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Tommy_Naccarato

From Peter Yoon in this last weeks LA Times:

(No offense intended to Les Claytor)

Mark O'Meara, a 16-time winner on the PGA Tour and winner of the 1998 Masters and British Open championships, has begun dabbling in golf course design. Two courses bearing his name already are open — one in Canada and the other in Ireland. O'Meara's first domestic offering, the TPC at Valencia, opened to the public on Thursday.

The TPC at Valencia is a semi-private course with green fees for the general public ranging from $100 to $130 and limited membership opportunities. The course features five sets of tees ranging from 7,260 to 5,380 yards. Most speculate that a professional event will eventually take place at the course, which is owned by the PGA Tour.
   
  It is fitting that O'Meara's first U.S. course is in Southern California. He is a graduate of Long Beach State and Mission Viejo High. The Times caught up with him Thursday after he christened the course with a 300-yard drive down the middle of the first fairway.

Question: You're 46 now. As you approach 50, is course design and consulting something you're going to be focusing on more and more?

Answer: Well, my main objective is still playing professional golf. But I think if I have the opportunity to have some good projects and work with good people and do some good properties, then I want to do it. If I just do it to try and pound out a bunch of courses or make money on it, I don't necessarily need to do it or want to do it. I certainly like to make money — everybody likes to make money — but it's more than that. If it's got my name on it, it's got to be done right.

Q: Fred Couples, speaking about one of the courses with his name attached, said: "I designed the parking lot, that's about it." How hands-on are you in courses with your name attached?

A: That sounds like Fred. I'm not super hands-on, but I certainly let my opinions [be] known. Here, [chief architect] Chris Gray really listened to me. When I originally saw the plans, a whole lot of holes moved left to right. I said 'Hey, you know 10 or 11 of these holes move left to right. I draw the ball. How could this be a Mark O'Meara-consulted course? Most of the holes should be right to left.' So he took that into consideration and we changed a few holes. It's important to convey what you would like to see in a golf course.

Q: How's your game? You've had some good rounds recently — a top 10 at the Masters.

A: I've been playing a little bit better. Certainly at 46 it's not as easy. My focus has been better. I've had more desire and commitment to wanting to play better. For a while there I was kind of floundering around deciding whether I was going to keep playing or am I going to do TV or what am I going to do? But I've enjoyed the competition this year. I've seen some signs — I played OK at Augusta. I was playing pretty well at the U.S. Open — although I didn't play well the last day — but I'm making more cuts and making progress in the right direction. I'd like to win another tournament, that's what I'd like to do.

Q: Just another tournament or another major?

A: Well, I'd like to win that too, but I think you need to be realistic. I'd like to compete well on the tour. Whether it's a regular tour event or the British Open or PGA. Could I win one? Well, I've won a British Open in the past, there's no reason why I couldn't win another one. But I'd just like to win any tournament. I'm not real picky.

Q: Has the game changed since you last won [the 1998 British Open]?

A: The equipment has changed, technology has gotten better, but the players have gotten a lot better. I admit the ball is going farther, but I don't think enough credit has been given to the players. The depth of talent on the PGA Tour, the amount of time that's been spent on fitness in the gym getting stronger and physically fit. That has a huge impact, more than people even understand. The ball does go longer, but they're building longer courses, the pins are tucked closer to the edge of the greens, they're harder, they're faster. Certainly the manufacturers are trying to build better equipment so everybody can enjoy the game more. So far, they've been able to keep it to where they haven't gone outside the limits and as long as they don't go outside the limits, I'm fine.

Q: Was technology an influence in designing the TPC at Valencia?

A: Not really. You have to try to make the golf course somewhat long enough so that if you do have a tournament here eventually, then it'll be tough enough and difficult enough for the tour players. But for the most part we tried to make the TPC Valencia a course that will be an enjoyable experience for the average golfer. You don't want a course that will beat you up so bad you don't want to come back. If you play from the correct tees — and this can't be stressed enough because not everyone plays like Tiger Woods — you will have an enjoyable experience here.

Q: Is there any part of you that wishes the advances in the game had been made 15 years ago so you could enjoy them more in your prime?

A: I wouldn't want to change anything about my career. When I started in 1981, growing up in Southern California, I was hoping I could just get out there for a few years and keep my card and maybe win a tournament some day. Now we sit here 23 years later and I've won 16 PGA Tour tournaments, a couple of major championships, player of the year and all these great things that have happened. And especially with as good as these young players are. You've got Michelle Wie, 13 years old and hitting it as far as I hit it. She could probably come out and beat me.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2003, 08:01:42 PM by Tommy_Naccarato »

ian

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2003, 08:57:54 PM »
One visit was all he put in at Grandview, this is simply an IMG lead way of making that company bigger and richer. I respect any player who takes the time to learn the profession (lots have), but this is typical of most pros. Either put in the time or don't, but just don't pretend that you do; that's when they loose my respect.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2003, 09:07:52 PM »
Are TPC courses viable? DId I hear someone in the industry describe them as faliures fiancially. The reason being, repeat business at $100+ ain't happening and never did. Also, the advantages to being a member are what?

Can someone enlighten us as to why?

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2003, 09:15:21 PM »
Very well put Ian.

Adam,
I agree with all of what you are saying too, with probably the exception of two--PGA West Stadium and though I haven't seen it--The TPC.

I had a horrible nightmare once. I had gone to bed and woke-up the next morning and all of the courses in the world looked like the TPC of Eagle Trace.




Ken_Cotner

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2003, 10:35:43 PM »
From Peter Yoon in this last weeks LA Times:


A: That sounds like Fred. I'm not super hands-on, but I certainly let my opinions [be] known. Here, [chief architect] Chris Gray really listened to me. When I originally saw the plans, a whole lot of holes moved left to right. I said 'Hey, you know 10 or 11 of these holes move left to right. I draw the ball. How could this be a Mark O'Meara-consulted course? Most of the holes should be right to left.' So he took that into consideration and we changed a few holes. It's important to convey what you would like to see in a golf course.


I'm sure the author left out the part where Mark described how he changed a few holes so that they better fit the existing terrain, not that he specifically wanted right-to-left holes.   ::)

Ken

Ken_Cotner

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2003, 10:39:39 PM »
Sorry, that was too easy to swipe at.  Will try to delete.  Note to me:  If you don't have something productive to say...

Ken

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2003, 11:51:42 PM »
Ken,
I have been making that same note to myself for years.

Steve_L.

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2003, 06:54:13 AM »
Tommy,

Have you seen TPC Valencia...?  What are your thoughts about it...?


Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2003, 07:33:48 AM »
Tommy/Adam - I've played 16 of the 24 TPCs and am a founding member of one (Avenel - solid top 10,000).  You are right about the viability.  I have heard thru my club that a good third of the TPCs are financially shaky.  A couple are real money makers for the PGA - TPC Sawgrass, Avenel (not sure why), and PGA West for example.  JC  

Gyrogolf

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2003, 11:23:06 AM »
Freddie is the nicest guy on the planet, but there is no excuse for attaching your name to something you had nothing to do with. On opening day at San Juan Oaks, he literally had to be shown where the next hole was . . . . .

Of course, that may be a better alternative to some of the *hands on* stuff Johnny Miller has churned out over the years.

I guess every pro is bound to be a victim of bias towards their own golf game and prejudices. Maybe they ought not design courses at all. When you are *that* good, it is hard to envision and design a course playable for the average hacker.  
« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 11:23:22 AM by Gyrogolf »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2003, 01:07:51 PM »
Steve, I have not seen or been to the TPC at Valencia, and I hope that I didn't mislead anyone in thinking that I had.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing the course, and seeing where the PGA Tour intends to someday move the LA/Nissan Open (It will always be the LA Open to me.) I was more interested in O'Meara's comments which could be packaged and reused again for other "player/architects" at press junkets. It is amazing how good these players can be golf course designers and maintaining that competitive bent.:)

In truth though, I'm not a fan of packaging, and I do think that the TPC's are guilty of this to some extent. But then I look at Bandon Dunes, and the attempts to do what they are doing up there, I can breath a sigh of relief that someone does get it when it comes to packaging.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2003, 01:27:58 PM »
Thanx Jonathan. The confusion on why some succeed and some fail is a road i'd like to visit. Maintenance costs? mis-manged? Mis-placed? Any speculation's on why?

 Hindsight being 20/20 does anyone know what these "planners" missed?


Thomas_Brown

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2004, 01:23:20 AM »
Mark your calendar - On 8/2/2004, you can get your ticket punched for Winged Foot if you can navigate TPC Valencia.

 ::)

I'm sympathetic towards picking qualifying sites, but Rustic is a SCGA Mid Am q site and TPC is a US Am q site?

This is my fantasy league:
http://www.scga.org/tourney/2004SCGATournamentSchedule.htm

CORKY

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2004, 02:18:16 AM »
I HAVE PLAYED THE TPC @ VALENCIA 6 TIMES..AND  I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT MARK O'MEARA WAS THINKING ON THE PAR 5'S ON THE BACK SIDE.... THEY ARE A JOKE!!!!

COOLDADDYO  

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2004, 09:19:38 AM »
Although I don't know how it is holding up financially, I have to admit that I really like playing the TPC at River Highlands in Connecticut. While a few of the holes on the front 9 (3–7) are somewhat nondescript, it is a very enjoyable and challenging round of golf—especially navigating the holes that surround the lake on the back 9 (15, 16, 17).

I don't think I'd want to be a member there (real estate is very expensive and the course is closed frequently for outside tournaments, including the GHO), but it's a fun place to play three or four times a summer. At the very least, it is typically in fantastic shape, which is more than I can say for many courses in the area.

les_claytor

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2004, 10:24:45 AM »
Tommy,

Why would I be offended?  I've learned to never take for granted what most reporters write, and have very thick skin.

I'll be in LA in Febr., and hope to play Valencia and Rustic Canyon.  Somewhat opposite ends of the spectrum in construction, but but I'm looking forward to it.

The article was typical info by the way, good for wrapping a good, cheap serving of fish and chips (they figured that out along time ago in Scotland!).

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2004, 10:41:48 AM »
Chris Gray really listened to me. When I originally saw the plans, a whole lot of holes moved left to right. I said 'Hey, you know 10 or 11 of these holes move left to right. I draw the ball. How could this be a Mark O'Meara-consulted course? Most of the holes should be right to left.' So he took that into consideration and we changed a few holes. It's important to convey what you would like to see in a golf course.

I couldn't read past this paragraph. Was there anything interesting in it after that?

I sure hope Tiger is not listening to his pal O'Meara: "It's important to convey what YOU [emphasis added] would like to see in a golf course."

If he is listening, we can expect Tiger Woods Signature Courses to feature a bunch of 300-yard forced carries off the tee.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

A_Clay_Man

Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2004, 10:54:25 AM »
Not too much picturewise but some of the features look interesting from the schematics.

Chris Gray seems like he'll never be a real fan of Chipoats.


The sixth with it's centerline nasty is quite fetching to my eye, save for the pic.


Here ya go Chip-



Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Mark O'Meara on Golf Course Architecture and The TPC of Valencia
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2004, 11:52:28 AM »
Isn't this the course with that heinous bunker that looked like a half pipe?  

O'meara would be better served to just keep quiet about his involvement rather than saying something stupid like the lump sum of his input was to make more holes that favor drawing the ball.  

Puh-leez.  

What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

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