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THuckaby2

Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2003, 09:39:23 AM »
All this agreement is getting very scary - but damn that logic does hold and it can be turned the other way also! We need to turn the topic back to college football so I get can back to my comfort zone with Mr. Mucci.   ;)

So the deleters and the powers that be don't get after me again, here's a course that did let me down, at least a little, the first time I played it anyway:

Olympic Club Lake.

Oh, one can feel the history, no doubt.  But that first playing, many years ago, all I got out of it was brutalized... the course was tougher than bejesus, but just no fun - I'm not into drive after drive being batted down by trees, followed by a constant series of 2irons into tightly bunkered greens.

Subsequently I have gotten to play it many more times, and have grown to love it and see its charms (and they have cut back the trees a lot and somehow made it play drier and faster), as such charms have been described in here before by Messrs. Papazian, Stewart, Benham, Reilly et al. So I have seen the error of my ways.  But that first time I came home underwhelmed... which for those who know me must know doesn't happen very often.  I get pretty 'whelmed pretty easily.   ;)

TH

« Last Edit: December 23, 2003, 09:39:56 AM by Tom Huckaby »

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2003, 11:40:30 AM »
The first time I played this course I was let down:

Bandon Dunes

The reason? Unfortunately re Bandon Dunes I had just played 36 at Pacific Dunes the day before, and was totally blown away. Guess I expected something comparable, and it wasn't. Bandon felt so much more modern and manufactured than Pacific, which let me down re Bandon. I enjoyed and appreciated Bandon Dunes much more the second time and the times after that.

The topic of Pacific vs Bandon and how many times you'd play one vs the other has been discussed on here several times before. My letdown re Bandon Dunes illustrated that I'm a 7 of 10 Pacific/3 of 10 Bandon kind of guy.

Happy Holidays,
« Last Edit: December 23, 2003, 11:41:22 AM by Doug Wright »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

ddavid426

Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2003, 11:50:23 AM »
Doug,
I understand your thinking.  I think my higher rating of Bandon is because I played Bandon several times before Pacific opened.  My love of Bandon was already instilled by the time her neighbor was born.  Now I love both, but in different ways.

My disappointment this year was Doonbeg.  Even though I was not predisposed to think it would be fantastic, it still disappointed.  I suppose they did the best they could with all the environmental restrictions, but it was still not much of an experience.

THuckaby2

Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2003, 12:10:28 PM »
Doug, you ignorant slut.  ;D

OK, perhaps Bandon can be seen as a let down to some extent after a steady diet of Pacific Dunes, depending on what one is into... I guess I've give you the benefit of the doubt though - at least you didn't make it 10-0 like some other misguided souls here.  Bandon is a damn fine course that needs to be seen.

I tend to go 6-4 for Pacific, so we're not that far off.

You're still an ignorant slut though.   ;D

TH

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2003, 12:14:40 PM »
TH,

WRONG!

PS, I've been called worse... ;D

Happy Holidays,
Twitter: @Deneuchre

THuckaby2

Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2003, 12:20:12 PM »
Well then so there.  I have never been called worse than what you called me, that is, something I am so unfamiliar with, that is, being... I dare not write it...

WRONG.  

All the best and happy holidays to you also, my friend.
 ;D ;D ;D

Back to let-down courses though, any thoughts from anyone re Olympic Lake?  

TH

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2003, 01:40:34 PM »
I traveled to Ireland this past July, and had wonderful experiences everywhere we went.  We played Bally Old, Tralee, Waterville, Rosses Point, Carne, Connemarra, and Enniscrone.

The one course that let me down was Enniscrone.  We were treated fine, and IMO, links golf is better than Northeastern U.S parkland golf, but the course puzzled me in a couple of ways.  

There are new holes built at the far end of the property in the highest dunes of any we saw in Ireland, and to me, they just do not fit.  Much is to be said about how some courses have duneline the perfect width and spacing for golf holes to be laid in between them (esp. Bally), but on this course, these new holes seem to be built on land where the dunes were not right for golf.  This is esp. evident on holes 12 and 13 (the two short, dogleg par fours with sloping fairways.  

Also, to me, the course had little flow, as there are dune holes, followed by several flat holes, dune holes, a flat hole, and then over the dunes again at the end.

Finally, there were some green slopes that were near impossible to play approach shots to, and we played the course in minimal wind.  The greens on holes 14 and 17 come to mind.

It just suprised me how the holes I didn't like were supposed to be vast improvements over the old routing (which I've never played), but this was hard to believe.  I thought it was amazing how good some holes were, but how poor in comparision others were.

--Brad
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Dan Grossman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2003, 07:23:17 PM »
I haven't played the new holes at Enniscrone (I've played the old course), but I can say that the old course was nothing to write home about.  The old holes that were replaced were very very very bland.

As far as PBGL is concerned, it actually EXCEEDED my expections.  I played the week before the ATT in February 2001 and it was absolutely amazing.  We played in less than four hours and I walked and carried my own bag.  I felt the cliffside holes were fantastic and I really enjoyed the holes away from the ocean as well.  I have only played one golf course in the United States which I view as better than PB, and that is CPC.  
« Last Edit: December 23, 2003, 07:28:26 PM by Dan Grossman »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2003, 07:27:24 PM »
Doug Wright,

That's an interesting statement, and one I can't relate to because I played Bandon Dunes first.

I found substantial differences in the two golf courses, but the differences didn't detract from either golf course.

I thought that both courses complimented each other.

Mike Hendren,

What took you so long ?  ;D

Tom Huckaby,

Eventually, everyone comes around to my opinion ;D
« Last Edit: December 23, 2003, 07:35:53 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

G_Tiska

Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2003, 11:44:34 AM »
The Bridge

Grade A+ property...C golf course at best

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2003, 12:59:03 PM »
The Bridge

Grade A+ property...C golf course at best

Oh, my God!

Here we go again!
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2003, 01:24:18 PM »
Mike,

     I agree that my one playing of the course probably did not do the place justice.  I also imagine that the new holes were a vast improvement over the old (i assume some of the old are contained in the flat third nine).  My traveling companions on my trip thought that I was nuts for criticizing the place, as we were in Ireland after all, but look what reading this site has done to me!  Enniscrone also suffered slightly in comparison to the others we saw, some of the best in the country.

When I think harder about what struck me as strange about the course, I come up with a few different things from my original post.  I guess I was surprised at the dichotomy between the all-world holes and shots (2, 4, 5, 7approach, 8, 14) and the several holes that were very bland (1(strange OB, but cool green),6, 9, 10, 15, 18).  

As for my original evaluation of 12-13, I can explain a bit better.  As for 12, the green is fantastic, and after looking back on it, I should've cut the corner to the gully before the green.  I thought the tee shot was strange, with most shots being repelled to the right rough, and I had trouble deciphering it even with the yardage book in hand.  I'm usually a fan of blind shots, but this one was quite puzzling.  On 13, my dislike is probably due to how i played it (par, but two trips to the hay), and I should be able to hit the fairway with a 5-iron.  It is a pretty interesting hole.

The 14th green is wild, but it is a par five, and this shouldn't matter.  What I forgot to mention in my original post was 15.  I thought that this hole did not fit at all.  It does serve as a link from 14 to 16, but that is about it.  I was anticipating getting near the ocean finally during this round, but the hole was totally flat despite minimal contours left of the fairway that could have been used.  Perhaps this would have brought the course too close to the ocean.  The hole is about 430 or so yards long, and the approach is most likely going to be one of the longer on the course.  An approach of this length to a small green with three tiers is very, very difficult.  The hole, unlike most others to this point, is a slog.  But you can get it back on 16. :)

I've heard criticism before on 17, a difficult hole with or without wind.  It does seem like trying to land a ball on the kitchen table.  All four players in my group hit the green with short irons and ended up long in the tall grass.  The green should be small at that length, and it is a test of the imagination to find a way to keep it out of the weeds.  Carne 16 doesnt quite fit the profile, as I believe that green is rather large and slightly bowl-shaped to catch shots.

I do think Enniscrone has a great set of par 5s, something you don't see too often playing the small acreage courses in the Northeast.  I have some great pics of my dad playing shots from the top of those 10-story dune ridges!!

--Brad

So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2003, 03:29:25 PM »
Sandpines is the worst. I drive 5 hours to play it. I read of its greatness and rave reviews only to find a well manicured piece of land that was not anything but a piece of junk called a golf course.. Torrey Pines South was also a major letdown.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2003, 05:34:39 PM »
Tiger Bernhardt,

Where did you read of its greatness ?
Where did you read rave reviews ?

Who were the authors of these articles ?

What did you think of holes # 2, # 3, # 4, # 5 and # 6 ?

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that let you down
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2003, 03:15:41 PM »
BillV/Redanman,

Re Bandon Dunes yes it was a relative thing, but a letdown nonetheless. As you said in your opening post on this thread about another course,  a "...nice solid modern course but really not anywhere as special as I had been led to believe..." More dirt had been moved, not as natural, etc.

Patrick,

As I said in my post, I appreciated Bandon Dunes more the other times I played it. You're correct--the courses do complement each other nicely. I'm sure the third course will do the same. As long as you have that sort of expectation all's well.

Happy Holidays,
« Last Edit: December 25, 2003, 03:16:03 PM by Doug Wright »
Twitter: @Deneuchre