[JakaB]

What an interesting pair of courses that require carts and are in somebody's top 100...TPC at Sawgrass and Kapalula.  I wonder how many raters change the preconceived notions they had from years of watching on TV by playing the course.   They might as well rate those two from a couch at home...I'm not making a point..I just thought it was a funny coincidence.

btw...Kapalula has never made the Whitten/Huckaby list.

[THuckaby2]

 

Oh would that I had co-responsibility for said list.  It would make for conversation, that's for sure.

And KP isn't on it?  Damn, I thought it was - didn't check - my bad.  Oh well!

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

Carts are not required at Kapalua-Plantation nor at TPC @Sawgrass.  Caddies can be reserved at Kapalua and Kangaroo Kaddies can be rented at Sawgrass.

From testimony of others here, Kapalua is still a difficult walk and that rides between several holes are prudent.

[THuckaby2]

Scott:

Carts sure as hell were required the day I was there (last summer).  I asked and they specifically told me so.  There also were no caddies anywhere to be seen.  Interesting they would treat me differently than others... I must have a look to me!

Of course I have ZERO regrets riding, after seeing the course - in fact I ought to have bought the pro something for saving me from myself!

 

[Scott_Burroughs]

Tom,

Caddies at Kapalua have to be reserved well in advance (the guy at Kapalua just told me).  Carts are required for walk-ups, etc.

[Scott_Burroughs]

JakaB's point is well-taken though.  Once Golf Digest started adding the Walking Bonus to their ratings criteria, most of the top courses from the rankings that required carts made walking and option, even though few may ever use it.

It's not a Top 100 course, but Lost Canyons allows walking, but I'd be surprised if anyone has ever actually done it.

Royal New Kent and Stonehouse in Virginia are the same way.  I'm probably one of a handful of 'lunatics' to have walked either one.  Maybe the only to have walked both.  

[THuckaby2]

Scott:

I was far from a walk-up.  I reserved this WAY in advance, did it as a Golf Digest rating trip.  The availability of caddies was never mentioned - not that I likely would have taken one, man I'd have felt  way too much Catholic guilt forcing anyone to carry for me on those hills - but also, none were visible anywhere the day I was there.  Every group was in carts.  So while I do believe such could be arranged, well... you'd think they would have mentioned such to me.  I guess my odd look extends to odd telephone manner and written word!

TH

[JakaB]

Huck,

Catholics never feel guilt over the trek of a caddie as long as once they fall the third time you carry the bag to the top of the next hill.

[THuckaby2]

Scott - Lost Canyons is kid's stuff compared to Kapalua.  Heck, I saw a few walkers there.  Thought they were lunatics, but they did exist.  

I still want to see the day you come back out here and walk Pasadera CC - that remains the great divider.  Join Gib and Goodale in this, and you receive forever the MILITANT WALKER designation.  Just don't mind me if I'm plastered by the time you catch up to me - I'll have time for at least 6 drinks waiting for you to finish.

 

[THuckaby2]

Huck,

Catholics never feel guilt over the trek of a caddie as long as once they fall the third time you carry the bag to the top of the next hill.

ANOTHER CLASSIC!  You are on a roll today, my friend.  Methinks at the course in question my guilt would start on about the 6th hole... where I would have to take the bag....

 

[Scott_Burroughs]

Tom,

It's one of those things they don't ask on purpose.  Like the fact that if you get your house re-appraised for a value high enough so that the difference + your current equity is higher than 20% of the original cost of your house, you can have your PMI dropped.  But your bank is not going to tell you that.  That's free money to the bank they'd lose.

It's probably more trouble than it's worth to them and one of those things you have to know about on your own.

At Pebble they will never mention that walking and carrying is an option, as they will make more money off a cart or caddie.


At Kapalua, me being an occasional rebel walker, I'm intrigued.  If my wife wanted to come along, we ride (actually, she drives, I walk the holes and ride between).

[THuckaby2]

OK Scott, whatever you say.  As I say, I have no doubt they can dig up a caddie for those crazy enough to want one there - it is a first-class place.  I'm just here to tell you that I sure as hell saw none,  and I asked afterward if such existed (just in a conversation re walking there, as a curiousity) and they said none were available.  Obviously we are getting different messages!  But then again, I obviously don't have the inside knowledge and contacts that you do.

 

And just how this COSTS them money remains curious to me... caddie is gonna make both him and them more money than cart would, by far.... and given my round was free, you'd think they'd want to sell me SOMETHING.... interesting.

I dare you to walk Kapalua, btw.  No rides period. Then report back about what a joyous experience it was.  If you do so, then you rise to the absolute top of the heap, becoming FIVE STAR GENERALISSIMO MILITANT WALKER.

Is it worth it to you?  I am intrigued to find out...

 

[Scott_Burroughs]

I didn't say it would cost them money, I said it was probably just more trouble than it's worth.  I was talking to a pro who told me the caddies were an option.  I also remember it on their web site once, but it's not there, now.

The aerial of Pasadera shows no real long distances between holes, but I presume it's very hilly:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3721

Royal New Kent has 13 miles of carts paths and the average course is normally about a 5 mile walk.  However, walking cuts down on that 13 miles quite a bit by going straight down the middle of holes instead of around.  Still was probably 8-9 miles.

[THuckaby2]

Scott, I do have fun with you.    Re Kapalua, hell yes it's more trouble for them than it's worth... but you made this about money, and well, if that's what it was about, they'd make it not such a bother.

Anyway, doesn't matter, I'm just not in the mood to punt today.  

To say Pasadera is "hilly" is like saying I "post every so often on golfclubatlas.com's discussion group" - a bit of an understatement in each case.  

Upon reflection though, I guess it's not THAT bad - it's just that it has at least three walks that would be SO stupid to even try, it trumps the fact that the rest of the course isn't all that bad.  In the end, Kapalua will be a better test for your ranking as GENERALISSIMO.  Remember, no rides period, and you must report back how wonderful the experience was.  In fact I want a phone call on the sixth tee.  I'll give you my number, you can make it collect.  

Some course are just made to be done in a cart, and it will always be foolish to me to:

a) walk them anyway, out of spite or in attempt to prove some point to someone;
b) refuse to play them, biting off one's nose to spite one's face.

But for you militant walkers who treat golf this way, well... God love ya and more power to you!  Shivas Irons remains wrong:  golf is about the walk AND the shots, and can exist without the former.  It ain't perfect, but it still can be damn fun, like it is at Kapalua.

TH

[ChasLawler]

Carts are not required at Kapalua-Plantation nor at TPC @Sawgrass.  Caddies can be reserved at Kapalua and Kangaroo Kaddies can be rented at Sawgrass.

Less than one year ago,  When I inquired one week prior to arriving at TPC @ Sawgrass, I was told that carts were mandatory. I then asked if they could have caddies available, and I was told "no", at which time I asked if I could pay for the cart, but carry my bag....again - "no".

I went through the same routine a week later with the guy behind the desk in the Pro Shop right before I went off.

Maybe I should have been more specific - as I thought my message was pretty clear - but no one ever mentioned anything to me about a kangaroo kaddie.

[THuckaby2]

Junah - you weren't asking correctly and didn't have the inside info that Mr. Burroughs has.  No hassles, obviously I didn't either at Kapalua.  What are peons like us to do?

 

Just what is a Kangaroo Kaddie, also - one of those electronic moving pull carts?

Those are great... never have used one, want to some day.

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

Huck and Rannulph,

I said it recently, and I'll say it again, I vowed to do more thorough research before I post.  The pro at Kapalua said caddies were available if reserved ahead of time (and I saw it their web site in the past), also my info from TPC came directly from their web site:

http://www.playatpc.com/daily/sawgrass/information.html

Look at the last item under "Policies and Services" and I know that this has been listed this way for several years when I was thinking of going to the 2002 Gator Bowl, I checked it out.

In fact, if you look at the 2nd item, "Caddy: Yes, pre-approved caddy allowed" is another way to walk.

It just seems as if they purposefully don't mention these options in person unless you mention them specifically first.  Either that or some assistant pros or clerks don't know all the rules, especially ones that people rarely encounter.  I've encountered that before, too.

[ChasLawler]

I never doubted you Scott, I had seen the same thing on the TPC website - I'm just passing on what I was told.

I'd hope that if I had really pressed the issue at Sawgrass, they would have changed their position. Unfortunately, I'm one of those guys who just really doesn't have that in me.

It just seems as if they purposefully don't mention these options in person unless you mention them specifically first.  Either that or some assistant pros or clerks don't know all the rules, especially ones that people rarely encounter.  I've encountered that before, too.

I agree and I think generally it's a combination of all that. As for TPC @ Sawgrass - it's just kind of sickening that for $300+ in March (plus the $200 mandatory hotel tab) those guys aren't bending over backwards to let people do whatever the hell they want out there.

[THuckaby2]

Scott:

I have nothing to research - all I've done here is report what I was told and what I saw at Kapalua.  If this is important enough to you to research, then that is just great - the world of knowledge here is just that much richer.  Just do remember that there also is a worth to real-world experience, no matter what websites say, or one is told.  Or is something you're told on the telephone MORE valuable than what I was told, and saw in person?

 

In any case, I stand ready for that phone call from the 6th tee at Kapalua.  Better start training NOW.

TH

[Brian_Gracely]

I'm curious why this thread was started by someone that belongs to a proclaimed "club that doesn't give a sh*t about raters or their ranking of the club"?  Is there concern about the existing courses and their rankings, or was the original question strictly concerned about the rankings of new courses?  

I wonder what the discussions look like on MovieWatcher.com or RestaurantDiner.com or HotelVistor.com?  

[HamiltonBHearst]

Why does it matter who started the thread?  The thread asks what is the proper method to rate the courses and I fail to see why hostility to Mr. Mucci answers this question.  

It is comical how all the "raters" take themselves so seriously and act as if they are doing such a noble service.  Imagine if people had to rely on a food "rater" to tell them what was good rather than their own taste buds.  

[Brian_Gracely]

Hamilton,

You're right, it was a complete bash of Mr.Mucci.  We don't have enough threads about rankings and the merits of raters in the group, and asking for a more scientific approach to something which is completely an individual's opinion is probably the only thing he was looking to accomplish by bringing this up.

Can't wait for the threads about "do we have an equal balance of raters that hit draws and fades?", "should all raters have to wear bright orange hats so they are easy to identify?" and "golfers are from Mars and raters are from Venus"....  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brian,

I'm curious why this thread was started by someone that belongs to a proclaimed "club that doesn't give a sh*t about raters or their ranking of the club"?  

Why do you conveniently leave out the fact that I also belong to clubs that care a great deal about raters and the ranking of the club ?

Or, would that FACT dissolve your theories ?

Is there concern about the existing courses and their rankings, or was the original question strictly concerned about the rankings of new courses?  

If you'd have read my posts with any degree of comprehension, you might have discovered that it's neither.

I wonder what the discussions look like on MovieWatcher.com or RestaurantDiner.com or HotelVistor.com?  

[Brian_Gracely]

Brian,

Why do you conveniently leave out the fact that I also belong to clubs that care a great deal about raters and the ranking of the club ?

Or, would that FACT dissolve your theories ?

<previous reply removed>

Why anyone bothers to respond to your threads is now beyond me.  They all begin with questions that you really don't want to hear an opposing viewpoint, and they all end with "you obviously can't comprehend my responses".  

Enjoy your time with those who care and those that don't...

[TEPaul]

Patrick said on post #17;

"TEPaul & A Clayman,
You're sooooo naive.
Do you really think that raters are going to stick around and walk a golf course after they've played it."

Patrick:

I haven't been on this thread for a while but just a point of order here, if you please, from page #1. Before you posted that remark of yours above did you bother reading my post #13---you dumb dufous brained klutz? In case you're unaware of it the number 13 comes before the number 17 so why did you say such a thing and ask such an unnecessary question? You owe me an apology for calling me 'soooo naive' and also asking me such a stupid question. Matter or fact you don't just owe me an apology I demand it in the next five minutes or you'll go to your room without dinner, you'll owe me 1000 pushups or a paper spelling out neatly in 1000 individualized lines "I promise to read" and your allowance will be revoked for the next nine weeks!!!

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