News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


TEPaul

The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« on: January 15, 2004, 11:59:39 AM »
C.B Macdonald has been called the "Father" of American golf architecture but perhaps Herbert C. Leeds might fairly be called the "Grandfather" of American golf architecture.

It seems fairly well assumed that Myopia just may have been the premier golf course of its early time in America preceding NGLA (commonly assumed to be the first completely top-flight course built in America) by 5-10 years. And from what most everyone seems to have said about Myopia from that time it seems somewhat confirmed.

A bunch of very early national tournaments were played at Myopia and both European and American top pros and amateurs generally praised Leeds's Myopia.

Leeds was one of those sportsman/amateur architects who took an inordinate amount of time perfecting Myopia and who did little else architecturally. It's said he carried around litle white chips and placed them where he observed good players' balls landing to install bunkering to increase the strategic impact of the golf course, something that appears to have been the general feeling about Myopia.

Even Crump apparently wished to copy a green concept at Myopia for one of his at PVGC (he wanted his #12 green to play something like Myopia's #16).

I'd also like to try to investigate closely whatever influence Myopia may have had on some early American architects, particularly a few from Yale University such as Behr and Langford (the historic Harvard/Yale rivalry has always remained very strong and I believe the Harvard team uses and used Myopia as their home course!). And it appears many of the architects and gentlemen architects of those early years were very familiar with Myopia and held it in very high regard, including apparently Macdonald, Crump, Wilson, Fownes etc. What about Ross and in his early Boston years?

And the wonderful thing about Myopia is apparently it's extremely well preserved from it's beginnings by Herbert C. Leeds.

Seeing how Myopia's place in early American golf and architecture seems fairly well assured could it be said that in some way Leeds may have been the "Grandfather" of American golf architecture, particularly since his excellent course was often assumed to be the premier course in America in those years preceding NGLA/PVGC/Merion/Oakmont which were all built in close time proximity but after Myopia?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 12:05:35 PM by TEPaul »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2004, 01:33:42 PM »
Perhaps the Godfather of American Golf was actually "Old Grand Dad".  IN trying to think about what the golfing society of 1895-1910 was like in America, we can only surmise that it was a very small club of very great enthusiasts.  They had only a few men that were out creating golf courses.  They were the Scotish and English immigrants like Bendelow, Foulis bros., C.B., Ross, Leeds, Willie Watson, Wm White, Willie Park Jr., Willie Dunn Jr., etc.  They all played with each other in the few tournaments that were held over the course of the year then.  They undoubtedly did there best design work while gathered around at tables and bars after their rounds, with the aid of "Old Grand Dad" for inspiration.  I wonder if the 'society' of golfers generating ideas into the wee hours of the morning was more the thing that spawned American Golf Architecture than the drafting and on-the-ground construction techniques?  
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 02:06:33 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2004, 10:25:57 AM »
Tom -

I think you are on to something.

Myopia was the Harvard home course. (Still is for some matches.) Langford, Behr and Robert Hunter (Yale '11) would have played it in Harvard/Yale matches. Chandler Egan (at Harvard during the same years that Behr was at Yale), Bobby Jones would have played it frequently for the mighty Crimson. RTJ (Cornell) probably played it too.

Myopia was also the site of no less than 5 US Opens before 1920. It was THE course over that period. In addition to the foregoing folks, virtually every other architect of note would have played in or attended one or more of these Opens. MacD, Travis, Emmet, Ross, Fownes, etc.

I'm surprised, however, at how little I've seen in the literature about Myopia as an inspiration for other designs. A little odd. Or maybe it wasn't, in fact, very influencial. Leed's work at Palmetto (South Carolina, circa 1897), for example, had virtually no influnce I can find on courses in the SE.

I hope you or someone will hit the stacks and dig out some answers. An interesting thesis, though.

Bob
« Last Edit: January 16, 2004, 11:41:00 AM by BCrosby »

T_MacWood

Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2004, 01:12:39 PM »
Aiken (and Palmetto) was a bastion for Eastern bluebloods (not unlike Bar Harbor). From what I understand Leeds designed both Palmetto and Kebo prior to Myopia. It is believed Leeds picked up golf on an extensive world tour following his graduation from Harvard. He traveled throughout Europe, as well as China, Japan, Indonesia and India.

After laying out Myopia, in 1902 he went back to UK to study the great links and the emerging art of golf course architecture. Very good timing. Over the next couple of decades he perfected Myopia. I've always wondered what if any role Leeds had in improvements to Brookline.

He never married. The entire left side of his face was covered by a large birth mark. All photos of Leeds are in profile.


BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2004, 01:32:45 PM »
Tom Mac -

Palmetto is something of a mystery. One of the first courses in the SE. For several decades, easily the best course in the SE. Arguably, still one of the best. Yet it has had virtually no impact on designs in the SE. It has no architectural progeny.

The more I think about it, isn't that also true of Myopia?

Did Leeds, after his visit to the UK, do other courses of note?

An odd, stunted career. Particularly in light of his social connections.

I had not heard that about Leeds' face.

Bob
« Last Edit: January 17, 2004, 01:56:43 PM by BCrosby »

T_MacWood

Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2004, 01:59:02 PM »
Bob
I'm not sure why Palmetto didn't have more of an impact...perhaps it wasn't frequented by many Southern gentlemen.

According to Cornish and Whitten Leeds was invloved in the design of Essex County and Bass Rocks. Most of his design focus must have been at Myopia. I do think Myopia had an impact...I know both Travis and Macdonald were impressed by the course and the example Leeds set.

From what I gather Leeds was a pretty strange cat. They constructed a Ladie's annex to the clubhouse at Myopia. And an issue developed when ladies wanted to walk across the "men's porch" to their annex in rainstorms as opposed to walking across the wet grass. "The men's porch was hardly spacious enough to seat more than eight members, glass in hand, but it was sacred. Ladies alighting for their carriages ran the gauntlet of comments, not always subdued. Mr. Leeds and his allies sat in the seats of the mighty...saw no reason to alter the tradition which held that ladies bound for their dining room should walk on the grass, even if wet...".

As far as I know Leeds never worked a day in his life. In 1927 at the 50th anniversary of his Harvard class, Leeds entry: "No special activities of interest."
« Last Edit: January 17, 2004, 06:28:19 PM by Tom MacWood »

T_MacWood

Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2004, 02:05:25 PM »
Evidently Leeds was also heavily involved in yachting. He golfed in spring and early summer, and was devoted to boating (racing) the rest of the season.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2004, 12:51:00 AM by Tom MacWood »

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2004, 02:09:23 PM »
Palmetto Golf Club has a very interesting history and achitechts.  Many members of Palmetto were founding members of Augusta National, just down the road.  Aiken has an environment that is warmer than much of the suroounding aarea in SC.  It was also just exactly a one day trip from New York. Aiken was the winter playground for the very wealty from the Golf Club was founded.  Thomas Hitchcock laid out four holes (where 16, 17, and 18, are locaated).  Herbert Leeds, who was a member, helped lay out a none hole course in 1895.  In 1897 Mr. Hitchcock purchased more land and Leeds completed the 18 holes.  The original course had bermuda fairways and sand greens.

In 1933 Alisster Mackenzie did a redesign of Palmetto .  He drew plans for grass greens and lengethend the course from 5800 yards to almost 6400 yards.  Until 1953 Palmetto hosted a pro-am the tuesday of masters week.  Some of the winners included--Ben Hogan Byron Nelson, Jug mcSpaden and Lawson Little.  Over the years Palmettoo has hosted Harry Vardon, The Prince of Wales, Bing Crosby, politicos from the "right" like Barry Goldwater, and a host of Pros.

Rees Jones, who is a member helped restore many of the traps and greens.

The head pro is Tommy Moore.  He recognizes the historical value of the club and is responible for restoring the pro shop and clubhouse and is the "keeper of the Palmetto flame."  Besides that he is a real southern gentleman.  

The course is fun but not of the quality of Myopia.  Number fourteen may be the most unusual hole I have ever played.  It is about three hundred yards straight uphill.  I mean straight up a hill that would be scary to sled down. The strength of the course are the par threes.  Theyare all strong and vary in length, terrain and difficulty.  The Par fives are short and the par fours vary from execllent  to "what in the wowrld is this."

It is worth a the trip to play, meet Tommy, and step back in time.  It doesn't seem to have had much impact on architecture, because it wasn't designed to.  And unlike Myopia it didn't host many national events.  
« Last Edit: January 17, 2004, 09:36:11 PM by tommy W »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

T_MacWood

Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2004, 05:02:27 PM »
MacKenzie never stepped foot at Palmetto....the work was carried out by his associate Wendell Miller.

"Head pro is Tommy Moore recognizes the historical value of the club..." I hope he wasn't involved in the hiring of Rees to 'restore' the golf course.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2004, 06:05:52 PM »
That's my dream these days, to go back to a school reunion, like Leeds did in 1927, and report that I've been involved with 'no activities of special interest' since gradutation.

That's modesty, eh. Especially considering you were the one who laid out Myopia and several other fine golf courses throughout the eastern US.

Great story.
jeffmingay.com

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2004, 07:05:46 PM »
Tom,

From what I understand, in 1932 Mr. Hitchcock asked Winthrop Rutherfurd, chair of the green committee, to find out from Alister MacKenzie "the lowest price of plans for improvements on the golf course."  This happened at the same time AM was busy with Augusta National.  since many of the members of Palmetto were involved in the development of ANGC it only seemed prudent to ask for some advice from AM.  The work was let out to Wendell Miller who
was constructing the course at Augusta Nationalfor Bobby Jones.  Equipment from Augusta National was even used at Palmetto.  Rutherfurd guided the work and presumably made some changes to the plans as he saw fit.  From what I understand MacKenzie had been to the site, looked briefly at it and drew his plans to be carried out by Miller and one R.L. Brown of Chicago.  It doesn't appear that MacKenzie ever came back to inspect the work.  It is not even clear what if anything MacKenzie was paid.

As for Rees Jones the chairman of the Green Committee, Bobby Goodyear was a good friend of Rees' and asked him for some suggestions for "restoring and improving the golf course."  In appreciation to Rees for his work he was elected an honorary member.  Again I don't know how much or if Rees was paid.  At any rate I think he made suggestions and the club oversaw the work.

Tommy Moore is responsible for keeping alive the spirit of the place  and for providing a warm southern welcome.  
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

T_MacWood

Re:The Grandfather of American Golf Architecture?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2004, 12:17:18 AM »
tommy
I think you are right and I am wrong. I looked at my notes on Palmetto and Miller wrote: "..we built the greens for the Palmetto course in Aiken without the Doctor ever seeing the property after we had the green sites cleared..." It sounds like he had visited the site before creating a plan and clearing the green sites.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back