect for a guy like him, and I fear for anyone that has to be around a guy like that for more then a 1 hour period is putting themselves in danger of whatever he is capable of--some like yourself may think not, but for me, I'll keep my distance.

Let us also not forget his plans for Ohio State's two MacKenzie-designed/Maxwell-built golf courses.

With that, was he (Weiskopf) involved with Moorish in any of the Ojai remodeling before that occured before Carter Moorish's very misguided work?

[DMoriarty]

Weiskopf is also doing a design for the exclusive community in Montana called Yellowstone GC near the park. I believe it will open sometime next year.

For what it's worth, Yellowstone Club (not to be confused with Yellowstone CC, Billings MT) offers a rather unique amenity; a full-blown private ski resort for members and their guests.  Some days there are more lift operators than skiers on the mountain.  Wouldn't want the elite to have to rub elbows with the rabble across the valley at Big Sky ($60/day)

[Sam W]

Tommy,

Tom W was not involved to the best of my knowledge in Jay's original work at Ojai in 1987-88. However, Jay was also doing work at Marbella at the same time and they might have discussed some items concerning Ojai. I believe the owners at Ojai declined to pay the extra $ to add Tom's name to the project.

[SteveTL]

I've worked with Tom on projects and have found him (to me) to be very cordial, thoughtful, and hard working...  I've seen him explode at people - usually for treading heavily on "his turf".  He doesn't have much tact - and does have a quick temper.  I'm not surprised at his response regarding Tommy's phone call at his home - not that I think it's the right way to handle things, but that IS "his turf"...

In my experience (all just pre-breakup), Tom is not a drawing and topo-map guy (in fact he doesn't read topo terribly well) but is hard working in the field.  I've seen him on site hours before scheduled meetings before the crack of dawn and on days when no meetings are scheduled walking and working.

Although the drivable par-4 is part of his formula - I like it.  Those are fun holes, I wish more architects included the sub-320 par 4!

[Lou_Duran]

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

It is unprecedented and somewhat scary for me to have earned the Emperor's editorial approval.

At the same time, I regret that super archie Tom Doak characterized my comments regarding Mr. Weiskopf as bashing.  Had I wanted to bash "Terrible" Tom, I could have chosen far more damning and well corroborated stories.

I actually sort of like Tom.  He apparently cares greatly for the Scarlet course just as I do.  I certainly respect his talent as a player and some of his broadcasting work.  He just would not be the guy who I would urge a young kid to approach for an autograph for fear of what his reaction might be.

I have only played two original W & M courses, Buffalo Creek (Rockwall, TX- public) and Mira Vista (Fort Worth, TX- private), and one renovation, Northwood (Dallas- private).  I enjoy these courses tremendously, and find them to be highly playable for the average player (from the appropriate set of tees), yet challenging enough to hold significant local and regional competitions.  With Northwood, a Diddel course which held the US Open in the 1950s, W & M seem to have done a wonderful job of preserving the original course.

In my limited experience with these architects' works, I have not seen anything to verify Mr. Doak's observation that Weiskopf designs from the perspective of his peers.  Knowing a little bit about Weiskopf, I had concluded that Morrish had an ameliorating influence on Tom's design work.

Pine Dunes, a Morrish-sans Weiskopf design near Frankston, TX is a smashing architectural success.  I don't see where Tom's input was greatly missed, though there are a couple of holes that seem to lack some finishing.

Weiskopf is doing a TPC course near McKinney, Texas (just north of Dallas).   It will be interesting to contrast his work here to the other courses he did in the area with Morrish, and also to his ex-partners solo work nearby.

Finally, I may be mistaken, but I think that I read an interview in a golf magazine with Weiskopf awhile back which included some revelations about problems with depression.  I don't recall if he was diagnosed as a manic-depressive, but it appeared that he was receiving treatment.  As we learned through another gca.com colleague, depression is a very serious matter, and no one should make light of it.  I do wonder, however, whether the effects of medication (putting him on a more even keel) will have a negative impact on his creativity as a designer.  Perhaps I just have far too much time in my hands.



   

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Thanks for weighing-in on this Sam (I think I know who you are correct?)

As I have told you before, I was afforded the opportunity once for a quick peak of Marbella when it was being built, and it was by of all people a guy that just a year before was a starting 3rd string quaterback for the then OC-based Rams, who found himself out of a job at the end of the season. He took the best offer, and it was for the Marbella Development people.

This is a course that flies way under the radar in Orange County, and I hear it is usually the best maintained course in SoCal featuring a double green on the downhill 9th and 18th holes.

It was funny, but the first time I went to Ojai, they actually claimed Weiskopf as part of the team. I din't believe it then, but never got a full answer. The Ojai people tend to relly misinterpret a lot of things.

Let me make no mistake about it--I really wanted Tom Wieskopf to do an monthly for Golf Club Atlas, Ran can tell you. I think that the problem was exactly as Steve TL has suggested: I walked into his space without asking and he had no idea who I was. But it still doesn't make it right, especially since I was trying to be accomodating to him by profusely apologizing, which is my usual natural reaction to those kinds of situations. It was however clearly evident that something is wrong for someone to act the way he does, and it isn't right.

But thanks guys for being somewhat sympathetic and not attacking me on this, especially if you are in close to him. I think you know where I'm coming from, and I certainly understand the same for you.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Weiskopf is also doing The Canyon Golf Club at Snake River Canyon Ranch near Jackson Hole, WY
www.snakerivercanyonranch.com

Here's a quote from the website:
Golf Odyssey's April issue previewed the Canyon Golf Club and, in an interview with Tom Weiskopf, the course designer, the article states, "he told us that, in a certain sense, the terrain is analogous to what was said about Pebble Beach...the most spectacular meeting of land and sea. With the Canyon Golf Club, you have one of the most stunning settings in the Rockies." The preview states, "It is no wonder that Weiskopf thinks the Canyon Golf Club will be one of the courses that establishes his legacy." Weiskopf says, "Designing a golf course along the Snake River with mature cottonwoods, conifers, lush meadows, and the overwhelming magnificence of the mountains at every turn is an experience of a lifetime. We let natural beauty and the contour of the land and river be our guiding inspiration."

[SteveTL]

Tommy,

I've seen Tom blow up at some very decent people with good intentions.  You aren't the first nor the last...  I've also seen him surprise with some kind words and thoughtful insight...  You hit the nail on his response...!  

   

[Justin_Hanrahan]

I worked on a Weiskopf course in 97 and saw him from reasonably close (when he was on site) in a personal and professional context. Personally, I found him a bit distant and aloof, but that is not my point.

As an architect, what he did was so-so and I was mainly concerned by the number of times he and his assistant discussed the course along the lines of "hey, we could do what we did on the 14th at so-and-so course...that would work great here" or "the green on 5 at so-and-so course would fit perfectly here".

I found this concerning on a couple of levels, one, because I reckon you are paying for a fresh, creative approach to a piece of land that is, by definition, unique. The other reason is that the owners/developers (and even staff) deserve a little respect and don't need to feel like they are being fed an old idea.

I know that there are few truly new ideas out there, but he/they could have kept it to themselves and we would have carried on like happy little campers...a bit of diplomacy, I'd call it.

Cheers

[Lou_Duran]

Justin:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the approach you described.  Hopefully, we all rely on our successful experiences to make decisions.  Certainly MacDonald and Raynor were not shy about borrowing from the best holes in the UK.  The great thing about golf, that no matter how hard one tries to copy, things tend to come out just different enough.  Even at the Tour 18 courses which claim to replicate certain holes at famous courses, they are but a mere resemblence.  For the most part, I give Weiskopf and Morrish high marks for being innovative, and for providing fun, full of variety golf.

[Mike Hendren]

Totally non-architectural related:

The first year the seniors came to Nashville, Weiskopf and Trevino had tee times within thirty minutes of each other.  Ingress/egress for the tournament was awful with remote parking, bus trip, etc.  I left work mid-day for a four hour round trip just so I could watch those two hit golf balls on the range for thirty minutes.  With the exception of Woods, I doubt I'd walk across the street to see any of the modern players do the same.  

What talent.

Regards,

Mike

[Steve_ Shaffer]

For those interested in a review of Seven Canyons in Sedona,AZ:
www.golfarizona.com/departments/coursereviews/seven-canyons-golf.htm

Interview/story re Weiskopf:
www.travelgolf.com/departments/clubhouse/profiles/tom-weiskopf.htm

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I read an interview with Tom Weiskopf where he admitted to having troubles with alcohol.  I can't find it now, but that may help explain his behavior.

I did find an interesting interview  in Golf Digest, from 2000:

http://www.golfdigest.com/features/index.ssf?/features/inferno_9kvcwj5c.html

On splitting up with Jay Morrish:

"Basically, it was a family deal. Blood was thicker than water. He wanted to work with his young son. He wanted his son to come to work for us, and I had said, "Jay, he can come to work for us, but I'm not going to pay one penny of his salary. He's not a college graduate. He doesn't have a degree in landscape architecture. You want to pay for that, he wants to learn, that's fine. But I'm not paying a dime of it." I think Jay had a problem with that. I know his wife did. It was his decision. It hurt me; I was devastated. But Jay is a terrific guy; we're still friends. He's sharp as a tack, and the best technician in the business."

And advice for Tiger Woods.  Remember, this is 2000, in the middle of his unreal run:

"But one bit of advice would be to find a set of golf clubs that he has confidence in and play with them until he wears them out. Then find another set that's identical and use those. Don't fall into the equipment trap. I've seen that ruin so many players."

[Matthew Schulte]

Troon Golf is said to be developing a private club in Colorado Springs called "FLYING HORSE RANCH" that Weiskopf is designing.

Yes, his designs do have a very similar look and rythym to them, however, I too have enjoyed almost every course of his that I have played.  Particularly The Ridge at Castle Pines and Troon North.  One thing that Weiskopf seems to do well is to make holes look more difficult than they really are.  

Forest Dunes (I haven't been to) seemed to be a departure from his earlier work.  

[T_MacWood]

Lou
I know Bill Naperstick...he used to hang out at the golf course (OSU) a lot...although I haven't seen him around in a couple years. You and I probably crossed paths...I was a Starter (manning the Starter's shack) the last few years you were in Columbus....one of the few who wasn't a retiree.

Never met Weiskopf....I caddied for his good friend Ed Sneed...a very fine gentleman.

[TEPaul]

MartinD said;

"I read an interview with Tom Weiskopf where he admitted to having troubles with alcohol.  I can't find it now, but that may help explain his behavior."

In that case I think Tom should get back into golf architecture bigtime---it's not great to have an alcohol problem in life but when it comes to creative golf architecture there's basically nothing better!! I realize that golf architects sometimes need to get out on site early in the morning and start creating so they do have to get that flask working early and if they reach the end of the day with anything left in the flask I'd basically consider the day to be a potential creative failure!

I did notice that report about Weiskopf falling into a bog and almost losing his life--and I'm sorry to hear that but if I had to lose my life, falling into a bog and ending it all on a beautiful golf site would be about the best way to go I could think of!

[les_claytor]

Weiskopf Designs is pretty busy and are doing very well as a small firm.  Tom has a very qualified designer, Phil Smith, who worked for Nicklaus for quite a while who handles the documents and designs in very much the same manner as Jay Morrish's.  They do a good job working it out on paper, but are flexible on site and will work diligently to deliver a product they are happy with.  I believe they have work going on in HI, growing-in @ Dallas, planning in Mexico, and quite a few other foreign jobs.  I know they've finished a few in AZ, MO, HI and elsewhere in the last few years.

Tom is very involved with the courses in the dirt and he will work to solve problems and refine the design.  I admire his opinions on golf course design and like the courses they develop.

Personally, Tom is nothing but gracious and will extend himself for clients to accomodate personal requests.  I've found him to be sincere in his personal contacts, i.e. he ain't putting on a show, and he remembers people.  He is somewhat aloof, but I think he's just running things through his head most of the time.  People say I come off in the same manner.

Tommy, I've known Tom for almost ten years, and I don't think I would cold call him at home.  I can't think of any professional athletes I would cold call.  I don't think his response was unexpected or totally out of line.  

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I will never forget my first meeting with Tom W.  I was attempting to get some interviews to run on the news that night from the L.A. Open at Riviera in 1979.  It was raining.  I asked him for some time and he said sure, no problem.  When the rain got bad, he said let's go inside the locker room and finish it.  I didn't know this is a big no no with the players.  Some attendant came over and tried to chase me and my camera crew away.  Weiskopf stepped in and said it was okay.  Very gracious and answered anything I asked.  

It sounds like his design career is going fine.  Designing for mostly private clubs out West and not getting much publicity.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

from today's www.pga.com

"TOP OF THE WORLD: Tom Weiskopf apparently likes to play where he lives. That’s why he’s designing a signature golf course Spanish Peaks, a private country club community near Big Sky Resort in Montana. Weiskopf has a home adjacent to the back nine at Spanish Peaks, which is scheduled to open its first nine holes in 2005 and the second nine in 2006."

www.spanish-peaks.com

[Robert Kimball]

Some interesting comments from the 2000 GD interview about Augusta . . . .

Have you implemented any of the design features at Augusta into your golf courses?

Absolutely. I love the concept of false fronts and reachable par 5s, which you see at Augusta. A false front is a slope on the side or front of the green that is so severe as to be unpinnable. That's the case on the fifth and 14th holes at Augusta. Almost all of my courses have a false front or two. And I love the risk-reward philosophy you see on Augusta's 13th and 15th holes. Those are Alister Mackenzie trademarks, and I'm, a big fan of Mckenzie.

Other features: How about the bunkering?

I love Mackenzie's bunkering, although the bunkers at Augusta are not as pretty as the ones he built in the beginning. The sand is wonderful to look at and play out of, but over the years they've taken away the beautiful fingering of the bunkers there. The bunkers at the bottom of the fairway on 10 are an exception, but they're the only remnants of the way the bunkers there used to be. Through evolution, of trying to eliminate maintenance, they eliminated those fingers and they've turned them into all kinds of ovals and kidneys.

If you could make any changes to the golf course, what would they be?

I would consider several. The 18th hole could be improved. The pines on the right have grown out, the drip line (the far edge of the tree branches) is much farther to the left, so the player is forced to hit the ball farther to the left -- right where the fairway bunkers are. The bunkers are right where you want to drive the ball. So some guys are taking irons off the tee so they don't reach the bunkers. That isn't right, because Augusta is a driver's golf course. Or else they just drive the ball to the left of the bunkers, from where the hole is still very playable. The solution to both problems is to move both of the fairway bunkers farther to the left.

The second hole, there are bunkers to the right that stop a bad shot from going into an even worse spot. I haven't seen the new tee (implemented for the 1999 tournament), but I always thought the bunkers were in the wrong place strategically.

The third hole, I just totally disagree with. I'd go back to the original design of the third hole. Just take all that crap out on the left, the mounds and the bunkers that are down there and make it a big, wide fairway. If the pin is cut on the left side of that green, you don't want to come in from the left side of the fairway, believe me. If the fairway is big and wide, the player would have to think about which side of the fairway to drive to. As it is now, they don't have to think at all. The bunkers and mounding demand that you play to the right.