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James Edwards

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Double Hazards
« on: January 27, 2004, 10:25:20 AM »
12th at ANGC is one, of many examples across the globe, which has two hazards to carry - a water hazard and a bunker hazard.  

An aesthetic - maybe?
A psychological element - could be?
A chance of dry ground? (helping the golfer) - possibly?
Signature?  might be?

I've always been interested to know what the Pro's and Con's are of having double hazards to carry.  

More examples and why you believe they benefit or detract.

@EDI__ADI

A_Clay_Man

Re:Double Hazards
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2004, 10:44:12 AM »
The example you site, #12 @ANGC, has to be the best use of this double hazard because it is centerline with room on each side.

 I recently saw the antithesis. An Island green, with almost perfect rectangular bunkers completely surrounding the almost square green. I had to laugh. Not to be confused with a very similar effect on the 16th at the El Campeon. Island like green, surrounded with bunkers on the waters edge.  

James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Double Hazards
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2004, 11:08:07 AM »
Adam,

True of the centre line.

Does this mean that the centre bunker on this example, is designed to protect the centre part of the green and the water to protect the edges of the green?

If so, this has design merit IMO.

But too frequently, the use of double hazards, do not have this in their favour. and both hazards are trying to protect the same shot, which overpowers the hole somewhat.

@EDI__ADI

Lou_Duran

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Re:Double Hazards
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2004, 11:09:23 AM »
These don't bother me at all as one shot can overcome both.  Introducing trees partially blocking the green or line to the green would be a problem to me.  What I really dislike is the combination of sand or upslopes blocked by trees, which all but takes away the chance of hitting a great recovery shot.

James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Double Hazards
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2004, 11:13:47 AM »
Lou, I agree with the good shot overcoming both hazards scenario.

But are they both necessary?  

In the case at ANGC, I can see the merit of having both hazards, but what if they are protecting a large green from right to left and it's a water hazard followed by a wall of sand?  Is this overpowering the design for design sake or does it have some merit?
@EDI__ADI

A_Clay_Man

Re:Double Hazards
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2004, 11:16:13 AM »
JJ. I wish I knew the 12th better and from a less televised reality, but, it would appear that the buker protects the narrowest part of the green. Which if true, isn't really there to protect anything. I would hope it is there to be challenged and used effectivevly by a narrow miss. i.e. throwing your ball slightly one way or the other while providing some form of momentum stoping slope. But I can only dream about what it really looks like in three dimensions. Is there slope to the front bunk?

I have seen several other examples where sand borders the water hazard. When it looks like a beach or a levy, it doesn't bother me as much as when it looks like a containment bunker.

James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Double Hazards
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2004, 11:24:31 AM »
By slope, do you mean from the lip on to the green?  If so, there is no slope on to the green.  The green surface at the point is pretty much flat leading into the bunker, but when I was there last, I paced 7 steps for the green which we all agree (I hope) is not a great deal of room.

I suppose, my point is, less is more in more cases!

if you photomontage a bunker into the left hand side of the 18th at Sawgrass, what would this suddenly do to the hole?  Does it make it easier?  I think it does both visually and playability.
@EDI__ADI