[Steve_ Shaffer]

Just interesting to note about a possible presidential candidate. Does Dr. Dean play golf?
Steve
From yesterday's New York times:
www.nytimes.com/2003/12/28/politics/campaigns/28DEAN.html

......For the most part, Mrs. Dean said, her four boys — Howard, Charlie, Jim and Bill — lived most of their childhoods in the Hamptons. The boys rode bikes. They played with a model train set. They built elaborate underground forts.

While his parents were active in the exclusive Maidstone Club, an East Hampton institution that for decades refused to admit blacks or Jews, the Dean boys shunned that life. "I had plenty of friends at Maidstone, and they were people I liked," Dr. Dean said. "But it wasn't what I wanted to do. It wasn't that interesting."

[TEPaul]

From what I could tell while sitting around the locker room Howard Dean DOES have plenty of friends around Maidstone. It's interesting as hell to listen to them talk about him because there's no question almost everyone I heard seems to like him but one would definitely not call Maidstone a bastion of the Democratic party!

[EAF]

I am a bit confused... Is Dr. Dean currently a member at Maidstone? Has he been a member at Maidstone in the past? Does he play golf at Maidstone as a guest? Is he a member at another golf club?

What's his handicap? You can learn a lot about someone's character by how they conduct themselves during a golf game.

[Joel_Stewart]

You can learn a lot about someone's character by how they conduct themselves during a golf game.

EAF:
What can you tell me about John Kennedy and Bill Clinton (both democrats) and their correlation between their handicaps and women.

[TEPaul]

EAF:

Man alive, that's a lot of questions of apparently little consequence! I guess you think if someone runs for Pres his entire life should be an open book, huh? Would you like to know if Dean wears boxers or briefs too?

[Howard Dean]

Boxers, no, no, yes, no play at the Nicklaus muni up in Burlington.

[cary lichtenstein]

I don't think Clinton could have worn Jack Kennedy's jock strap.

[Willie_Dow]

Howard

What do you know about Max Behr?

Willie

[Howard Dean]

Willie, I suspect I understand his essays better than our current President.

[Willie_Dow]

OK Doctor

Give us your read on golf course architecture with emphasis on "nature".

Can you make it shorter than Tom Paul's explanation?  

Willie

[GeoffreyC]

I must say that Dr. Dean's upbringing is quite the antithisis of his medical training here at The Albert Einstein College of Medicine.  Both he and his wife trained here (where I am on the faculty) and I will say that experience of training in THe Bronx must have greatly expanded his outlook on the world.

Being a Yalie as well I should appeal to him as an AECOM graduate to get the Yale golf course properly restored.  If he does that he will certainly get my vote!

[Sr Fortson]

Who really cares?  In a few months Howard Dean, like Michael Dukakis, will be a distant bad memory.  Maybe he will sponsor Slick Willie into Maidstone, or at least invite him to the annual member-guest.

[GeoffreyC]

Mr Fortson

Both Howard Dean and his wife spent time as physicians caring for patients and then going into public service. You may dislike his policies as is your right, however, your statement "In a few months Howard Dean, like Michael Dukakis, will be a distant bad memory.  Maybe he will sponsor Slick Willie into Maidstone, or at least invite him to the annual member-guest." is truely one of the absolutely single most STUPID statements ever written on GCA. Not to mention its in such bad taste!

[Dan Herrmann]

Have you seen the Discovery/Times network show in golfing presidents?

It was on last night, and you should've seen President Clinton at Ballybunion (sic).  He was seen as a hero there for his work with Sen. Mitchell on trying to resolve the "troubles" in Ulster/N. Ireland.  They even have a statue of Clinton in the town center.  They did mention Clinton's habit of taking mulligans frequently.

I TiVo'd the rest to watch later, but I'll bet it's very interesting.

[Michael Moore]

Mr. Childs -

I believe you have confused Willie Horton with President Clinton.

[GeoffreyC]

Yes Michael- I did believe that Mr. Fortson was referring to inviting Willie Horton (famous from the Michael Dukakis prison release scandal) being invited to Maidstone. Sorry about that if that is not was he was referring to.  Mr. Clinton at Maidstone is much better   .

[Sr Fortson]

I was simply referring to the presidential campaigns of two liberal New England governors.  Willie Horton never entered my mind.  I only knew that Bill Clinton was referred to as Slick Willie, and not Horton as well.  I should know better than to get involved in political discussions!!!!

[TEPaul]

"Maybe he will sponsor Slick Willie into Maidstone, or at least invite him to the annual member-guest."

I can pretty much guarantee that Bill Clinton will not only not become a member or Maidstone nor get invited to any member-guest there but he'll very likely never be allowed to set foot on Maidstone after the way he treated the club and those couple of members who tried once to arrange a game for him there after he went to great lengths to ask them to do that.

Only trouble was he wanted to play in the middle of the Maidstone Bowl and the tournament chairman said as much as he'd like to accomodate the PRESIDENT of the UUUNITED STATES of AMERICA for a round or two there he couldn't exactly cancel the whole damn Maidstone Bowl to do that.

Well, the next thing they know Clinton has put out a press release saying they asked him to play but he wouldn't think of playing at some elitist club like Maidstone that may not have any blacks or Jewish people as members.

But he was up there anyway staying at Steven Spielberg's house and I swear anytime he went anywhere he had his approximately 20 car motorcade with lights flashing circle past Maidstone like he was a tribe of wild Indians circling the wagon train.

But who can really blame Slick Willie for wanting to get out of Steven's house and away from Hillary as that happened to be the very same weekend Billie Boy finally came clean and admitted Monica gave him blow job in the Oval office. Apparently it wasn't a pretty scene over at Steven's house around Hillary. Apparently Willie tried to redefine sex by telling Hillary that a blow job wasn't really sex but Hillary reportedly didn't exactly buy that.  At that point reputedly Hillary and Slick Willie's natural born political instincts clicked in symbiotically and Hillary told Slick Willie in a very loud voice;

"Listen, you pathetic Arkansas hillbilly scum bag, I'm not buying that redefining sex bullcrap of yours but if the two of us get together on this we can probably convince the American public that the new American definition of sex does NOT include blow-jobs anymore!"

And as you all remember they tried to do exactly that but I'll pretty much guarantee that Slick Willie will never bat a golf ball around Maidstone even if Dr Howard Dean asks him to!

[james soper]

by the way, does maidstone have any black or jewish members? if none, why not?

[klangone]

It is on good authority that the ex-President is not welcome at Maidstone, or any other prestigious club in the Hamptons.  Besides the disdain of his morals and ethics, no club would put up with the caravan of cohorts he has to bring.

I do know he is a member of a Westchester area club.......from what I hear he has been there less than 5 times since joining.

As far as Maidstone having no minorities as members......I would say that was the case a few years back, but it has changed.  The tennis club down the street is another story.....

[TEPaul]

As far as Maidstone and minorities members--I thought some years ago that a fellow--I think he was Scandanavian who belonged there, and my recollection is he was or is married to Diana Ross who last time I saw her on TV looked to me like what some in America refer to as a minority. So if that's true I guess Maidstone has minority members. Now, it may be that Diana has divorced that guy or something, and now Maidstone is out of minority members but I sure hope if that happened that Diana didn't just up and walk out on Maidstone without them at least having something to say about it. If she just gratuitously did something like that I think Maidstone should consider suing Diana for purposefully hurting their image. They may want to even consider suing her for discriminating against the club!

[Scott_Burroughs]

Slick Willie is a member at Trump National.  He probably will
never even try to get on Maidstone again to be denied.

I saw most of that presidential golf thing on TV and current
president Bush's swing wasn't bad - had pretty good club
head speed, too.  Best of the presidents that I saw.

They had a note that Pres. Wilson played something like 600
rounds of golf while in office.

[Ramon T. Hernandez]

This thread strays far from architecture and I don't want to go off on a rant here, but...

On the PBS show that young Mr. Johnson produced about the young rich, Ray Floyd's daughter mused/chuckled about her bringing a Jewish friend to (i think) Maidstone. Ms. Floyd appeared an ignorant, boorish, spoiled moron. Big surprise? No. I think there is an elitist tendency at the joint.

Is it surprising that an elite club would not want a lying fool to disrupt their traditions, even if he carries the presidential seal? No. Is it surprising that Dr. Dean was brought up with privilige and now eschews the virtues of a educated, liberally minded physician/politician. Nunca. Lotsa rich folk and well educated Ivy grads on Prozac, pondering the complexities of life because they lack purpose, know too much, or don't understand the meaning of life.

Many people (Clinton, Dean, whomever) come from the "do as I say, not as I do" school of thought. Some even get to be President. Credible? No. True leaders? No. Give 'em the "what would your Grandmother think" test.

Since you are going to ask...who would I like to play Maidstone with? Since most of my experience is on the other side of golf (working on courses) and as an armchair architect I would like to watch the foursome of Tiger Woods, Tommy Franks, 43, and Tom Doak.

That is just my opinion, I may be wrong (sorry Mr. Miller).

[GeoffreyC]

Ramon

Please tell me specifically what Dr. Dean has done to be placed along with former president Clinton to be within as you say the "do as I say, not as I do" school of thought?

Would the fact that our current president Bush ducked serving in Vietnam and ducked much of his reserve duties and yet he still grandstands flying into the deck of an aircraft carrier to declare victory and the end of "major" hostilities also be categorized as "do as I say, not as I do" school of thought?

[Brian_Gracely]

Ramon,

Young Ms. Floyd's comments were not about her guest at Maidstone, but the Bathing Club.  Maidstone was only shown in a passing scene.

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