[wsmorrison]

Mike,

We'll walk the 7th hole on St. Patrick's day, I'll try my darndest to explain it to you and then I'll beat you with a shillelagh until you see the light.  If that doesn't work, I'll call in Kyle and that Welshman will take care of business on you, you stubborn Irishman  

[mike_beene]

It has to be 12 at St Andrews.It seems like anywhere in front of the green or back right requires a bump up and its easy to go off the other side.I will do anything to get to the back left where the odds of embarassment are less.

[blasbe1]

the greensites at 5th and 13th at Cuscowilla offer some of the best ground game options for courses I've recently played.

[Jeff Fortson]

#18 St. Andrews (Old)
#14 Royal Dornoch
#7 Kingsbarns
#12 Rustic Canyon
#12 St. Andrews (Old)


Jeff F.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Wayne, I saw those pictures and I just shuddered how great that hole really is. Its one of my favs. Definitely in my All-time 18. (Personal Edition)

[TEPaul]

The 13th at Royal County Down---the only problem is, as cool as that ground game approach has got to be you really can't see it happen! But if you do it the way they tell you or you're supposed to you'll be pretty amazed when you get there!  

By the way, the "maintenance meld" does depend on firm and fast conditions "through the green" to a large extent but  the "Ideal Maintenance Meld" is essentially a "balance" of available options----a point of equilibriun, in fact, and for that to occur the firmness of the green surface must be such that a well struck aerial shot from a clean lie will merely lightly "dent" the green---nothing more! That dials down on the reliablity of controlling an aerial approach. The reason for that particular item is if greens are more receptive than that good players will generally use the aerial game all day long. That must be discouraged to a point where aerial and ground game options are brought to a point of "decision making equilibrium"! That is the "Ideal Maintenance Meld"!

PS;

And of course if a club can get the maintenance crew to do the boogie in the bunkers in the morning instead of raking or sand proing them---so much the better!

[Michael Plunkett]

Archie, great seeing your name on the forum.


I enjoy Twisted Dune's  # 11 and #15 - two wonderful holes where you can run the ball.  

#9 of course is a great hole coming into the clubhouse, especially late in the afternoon.

I love running the ball down the mound on #15 and the optical illusion on  # 11 over clubs my opponents every time, as it did me at one time.  Arch- built another course soon.

[Mike Hendren]

The 9th at The Old Course.  A homely step-sister that can be approached with every single club in the bag.  Why do I keep making 5's there?

Mike

[T_MacWood]

The second at Lost Dunes, the 13th at Crystal Downs and one of the only ground game par-3's I can think of, the 9th at Highland Links at Truro. The common denominator: wildly contoured greens.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

Get your Buckeye butt to Philadelphia.  I'll show you a terrific ground game par 3, and uphill at that!  It is the 10th at Rolling Green.  It is 250 from the back of the back tee.  Flynn's drawing indicated it to be 260.  Clearly in 1926 it would take a low hard draw on a firm and fast fairway.  The best players of the day would have to run the ball at least 30 yards.  The fairway cants right to left, off the right bunker and there were 2 (now 4) bunkers below the fairway making for a difficult recovery.

[Kyle Harris]

No Wayne, you're wrong on how to play that...

You dribble three wood past the forward tee and then stick a 6 iron three feet from the stick.  

[wsmorrison]

That was an impressive 3 you made Kyle.  Not out of the Spalding Guide Book.  When you come back, try playing a low running hook if it is firm and fast.  We'll go behind the tee and try it from 260!

[T_MacWood]

Wayne
I should have qualified my comment about the 9th at Truro...its only 120 yards long.

You're right I do need to make to Philly, we've got some pretty decent courses here in Buckeyeland as well.

[wsmorrison]

I am pretty unfamiliar with Ohio courses outside of Pepper Pike Club, TCC in Pepper Pike, Elyria CC and North Baltimore CC(my college roomate is from NB).  I was very impressed by TCC and if there are courses in the state better than that, you really do have a golf rich state.

I'll more than likely be in Columbus later this summer, so I'll gladly check out your neck of the woods.  I'd say you're missing more in Philadelphia than I'm missing in Columbus  

[The Spirit Of Ran]

 It's great to see one of my old posts make it back up to the top!

Lets throw another view into this:

1-Best Ground Game Hole at Augusta.
2-Best Ground Game Hole at Pinehurst.
3-Best Ground Game Hole on The Old Course.
4-Best Ground Game Hole at Baltusrol.
5-Best Ground Game Hole in Australia

And then debate those.

[ian]

Tom MacWood,

Thompson also designed a real nice course at Truro (N.S.), called Truro. Highland Links is at Ingonish Beach.

The 9th has some great contour, but it is largely a bowl shaped green that slopes towards play. It receives anything well. Are you confusing this with #8 perhaps, the green falls away from play and flattens out at the back?

[T_MacWood]

Wayne
Five courses that have been ranked on the top 100 in the world is pretty good for our little town...not too many cities can claim that, including Philly.

Ian
Highland Links Truro is a circa 1895 course on Cape Cod. This is the wicked green...they must have used a green filter when they took this picture...notice the shelf near the back.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

6 at Bandon Dunes, 2 TOC, 6 Olympic Club well Gib taught me to play the hole this way and I love it

[David Kelly]

I liked the short par 5 11th at Leatherstocking.  The green sits below the fairway and a steep bank on the right side of the fairways kicks balls left onto the green.  I am a sucker for any hole that lets you run up your approach shot, have it go out of sight for a second only to reappear again on the green if it has been struck correctly.

Other great ground game holes:
Plainfield #7
Sand Hills #10
Rustic Canyon #12
Pacific Dunes #8

[wsmorrison]

Tom MacWood,

Philadelphia has the following in GW classic 100:

Pine Valley
Merion
Aronimink
Huntingdon Valley
Philadelphia Country
Manufacturers
Rolling Green

P.S.  I only ask for a little latitude in including Pine Valley.

[Philippe Binette]

Not in order but

1) Montebello 12th
downhill and slider left to right... the hole is a tight 385 yards and from 170 out, I punched a 4 iron that landed 50 yards short and 15 yards left and stopped 15 feet pin high right of the hole...

2) Stonewall north 5th. but watch out for the swale on the right...

3) Oakmont 1st 10th 12th or 15th... down on the same hill

4) Kingston Heath 7th with a front pin...

5) Garden city 15th all local knowledge, but a lot of side movement on that green

[ian]

Tom,

My bad.

Typical "Can"centric reply.

sorry.

[James Bennett]

Australian suggestion - #8 at Kooyonga (Adelaide).  About 440 yards, slight dogleg left.  Green visible from the lhs of fairway, elevated on a nob.  Bunkers at right and front left.  steep fall away at sides and rear.  Small green, slightly convex.  60 yards out, the fall is towards the green, then 10 yards out, slightly climbing to the green.  Greens are normally firm and fast.  The green might receive a 9 iron, just.  Any long iron is definitely 'ground game' on.

[Tom_Doak]

For Ran's subsequent question:

At Augusta:  it's probably the "speed slot" drive at the 10th.  MacKenzie expected the possibility of running approaches at the 5th, 14th and 17th, but I have never seen anyone at The Masters think about trying any of them ... the consequences of leaving it short at 5 and 14 are much too severe.

At Pinehurst No. 2:  The 14th, 15th and 16th holes have approaches which are good for landing short and bumping on, and they're long enough that many golfers use them.

At St. Andrews:  The approach to the 12th is hard to beat, although the 2nd and 4th and 18th also have their moments.  I asked Jack Nicklaus last summer how he played the 12th, and he discussed placing the tee shot between the two sets of bunkers when playing into the wind ... which was fascinating in its own right, although he never really got to the approach.

At Baltusrol:  Good one!

In Australia:  I love the approach to the 3rd at Royal Melbourne (West), but most people just fly it in there.  The 4th at Woodlands pretty much demands a running approach.

[Scott_Burroughs]

For Ran's subsequent question:

At Augusta:  it's probably the "speed slot" drive at the 10th.  MacKenzie expected the possibility of running approaches at the 5th, 14th and 17th, but I have never seen anyone at The Masters think about trying any of them ... the consequences of leaving it short at 5 and 14 are much too severe.

Norman was forced into it on #17 during the final round of the '86 Masters (I'm sure no one here remembers that  ).  Pulled his drive far left (by 7 green) and had to punch blind under a tree and rolled the ball at least 50 yards onto the green between the bunkers to a few feet.  One of the best shots I've ever seen.

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