The Meadow Club

[Mark_Rowlinson]

By complete chance I was in San Francisco in January 2003 and 2004 and on both occasions was treated to golf at The Meadow Club.  This year I was very impressed with the revisions that had been made to the bunkering and, especially, to the green complexes.  The light was fading rapidly and we didn't have time for a full round, but it was enough to appreciate the considerable differences made to those greens which have been expanded out to the very rims of the bunkers.  There are many remarkable contours.  Given how new some of those green surfaces are it was impressive that you simply couldn't 'see the joins'.  Further work of this kind is planned for next year.

What is the opinion of those rather more familiar with The Meadow Club than I?

[THuckaby2]

Mark:  

Meadow Club has been discussed a lot in here.  Mike DeVries is doing the restoration and by all accounts it is pretty incredible... I haven't seen it in the last year, so you are more up than I am, but when I was there it was pretty darn great... so much of the MacKenzie intentions are being brought back.

Ed Getka and others have seen it more recently also and may well comment.  In any case exciting things are happening north of the bridge...

TH

[Michael Dugger]

I can't comment on the golf course and renovation but when driving by the course I couldn't help but feel it is an absolutely amazing setting for a club.  

Everyone should venture north of San F. into Marin County and Mt. Tam at least once in their lifetime.

[ed_getka]

Mark,
  The membership has been very happy with the work Mike DeVries has done there, thus far. He started off doing one hole, #5 par 3 I believe. The members were very enthusiastic with the result and Mike has been doing a few holes a year since then. Mike has been pretty faithfully restoring the greens and surrounds, and in selected places out in the fairway, such as #1, moving the bunkering to account for today's technology and restoring Mackenzie's "intent".
   The joining is a testament to Mike and Dave Sexton (the super) really knowing their stuff. If you are out in the summer this year, try and come out when Mike is out on the course.
   As Mike has gone along the membership has been more receptive to getting rid of more trees, which has been an added plus.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Thanks for your replies.  I thought the course was transformed by the amendments and the condition after a period of prolonged rain was amazingly good.

[Lou_Duran]

Mark,

I played the course early last spring and simply loved it.  As I recall, Mike's work was around 60% complete at that time.  While my back acted-up on me and I couldn't get to the ball nor put much behind it, I had a great time hitting half-shots and some run-ups.

Meadow is a wonderful member's course.  It is probably easier than Pasatiempo, but I think that I like it better.  The greens and surrounds are fantastic, though not as bold.  The bunkering that Mike has completed fits the course like a glove.

The only downers that I saw was the driving range, which apparently was added after the course was built, and some routing problems which it may have caused on the back side.  

Once Mike fininshes all his work, I hope that it will receive the attention that it deserves.  Is a "top 100"?  I am not sure, but I sure look forward to playing it again some day.    

[THuckaby2]

You like Meadow Club better than Pasa, Lou?  That's a tall statement, and really great testimony to the work DeVries is doing.  Not many would have made that claim before, that's for sure - Meadow is a fine course but at least I think, and most others I've talked to or read have thought, that it wasn't in a league with Pasa.  But I sure as heck trust your judgment and man that makes me want to see Meadow again and soon!

TH

[ed_getka]

Its a stretch to put Meadow in the same company as Pasatiempo. MC seems to be a very nice member's club, and Mike's work on the greens has certainly elevated the quality of the course. The setting is beautiful on the flanks of Mt Tam.
   Course preferences are totally subjective of course, so I accept Lou's opinion as being valid.

[Lou_Duran]

Guys,

I think that I've said here before that I am not as big of a fan of Pasatiempo as many of you.  I find that the up and down nature of several parts of the course are in violation of the Good Doctor's published principles; the routing a bit crowded; the greens probably too severe for my taste; and in need of some tree, drainage, and landscaping work.

I think that Pasa is a much more difficult course, but I will withold judgement on which is better until I play Meadow again when I am able to make a pass at the ball and after Mike completes his work.  If I am allowed to make a minor distinction, just because I may like Meadow better, does not mean that I think it is a better course or that I would rank it higher.  In my eye, the course just fits real well, and despite feeling poorly, I came away with a very good impression.

Ed,

This is not brain surgery- it is all subjective.  My opinions are valid to me at least, and they are not necessarily set in stone.  Personally, I can't understand how people can get so lathered-up about the lists and rankings.  Until someone comes up with a standardized, validated test of taste, we should all just cool our jets and take them for what they are- opinions or averaged aggregate preferences.

[THuckaby2]

Gotcha, Lou.  I guess stretching this to a very greater extreme, it's like me saying I like Wild Horse better than Shinnecock Hills, which I do.  But no way do I say WH is a "better" course - it's just more fun for me, that's all.  So I gather that's your take on Meadow v. Pasa, to a lot less of an extreme extent?

I can buy that.  Someone once said Olympic Club as it was before was more work than fun, some invalid never taking a stand idiot, and perhaps Pasa can be that was also at times.  I am here to say it does grow on you though, and the up and down nature becomes a positive over time...

Meadow always was a damn fun golf course and a great place.  What I'm hearing here is more confirmation that it REALLY is such now...

TH

[Lou_Duran]

Huck,

I think you got it, though I don't understand how you can like WH over Shinny (which I've never played).  Another example, quite a few people believe that Spyglass is a better course than PB, but do you know anyone who likes it better?

The following come from Mr. Rowlinson:

#2


#3


#4


#9


#10


#14

[THuckaby2]

Great pics!

Lou, plain and simple:  Shinnecock is too much golf course for me, too tough.  A great man said while we were playing "all it requires is perfect shots."  I don't have any of those, and I prefer a chance at success to masochism.  That being said, it remains a GREAT golf course, one I'd put in the world's top 10 without a doubt.  Just for me, well... I like Wild Horse better.  I like Rustic Canyon better.  There are probably at least 100 courses I like better.  But that's based on my likes and preferences, not the greatness of the courses in a pure measure.

TH

ps - I do know people who prefer Spyglass to Pebble... they are usually either redanman (who just doesn't like PB), or other low-handicappers who like a test more than they are inspired by beauty or history.  Thankfully they remain a pretty small minority.

[ed_getka]

Lou,
  I'm as far way from being into rankings as anyone on this site. I was just teasing and you will be hard pressed to get me lathered up about too many things. Certainly not as lathered up as you and David M. got on your trip.
    How would you compare SFGC to Meadow? Different architects I know, but what is your personal preference (notice how I didn't use the word "ranking" )

[SPDB]

Are the bunkers as puffy in real life as they appear in these pictures?

[Bill_McBride]

All I can say is those trees are a lot tighter on #9 and #10 than I remember when I caddied there in the late 50's and early '60's!  #9 is one terrific par 4, maybe 425, but I sure don't remember that tree-lined fairway, especially down the left side.  Maybe all my players were slicers!

[Lou_Duran]

Bill,

The left side of #9, as I recall, is fairly wide, but the trees block the way to the green with anything but a very short iron.  The shot to hit is to the right center of the fairway, with a mid to short iron approach to a green that is elevated (my back was so gimpy that I wasn't able to hit the right shots, and on top of that, I lost my scorecard, notes, caddy sack, and Ocean Course windshirt either in the restaurant or the parking lot at the club).  #10 is very tight, and the driving range to the left protected by a net detracts from the hole.  Was the range there when you caddied?  Overall, I think that Pasatiempo feels much more overcrowded with trees.

Ed,

My comments about people getting lathered-up about ratings was made in general and had nothing to do with you.  I've always sensed that you keep your blood pressure well under control and golf in its proper context.

In as far as Dr. Moriarty and me, we get along despite some substantive differences in our outlook on politics, life, and golf.  I have a high regard for his intellect, many of his intentions, and some of his ideas on golf.  I do subscribe to Tom Paul's "golf is a big world" perspective, and though I will be packing during my visit to LaLa Land for the KPIII, I look forward with great anticipation to seeing him and the rest of the guys.

Re: SFGC, it is in a very, very small class, in my opinion, which Meadow or Pasatiempo can't touch.  While I like the whole thing about the Olympic Club better, the SFGC course may be a notch higher in my book (at least pre-tree trimming at Lake, which is one of my favorite courses).  I even liked the post-Tillie holes on the back, disagreeing somewhat with the two Right Coast lefties.  I am also a huge fan of Sandy Tatum, who may be one of the world's most fortunate men- a member at SFGC AND CPC, and who knows where else.

Sean,

The renovated bunkers are roughed edged as can be seen on the second picture.  I am not sure that I would characterize them as fluffy (which I've heard used more to describe the looseness of the sand).  Some of the Pebble Beach bunkers have a similar look.

Huck,

You really know someone who likes Spyglass more than Pebble?  Is the person blind?  
 

[THuckaby2]

Lou:

Well, you know one also.  He goes by redanman.

And there are others as well, believe me - the "test of golf is all that matters" types.  Spyglass is a tougher course, so end of story.

You wanna hear something else interesting?  Ask shivas to which is the better course between Pebble and Pasatiempo.

 

[Mark_Rowlinson]

#9 is completely different now.  Those pics were take in January 2003.  The hill on the left is now riddled with bunkers, the tee moved back to make it about 450 yards.  True, it's still awfully narrow.

[ed_getka]

Lou,
   I look forward to seeing you at KPIII. Hopefully we'll have a chance to golf together. Afterwards, I look forward to talking politics with you. You have some interesting ideas from what I gather from your other posts. See you next month.

  Sean,
   I don't think I would call the bunker work "puffy". I don't care much for the edgework, as I don't think its adds much to the bunkers, but I think Mike is trying to get a throwback look. I know Mike KNOWS how to do bunkering, as evidenced by Kingsley Club. I personally think Meadow Club would be even better as a renovation or redesign by Mike, but I think he's doing a very good job restoring MC.

[T_MacWood]

The course has a very interesting look...I'm glad the architects were not tempted to recreate the typical MacKenzie bunkering...the bunkering at the Meadow Club is/was unique. From what I have read many of the holes at Meadow were based on famous golf holes...does anyone know anything about that?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom,

Hopefully Mike DeVries will pop in here soon with some comments. In the meantime...

I did a bit of work on Meadow restoration with Mike in his office last year and was able to go through a lot of the historical info. on the course. I'll say, Mackenzie intended to mimic many characteristics of the Old Course at Meadow Club. I believe it's the par 3 5th, for one, that is bascially a rendition of Eden.

Meadow was very, very wide open in the early years, which accounts for its name. The course was laid out over a wide open meadow. My, how things have changed!

The club has been a tad adverse to tree removal thus far. But, it seems Mike's work to date has resulted in a trust in him. So hopefully even more ambitious restorative-based work will be undertaken in the near future, including some much needed tree removal.

I think restoring "the meadow" is absolutely essential to a restoration of this golf course.

[RJ_Daley]

All I can say is the next time Mike D. visits, he ought to bring the Poulan bros., from the U.P. to help him remodel...

[Jeff_Mingay]

I should also add, Mike's bunker restoration at Meadow is truly restoration. It amazed me how exact the style of the bunker edges Mike has done are to the originals seen in historic photos. Really amazing.

[RJ_Daley]

Jeff, in the pictures provided, one can see that there are a crap load of conifers.  They don't appear to be native to the surrounding area.  Like all too many clubs, it looks like the members went on a conifer planting binge in the 50s-60s and at the time the little buggers were planted as 2ft high shrubs.  Now, they have a completely miserable set of hemmed in coniferous corridors that don't open up angles and lines of play as I'm sure it was intended.  

Why can't they just look about them at the surrounding native tree stock and then realise that what they have wasn't even intended by mother nature?  

zzzzclickthis

[Jeff_Mingay]

Great link, Dick!

You've bascially summed up the tree situation at Meadow (and so many other great old courses, of course). One of the differences at Meadow though is, a lot of those new trees between holes are giant Redwoods!

I've had dreams about the restored meadow...