Hardest course you have played

[TEPaul]

Graham:

This is sort of hard for me to believe but late last summer a friend of mine from the States teamed up against a wonderful Muirfield member and his partner for one of those great 36 hole alternate shot matches with the unbelievable lunch and drinks in between. Neither me nor my friend from the States who's probably a 6-9 handicapper had been to Muirfield before but in the morning match we shot a 73. That's something else as far as I'm concerned. My friend from the States sort of putted the lights out though. The afternoon round was a different story (we both had to be half in the bag). We had a four up lead with five holes to play and both of us could sort of see it coming! Yep, as hard as we were trying we lost the last five holes and the entire day's match with it!    

[Mike Benham]

Hardest course I ever played was Cypress in the mythical battle-of-the-strategic-philosophies death match against Moriarity in a seven club wind.  All square going into 16.  Wind directly into us, maybe quartering a bit from the right.  Moriarity does what everyone reading this thinks he did, but which I cannot muster the strength to type on here (he needed a 3 iron just do hit that shot which cannot be mentioned).  I whip out driver and aim out into the Pacific about 20 feet right of the edge of terra firma, and go right at the flag, as any real man or 14 year old 6 foot Hawaiian girl would.  .  I stiff it and make 2.  Moriarity, now playing directly into the wind smashes a 7 iron for his second shot to the par 3, which hits the green and all the wind-caused backspin makes it suck back almost to his feet,serving him right.   Shivas 1 up.

On 17, he lays up, but sensing the kill, I aim right at the green, nail it, and the ball lands on the green, but rolled to the back fringe.  Dave makes 4 but I 2 putt for 3 for a 1 up win.  Ah, what a day!  

Wouldn't that be 2 and 1?  

Or in this mythical match, CPC is only 17 holes and DM got a stroke on the 17th ...

[Jeff_Mingay]

So, Tom, you're expanding on my previous post. There are:

1. Stupidly difficult golf courses;
2. Challenging golf courses that may be considered quite difficult under certain conditions; and,
3. Golf courses you play poorly at because you're "half in the bag".

I understand, trust me  

[Jim Franklin]

Oakmont is toughest. They SLOW the greens down for tournament play.

[JakaB]

I would say that Oakmont got three to four shots easier for a 6 to 12 handicapper with all the tree removal....how stupid is that...to say..not to do.   Please note that most 6 to 12 handicappers will shoot at least 10 strokes over their handicap at Oakmont.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Might be Ko'olau before it was softened.  Was 76.4/162 7310 from tips (74.4/158 6797 from where I played), now supposedly 'gentle' at 75.7/152.

Kiawah-Ocean is tough, but I'm not stupid to play it from all the way back.   Would be toughest, though.

[David_Madison]

Oakmont was by far the hardest fair course I've played. I've never played a course where the ball moves so much east/west on the fairways. You can hit a drive that lands well into a fairway and it kicks and rolls into the deep rough. Not only do you have to land your drives in the fairways, but they have to be shaped the right way and land in the correct parts to stay. I played Oakmont twice right before the Amateur this summer, and it was set up in Open shape. Brutal but fun. If I remember correctly, the scoring average for the stroke play qualifying to get into match play was just over 79. And during match play, lots of holes were won with bogeys and even doubles.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Hardest course to score on I ever played was Stone Harbor from the tips the year it opened.

Tom,

No way I was going back to The Black tees at Stone Harbor. Even at The Blue tees, Stone Harbor was a close second to WF West. How many balls did I lose at Stone Harbor?

If you miss on the short side at WFW, up and down is almost impossible as the greens often concave away from the bunkers. Those greens demand precise shots more than any other course IMHO.

[JNC Lyon]

This is a tie between The Ocean Course (no explanation) and Oak Hill East before the PGA. The rough was so thick that you might lose a ball in it after moving it three feet! That combined with those greens makes for one tough course!

[bstark]

   The Ocean Course followed by Shinnecock. Both play long, usually windy and penal......

[TEPaul]

As I vaguely recall after probably the most recent US Open at Baltusrol the club invited a number of very fine amateur players to play the course with the same Open set-up and my recollection (vague) is not a single one of them managed to break 80!

[Jeff_Perryman]

I'd have to say Sugarloaf Golf Club in Maine.  151 Slope from the back tees and more doglegs than an Iraqi barbecue.  It's also incredibly scenic.

[G_Tiska]

Winged Foot West..before trees removed

[Wayne Freeman]

I'm hoping to play Oakmont next fall and haven't played at Kiawah, but having played 21 U.S. Open courses and 46 on the Golf Digest list, I'd have to say that the toughest for me (3 hcp.) were (not in this order)  Winged Foot, Spyglass, and Bethpage- all from the tips.  It will be interesting to see if Torrey Pines at close to 7600 yards with narrow fairways and long rough moves into that grouping-  I think it's all you need from the regular tees!.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I agree about Stone Harbor being among the hardest.  It also the worst high profile golf course I have ever played. I missed the cut in a tournament and drove back to NY trying to figure out how so many good shots could end being penalized.  On the 4th or 5th , a really long narrow elevated par 3 with a 75 to 90 yard long green, I landed 5ft fron the hole and spun the ball back over 100ft! I have yet to hear one positive comment on the course.  Under tournament conditions, Moonah Links could be set up as the hardest course.  I am certain that it was not set up very hard for the Australian Open this year.  Every hole has a couple of crazy pins and there inumerable hazards that great players will find.  Spyglass makes Pebble seem like a walk in the park.

[Chris Perry]

If you're talking about topography and hazards without the added difficulty of weather and course conditions, then for me I'd have to go with Eaglemont in Mount Vernon, Washington.

It's not even narrow by any means but if you don't keep your ball in play its simply gone. They don't even use the back tees for casual play anymore.

[Steve Lapper]

I am somewhat amazed by all the responses and the course left out.

 Surely(and I've played these), Oakmont, Medinah, Butler Nat'l.,  and Ko'olau, are very tough and difficult without any "element impairment"....i.e. wind, rain, temp, etc.

  I'm know the Shinnecock's, Bethpage Blacks, Kiawah OC, and Muirfield can be brutal with any appearance of wind, btw ....as can be Royal St. Georges as well.

 But can anyone who's played Carnoustie on any day (with or without the normal sideways rain and wind and with or without the Royal Marine rifle-firing symphony) tell me its not THE TOUGHEST.....Maybe I am crazy, but that course just goes brutal from one-to-eighteen with little, if any, let-up.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Chris,

         I had forgotten what a brute Eaglemont was when it first opened. Lots of of forced carries and wicked out of bounds. Still a tough course, they have spent a lot of money and effort making it more playable. It really had a bad reputation early on.

         

[THuckaby2]

But can anyone who's played Carnoustie on any day (with or without the normal sideways rain and wind and with or without the Royal Marine rifle-firing symphony) tell me its not THE TOUGHEST.....Maybe I am crazy, but that course just goes brutal from one-to-eighteen with little, if any, let-up.

Slapper - Carnoustie is a beast, without a doubt.  Give it the setup they had for the recent Open and it wins this without question... but... in ordinary every-day sane setup, well... it is very tough and the last 4 holes beat anything anywhere... hell from 12 on it's brutal.... but I'm gonna say Shinnecock is tougher.

And the toughest course I ever played was Portmarnock in 40-50mph wind.  I recall writing in my journal "this is the hardest course on earth."  End of story.  

TH

[TEPaul]

RMD;

I'm glad you mentioned Stone Harbor's par 3 #4. The hole certainly is not pretty---being a very manufactured looking raised up green with an extraordinary arcing tee arrangement which also serves as a high walkway to the green. However, I have to say despite the look of that green and that hole the diagonal the narrow green is set on--with the drop-offs front and back is one of the most interesting and functional diagonals I've ever seen in golf. Both distance and direction control as well as possibly shot shape has to be pretty much right on the money to get close to the flag or even on the green. You can hit what look like good shots on that hole and get in some trouble if you haven't thought things through well.

[Jack_Marr]

Headfort New in Kells, Co. Meath. Bloody hard. It has the highest standard scratch in Ireland, apparently, at 76.

Plenty of trees and water. If you miss, it's very hard to scramble for a par. My favourate parkland course in Ireland, though.

[Steve Lapper]

Tom,

    I've played Carnasty 4 times and Shinnecock 8. Trust me, Shinny is considerably less brutal that the "Nasty" in equal conditions. For starters, the "Nasty" has much more OB and hazards to contend with. Shinny has raw stategic difficulty, but little of the "just plain too tough" character that one finds everywhere at the Nasty.

[THuckaby2]

Slapper:

I've only played Carnoustie twice and Shinnecock once, so you know exactly four times as much about this as I do.  

So for my little 1/4 knowledge, well... I still found Shinnecock to be tougher, pretty much in exact disagreement with what you state here.  More hazards at Carnoustie?  I guess so... but damn there were far more ways to get down in 4 or 5 or more from 50 yards at Shinnecock...  To each his own....

TH

[Lou_Duran]

.... under normal conditions-

All in Texas: Horseshoe Bay- Ram Rock, Waterwood Natl., Austin CC.

If the weather is extreme and you're not playing well, nearly any course can be the "hardest".  I've watched Div. I players during the Kepler Invitational at OSU-Scarlet who were fighting tears as they struggled to break 90.

In terms of quality of the architecture, resistance to scoring is not a high criterion in my book.  On an outstanding course, shooting a high score because of poor play does not ruin the experience for me.  It actually spurs my desire to play and improve.  At a hard, badly designed course, my interest in the game is diminished.      

[THuckaby2]

I'm trying to discount setup and weather and keep such equal....

And oh yes, tough is not something I seek out either, that's for sure.  If it happens, fine, so long as that's not ALL there is... that's sure not the case at either of Carnoustie or Shinnecock...

TH