Ardsley CC - Mackenzie? Robert White?

[Sven Nilsen]

Mackenzie is given credit for remodeling Ardsley in the late 1920's, although I've never seen anything affirmatively linking him to the course.


In 1927 Robert White was identified as the architect that would work on remodeling the course and utilizing the 40 additional acres the club had recently purchased.


Anyone know if White's work actually took place?


May 17, 1927 Yonkers Herald -

[MCirba]

Interesting, Sven.


The Mackenzie holes at Ardsley certainly look in the Mackenzie style, but it's difficult to know if that's what he built or someone "restoring" thought it should look like.   If I get time this week possibly old aerials may shed some light.

[MCirba]

Sven,


The oldest aerial I've been able to find is 1953 but there is nothing distinctive to be seen from above and frankly they look more Mackenzian today than they did at that time.  It also appears two of the holes on the "new land" were converted into one longer one over the years.

[Tim Martin]

Sven,


The oldest aerial I've been able to find is 1953 but there is nothing distinctive to be seen from above and frankly they look more Mackenzian today than they did at that time.  It also appears two of the holes on the "new land" were converted into one longer one over the years.

Mike-Who is responsible for the current first hole?  

[MCirba]

Mike-Who is responsible for the current first hole?

Tim,


(In my best Church Lady voice) "Hmmm...let me see.  Could it be...Satan!?!"

[Tim Martin]

Mike-Who is responsible for the current first hole?

Tim,


(In my best Church Lady voice) "Hmmm...let me see.  Could it be...Satan!?!"

[Bret Lawrence]

Sven,


Considering the timing of Ross’ visit in 1916, is it possible Robert White was constructing the course to Ross’ plans? Ardsley sounds like one of the 10-12 courses Robert White consulted with in the Metro area.  The other courses I know of were Brooklawn, Wykagyl, North Shore and St. Andrew’s. Here is the Ross story from 1916.  Some of the wording sounds similar. Did they ever build these plans in the Spring of 1917?





Bret

[Bret Lawrence]

A 1926 aerial photograph of Ardsley showing the northeast section of the property in the bottom right of the frame.  The course is on the fringe of three photographs in 1926, but this shot best shows the wooded land before the five new golf holes were planned to be constructed one year later.



Westchester County Department of Planning Historic Photos Viewer., 1926.


1940 Aerial Photograph of Ardsley showing the 5 new golf holes constructed to the east. The old 5 holes can be seen to the west, stretching to the Hudson River:

Westchester County Department of Planning Historic Photos Viewer., 1940.


1947 Aerial showing Ardsley with the old holes to the west starting to fade away:

Westchester County Department of Planning Historic Photos Viewer., 1947.

1940 Close-Up of the five new holes at Ardsley:

[/size]Westchester County Department of Planning Historic Photos Viewer., 1940.

[MCirba]

Tim Martin,


I'm thinking the 1st hole may have been a product of Willie Tucker's expansion in the teens but I may be wrong.


A fellow by the name of Chris Shaida used to post here and I believe he knows the history of the property.  I'm hopeful he'll see this and weigh in.

[Tim Martin]

Tim Martin,


I'm thinking the 1st hole may have been a product of Willie Tucker's expansion in the teens but I may be wrong.


A fellow by the name of Chris Shaida used to post here and I believe he knows the history of the property.  I'm hopeful he'll see this and weigh in.

Mike-I got a text from Chris Shaida who has a great deal of digital material including articles, aerials, photos etc. that he is happy to share. I can put you or Sven in touch with him if you guys are interested. Chris is a terrific guy and a former greens chairman at Ardsley. He hasn’t posted in a long time on GCA and advised that his sign on no longer works.

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,


Considering the timing of Ross’ visit in 1916, is it possible Robert White was constructing the course to Ross’ plans?

Bret:


Seeing as White's work was supposed to utilize land the club didn't own in 1916, I don't think he was working with Ross plans.


In 1919 it was reported that extensive changes to the course had been completed a year ago.


Sven

[Sven Nilsen]

Mike-I got a text from Chris Shaida who has a great deal of digital material including articles, aerials, photos etc. that he is happy to share. I can put you or Sven in touch with him if you guys are interested. Chris is a terrific guy and a former greens chairman at Ardsley. He hasn’t posted in a long time on GCA and advised that his sign on no longer works.

Tim:


I'd be greatly interested in seeing what Chris has to share.


Sven

[MCirba]

Tim,


Ditto.   Thanks!

[Bret Lawrence]

In Robert White’s obituary/tribute in Golfdom, the writer mentions that Robert White was in charge of Wykagyl and 11 other courses in Westchester County.





We have to remember we have found articles in the past where Robert White was noted as the architect, but he didn’t actually design the golf course.  North Shore and Shorehaven would be two recent examples (both in the New York Metro area).  The article Sven posted clearly makes it sound like Robert White was already serving an advisory role at Ardsley and him doing the new work would have been a simple decision, but did he actually design anything or just construct from another architects plans?


A photo of Robert White from an advertisement:



I believe Montclair Golf Club and Greenwich Country Club were two other courses White consulted with in the 1920’s in addition to the clubs I mentioned above.


I’d like to see what Chris has as well.  I’d also love to see the confirmation of Ross’ changes in 1919.  Which holes were his 5 new holes?  Why would he have to completely rearrange the golf course, if he wasn’t using new land to add his 5 new holes?  Do we know the exact date of when they purchased the new land, and even if they didn’t own the land couldn’t they have had Ross take a look anyway to determine whether or not they should buy it?  Just some questions I would have, considering I know next to nothing about Ardsley.

[Chris Shaida]

The basic story of Ardsley goes like this:

• It was conceived of as a social club (was called 'The millionaires club') for the robber barons in 1895.  The Ardsley Casino club.  NY Yacht Club dock on the Hudson, Elizabethan clubhouse with indoor swimming pool.  Private train station.  Golf was not part of the plan and the club owned just the property for the clubhouse, train station and dock.
• Around the same time, Vanderbilt evidently went to France, played this thing called golf, though it was delightful.
• Vanderbilt came back to NY, stole Willie Dunn from Shinnecock and had him come to Ardsley and lay out 9 holes on his Vanderbilt's adjoining property.
• There were some crazy holes, including a green surrounded by jagged boulders called, if memory serves, the devil's teeth hole!
• Golf was so successful that summer that Dunn was asked to add another 9 holes.  Also on adjoining but not club-owned property.
• Enthusiasm for golf continued and Ardsley was one of the founding members of the USGA.
• From that point on the course changes were driven by pieces of the borrowed land being taken back and new parcels found to replace them.  Willie Tucker replaced Dunn as the pro and made a steady stream of changes btw 1900 and 1915
• By this point the more than half the holes had elevation changes of more than 75 feet which lead to
• Ross being commissioned in 1915 to re-route the course around - rather than up and over the natural hills.  Which he did.  It is very likely that Robert White actually carried out the Ross plans.
• (in the early 20s Bobbie Jones played a number of times at Ardsley, including an exhibition with, I think?, Jess Sweetzer, in which they played alternate shot and made it around the course in an hour or so!)
• then in the mid 20s another parcel of land on which there were holes near the Hudson was taken back and a replacement parcel was purchase further up the 'mountain'
• This is when Mackenzie was reputedly hired to design the new holes and make some change to the existing holes (no contract or similar contemporaneous documentation has been unearthed (as yet) but there is a fair amount of anecdotal data that supports the notion that it was Mackenzie
• Then the depression happened and the club nearly went bankrupt.  It was quietly funded throughout much of the 30s by a local member.  The original clubhouse burned down and was taken by the bank and redeveloped as an apartment building by the now public train station and exists to this day.
• The club moved into what had been the stables and that was the clubhouse from the 30s to the 60s.
• Then it bought a mansion on the top of the 'mountain' (the current clubhouse site) and the routing was changed to turn what had been the par 5 15th into the exceedingly odd current par 4 1st.
• A number of architects made changes in the 70s-90s, including Ken Dye who did a somewhat ill-fated bunker redo in the late 90s

There is an extensive archive of digital materials - articles, photos, aerials, google earth routings, notes, etc. that anyone who's interested can have access to.  Maybe Sven and Mike can refresh and add to it over time?

[Bret Lawrence]

Chris,


Thank you for your summary.


Some of the Ardsley members were also investors in Lido and we all know what happened to Lido when the war effort needed to be funded.  I think this is what gives me the greatest caution to believe that the Ross plans were completed during the same years.  Perhaps they made changes to existing holes, but five new holes on new land doesn’t appear to be evident in the 1926 aerial.


Bret

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