Why are the UK par fives so short?

[Michael Moore]

I seem to remember a great deal of 470 and 480 and very few 535 etc. As usual I could be wrong.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

A lot of UK courses are quite old (maybe the majority at this stage are over 100 years old), so a par five of 500 yards built pre-WW2 would have been classed as quite long. I know there were exceptions, and some were well over 500 yards. I think you will find that many courses build since the 1960s do have the odd par five around the 530-550 yards length. Also, many courses have been surrounded by developments and the expansion of towns and villages, so there is little room available to stretch them in line with equipment/ball advances.

[Thomas Dai]

Age of the course and the type of equipment used way back in time likely has a lot to do with it.
atb

[Joe Hancock]

Wind?

[Richard Fisher]

NB the importance in the UK of the transition from the widespread use of ‘bogey’ to ‘par’. Prior to the CONGU standardisation of the 1960s, when par 5s were decreed to be more than 475 yards long, large numbers of UK courses had inherited lots of ‘bogey 5’ holes of between 400 and 500 yards in length. NB that off the ordinary tees the Old Course three-shot holes were about 515 yards or so, and holes like the 17th at RND (551 yards) or the 4th and 6th at Troon (well over 550 yards) were very much the exception, even amongst the championship courses. Donal’s point about space is critical. And a testing par 4 and a half hole of 440 yards, of which (say) Rye and Harlech and Aldeburgh have plenty, is much more challenging to play than a dull 535 yard par 5…

[Niall C]

As David and Donal mention, the ages of the courses is one reason but also that often there hasn't the scope (ie. lack of land), money or interest to lengthen the par 5's to maintain the four par 5's, par 72 "standard". While you could argue that has lead to a dearth of "true" par 5's it has also meant there is now a lot of half par holes which by and large make the golf more interesting.


Niall

[Niall C]

Richard got there before me.


Niall

[Simon Barrington]

NB the importance in the UK of the transition from the widespread use of ‘bogey’ to ‘par’. Prior to the CONGU standardisation of the 1960s, when par 5s were decreed to be more than 475 yards long, large numbers of UK courses had inherited lots of ‘bogey 5’ holes of between 400 and 500 yards in length. NB that off the ordinary tees the Old Course three-shot holes were about 515 yards or so, and holes like the 17th at RND (551 yards) or the 4th and 6th at Troon (well over 550 yards) were very much the exception, even amongst the championship courses. Donal’s point about space is critical. And a testing par 4 and a half hole of 440 yards, of which (say) Rye and Harlech and Aldeburgh have plenty, is much more challenging to play than a dull 535 yard par 5…

Then followed the CONGU 1985 SSS Scheme which caused clubs to chase length, while attempting to get the SSS Score as high as possible versus Par.

That encouraged the advent of lengthening of many Medium/Long Par 4's into a narrow yardage differential of c. 440-470, and some c. 476-490 Par 5's were shortened to become more challenging "Par 4's".

It is fascinating how the handicapping schemes (of various types globally) have influenced changes to holes, strategy and architecture...unintended consequences and all that.

The overarching factors though are lack of land, and longevity as mentioned by others.

When land was available architects did design longer Bogey 5's (or even 6's).
e.g. James Braid designed the then 15th (current 12th) at Henley GC to be 575 yards in 1907, and I recall Willie Fernie was cited as producing holes of over 600 yards at Southerndown Ladies!

[Tommy Williamsen]

And a testing par 4 and a half hole of 440 yards, of which (say) Rye and Harlech and Aldeburgh have plenty, is much more challenging to play than a dull 535 yard par 5…

I never thought that the long par fours at Harlech were interesting. I thought they were just a long slog, especially those on the front nine. Rye, however, is a different story.

[Tom_Doak]

Wind?

I think wind is also a factor.  A 550-yard hole into the wind is forbidding, so you’ll generally only find them on a course with “championship “ tees.

[Richard Fisher]

Tommy we can agree to disagree! The 3rd at Harlech is a terrific, subtle half-par hole, with some very clever fairway bunkering, and coming home also excellent are 10, 12, 13, 15 and 17 all of which were once ‘bogey fives’. Agree about Rye, obvs, ditto Aldeburgh. And the point about wind, esp at the seaside, is very well taken. One of the many wonderful things about your beloved RND is the par five 13th at 442 yards…

[Mark Pearce]

In the Spring Meeting on Crail Craighead yesterday, we played the par 4 fourth off the very back tees.  At 480 yards into the wind, it remained a par 4 for the very best players in the field and a test of survival for the rest.  For most club golfers, 480 yards is three good shots.

[MCirba]

When I was growing up in the 1970s any hole longer than 474 yards was considered a par five.  At that time the 13th at ANGC was all of 475 yards, and 15 was 500, if memory serves.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

When I was growing up in the 1970s any hole longer than 474 yards was considered a par five.  At that time the 13th at ANGC was all of 475 yards, and 15 was 500, if memory serves.

Mike,


I remember the 13th at Augusta was 465-yards in the 1980s, although it was longer as you wrote in the 1970s. The fluctuations in the length may have been due to how they measured the hole.


1934 - 480 yds
1955 - 470 yds
1976 - 485 yds
1984 - 465 yds
1987 - 465 yds
2011 - 510 yds
2023 - 545 yds


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/complete-changes-to-augusta-national

[Paul Jones]

When I was growing up in the 1970s any hole longer than 474 yards was considered a par five.  At that time the 13th at ANGC was all of 475 yards, and 15 was 500, if memory serves.

Mike,


I remember the 13th at Augusta was 465-yards in the 1980s, although it was longer as you wrote in the 1970s. The fluctuations in the length may have been due to how they measured the hole.


1934 - 480 yds
1955 - 470 yds
1976 - 485 yds
1984 - 465 yds
1987 - 465 yds
2011 - 510 yds
2023 - 545 yds


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/complete-changes-to-augusta-national

Is there a standard to measuring a hole?  Is it from the middle of the tee box to the middle of the green?

[Ally Mcintosh]

When I was growing up in the 1970s any hole longer than 474 yards was considered a par five.  At that time the 13th at ANGC was all of 475 yards, and 15 was 500, if memory serves.

Mike,


I remember the 13th at Augusta was 465-yards in the 1980s, although it was longer as you wrote in the 1970s. The fluctuations in the length may have been due to how they measured the hole.


1934 - 480 yds
1955 - 470 yds
1976 - 485 yds
1984 - 465 yds
1987 - 465 yds
2011 - 510 yds
2023 - 545 yds


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/complete-changes-to-augusta-national

Is there a standard to measuring a hole?  Is it from the middle of the tee box to the middle of the green?

Yes and no.


The hole is measured to the middle of the green. It is measured from the plate of the tee box which has to be at least 2 yards forward from the back of the physical tee box. That bit is straightforward…


…Where it becomes difficult is how it is measured through the fairway. Architects will use a consistent turning point for their centreline (say 250m for tee-shot, a further 200m for 2nd shot on a par-5). We will measure a hole that way although the turning point distance from architect to architect may vary. Additionally, those who measure the course might use a much more practical turning point if it follows what looks like the centre of the fairway more closely, one that varies from hole to hole on the same course.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Augusta National do their measurements a bit differently.

A Comprehensive History Of Every Change Made To Augusta National Golf Club | Golf News and Tour Information | Golf Digest

See Hole 3, note for 2011:

A note about yardages at Augusta National: The club measures from the middle of the back tee to the farthest useable hole location, rounding the number to the nearest five yards. Thus, yardages often fluctuate without relocation of tees.

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