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Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Black Diamond Ranch
« on: January 31, 2004, 06:29:49 PM »
Does anyone have any information on this club?  I am sitting here watching a local television show, where black diamond has payed to be spotlighted.  

It boasts 45 holes of golf in Florida, all of which I believe were designed by Fazio.  However, it wasn't until they said that the place was in Florida, that I knew where it was, the elevation seemed significant at times, especially on their quarry course.  I even saw a Stonewall member boasting about the place.

I check out the website and found this quote about their "Ranch" course  "The 18-hole Ranch Course, completed in 1997, is reminiscent of Pine Valley with its rolling fairways
and dramatic elevation changes of over 100 feet".  That made for a good laugh ;)

But seriously, the Quarry course did look pretty cool for a Florida course, take a look at this hole http://www.blackdiamondranch.com/page/2-43.htm?hole=15&course_id=4  it reminded me of one of the quarry holes at the new cricket club course.

Jason Mandel
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

CharlieM

Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2004, 08:04:41 PM »
Surrounding environments aside these two holes always reminded me of one another even though one is a 5 and the other a 4. Can anyone comment who has played them both??

CM




Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2004, 10:23:46 PM »
Charlie,

My first impression was that first hole schematic looks a lot like #12 at Crosswater in Oregon.  But, I cheated, and the other thread I started is the result.   8)

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2004, 10:28:15 PM »
I have received some info from the club. They have a deal where you can go out to check out the club and play the golf course, but you have to bring the spouse. I don't know how ironclad the spouse part is.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Bill Weber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2004, 05:55:34 AM »
Just as WWPB claims to be comparable to Pine Valley it is just as ludicrous to claim The Ranch is as well. However the Quarry and Ranch will hold up under some pretty tough scrutiny as to layout, playability, fun, and a great place to live, if you like being in the middle of nowhere but love golf  ;D.
I've mentioned the topography of this area a few times on this site and you just have to see it to believe you are in Florida.
A member is required to play with non members and I would be happy to set it up for those wanting to play. Just IM me with your schedule and e-mail address.
Green fees are $159.00 first 18 and cart fees only second 18.
I have been told the offer to stay and play has been recinded but things change. Maybe it's back on the table.
The real estate sales office can set up a visit as well but the fees remain the same.
This area has some pretty fair public courses as well and a weeks trip to hit them all would be memorable.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2004, 06:02:50 AM by w weber »

A_Clay_Man

Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2004, 10:30:09 AM »
I called there last week and couldn't get out. I assume it is still the toughest tee time in Central Fl. to get? (Quarry)
Plus, they close it on Mondays? Or switch the courses that close every week?

Real estate prices are now high enough, where my friend's project could happen. He bought a quarry (17 ac.)in Floral city and has created nine one shot holes. The site is vey cool and very secluded. His plan is somewhere along the lines of a private retreat, for a group of golfers, who want to golf the area, every year. But don't want the headaches associated with owning another home. His saving grace is that he is no hurry and not in it for the money.

Final shaping on a few greens, is all that is needed on the construction side. And Ed is holding out for a "real" pump before installing the irrigation. There are two homesites alotted, in a county which is very protective of any over-growth in population.

Anyone who wants to learn more, should IM or email me.

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2004, 03:57:14 PM »
Played 36 holes at the Quarry on Sunday, so I have several comments.  For starters, although all of the press goes to 13 - 17, the stretch of golf from 8 - 18 is as good any 11 hole stretch as I have played anywhere.  1-7 are good holes but clearly they are the reason this course is in the bottom 50 of the top 100 in the US (Not exactly a criticism, given that the US boasts 18,000 courses) and not the top 25 in the world.  From 8 on, the course needs adjectives like Awesome, Spectacular, Jaw Dropping, etc.

The quarry holes are everything that Bay Harbor should be and isn't.  The vistas are so special that Fazio does not get nearly enough credit for the strategy he incorporated into the playing of these holes.  14-16 are anything that a GCA golfer could ask for in terms of multple lines of approach, different strategic angles, risk/reward shots, etc.

I was surprised that Golf Digest called 13-17 at BDR the best 5-hole stretch in the US (Especially given how good 13-17 at CPC is).  After playing it, I am not sure they are incorrect.  

As a members course goes, this is right up there with CPC.  You could play it every day and never be bored or unhappy.  It has all the challenge you want and yet affords bail outs and forgiveness for safe play.  

Last thought - I played WWPB the right afterwards and it was no contest.  If I had 10 rounds, I would play 7 at BDR, 2 at WWPB and 1 at WWRO.

As a final note, the company was fantastic.  Thank you!!
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2004, 04:33:52 PM »
Dave, I just missed you by a week. I played 36 at BDR last Sunday with TI. We played the Highlands and back nine of the Ranch followed by the Quarry.

What a wonderful complex! In addition to 45 great holes of golf the club features an expansive practice range, short game area and practice holes. The club is rather remote (1 hour+ from Tampa) but well worth the trip. The Director of Golf explained that the previous policy of rquiring a member in every group had been changed. A limited amount of unaccompanied play is permitted at a higher rate ($225+) than the accompanied rate ($160 for 36 holes)

We played with a member who is on the Golf Digest Panel. He was an outstanding host and provided us with a detailed review of all 45 holes. (We rode the front nine of the Ranch).


Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2004, 04:57:27 PM »
Charlie -

I have played both and I agree they are similar, but I never thought they played the same. #4 at SC is a reachable par 5 and you come into that green with a longer club. Also, there are mounds front and right that are not on #15 BDQ. 15 BDQ is a short four that leaves you with an SW for your approach.
Mr Hurricane

CharlieM

Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2004, 12:26:16 AM »
Thanks Mr. Hurricane. I have always felt that they looked similar, and realized that the difference in par probably made them play differently. Would this be safe to say its cookie cutter in a way?

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2004, 08:38:28 AM »
I am sure a lot of people would say "cookie cutter", but I don't know if I would go that far. AND if it is "cookie cutter", pass me an oatmeal raisin please.
Mr Hurricane

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Black Diamond Ranch
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2004, 08:54:26 AM »
Charlie,

I do not think that they are cookie cutter at all.  #4 at Shadow Creek is a 540-yard par 5.  The tee shot is slightly elevated but there really is only one line to play the shot.  An aggressive play leaves a very risky long iron shot over water to a green that appears more peninsulas than it plays.  For almost everyone it is a 3-shot hole and one with a lot of beauty but not a ton of strategy.  If you wanted a similar hole, I might have chosen 18 at Old Waverly, 18 at Oak Pointe or 18 at about 5,000 other courses that tried to duplicate 18 at Pebble beach without an ocean.

#15 at Black Diamond is a natural hole like #18 at Pebble (The topography created the design, not earth moving).  In addition, it is one of the best examples of Fazio adding strategic elements that I have seen in his earlier work.  The tee shot is extremely elevated and offers two distinct options (The hole has a split fairway).  To go for the lower fairway puts the water in play and is fairly risky.  The reward is a straight view at the green with a 9-iron - SW depending on how far you hit the ball.  The top fairway is extremely wide and very forgiving.  Even a poorly hit slice will roll off the slope in the weeds and end up in a fairly decent lie.  The penalty for playing safe is that you have a blind shot with 40' of elevation into a green fronted by water and backed by bunkering and a very tough collection area.  Blind shots into sunken greens are a tough equation although all trouble was taken out of play off the tee.

I tried both shots and loved the hole.  The only similarity I see between the two is water on the left.  
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04