What constitutes a "golf club"?

[Chris Hughes]

If a claim of "we are a golf club" is made...


...what are you looking for to confirm or deny said claim?

[John Kavanaugh]

18 holes and no pickleball.

[Wayne_Kozun]

18 holes and no pickleball.

So Augusta and Merion don't qualify?

[John Handley]

Golf is the focus.  There is a difference between country clubs and golf clubs.

[Matt_Cohn]

Is the answer as simple as the existence or non-existence of social memberships?

[Chris Hughes]

Is the answer as simple as the existence or non-existence of social memberships?

!!!

[Carl Johnson]

Is the answer as simple as the existence or non-existence of social memberships?

Matt, that's a great tell.  I'd say it's a little more complicated, but for one factor it's hard to think of a better one.  More later.

[John Kavanaugh]

18 holes and no pickleball.

So Augusta and Merion don't qualify?

If they have Pickleball then no.

[Richard Fisher]

Suspect the guiding presumptions here are North American, but in the UK the large majority of golf clubs will have cohorts of ‘house’ or ‘social’ members, often comprising those too elderly now to play golf actively but still keen to meet up with their golfing friends for lunch and a drink. This would apply to most of Ran’s 147 ‘stewards’ that are UK-based. Most of them would run a mile at being described as ‘Country Clubs’…

[Carl Johnson]

Subsidiary question.  Must a golf club cater to low handicappers, have an orientation to pro level tournament play, or may it be equally fun and challenging for golfers of all ability levels?  My answer is a golf club can be any of these things.  It is a choice, a market choice.  But in any of these cases, the focus must be on golf.

[Carl Johnson]

Suspect the guiding presumptions here are North American, but in the UK the large majority of golf clubs will have cohorts of ‘house’ or ‘social’ members, often comprising those too elderly now to play golf actively but still keen to meet up with their golfing friends for lunch and a drink. This would apply to most of Ran’s 147 ‘stewards’ that are UK-based. Most of them would run a mile at being described as ‘Country Clubs’…

Excellent point.  Maybe the term "social" membership is a problem.  I toss out "Retired Golfer Memberships" (RGMs) as an alternative to "social," but there are probably better names.  In any case, the category would only apply to former golf playing members of the club.

[Jon Sweet]

If a claim of "we are a golf club" is made...


...what are you looking for to confirm or deny said claim?

A lot like pornography, you will know it when you see it.  You can certainly see when one was but isn't anymore IMO.

[Ben Malach]

A golf club is its members, not its land. If they play and compete, they're a club.

I think it's important to remember that a lot of the earliest golf clubs were founded on common land. I think we are going to see a return to more unaffiliated golf clubs as the game has become more popular. Avid golfers will always want to be members somewhere, but the cost of joining or creating a club near home isn't financially sustainable. Therefore, they form around a bunch of different ideas and platforms. I think the biggest example of this trend is the Nest for NLU. They have real events and casual matches.
The Gimmie Golf Club in St. Louis is another model that looks interesting. They partner with local courses for reduced-rate tee times and have a physical clubhouse that is open to members and the public.

This is the area where we are going to see the most club growth. I think there is also a huge advantage to being able to expand and grow your club while providing more access to competitive golf to the masses.

I think these unaffiliated clubs have a lot of room to grow and shape the future of the game.

[Thomas Dai]

A golf club imo is a joint or co-operative organisation, one where like minded individuals come together to participate in something and importantly share the costs, possibly the ownership and any significant (not minor) decision making required.
Very different to a facility owned by and likely run by one person or body for essentially money making purposes.
atb

[Carl Johnson]

A golf club imo is a joint or co-operative organisation, one where like minded individuals come together to participate in something and importantly share the costs, possibly the ownership and any significant (not minor) decision making required.
Very different to a facility owned by and likely run by one person or body for essentially money making purposes.
atb

Excellent point.  Focus on club. Membership involvement is essential to the good health of a club.  The members must be kept well informed of the club's operations and participate in the operations to the extent reasonable.

In the USA most golf clubs are organized as nonprofit corporations (under state law) intended to operate as tax-exempt under Section 501(c)(7) of the Internal Revenue Code as: "Clubs organized for pleasure, recreation, and other nonprofitable purposes, substantially all of the activities of which are for such purposes and no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder."

In spite of the "social membership" issue raised above, when talking about 501(c)(7)'s the term "social club" is often used.  501(c)(7)'s must file annual financial reports with the Internal Revenue Service (Form 990) and make those reports available to the members of the organization and general public.  A private business company puts these reports on its website, although with a year or two delay.  https://candid.org/research-and-verify-nonprofits/990-finder  Disclosure is part of the price paid for tax-exempt status.

There are other models.  For example, I'm confident that Augusta National Golf Club and Quail Hollow Country Club (d/b/a Quail Hollow Club) are organized as private business corporations rather than nonprofits, and do not have to disclose their financials.  I would expect that actual member involvement in such "clubs" is limited, but not being a member of either I do not know for certain.

[Jim_Coleman]

   I believe the “best” golf clubs are not run by the membership, but rather by a very small group or even one. Pine Valley, Augusta, Seminole, Cypress come to mind.

[Tommy Williamsen]

If you have ever been a member of both, the difference between Country Club and Golf Club is clear.

[Carl Johnson]

   I believe the “best” golf clubs are not run by the membership, but rather by a very small group or even one. Pine Valley, Augusta, Seminole, Cypress come to mind.

Of course, this begs the questions of "what is a club?"  And of what do you want in a club?  And what makes these "clubs" the best.  All of which are the subject of this thread.

[Matt Schoolfield]

There are generally three ways to answer this:

The platonic way is to try to delve in to what the essence of golfness and clubness are and try to hash out what that is.

The deductive way is basically to look at what legally constitutes a club organized by golf, and just point to that.

The analytic way is to just point at a bunch of golf clubs and say it's something like those things.

You get different philosophers in a room that disagree on which system to use, and they'll argue with each other for a few hundred years about it.

[Chris Hughes]

Allocation of "resources"...??


Any particular rules of thumb?

[Jim_Coleman]

   It seems to me there are 2 kinds of clubs that offer golf - golf clubs and country clubs. Country clubs offer multiple activities - golf, tennis, swimming primarily. Golf clubs offer golf only. Maybe there’s a pickleball or racket ball court for winter play. But as a practical matter, golf is it.

[Ben Malach]

Wtf are we talking about here golf clubs or tiers of private estate clubs.


Why does the golf club need to own the course? The R&A don’t own the links of St. Andrews and I don’t think anyone would argue that they aren’t a golf club.


If this is a thread about American clubs it’s pure wankery

[Chris Hughes]

If a claim of "we are a golf club" is made...


...what are you looking for to confirm or deny said claim?

A lot like pornography, you will know it when you see it. 


You can certainly see when one was but isn't anymore IMO.

Any specific "amenities/offerings" that signal "isn't anymore"...??

[Kevin_Reilly]

Am currently a member of two clubs, both that I enjoy.


Club #1 has golf, tennis/PB, swimming pool, workout facilities.


Club #2 has golf.


This isn't a difficult distinction to make.

[Kalen Braley]

Wtf are we talking about here golf clubs or tiers of private estate clubs.


Why does the golf club need to own the course? The R&A don’t own the links of St. Andrews and I don’t think anyone would argue that they aren’t a golf club.


If this is a thread about American clubs it’s pure wankery

Couldn't agree more Ben, this thread is amusing, especially when courses like ANGC are being suggested as "clubs" (even if that's how it may have originated)

P.S.  Safe to say there is no shortage of American wankery these days...

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