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Matt_Ward

Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« on: December 20, 2003, 02:14:30 PM »
I'd like to get feedback from folks who have a good bit of knowledge on the golf in Hawaii.

I am preparing a major travel piece for a few speciality magazines and I'd like to get some sense of the best "pure golf" experience. Just to be clear -- I'm not speaking about the food, the pool, the spa, the views from the hotel -- yada, yada, yada. Just the golf -- pure and simple.

If you can assist with the top five courses on each of thes three islands listed below it would be most appreciated. Please list courses no matter the classification. Many thanks and happy holidays ... ;)

*Oahu
*Maui
*Big Island

One other thing -- if you mention a course that you have played from say 5 years or more please make note of it because the most current info is always the more reliable.

Norbert P

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2003, 02:49:38 PM »
  Kahuku Links (niner) near North Shore on Oahu (toward  Kaneohe).
I think it's 10 dollars and you will be in warmest Scotland on simple golfing grounds.  
  Sandy (deep sand) turf.
  Quirk.
  Windy.
  Windblown trees looking rather bonsai.
  Views that are glorious and some features that are imaginative.  
  One blind shot at 8.  Be sure to look off at the virgin linksland! behind this green and dream of another nine.
  Repeat.  Repeat.  Repeat.
 
  It's where the locals play.  (Don't be an ugly Hauli)

  Go snorkeling afterwards.

  Take SPF lip balm.

  Take pictures.
 


"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Matt_Ward

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2003, 02:54:00 PM »
Slag:

Do you have any Website info? Can you provide any other course specifics -- like approximate total length, designer, par for each nine, memorable holes beyond the 8th.

It sounds quite inviting.

I know my wife will enjoy the snorkeling part.

Thanks ... ;)

larry_munger

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2003, 03:42:22 PM »
Have heard raves about David Kidd's new course on the big island (Namea?).  

Andy_Lipschultz

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2003, 03:55:31 PM »
Slag: I never imagined anyone on this DG would have played Kahuku. It's great fun and it's actually on the East shore of Oahu, as Turtle Bay is the end of the North Shore.

Matt: It really is a step back in time and you'll get to know some locals, so if you want to go surfing they can take you or you can at least drop their names so you don't get too "vibed" in the water. BTW, if you don't surf--at least try it once, go to Waikiki, home of the best beginner wave in the world.

It seems like you would dig Koolau which you can access from the East shore or the Honolulu area. It has some insanely high slope rating, 150ish as I recall.

Norbert P

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2003, 04:00:59 PM »
  Matt, this is what I found...  (Seems the greens fees have gone way up since last Fall.)

  www.hawaiigolfguide.com/courses/kahukuoahu/1025.html

  (please notice - NO RENTAL CARTS available!)  Hallelujah!
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Norbert P

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2003, 04:11:43 PM »
 There's also Coral Creek (Robin Nelson) west of Honolulu that, on it's 10th hole, has a huge waterfall behind the green.  Other than that it has a lot of fun stuff.  

  http://www.coralcreekgolfhawaii.com/

 Andy, Jonathan C has also played it and has a great story to tell of Kaneohe Marine Base Golf Course, which has a few great holes.

 I wanted to play Ko'olau but ran out of time.  I was warned about it's severity but also that it was quite beautiful.  Next time for sure.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2003, 04:12:45 PM by Slag__Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2003, 04:45:02 PM »
Matt

Although I haven't been there yet, a friend who has gave The Dunes at Maui Lani high praise. It's ranked #8 in Hawaii by Golfweek, if that means anything to you. It's described as an "inland links."Take a look:

www.dunesatmauilani.com

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Martin Del Vecchio

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2003, 04:51:30 PM »
You can't beat the Kapalua Plantation course on Maui.  Great golf course, unbelievable views, etc. etc.  I also played the Palmer course there (Village?), which was decent resort golf, but nowhere near the Plantation course.

On the Big Island I played Mauna Kea, and was a little underwhelmed.

blasbe1

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2003, 05:24:53 PM »
The Plantation Course is an amazing layout and great use of land.  When I played a couple of years ago the greens were very slow which was a bit of a drag.  

Thomas_Brown

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2003, 01:28:38 AM »
Hi Matt - The family & I are headed that way in January.
I was there last year as well on the Big Island.
Here's what I liked:

Hualulai - Nicklaus course - Senior PGA Tour stop in Jan.
Best greens I've seen in Hawaii.
Some of the holes are quite ordinary, others are exceptional.

I toured the Weiskopf 9 holes last year - didn't play it.
Seemed like too much elevation change for my taste.

Mauna Lani - North & South
OK - You asked for pure golf - the scenery and excitement of hitting the shots on the par 3's over water are fantastic.  Maybe it's not a purist's heaven, but I love the uniqueness of it.

Kapulua - Dilapidated.

Jonathan Cummings

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2003, 09:34:26 AM »
Matt

Kahuku Links???  It was 5 miles north of my house.  It is basic golf to the point of extreme!  I can't imagine a golfer of your ability would get much out of this place.  Nine flags are planted in a poorly mowed (where there is any grass) field.  When I lived there it was $4 to play and they overcharged you!

Oahu - play Koolau.  It will be in bad shape, take you 5 hours to play and even you Matt will lose a few slieves of balls.  What you will take from Koolau is an appreciation for golf design difficulty.  For fun, play Luana Hills.  This PBDye course (a few miles from Koolau) has a back nine routed through a dense jungle.  It is an excellent example of how the land dictated the course resulting in almost no good holes.  But the setting is mystical.  Mid Pacific - this quiet Seth Raynor design is the stuff of quality golf and old time architecture.  Oahu CC - constrained set of holes running up and down a narrow valley, but the greens are always perfect and the 150 year old banyon trees are unique.

Maui - agree with Dunes at Maui Lani - affordable with some holes of merit.  I've also enjoyed the Makena and Wailua courses - setting sun scenery unparalleled.  Stay away from Kaanapoli and Kapalua - $250+ a round....

Big Island - Big Island CC - this place is 45 minutes up the mt from Kona, is uncrowded, reasonably priced and they had lots of acreage to build on.  Holes explore a well varied piece of topography.  Waimea is also a pleasant inland tract build within the Parker Ranch.  After golf stop by Merriman's for steaks!

Call me before you go.

JC        

Matt_Ward

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2003, 01:47:10 PM »
Gentlemen:

Appreciate the help. I'll be in Hawaii the beginning of February for two weeks and since my wife and I will be with another couple (fortunately the guy does play golf) I'll need a good combination of golf options.

I'm grateful for those who have pinpointed a few places that are modest in the green fees department. I will only have two days in Oahu before venturing to the Big Island for a week and then a about 4-5 days in Maui.

Just a quick question for those who may know --

How worthwhile is playing The Price Course on Kaui? It's been consistently rated among the 4-5 best courses in all of the islands and wanted to get some feedback.

Jonathan:

Thanks for the heads-up on Koolau although I have to add that from what I have heard the course is perpetually wet and a few of the "forced carries" from the tips can be a bit much. Nonetheless, it might be something to see.

I'll contact you after Xmas for a few thoughts.

One last thing --

On Oahu I'm looking to play something that fits the Hawaiian landscape with some real architectural elements that are beyond the r-e-s-o-r-t-i-s-h type stuff that dots the landscape. If someone has the "one" place on Oahu that fits the bill I'm all ears.

On the Big Island there seems to be a mixed bag regarding Kapulua -- some rave about it and yet I have heard from a few others that it doesn't have the complete package for the entire round.

P.S. I hope to check out Nanea and play the new Nicklaus course for Lyle Anderson called The Club at Hokuli'a -- both on the Big Island.

Appreciate all the feedback and suggestions ... ;)

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2003, 04:35:36 PM »
Matt,
  Kauai has two excellent golf courses at opposite ends of the price spectrum. The Prince course at Princeville is the best course I have played in Hawaii, if there is any way to fit it in I don't think you will be disappointed. $$$$ :P, but worth a look for sure. The other course is a muni, which I cannot remember the name of. Its between the airport and Princeville, more towards the airport. It hosted the Publinx or something along those lines around the time I played it. The best value in Hawaii that I have played (~$35 at the time). Decent architecture and right next to the ocean. An excellent combo to play both of those tracks during your trip. I would skip the Oahu golf and go to Kauai.
  Good talking to you yesterday, have a great trip. I look forward to hearing about the Big Island courses, I will be there in April.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Wayne Freeman

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2003, 11:24:08 PM »
Maui has a lot of good golf courses, but price could be a factor.  Kapalua Bay is just beautiful.  The hotel there is in a gorgeous spot and the snorkling there is first rate.  The Plantation course is definitely worth playing and I have always enjoyed the Bay Course with it's ocean vistas.  Makena is also very good. The Trent Jones Jr. North course is a challenging and pretty layout. The Sands at Maui Lani is a  links course near the airport.  Very windy, it is an ok layout but reasonable in price.  My good friend Bill Greenleaf, former head pro at Sunningdale in Scarsdale, N.Y. is the director of instruction and is an awesome teacher. If you had a lot of time, it's certainly worth going to Lanai-  the Lodge at Koele is fabulous and the Greg Norman Experience at Koele is  very nice with one of the most spectacular driving holes you will every see.
     On the Big Island, the Mauna Kea is the best course- it is very classy and architecturally excellent. I think it's the best course I have played in Hawaii. In the winter you can often see whales. The Mauna Lani courses are fun because of the stark contrast between the fairways and the black lava.
     If you did get to Kauai, Princeville is terrific although you have to play it a couple of times because you can run out of fairway on some holes, and Kauai Lagoons is a lot of fun.  Poipu, although well known is not that great in my book.  

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2003, 07:20:26 AM »
Matt - a few corrections...  You say Kapu(a)lua on The Big Island.  I'm sure you meant Maui.  lwaynef says "Sands of Maui Lani".  It's The Dunes at Maui Lani.  

I agree with ed_getka - The Prince (not to be confused with the original three nines at Princeville) at Princeville is the best course on the Islands.  The Kauai public course cited is called Wailua and it is quite good - wind a huge factor and the back nine much better (and harder) than the front.

Still stand by my opinion that Oahu CC and MidPac CC on Oahu are the most interesting (very non-resort) architecture on Oahu.

JC

ChipOat

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2003, 09:03:38 AM »
Matt:

Will get back on this one but 2 quick thoughts:

1) I'm the only guy I know that doesn't think The Prince is the best course in Hawai'i.  Like Hudson National, it's a fine effort on a tough piece of property.  The other courses on Kauai are just as good IMO - one of them a hidden gem called Grove Farms that Steve Case just bought and finished the last 4 holes.

I also like Maidstone a lot so consider the source of this opinion.

2) The purest golf on Oahu is Oahu CC, IMO.  Mid-Pac is close behind and Kaneohe Clipper at the Marine Corps base on the north side of the island has some absolutely world-class holes down by the ocean.  OCC and MPCC are private clubs - let me know if you need help getting on.

Matt_Ward

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2003, 02:51:21 PM »
It seems the preferred island of choice for all-around golf is Maui. Am I wrong with that statement?

P.S. For those who favor The Prince -- just want to know any particular details that makes it the top choice among GD ratings and GW? Thanks ... ;)

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2003, 04:37:32 PM »
    On the Big Island, the Mauna Kea is the best course- it is very classy and architecturally excellent. I think it's the best course I have played in Hawaii. In the winter you can often see whales. The Mauna Lani courses are fun because of the stark contrast between the fairways and the black lava.
     If you did get to Kauai, Princeville is terrific although you have to play it a couple of times because you can run out of fairway on some holes, and Kauai Lagoons is a lot of fun.  Poipu, although well known is not that great in my book.  
I have to disagree with Mauna Kea, I thought it was terrible.  Its basically a 1 hole golf course (the 3rd) and its too hard for the average resort player.  The conditions are horid and staff rude.

Nanea up on the hill is supposdly very difficult but very interesting and I'm hearing some pretty good things about the Big Island CC.

On Kauai, I've played Princville once and lost a dozen balls so can't really comment although its very pretty.  I liked Kauai Lagoons quite a bit, some good variety, interesting holes.

On Oahu, I think you could narrow it down to three courses, with the new Robin Nelson course called Royal Kunia probably being the best.  Its up on a mountain by the airport with great views.  

Matt:  If you want to talk with Robin Nelson who has designed 30+ courses in Hawaii let me know.

Matt_Ward

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2003, 05:03:20 PM »
Joel:

I send you an offline message. Thanks for the suggestion on Royal Kunia.

Can someone explain to me how Mauna Kea gets rated soooo high -- it seems a good number of people feel it simply gets it inks with a johnny "one-note" hole (e.g. the 3rd)?

P.S. Clearly, there are ranges in taste but the perspective of Hawaiian golf is generally diverse given what people have said thus far. Very interesting ... ;)

Andy_Lipschultz

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2003, 11:03:05 PM »
Matt: I've played the Prince course about a dozen times, all of them before I became more attuned to design, so my memories as more visceral than specific. That said, what I took away from the course was amazing beauty, poor greens, heroic carries on a number of holes and the feeling that whenever I parred a hole, it was a quite a triumph.

The 1st hole is the hardest opening hole I've ever played. The 10th is a goofy horsehose like par 5 which I hate. Very curious as to others thoughts on this hole.  Still, IMO it far outshines Poipu and the Lagoons course near the airport.

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2003, 11:24:10 PM »
Matt:
Are you also looking at courses on Kauai?  Grove Farm was a public 10 hole golf course which was purchased by Steve Case of AOL.  He hired Robin Nelson to complete the course which opened all 18 a few months ago.  I believe they have a web site and Robin speaks very highly of the course.

One other course I forgot to mention that I liked was Launa Hills on Oahu.  Its in a very jungle like setting, designed by one of the Dyes.  Its one of the more challenging courses on Oahu, could be set up to play fairly hard.  The course has some good qualities, which would rank in my top 5 for Oahu.

Todd_Eckenrode

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2003, 12:26:02 PM »
I spend a good bit of time on the Big Island every year for R&R, but usually play little golf.  Of the ones I've seen or played, though, would rate them as follows (no differentation of private/public).  Also, my criteria is fun, not rankings, as this is why you play vacation golf.

Nanea, Mauna Kea, Mauna Lani (Ocean), Makalei, Big Island, Hualalai.  

I thought Nanea was pretty interesting.  Doesnt' look like much from the road (golf on a steady sideslope) but many more subleties on site that Kidd and his talented crew (Jay, Paul) did a good job with.  

Heard Mauna Kea was looking more encroached of late with mansions.  Agree it's not really up to the ratings it's gotten, but still plenty of good and fun holes...would say more than just #3, certainly.

Just played Makalei.  Similar to Big Island, in that it's "inland", up at an elevation of 2-3,000 feet or so, core golf, Dye group (I think) and diverse in it's vegetation from what you're used to down by the water.  Felt a bit like Jurasic Park!  Is 900' of elevation change, which amazed me (and they display it on the card like that's a good thing!).  Of course, cart-golf, but had some really fun holes.  I liked it better than Big Island, in that it had fewer railroad tie-lakes, and better shaping.  Is in worse shape, though.  Intrawest took over Big Island, and supposedly in good shape now.

Need to see Hokulia (new Nicklaus), as I've heard it's good, and heard from Kidd group that Waikaloa Kings course was interesting, but haven't seen it.

Have fun!  That's what I do there.  It's not the best golf in the world, but can be very enjoyable.


JohnV

Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2003, 12:41:02 PM »
Matt:

Will get back on this one but 2 quick thoughts:

1) I'm the only guy I know that doesn't think The Prince is the best course in Hawai'i.  Like Hudson National, it's a fine effort on a tough piece of property.  The other courses on Kauai are just as good IMO - one of them a hidden gem called Grove Farms that Steve Case just bought and finished the last 4 holes.

Chip, now you know 2.  I'm not a big fan of the Prince either.  I liked Wailua Municipal and Poipu Bay more.  I also enjoyed Kauai Lagoons, Kiele course as much as the Prince.  The Prince just seemed to be forced into the land, with many of the par 5s and quite a few par 4s forcing layups off the tee.

Doug Wright

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Re:Need help ... Best courses in Oahu, Maui and the Big Island???
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2003, 01:19:49 PM »
Matt,

Kapalua Plantation is one of my favourite courses anywhere--which means you'll hate it  ;) ;) As others mentioned above, terrific ground game options, lots of width, a decent challenge if the wind is up and some QUIRK due to the sloping terrain and grain. However, you won't feel that your driving game is challenged, Matt, and that's why you won't like it... :( :(  Note: do NOT hit driver on the Plantation's first hole, Matt, or you'll perhaps walk off after hitting only a single shot!  ;D

I always found the Kapalua Village course (Palmer/Seay) to be more challenging and think you would too but I believe they've messed it up some, eg the 18th is now a tame par 3 I think.

Matt, knowing your game and predilections as I do, I think you'd enjoy the short trip from Lahaina to Lanai to the Manele Bay Hotel (take your wife along and have her do a spa/pool day there) to play Nicklaus's Challenge at Manele. Some decent par 4s, a couple of cool over-ocean carries and a fun day trip.

Happy Holidays,
Twitter: @Deneuchre