Pin position "rules"

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Your point about course ratings is a good one that I had not considered. More generally, I find that the ratings system is flawed because length is too dominant a factor.

🤦🏼‍♂️

[Carl Johnson]

From Reply 23:  "Your point about course ratings is a good one that I had not considered. More generally, I find that the ratings system is flawed because length is too dominant a factor."

This statement prompts me to start a new discussion thread, rather than hijack this one, which I started myself.  See below.

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,73688.0.html

[Matt_Cohn]

There is almost inevitably a playoff and everyone very much wants that playoff determined by EOD on the second day of Stroke Play.

I wish it had been that night. Those playoffs almost always occur the next morning. Couldn’t even enjoy a drink with dinner, then made two bogeys. 😡


Anyway, 3 from the edge is not at all unusual in tournaments now. I’ve played 2 from the edge two times, both totally fair.


Before they rebuilt the eighth green at Spyglass a couple years ago, I had jokingly commented that they could’ve put a pin 10 on and 1 foot from the right edge. It would’ve been the easiest location on the green because that’s where the balls all ended up anyway!


One other interesting note is that at courses that use computer generated hole locations, players consistently report seeing more challenging hole locations. Previously, the superintendents were worried about making a mistake and making people mad, so they’d err on the side of caution. But the computer knows when a tough whole location is totally fine to use.

[Charlie Goerges]

It's been interesting reading through the posts. When I was a teen (cart attendant), the pro gave me the job setting the holes for the summer, I'd generally start on 1 sometime after the last group left the 10th tee. At the time, I had no idea there were no rules for it, the pro gave me his rules for me to follow.


As best as I can remember:

• Always at least 4 paces from the edge, but generally more.
• The hole couldn't be placed on a slope that fell X* number of inches within 4 paces
• Don't place the hole within 6 feet of a slope that drops Y* number of inches within 4 paces
• A mixture of easy/medium/difficult locations

*I can't remember what X and Y were.


The only one I ever broke was the last one with mostly medium and difficult for a tournament once.


I measured the drop a couple times with the ruler, but then I realized that the architect had generally designed all the usable areas with tiers between them so you could just cut a hole anywhere but on the steeper sections between tiers (if there were tiers).

[Lou_Duran]

One other interesting note is that at courses that use computer generated hole locations, players consistently report seeing more challenging hole locations. Previously, the superintendents were worried about making a mistake and making people mad, so they’d err on the side of caution. But the computer knows when a tough whole location is totally fine to use.

My experience re: the last sentence is not supportive, but I will make some inquiries this week on how detailed/exact the computer defines the hole location for a given day.  I was given the impression that the maintenance workers who cut cups are provided with a hole location sheet which has a diagram of each hole, hole depth, paces from center, and paces right or left.  I doubt that a human hand adapts these hole locations prior to the cups being cut, though the worker I talked to did say that he will "push" the spot when the prescribed location is too severe.  Being that the holes are typically cut in the dark or in poor light, as many as half on our course could not pass the slope guidelines.

[Thomas Dai]

Computer generated hole locations!
I'd like to think this is satire but alas I fear not.
Oh how a simple ball, stick, hole leisure pursuit has evolved.
atb

[JohnVDB]

In the USGA’s How to Conduct a Competition guide, page 48, they detail a dozen or so guidelines for proper pin position selection.

How to Conduct a Competition is a very out of date book.  The Committee Procedures section of the Official Guide to the Rules of Golf now covers this, although it is very similar there are probably some differences. It is in the section of the Committee's duties before a competition - https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#section=committeeProcedures&itemNum=5
Here is what it says regarding Hole Location selection:

The locations of the holes on the putting greens can have a considerable effect on scoring and pace of play during competitions. Many factors go into the selection of hole locations, with emphasis on the following points:
 

• In selecting the locations, the ability of the players should be considered so that the locations selected are not so difficult as to slow down play significantly or so easy as not to challenge better players.
• The speed of the greens is a significant factor in choosing the location of the hole. While a hole location may work well for a slower green, it may prove to be too severe when the speed of the greens is increased.
• The Committee should avoid placing a hole on a slope where the ball will not come to rest. When the contours of the green allow, holes should be placed where there is an area of two to three feet around the hole that is relatively level so that putts struck at the proper speed will stop around the hole.

Some additional considerations include:

• Setting holes where there is enough putting green surface between the hole and the front and sides of the putting green to accommodate the approach on that particular hole. For example, placing the hole immediately behind a bunker when a long approach is required by the majority of the field is usually not recommended.
• Balancing hole locations for the entire course with respect to left, right, centre, front and back locations.

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